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Badoosh

EE Homeboy

Joined: 2015-02-16

Posts: 290

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Campaigns Are For Everyone

Campaigns aren't for everyone. It's already been said multiple times already that campaigns are bad, but bear with me.
ugh another rant by badoosh?

▼Number of Campaigns Based On Difficulty

*Basic Worlds: 7
Basic-Easy Worlds: 0 (!)
Easy Worlds: 0 (!)
Easy-Medium Worlds: 4
**Medium Worlds: 7-11
**Medium-Hard Worlds: 5-9
Hard Worlds: 7
Hard-Extreme Worlds: 2
Extreme Worlds: 4

*(and all but 2 basic levels were made with the staff. 1 of the 2 was actually a submission for the loading screen contest)
**(Puzzle Pack 1 has 4 medium campaigns, despite the campaign being labeled medium-hard. No way to know for sure since they're clearly labeled wrong) 

How this affects the player:
The difficulty curve is terrible. You have a jump from Basic to Easy-Medium! There aren't even that many easy levels to practice with. Sudden jumps in difficulty give players a tough time, and aren't fun at all.

▼Types of Campaigns

*Minigames:29
**Puzzle: 3
***Parkour: 10
Coin Hunt: 1
****Other Concepts: 0

Alternate Starts: 1
Non-Linear: 2

*Yes, there are different types of minigames, with styles ranging from the smooth style of Presto Penguins to Trolled Minigames. We'll keep that in mind, but I'm not going to make a bunch of sub categories.
**I don't count Water Levels as a puzzle level. Also, Memory Game is both puzzle and minigame (because of the minigame endings).
***I counted The Tunnels and Katwalk Katalk as both a parkour and minigame levels.
****It's expected that there are far more minigame levels than concepts. EE started out simple, and there was a paywall to infinite items until recently (and these levels are generally more difficult to make).

How this affects the player:
Minigames in the easier levels are almost nonexistent. Hey, new player, remember all those skills you built up in the easy levels? You won't need most of them in the harder campaigns.
You also have a clearly dominant level type in campaigns. Being forced to play the same genre over and over again gets bland fast. (Of course, as previously stated, there is plenty of variety within the minigame genre, too.)
The harder campaigns also throw challenges at the player they could never prepare for in the earlier campaigns. This includes different types of minigames that require new skills, and even glitches with boosts and one-ways!
Once again, all of these problems give players a tough time, and aren't fun at all.

▼Who's to Blame?

Campaigns aren't for everyone - and it's everyone's fault.
omg badoosh but that also means that you're to blame! yes it does.

It's the admins' fault. They decide what deserves to be a campaign in the end. They could have held off on placing lots of medium and hard campaigns and encouraged players to build easy levels for a chance for a spot in a new campaign.

It's the communitys' faults. Everyone praises easy levels. But the vast majority refuse to make any. The admins cannot possibly pick easy levels when there are few to be found, let alone make a theme out of them. The real pity is, easy levels are the easiest to make, too.

With this knowledge, we can make campaigns for everyone. Challenge yourself to make new levels that maybe you wouldn't normally play, but appeal to a wider audience. If you are lazy and give up on your level ideas, try building a small world in an hour or so instead. Help new players build levels or something. Host a level building contest. The sky's the limit.

TaskManager

Formerly maxi123

From: i really should update this

Joined: 2015-03-01

Posts: 9,466

Re: Campaigns Are For Everyone

i agree
id like to add about campaigns:
campaigns do nearly nothing to keep new players in game
sure, the tutorials introduce them into the game very well but then there is just 1 campaign completely doable for a new player, thats all. doing medium+ campaigns requires at least some key mashing skills and as badoosh pointed out newbs dont have anything to obtain these skills + playing certain levels takes over a hour to complete which is rather tiresome than fun

there is 2 types of players: veterans and newcomers
right now it is obvious that 70% of campaigns were made for veterans

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Gamemonger

Banned

From: #FREESONIIIETY

Joined: 2015-12-24

Posts: 206

Re: Campaigns Are For Everyone

I agree, only the Tutorials and the first level and maybe second or third level of Adventure League are noob friendly, we need some more easy campaigns to let them get the hang of it.

i agree
id like to add about campaigns:
campaigns do nearly nothing to keep new players in game
sure, the tutorials introduce them into the game very well but then there is just 1 campaign completely doable for a new player, thats all. doing medium+ campaigns requires at least some key mashing skills and as badoosh pointed out newbs dont have anything to obtain these skills + playing certain levels takes over a hour to complete which is rather tiresome than fun

there is 2 types of players: veterans and newcomers
right now it is obvious that 70% of campaigns were made for veterans

Sort of off topic but I joined EE about 2 months ago and the medium+ campaigns were a breeze for me, I had a friend help me at first but I started to get the hang of it. Though the big catch is I had a friend with me and didn't do it solo.

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Anak

Guest

Re: Campaigns Are For Everyone

A lot of the more difficult levels I can't even get past the first level, and they're all just the same kind of arrowspammed minigames. Idk why but those types of levels seem the most popular, so understandably there's a lot of thsoe types of levels in campaigns, but the proportion is still off. I know someone would tell me git gud or whatever, but you'd think after 5, 6 years of EE, there'd be a lot more to offer than that. I'm great at other types of levels and aspects of the game which aren't as represented, unfortunately.

TaskManager

Formerly maxi123

From: i really should update this

Joined: 2015-03-01

Posts: 9,466

Re: Campaigns Are For Everyone

I agree, only the Tutorials and the first level and maybe second or third level of Adventure League are noob friendly, we need some more easy campaigns to let them get the hang of it.

i agree
id like to add about campaigns:
campaigns do nearly nothing to keep new players in game
sure, the tutorials introduce them into the game very well but then there is just 1 campaign completely doable for a new player, thats all. doing medium+ campaigns requires at least some key mashing skills and as badoosh pointed out newbs dont have anything to obtain these skills + playing certain levels takes over a hour to complete which is rather tiresome than fun

there is 2 types of players: veterans and newcomers
right now it is obvious that 70% of campaigns were made for veterans

Sort of off topic but I joined EE about 2 months ago and the medium+ campaigns were a breeze for me, I had a friend help me at first but I started to get the hang of it. Though the big catch is I had a friend with me and didn't do it solo.

maybe saying medium+ instead of hard+ was overexxagerating but medium+ is still hard for average 12 year olds

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Sensei1

Member

From: The land of saunas

Joined: 2015-02-16

Posts: 1,112

Re: Campaigns Are For Everyone

Didn't they say that from now on campaigns will mainly be picked from the campaign suggestions? I might be wrong here, but in addition to the fact that we should make more easy worlds I think we should make more campaign suggestions.

The admins have their own tastes in worlds and they can't possibly know what worlds all the other players would like campaigns to have if we don't tell them. So,

Make more suggestions people!

Also, easy worlds are fun to make! I'll definitely make some more in the future

Anak

Guest

Re: Campaigns Are For Everyone

Didn't they say that from now on campaigns will mainly be picked from the campaign suggestions? I might be wrong here, but in addition to the fact that we should make more easy worlds I think we should make more campaign suggestions.

They said they had ran out of prepicked campaigns and will start choosing from the suggestions if memory serves

Lictor666

Guest

Re: Campaigns Are For Everyone

It's hard to make a good easy level...

TaskManager

Formerly maxi123

From: i really should update this

Joined: 2015-03-01

Posts: 9,466

Re: Campaigns Are For Everyone

It's hard to make a good easy level...

depends on what level you consider good

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zioxei

Member

Joined: 2015-06-20

Posts: 847

Re: Campaigns Are For Everyone

Many people I see have only Tutorial and Ruins badges...

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Zoey2070

Moderation Team

From: Shakuras

Joined: 2015-02-15

Posts: 5,511

Re: Campaigns Are For Everyone

There's no real guideline on the difficulties of campaigns. To me, at least, any form of speed control is at LEAST medium-hard. I struggle with medium worlds. Parts of Cave Exploration are actually pretty hard. To me. The person who spent like eight hours on Water Levels, with the assistance of six different people.

The thing about campaigns as they are now is that they follow a pattern that nlmdjango likes to refer to as "arrow hell". they're meant to be playable and honestly it's kinda boring -- the "best" ee levels are always the same kind. jumping, smashing arrows, nothing too interesting. like, man, i get that, it's the iconic ee experience as dictated by ex crew back in 2010 in a dark ee world of 200 levels of 200 minigames, but why can't we have interesting campaign levels? like, a coherent theme that isn't just "ah, yes, these levels are colorful." "these levels will take u hours to play" like man why can't we have something INNOVATIVE or, hell, gimmicky? so what if there's not any super amazing minis in pokemon red? it's still a pretty nice level. you don't need minis for something to be campaign-worthy, imo. ee's a sandbox game yet all the campaign levels are the same old stuff. part of my graphs was to point out a lack of diversity... authorship-wise i guess. it's the same people making the same types of levels over and over again. maybe it's just me, but my idea of having fun when playing EE isn't forcing myself to play a level, needing help from several people, getting frustrated enough to claw at myself and tear up the keys from my keyboard, shouting expletives because i've been on this same mini for an hour and a half. (also, that mini is pure 100% satan) it shouldn't be training for the friggin olympics. ee's a game. i want to have fun. not hate myself, the level creator, or anyone in the same level.

idk man, best i can say is that the best way to change things is to actually MAKE suggestions, MAKE levels. encourage others.

you can make easy levels without them being clones of 200 minigames. i'm pretty sure u could have story-based levels -- there's no real playability in them, but they're still p good -- that are considered easy or basic i guess
man i dunno

it just seems to me that campaigns are, as much as i hate to say it, a massive staff member & staff member accessories associates circlejerk. campaigns are a good idea in concept but so far hasn't been too good in practice.

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Insanity

Member

From: Douchebag Island

Joined: 2015-03-07

Posts: 1,123

Re: Campaigns Are For Everyone

if you find any of the campaigns more than extremely easy, get gud u filthy casuals

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Falk

Member

From: Index

Joined: 2015-04-28

Posts: 284

Re: Campaigns Are For Everyone

Because the staff never really says a thing about suggestions, graphic and game alike, people that have a good idea only get 3 woots and 2 people sweating to find something bad about an idea.
Campaign suggestions is no exception. They said that will stop but still.

Maybe someone has a bad idea, maybe that idea is so bad that you don't even want to continue reading the replies.
Would it hurt to say a "No, this is bad because X." so that the topic creator stops insisting?
I am talking about the admins, because their opinion is the one that matters.

They like your idea, it will get added. You will never know.
They don't like your idea, it won't get added. You will never know.

How about them being more responsible for more than just the Bug Reports? Even there a reply comes once in a millennium.

Pyromaniac

Official Caroler

Joined: 2015-02-15

Posts: 4,868

Re: Campaigns Are For Everyone

The thing about campaigns as they are now is that they follow a pattern that nlmdjango likes to refer to as "arrow hell". they're meant to be playable and honestly it's kinda boring -- the "best" ee levels are always the same kind. jumping, smashing arrows, nothing too interesting. like, man, i get that, it's the iconic ee experience as dictated by ex crew back in 2010 in a dark ee world of 200 levels of 200 minigames, but why can't we have interesting campaign levels? like, a coherent theme that isn't just "ah, yes, these levels are colorful." "these levels will take u hours to play" like man why can't we have something INNOVATIVE or, hell, gimmicky? so what if there's not any super amazing minis in pokemon red? it's still a pretty nice level. you don't need minis for something to be campaign-worthy, imo. ee's a sandbox game yet all the campaign levels are the same old stuff. part of my graphs was to point out a lack of diversity... authorship-wise i guess. it's the same people making the same types of levels over and over again. maybe it's just me, but my idea of having fun when playing EE isn't forcing myself to play a level, needing help from several people, getting frustrated enough to claw at myself and tear up the keys from my keyboard, shouting expletives because i've been on this same mini for an hour and a half. (also, that mini is pure 100% satan) it shouldn't be training for the friggin olympics. ee's a game. i want to have fun. not hate myself, the level creator, or anyone in the same level.

holy **** PREACH

I would MUCH rather play a level with a story, or one that explores a new concept as opposed to a standard "lets sit here forever and bang fingers on a keyboard"

Gamemonger

Banned

From: #FREESONIIIETY

Joined: 2015-12-24

Posts: 206

Re: Campaigns Are For Everyone

Campaigns need a big overhaul, their current state is bad and they aren't fun, just annoying and unforgiving.

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Napakeun

Formerly goodsmile

From: Slo

Joined: 2015-02-22

Posts: 619

Re: Campaigns Are For Everyone

I don't like how staff doesn't communicate much with other peoples campaign suggestions, and suggestions in general.

When staff decides to make a new campaign, they should say what what worlds are going to be in it. I get it they try to make a nice surprise for us, but I think that maybe campaigns should be planned with staff and community together?

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sthegreat

Member

Joined: 2015-04-25

Posts: 409

Re: Campaigns Are For Everyone

While I partially agree with you guys, the campaigns are not all that bad (except looks can decieve). In fact, tunnel rats is very fun for me, and contains my favorite map ever, crypts of anubis. The difficult ones are also good because they push me to complete harder levels, before campaigns I would never complete a fractured fingers world. The only problem with them is the severe difficulty spike and lack of very easy campaigns, which definitely does need to be addressed.

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Onjit

Member

Joined: 2015-02-15

Posts: 9,710

Website

Re: Campaigns Are For Everyone

This is the reason I make easy levels

(It's not because I'm a noob or anything)

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Aoitenshi

Member

Joined: 2015-02-18

Posts: 2,058

Re: Campaigns Are For Everyone

It's hard to make a good easy level...

So is making a good hard level.

TaskManager

Formerly maxi123

From: i really should update this

Joined: 2015-03-01

Posts: 9,466

Re: Campaigns Are For Everyone

http://everybodyedits.com/games/PWcQz1xo7Nb0I
T.E.T.R.I.S. - to me this is an example of easy and good level

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zioxei

Member

Joined: 2015-06-20

Posts: 847

Re: Campaigns Are For Everyone

http://everybodyedits.com/games/PWcQz1xo7Nb0I
T.E.T.R.I.S. - to me this is an example of easy and good level

Some things could be changed because they're more like medium.

And I think you posted in the wrong thread.

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N1KF

Wiki Mod

From: ဪဪဪဪဪ From: ဪဪဪဪဪ From: ဪဪဪဪဪ

Joined: 2015-02-15

Posts: 11,180

Website

Re: Campaigns Are For Everyone

It's hard to make a good easy level...

So is making a good hard level.

This explains why so many hard levels are a collection of tedious arrow paths minigames.

TaskManager

Formerly maxi123

From: i really should update this

Joined: 2015-03-01

Posts: 9,466

Re: Campaigns Are For Everyone

http://everybodyedits.com/games/PWcQz1xo7Nb0I
T.E.T.R.I.S. - to me this is an example of easy and good level

Some things could be changed because they're more like medium.

And I think you posted in the wrong thread.

well it was just a single level, not worthy of making a thread
and while we're at it about easy levels i decided to show that as an example

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Xfrogman43

Member

From: need to find a new home

Joined: 2015-02-15

Posts: 4,174

Re: Campaigns Are For Everyone

It's hard to make a good easy level...

So is making a good hard level.

This explains why so many hard levels are a collection of tedious arrow paths minigames.

Most likely. They are usually different arrow paths but still arrow paths.

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