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Terrasher

Member

From: Inside The Wall

Joined: 2015-02-15

Posts: 369

Website

Re: Sexuality

Homosexual - Idc
Bisexual - Idc
Transexual - I'm against the procedure to change ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) because it's as unnatural as you can get. If they haven't had surgery or anything, idc.
The rest - Idc, as long as there ain't weird cutting and sewing.

why do you care about the surgeries?

I find them to be insanely unnatural. Sure, it may make the person having the surgery happier, but I'll still feel distant / uneasy due to the fact that there had to be some sort of elaborate and extremely unnatural intervention to achieve the person's goal. Homosexuals and bisexuals don't need surgeons to change their bodies and be "how they are supposed to be". I am also against the whole thing where transexuals inject themselves with testosterone or estrogen, for the same reason I feel uneasy towards the surgery.

how is it unnatural? what do you consider to be unnatural? (1)

and why does something being considering what you consider to be unnatural mean that it is wrong? (2)

edit: why do you care about it? it isnt affecting you as far as i know (3)

you say that it may make the person happier, but that you feel uneasy about it because it is elaborate and "unnatural." (4)
you say that you feel uneasy about transsexuals injecting themselves with testosterone or estrogen.
are you against the injecting with testosterone or estrogen because it also makes them change? (5)

(1)- It's unnatural because you're messing with something you shouldn't mess with. I know my definition of unnatural is ambiguous, but I see it, in this case, as sewing a dog's head on a cat's body - kind of like playing God, or something. In this case, that is what I consider unnatural, crossing a line you shouldn't be supposed to cross (meddling about with living beings (I'm not talking about having your nose made or whatever, I'm talking about genes & whatnot)).

(2)- I'm not against all unnatural things. I'm against unnatural things that go beyond the border of what we should and should not do. Like, you can't change your D into a V because you weren't born with a V, you were born with a D. And no, I'm not saying you can't have surgery to have, for example, your malformed arm replaced with a normal arm because you weren't born with a normal arm, you were born with a malformed arm, because, in a physically normal human being, arms are not malformed.

I'm against highly changing one's body. Want to have your nose done? Aight, go ahead, not too big a deal. But you want to have your D changed into a V? your skin colour changed (when it's O.K. as it is)? your arms changed into wings? No. It was O.K. for you to make minor changes, but now it's a bit too much.

(3)- Yes, it's affecting me. It's affecting our society by making it think that having your gender changed is something we should be able to do. It's affecting it by making it see that with science we can do whatever we want whether it's ungodly or not.

(4)- It can make the person happier because it's what said person wanted. I feel uneasy about it because, even though it helped the individual, it's still unnatural (see (1)). This is probably why I see transsexualism as something mental and not genetic.

(5)- Yes, see (1).

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gkaby

Member

From: South coast of Antarctica

Joined: 2015-02-15

Posts: 779

Website

Re: Sexuality

you are arguing that someone can have their body change unless the thing you are changing was okay and the change itself is not minor.
what exactly is the point at which things become minor vs major, and why is that the point at which things shouldnt be allowed?
how do you determine whether something was okay, and why should we not allow people to majorly change things about themselves that are okay?

i guess you said its like playing god, but why is that playing god, and not things like saving someone's life? i am unfamiliar with the term's meaning but i would think that deciding that someone should live rather than is more "severe" than deciding to change part of someone's body. i googled it and found this (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Playing_God_(ethics))  wikipedia page on which it says "Alleged acts of playing God may include, for example, deciding who is to live or die in a situation where not everyone can be saved." if your reason for not allowing someone to change their body under the conditions that it is major change and the thing being changed was originally okay is that it is like playing god, then you need to say exactly what that means and why it should matter.

"(I'm not talking about having your nose made or whatever, I'm talking about genes & whatnot))." neither changing your nose nor changing your sexual organs through surgery are changing your genes. but if you consider changing your sexual organs through surgery as changing the physical expression of your genes, then changing your nose is the same under many circumstances. assuming the environment has some kind of effect on the outcome of how your nose looks (ignoring thinks like damage to it from the environment like having your nose ripped off or broken), altering your nose under amounts that the environment could change it wouldnt be changing its genes. however under your current stance i feel it would be safe to assume that changing one's nose drastically would be an acceptable change for you.

as mentioned above, you need explicitly explain at what point things are considered okay as they are and unable to change.
concerning this "your skin colour changed (when it's O.K. as it is)" and " you were born with a malformed arm, because, in a physically normal human being, arms are not malformed"
it might be argued that being white in certain areas such as areas with a lot of sun is a disadvantage due to an increased risk of skin cancer, and that being black in certain areas, such as areas with very little sun, would be a disadvantage due to excess energy usage in producing more pigmentation.
this would mean that a change to prevent an increased risk of skin cancer(not sure exactly what the numbers are) is okay as it is, and shouldnt be changed, and that a malformed arm is not okay as it is.

i apologize for that bad organization, im just putting these down as i think of them

what if someone gets in an accident and nothing remains of their sexual organs? it is clear that it is not okay as it is, so it should be acceptable to have surgery to have sexual organs that you did not start out with?

"It can make the person happier because it's what said person wanted. I feel uneasy about it because, even though it helped the individual, it's still unnatural (see (1)). This is probably why I see transsexualism as something mental and not genetic." you said to not change things that are okay as they are. this is assuming some things because i really dont know how they feel but, what if someone who wants to have surgery to change their sexual organs feels bad all day every day as a result of being in the wrong body. i would think that this is not okay, and that it should be changed. i guess on relooking at what you said, you are arguing that it is a mental issue rather than a physical issue. i dont really have a complete point to make here i guess

"Yes, it's affecting me. It's affecting our society by making it think that having your gender changed is something we should be able to do. It's affecting it by making it see that with science we can do whatever we want whether it's ungodly or not."
does it have any direct effects on you?
what does ungodly mean?

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idk

Slushie

Member

From: look behind u

Joined: 2015-03-04

Posts: 504

Re: Sexuality

What I'm getting from this is that transsexuality only exists because of the environment we live in, not because it's something inherent to human nature. If society didn't place such a large emphasis on gender roles, people would feel no need to change their biological sex.

So, from that, it's better to support someone in becoming comfortable with the body they were born with instead of supporting their transition to a different one.

That reasoning doesn't apply if the reason for a sex change is based on sexuality, i.e. the body they were born with doesn't fit the role they feel they're meant to play in the act of sex.

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ok

Anak

Guest

Re: Sexuality

@Terrasher I do understand where you're coming from. Would you in a similar way advocate for abortion, fertility treatment, etc.? As gkaby said, it's difficult to draw the line from where thing are minor or major.

I would think that a specific person should have been born with the genitalia that they would be changing to. Like your malformed arm example, most human beings are born with the genitalia that, well, they should have been born with.

I don't really like the unnatural argument. Although I get what you're saying, everyone used to (and still do) say being gay is unnatural, but it seems we're a lot more accepting of gay people now then we were.
Being transgender seems pretty important/necessary where without surgery and hormones people might kill themselves.

Creature

Member

From: The Dark Web

Joined: 2015-02-15

Posts: 9,658

Re: Sexuality

Let people do whatever they want with their body. If they want to rebuild something, let them do it. If they want to change their gender, let them do it. If they want to have wings instead of arms, let them do it. If they want to change their poor brain, let them do it.

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This is a false statement.

shadowda

Member

From: somewhere probably.

Joined: 2015-02-19

Posts: 1,015

Re: Sexuality

What I'm getting from this is that transsexuality only exists because of the environment we live in, not because it's something inherent to human nature. If society didn't place such a large emphasis on gender roles, people would feel no need to change their biological sex.

So, from that, it's better to support someone in becoming comfortable with the body they were born with instead of supporting their transition to a different one.

That reasoning doesn't apply if the reason for a sex change is based on sexuality, i.e. the body they were born with doesn't fit the role they feel they're meant to play in the act of sex.

its not only the environment but also some form of raw mental hatred for ones own body in relation to someones personality.

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