Government Surveillance / Privacy

Bobithan · 2015-12-21 00:57:38

Is it okay for the government to listen in on supposedly private conversations for the sake of national security? Do we deserve complete and utter privacy, as citizens of a country?

Insanity · 2015-12-21 01:13:42

ye im completely fine with them listening to my phone convos, just as long as they dont beat off to them

hummerz5 · 2015-12-21 01:21:58

I feel this is a nonissue. First, the NSA thing everyone got worked up about was about times and dates. That's not listening to you talk. Sure, maybe they did listen. But that's not what everyone's complaining about.

What on earth do you have to keep private from the government that it cares about? If you're going to blow it up in some anarchist plot, they may as well know.

If you've got some dark secret that's illegal, why shouldn't they know?

If it's totally legal, what do they care?

This does bring to mind the book 1984... where they basically were watched 24/7 and the kids are indoctrinated to oust their parents, etc. That's a far cry from your telephone usage being monitored...

No, I wouldn't mind. IF the government turned around and started executing everyone around me for their views, yes, I'd be upset. But that's not happening.

Anak · 2015-12-21 01:26:42

I don't ever make phone calls but I'm uncomfortable with peope watching what I'm doing in general. Sure I have nothing to hide or whatever, but it keeps me sane to actually have a private life.

mrjawapa · 2015-12-21 02:04:34

Let's clear something up.

Whoever does the surveillance has to have solid proof that you are a risk to national security. They can't just scroll through a lists of names and go, "they look suspicious."

Therefore, unless you are doing something wrong, you have nothing to worry about. Inb4 "it's the gov't they can do what they want." No, not everyone in a government system is tyrannical or rogue, and it takes more than one person to make a call in something like this.

I think it's okay to listen in on phone calls if you are a security risk. Otherwise, no. They shouldn't even be allowed to look my name up without a damn good reason.

Tamashiimizu, W24

Anch · 2015-12-21 02:07:20

Well I believe that it's fine for the government to watch you and 'listen to your phone calls' because if you have nothing to hide then there will be nothing that will catch the government's attention. Also it's not like there is a huge room full of people with headphones on listening to people's conversation.... (at least I hope not).

mrjawapa · 2015-12-21 02:23:12

anch159 wrote:

Well I believe that it's fine for the government to watch you and 'listen to your phone calls' because if you have nothing to hide then there will be nothing that will catch the government's attention. Also it's not like there is a huge room full of people with headphones on listening to people's conversation.... (at least I hope not).

The FBI does the big headphones thing.

And I get the part about having nothing to hide, but that's not the point. The point is they are invading your privacy.

Bimps · 2015-12-21 02:44:32

im one out of the millions of people in the u.s., i doubt they give any **** about me or anyone on this forum. your life is safe kiddos

XxAtillaxX · 2015-12-21 03:50:30

hummerz5 wrote:

I feel this is a nonissue. First, the NSA thing everyone got worked up about was about times and dates. That's not listening to you talk. Sure, maybe they did listen. But that's not what everyone's complaining about.

What you are referring to is metadata. The NSA did not only collect metadata. You should listen to Edward Snowden's reports before you establish a position on this.
The issue I have with metadata, however, is that is it very revealing - and the ability to collect it implies power beyond simply doing that.
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014 … de-photos/

hummerz5 wrote:

What on earth do you have to keep private from the government that it cares about? If you're going to blow it up in some anarchist plot, they may as well know.

If the government can access it, anyone can. It can be used against you, recorded permanently, without your permission.
You either have privacy, or you don't. There is no middle ground.

hummerz5 wrote:

This does bring to mind the book 1984... where they basically were watched 24/7 and the kids are indoctrinated to oust their parents, etc. That's a far cry from your telephone usage being monitored...
No, I wouldn't mind. IF the government turned around and started executing everyone around me for their views, yes, I'd be upset. But that's not happening.

People are being murdered for their views, corrupt governments have an animus against whistleblowers and journalists.
Your telephone usage includes who you talk to, when you talk to them, and it can be implied solely from metadata that if you're calling a number associated to a sex hotline, what exactly you're doing.

Bimps wrote:

im one out of the millions of people in the u.s., i doubt they give any **** about me or anyone on this forum. your life is safe kiddos

That doesn't excuse your privacy being invaded. It is still of concern to many people, even if your life is meaningless you still deserve privacy.

Tamashiimizu, JadElClemens, ZeldaXD, mrjawapa

ZeldaXD · 2015-12-21 15:23:37

AlphaJon, JadElClemens, Pingohits, mrjawapa

hummerz5 · 2015-12-22 02:49:19

@ atilla
I thought you were going to link me with a post that said NSA was actually recording those phone calls... if they are, that's interesting. Do they have the resources to record all the concurrent conversations and analyze them all? The link basically showed snowden saying "yeah these guys are immature" and the director saying "Nuh uh" so we really can't consider either of them credible. IIRC, snowden's in Russia. He's got to keep pumping some form of bs to keep free room and board.

Alright, I incorrectly assume that the NSA can properly secure their records.

True. I was referring mostly to the US, but if we're adapting this to countries where such strict responses are used to free speech, phone calls are probably not what you're most concerned about; you don't need an internet forum to debate it.

That's logical. We still return to the fact that on average, you'll find average people. They probably, on average, do things not socially on the up-and-up. calling a sex hotline, that's great. Unless I plan on running for presidency, my life won't end with that being ousted. Sure, a person's going to be embarrassed. But not dead.

You're right, privacy is more important than I'm accepting. I still feel like there's a middle ground between your views (which to me seem extreme-ish) and my views (which may also be extreme to you, who knows).
That'll take more thinking than EE forums render.

@ Zelda: I disagree with that image. Just because snowden has a nice picture next to it, doesn't make it infallible. As I see it, privacy lends itself to doing improper things; free speech lends itself to making sure that issues are properly addressed and considered.

ZeldaXD · 2015-12-22 16:26:51

hummerz5 wrote:

privacy lends itself to doing improper things

No, with that you're implying that only criminals need privacy? Whistleblowers, activists, your family and friends, law enforcement, militaries, a business, lots of people need privacy, It's the same reason you have a door, the same reason you have a curtain. If the government can access it, anyone can access it, because the government are just people, and people make mistakes and someday that information can be used agains't you for a silly reason.

Freedom of speech is the right to communicate one's opinions and ideas without fear of government retaliation or censorship.

food for thought:
https://www.aclu.org/blog/you-may-have- … thing-fear
https://www.torproject.org/docs/faq-abu … tCriminals
https://www.torproject.org/about/torusers.html.en

hummerz5

Processor · 2015-12-22 16:52:42

I don't even care about the government analyzing my behavior in the current moment. I'm cool with them looking at everything I do, everything I type, everything I see or everywhere I go.

The real issue is the (permanent) storage of the data. It's not like every future government will be okay with what you say today. Looking back through history, you see what the German Nazi regime was able to do with the data that they collected through surveillance.

Not only the government though. Big companies get hacked all the time, our governments don't have any better protection from hacks and have been hacked before too!

What you say or do today might be seen by your future boss, girlfriend and might even affect your children's life.

Not everything needs to be shared, for example, many gay people aren't comfortable telling everyone that they're gay and it is no-one's concern if you decide to abort a child.

Hostage · 2015-12-26 09:42:50

I don't live in the us but if i did i wouldn't care if some guy watched me play huniepop and , play the piano at the same time

!nb4 · 2015-12-26 10:16:15

JaWapa wrote:

Let's clear something up.
Whoever does the surveillance has to have solid proof that you are a risk to national security. They can't just scroll through a lists of names and go, "they look suspicious."
Therefore, unless you are doing something wrong, you have nothing to worry about. Inb4: "it's the gov't they can do what they want." No, not everyone in a government system is tyrannical or rogue, and it takes more than one person to make a call in something like this.
I think it's okay to listen in on phone calls if you are a security risk. Otherwise, no. They shouldn't even be allowed to look my name up without a damn good reason.

You called me?
And remember, the government sees all, and you cant do anything about it.

Official Everybody Edits Forums

#1 2015-12-21 00:57:38

Government Surveillance / Privacy

#2 2015-12-21 01:13:42

Re: Government Surveillance / Privacy

#3 2015-12-21 01:21:58

Re: Government Surveillance / Privacy

#4 2015-12-21 01:26:42

Re: Government Surveillance / Privacy

#5 2015-12-21 02:04:34

Re: Government Surveillance / Privacy

#6 2015-12-21 02:07:20

Re: Government Surveillance / Privacy

#7 2015-12-21 02:23:12, last edited by mrjawapa (2015-12-21 03:30:40)

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#8 2015-12-21 02:44:32

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#9 2015-12-21 03:50:30

Re: Government Surveillance / Privacy

#10 2015-12-21 15:23:37

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#11 2015-12-22 02:49:19

Re: Government Surveillance / Privacy

#12 2015-12-22 16:26:51, last edited by ZeldaXD (2015-12-22 16:29:53)

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Re: Government Surveillance / Privacy

#14 2015-12-26 09:42:50

Re: Government Surveillance / Privacy

#15 2015-12-26 10:16:15, last edited by !nb4 (2015-12-26 10:17:34)

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