Hillary Clinton or Donald Trump?

Zumza · 2015-12-18 21:24:51

You really do not understand the term of Debate don't you?
There have been few users who actually were impartial.

Pyromaniac · 2015-12-18 21:58:02

Lol you're not supposed to be impartial in a debate. That defeats the whole purpose. A debate is when two or more people with opposing views (meaning they are not impartial, they have their own opinions) come together and share their thoughts and ideas, argue with the others, and try to defend their positions.

You see, if we were all impartial there couldn't be a debate, now could there?

Ratburntro44

Anch · 2015-12-18 22:52:33

If Donald Trump is president me and my family are planning to move to another country.

sthegreat, Hannah32

ZeldaXD · 2015-12-18 23:27:39

IF HE CAN'T DEFEND THE MICROPHONE HE CAN'T DEFEND YOUR COUNTRY

Onjit, Evilbunny, SirJosh3917

Insanity · 2015-12-18 23:59:19

all the presidential candidates are absolute trash this year

it's so goddamn sad that we can't find a leader who's qualified to run this country when we're supposedly the most influential and powerful country in the world

N1KF, Pyromaniac

TaskManager · 2015-12-19 00:17:50

#deeznuts2016

hummerz5 · 2015-12-19 00:25:09

Anak wrote:

Zumza wrote:
If he wasn't clever I don't think he could have such a fortune.
"My father started me off with a small loan of a million dollars"

Google says Trump's net worth is 4 billion USD. He got 4000 times the investment. Sorry, but I doubt you or I could take our monies and turn a 400000% profit on things. Shoot, I'd take that.

BuzzerBee wrote:

Oh gosh, it's really disgusting seeing all of these people say they want Trump to win. Like I can't tell if you're serious or not. As Pyromaniac said, I really hope you aren't old enough to vote yet because you would be dooming the country.

dooming with foreign policy? dooming because the president makes all our legislative decisions? hmm

I'm voting for Bernie Sanders #FeelTheBern2k16
To list three reasons:
He's making efforts to reduce the gap in wages.
He's fighting for black lives, women's rights, and equality for the LGBTQIA+ community.
He wants to greatly reduce or eliminate the cost of college tuition.

Sounds very democratic of him. How exactly does a president enact that sort of change? I thought congress made laws. Perhaps I need to go to school eh. Equality, probably a good idea. Too much can be detrimental, but until that happens, we can't really touch on that. College tuition really should remain something for the states to decide. Why? Budget. We already have all these public-benefit systems. Do we really need that one?

What is Trump doing? Deporting (people)

(snipped that unnecessary ad hominem)
I imagine deporting people isn't efficient. I imagine the whole "omg get rid of Mexicans" stems from a (mis?)placed sense of patriotic pride. Meanwhile, many folks coming into the country do not make an attempt to learn English, or apply "American" customs. Sure, you could argue "but American should be a blend, and right now it's just a blend of Europe" or something similar. BUT, that blend IS established. Becoming selectively ethnocentric won't fix this gap, it really just gives people a group to want to deport. If "illegal immigrants" took efforts to match customs, there'd be very little to get angry over.

Am I advocating assimilation? Sounds like it. I can't very well say minority ideals aren't reasonable or worth consideration. However, we could probably skip the entire issue.

Trump also advocates banning immigrants. Is that purely because of his skin tone, as you mention, or can it be reasoned down to national security? Someone argued that you can't keep an idea out. That's true, but we can sure try to keep weapons and potential attacks at bay.

Insanity wrote:

I feel bad for Trump supporters. It must be hard being that goddamn stupid.

We're living in a time where many people DO simply vote within party lines, or for who has the best slogan, or catchy tones. Honestly, it's not because they're "goddamn stupid," that they vote for trump, it's that they vote at all.

All this said, he seems like a pretty rough character. I haven't decided where my vote's going. But I can't appreciate the reasoning offered against him.
except "WHITE POWER" which seems like you're exaggerating.

Insanity wrote:

all the presidential candidates are absolute trash this year

it's so goddamn sad that we can't find a leader who's qualified to run this country when we're supposedly the most influential and powerful country in the world

Well, they're "trash" supported by various parts of the country. If you disagree with it, find your own party m8. The best you can do is quit rejecting it as a flawed system and participate in the hopes of choosing the best out of the choices you have.

Zumza, Erquerliet, mrjawapa

Abelysk · 2015-12-19 01:01:57

Goshanoob wrote:

Putin.

Putout.

Swarth100

Anak · 2015-12-19 01:56:39

hummerz5 wrote:

Anak wrote:
Zumza wrote:
If he wasn't clever I don't think he could have such a fortune.
"My father started me off with a small loan of a million dollars"
Google says Trump's net worth is 4 billion USD. He got 4000 times the investment. Sorry, but I doubt you or I could take our monies and turn a 400000% profit on things. Shoot, I'd take that.

He probably didn't make all that money himself.

AmdS, Pyromaniac

hummerz5 · 2015-12-19 03:42:49

Anak wrote:

He probably didn't make all that money himself.

Use of condescending graphics aside, I think it's clear he didn't just settle down at McDonalds to make a fortune. You're saying he got $1 million straight. And you think this means he got his fortune automatically.

I'm telling you that he took that million dollars and made it something far greater. You don't grasp this? Of course he didn't "make it all himself." That's investing.

Back to my original point: I guarantee you (or I) won't invest ANYTHING (of substance) and get 400000% return.

So that follows back to Zumza's simple statement. Trump, though his goals may be skewed and disagreeable, is not an idiot around money.

Zumza

Pyromaniac · 2015-12-19 03:51:40

While I do agree about Bernie Sanders probably not being able to enact the radical change he promised (free college? Please, have you looked at his plans?) I have to just say that running a business=\=running a country. Cough cough diplomacy.

Tako · 2015-12-19 06:25:08

Pyromaniac wrote:

While I do agree about Bernie Sanders probably not being able to enact the radical change he promised (free college? Please, have you looked at his plans?) I have to just say that running a business=\=running a country. Cough cough diplomacy.

Unless you're referring to something more specific than "free college", I think his plans are reasonable. He has listed some sources for revenue, such as downsizing prisons and taxing the richest people (two birds with one stone - college and wealth equality). In fact, Obama has been working on legislation to make the first two years of community college free. As for his other plans, I haven't looked into specifics, but I think any dollar well spent on education is the best investment a president can make, because it gives us an edge in the world market. Saying "it's expensive therefore we shouldn't do it" (something I hear a lot from my conservative friends) is reasonable at first but illogical in any other circumstance. For example, buying a house. If you had to buy a house in full then you would have to wait til you're 50 years old

And your comment on running a business != running a country reminds me of a pattern in US history. Some of our best presidents were AWFUL people. And recall that Lincoln, a national favorite, started or at least advocated the "Back to Africa" movement (a horrible failure), which is not too different from what Trump is suggesting. The one notable difference is that his is "short term" whereas Lincoln's was permanent (but, let's be honest, if you're scared of Muslims now, when are you going to be comfortable? When there's peace in the Middle East? Yeah, that'll happen soon).

I guess my point in drawing the comparison is that Trump could be a great leader at heart, but he is too focused/blinded by fear and hate right now. The fact he supports anti-immigration is not a problem in and of itself (I still have moral objections but you win some you lose some), it's more to do with the fact it's so prevalent in his mind. It concerns me because I can easily see it getting out of hand.

Zumza · 2015-12-19 09:42:25

Pyromaniac wrote:

Lol you're not supposed to be impartial in a debate. That defeats the whole purpose. A debate is when two or more people with opposing views (meaning they are not impartial, they have their own opinions) come together and share their thoughts and ideas, argue with the others, and try to defend their positions.
You see, if we were all impartial there couldn't be a debate, now could there?

You missed the point. I was referring to those users who simply post a conclusion without any argumentation.

hummerz5

Pyromaniac · 2015-12-19 13:30:06

Tako I really really hope you didn't misunderstand me. I in NO way support Donald trump. I was responding to hummerz saying that he knew how to handle money by saying that there is more to running a country than just knowing business.

I completely agree about the immigration. Morally, too.

As for Bernie sanders, I haven't done enough research into his plans (even though my previous post may suggest otherwise lol). It just seems to me that he's trying to please everyone. I remember reading that he wants to reduce college tuition but also raise professors salaries..? It just seems highly unlikely due to the privatization of education. But I'll be honest in saying I don't know all the details.

Edit: clearly I'm not arguing with free college lmao. It's far to expensive and if he can put a dent in that, by all means...

Insanity · 2015-12-19 16:01:55

Bernie Sanders is a Fascist lmao

hummerz5 · 2015-12-19 21:35:59

Pyromaniac wrote:

While I do agree about Bernie Sanders probably not being able to enact the radical change he promised (free college? Please, have you looked at his plans?) I have to just say that running a business=\=running a country. Cough cough diplomacy.

Oh. I didn't realize you were talking to me. You're right, successfully investing doesn't make you a good leader "of the free world." We simply cannot write off the man as incompetent (cough anak) by his money, because he does have a good deal of it. Acting in this manner could lead to diplomatic issues for sure.

Tako wrote:

He has listed some sources for revenue, such as downsizing prisons and taxing the richest people (two birds with one stone - college and wealth equality).

Not to nitpick, but around here we actually have too small prisons as it is, idk about the rest of the country. We accidentally let a few folks out early by mistake. No room for downsizing there. And, taxing the richest people? As curious as indirect wealth distribution is, you're not going to fund this system like that realistically. (Give me numbers to prove otherwise.) I presume we're leaving corporate things out of this, strictly just personal income. I imagine we have many more college-goers than people who consider themselves wealthy.

In fact, Obama has been working on legislation to make the first two years of community college free. As for his other plans, I haven't looked into specifics, but I think any dollar well spent on education is the best investment a president can make, because it gives us an edge in the world market. Saying "it's expensive therefore we shouldn't do it" (something I hear a lot from my conservative friends) is reasonable at first but illogical in any other circumstance. For example, buying a house. If you had to buy a house in full then you would have to wait til you're 50 years old

Okay, I guess I am nitpicking. I agree, an ample, well-spent budget for education ranks high up there on priorities. But I can't justify the cost, nor can you it seems. Your buying a house analogy is insightful, but it doesn't apply to "running a country." How long have we been running on a deficit? I'd like to see an argument for getting closer to a level budget. Really, that's an entire "debate" in itself: is it reasonable to increase spending in the hole?

And your comment on running a business != running a country reminds me of a pattern in US history. Some of our best presidents were AWFUL people. And recall that Lincoln, a national favorite, started or at least advocated the "Back to Africa" movement (a horrible failure), which is not too different from what Trump is suggesting. The one notable difference is that his is "short term" whereas Lincoln's was permanent (but, let's be honest, if you're scared of Muslims now, when are you going to be comfortable? When there's peace in the Middle East? Yeah, that'll happen soon).

I'm thinking the South didn't like Lincoln too much. Further, "Back-to-Africa" may have been off the wall, but I dont' think there ever was a clean way to deal with racism. This seemed to try and navigate around the issue, but instead we're just churning right into it. How would such a permeating issue be ousted? Not easily.

I guess my point in drawing the comparison is that Trump could be a great leader at heart, but he is too focused/blinded by fear and hate right now. The fact he supports anti-immigration is not a problem in and of itself (I still have moral objections but you win some you lose some), it's more to do with the fact it's so prevalent in his mind. It concerns me because I can easily see it getting out of hand.

We've also turned our politics system into much more than it should have been... perhaps at the time Lincoln wasn't spewing nonsense to earn the presidency...

Anak · 2015-12-19 22:30:59

hummerz5 wrote:

Pyromaniac wrote:
While I do agree about Bernie Sanders probably not being able to enact the radical change he promised (free college? Please, have you looked at his plans?) I have to just say that running a business=\=running a country. Cough cough diplomacy.
Oh. I didn't realize you were talking to me. You're right, successfully investing doesn't make you a good leader "of the free world." We simply cannot write off the man as incompetent (cough anak) by his money, because he does have a good deal of it. Acting in this manner could lead to diplomatic issues for sure.

I think he's incompetent as a whole, not just financially

Erquerliet · 2015-12-21 00:21:38

I don't know much about US politics but I'd rather vote Trump.
As far as I know, Trump has said some controversial stuff but I believe he wants to protect the country. Even though the idea of 'exporting' Muslims is ridiculous, I still see his point.

PS: one million dollars IS a small loan. It's a loan, you've gotta give it back in some time, and you need to use that money to make more money first.

hummerz5 · 2015-12-21 00:28:52

Anak wrote:

hummerz5 wrote:
Pyromaniac wrote:
While I do agree about Bernie Sanders probably not being able to enact the radical change he promised (free college? Please, have you looked at his plans?) I have to just say that running a business=\=running a country. Cough cough diplomacy.
Oh. I didn't realize you were talking to me. You're right, successfully investing doesn't make you a good leader "of the free world." We simply cannot write off the man as incompetent (cough anak) by his money, because he does have a good deal of it. Acting in this manner could lead to diplomatic issues for sure.
I think he's incompetent as a whole, not just financially

Good. Well, I think I have solid reasoning to say he isn't incompetent financially.
Sure, maybe you think he has bad domestic , foreign, and everywhere else policies. But he knows how to use his money.
He might not know how to run the government's money.
But. Please understand. He. Knows. His. Money.

AnonymousPoster. · 2015-12-25 03:20:54

The next president of the United States of America should be Bernie Sanders. He adequately knows what he is talking about. However, the only issues are the Gun Policy (Bernie is anti-gun). Some Americans and also other cultures may have a concern about this. On the other hand, he has positive ideas that may lower the U.S debt of 18 trillion currently. He wants to tax a investment company, this company is rich as can be and could pay off all student college debt off easily. He also wants to legalize marijuana. Of course, marijuana can be abused. But, the U.S systems knows how to control this. So there should be no issues. Bernie is also smart. Very smart, the only issue is the fact that he is 74 years old. Being the president of the United States is extremely difficult. He may die in term, but of course that is why there is always a vice president to take over easily. So either way, the U.S System never fails. If Bernie was elected the U.S could very well become a much better and safer place if he was elected.

Now about Donald Trump, JaWapa noted that he should be elected. That statement is flawed and concerning. Trump should be diagnosed with Narcissistic Personality Disorder, some psychologist agree with that statement. Trump is liar, he makes himself appear bigger than he is, he is also sexist and uneducated. An example of the uneducated statement is: He is being taught about America and current events. On one course, he was taught about taxes, only taxes. Once he was debating he would twist words and goes back to the taxes to appear well educated. However, all knew he was being stupid. Now referring back to my examples, he is also sexist. And in fact he is starting to make a scene over Hillary Clinton and speaking over her and others! In addition to all of this, he is being genocidal. He wants to tattoo Muslim's (like they did in the Holocaust in a way). He also wants to kick all of them out. - This would not solve any issues, this would make them angry as a whole and make them attack us. The best way to stop terrorism is to negotiate and not to build a wall which would cost billions (WHICH WOULD LAND US INTO MORE DEBT). Also, another way to stop terrorism is to attack the source, not the civilization that is doing nothing. Not to mention about the Holocaust. Donald trump is doing actions that Hitler took. - JaWapa, let's hope you're joking. Donald Trump is childish and unrealistic.

Thank you all for who read.

sthegreat, Kevin, W24

Hostage · 2015-12-25 17:45:17

The next you-es-ay president should be pingohit.

SirJosh3917

AmdS · 2015-12-25 18:27:44

Hostage wrote:

The next you-es-ay president should be pingohit.

He is not even applying

Koya · 2016-01-03 16:26:18

JaWapa wrote:

I'm favoring Donald Trump

I am not surprised at all, JaWapa being a far right wing xenophobic is not news

JaWapa wrote:

but I feel like he's promising all these great things that he can't do, or that he's not allowed to do.

It is true he won't be able to do much, just make people who were not born in America and aren't white feel uncomfortable - which isn't worth it.
_

Bernie is definitely the best candidate; he is aware of the global situation, doesn't just point fingers and is such a nice guy.

Pyromaniac, Onjit, sthegreat, 32OrtonEdge32dh

sthegreat · 2016-01-16 00:54:10

Insanity wrote:

Bernie Sanders is a Fascist lmao

Dude, what?

Pingohits · 2016-01-16 01:08:52

AmdS wrote:

Hostage wrote:
The next you-es-ay president should be pingohit.
He is not even applying

who says

sthegreat, Hostage, Slabdrill, SirJosh3917

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#26 2015-12-18 21:24:51

Re: Hillary Clinton or Donald Trump?

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Re: Hillary Clinton or Donald Trump?

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