Official Everybody Edits Forums

Different55

Forum Admin

Joined: 2015-02-07

Posts: 16,575

Re: The EE staff, their roles, their vision.

So the obvious answer to that is to get rid of half the staff who handle reports so that even more time passes before reports are dealt with. Makes sense.

Seriously though I can't tell what you actually want here. Earlier you were complaining about half the staff being useless and now you're complaining about something that can most easily be solved by adding more mods.

I admit it was a little bit ambiguous.. My point is, there will always be reports to handle, and you can't add an infinite amount of mods. But apart from that, we can't actually know how or if the reports are handled. The mods do this job in their free time, which means that they have no reason to feel obligated to this task. I'm saying the problem can be solved by offering more freedom and less moderation.

What freedoms could they give to users that would solve any problems?

And as far as transparency without violating privacy, why not display a pop-up when a user's report is dealt with next time they join the lobby, or a highlighted system PM to them if they're in a level at the time?

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"Sometimes failing a leap of faith is better than inching forward"
- ShinsukeIto

Ben

Member

Joined: 2015-02-17

Posts: 318

Re: The EE staff, their roles, their vision.

And as far as transparency without violating privacy, why not display a pop-up when a user's report is dealt with next time they join the lobby, or a highlighted system PM to them if they're in a level at the time?

Umm no, automated messages are the worst. I want a proof, not a confirmation that they handle reports, because that has been "confirmed" by them many times.

Different55

Forum Admin

Joined: 2015-02-07

Posts: 16,575

Re: The EE staff, their roles, their vision.

It's the best solution I can think of. It lets people see that their reports are read by people and not just tossed into some empty void, while still protecting the privacy of the people who are reported. Not allowing privacy like that will cause more problems than are worth for one person's peace of mind.

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"Sometimes failing a leap of faith is better than inching forward"
- ShinsukeIto

mrjawapa

Corn Man 🌽

From: Ohio, USA

Joined: 2015-02-15

Posts: 5,840

Website

Re: The EE staff, their roles, their vision.

What freedoms could they give to users that would solve any problems?

I too would like to know this.

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Discord: jawp#5123

Different55

Forum Admin

Joined: 2015-02-07

Posts: 16,575

Re: The EE staff, their roles, their vision.

What freedoms could they give to users that would solve any problems?

I too would like to know this.

Maybe he's talking about some sort of self moderation beyond kicking but preventing any sort of abuse of that would be a nightmare.

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"Sometimes failing a leap of faith is better than inching forward"
- ShinsukeIto

mrjawapa

Corn Man 🌽

From: Ohio, USA

Joined: 2015-02-15

Posts: 5,840

Website

Re: The EE staff, their roles, their vision.

Indeed.  I'm not exactly sure what else everyone could be given anyway.

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Discord: jawp#5123

Evilbunny

Member

From: The bottom of my heart

Joined: 2015-02-25

Posts: 1,276

Re: The EE staff, their roles, their vision.

And stop feeding Tom, none of his points hold any sort of meaning. You're just making this thread worse by giving him attention...

I have the right to express my opinions, and they asked for feedback and criticism. I'm just addressing issues that I believe they should consider solving..

Your criticism is based on your lack of faith in the staff, if you realized that they are doing all that they can to make the game nicer, then you shouldn't have any complaints. Almost everybody in this community realizes that the game is in the best hands it has ever been in, so I don't think that the mods feel any need to address this issue.

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Evilbunny (in cursive)

TheSource85

Member

From: Apeldoorn, Netherlands

Joined: 2015-06-07

Posts: 41

Re: The EE staff, their roles, their vision.

Of course... I should have known you would make a rule preventing you from posting bans. That's pretty convenient now that I'm asking you to prove you actually do anything in this game, isn't it?

Though I don't always agree to your (rather) negative-ish posts, I do agree that at least your own reports should be logged and handled neatly.
So a contact ticket system (not only for abuse reports) would be great and clear for the players who report stuff, as they can actually see how the team handled the report.

Not sure if it will be created, but I will support you on this one!

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Any kind of management not willing to listen is no management at all..

skullz17

Member

Joined: 2015-02-15

Posts: 6,699

Re: The EE staff, their roles, their vision.

This was a thing.

rip hexagon

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thx for sig bobithan

FLDGames

Member

Joined: 2015-02-21

Posts: 5

Re: The EE staff, their roles, their vision.

When I Playing EE. I Call NVD Drunk

Kira

Guest

Re: The EE staff, their roles, their vision.

When I Playing EE. I Call NVD Drunk

cool

eeisold

Member

Joined: 2015-06-14

Posts: 202

Re: The EE staff, their roles, their vision.

I thought it was funny with the whole "how do I become mod" thing.
Of course the real answer is being an internet friend of someone 'in charge'... regardless of whether or not a position is open. cjmaeder never really struck me as a go-getting dev. but hey, deception is great, right?

I get that some people think that they (the now moderators) are kind of useless, but if you actually look at it, they are important. Not every admin can do everything, which is why they made this to define their roles. You can't honestly expect all of them to be able to handle the reports they get, coding in the game, graphics, and every other things to make the game better such as bug fixes and such, they would burn out fast if that happened. This is exactly where the moderators come in, I don't think people realize how many reports come in (probably a lot false reports) and how much mediating needs to happen. it is important to keep good moderation in the game, which is what moderators are supposed to do, you can't just say one person is going to moderate things, mainly because with moderation comes a big grey area, some people agree with things, others don't, which is why they have a group of people making those decisions and all those people to be equal amongst each other to balance out the rules they have set. They may not be doing coding or anything that some people may deem important, but just because they aren't doing something that you can't see doesn't mean they aren't important.

This is a beautiful wall of text. You're defending some moderators and their positions. You're right, no man is an island. It takes a good group of people to tackle big issues, sure. Now, I realize it's wrong to simply assume that if something worked in the past, it'll work again. But the small handful of mods (/sightings) was enjoyed with the thousands of concurrent users. (shocker--this was before the advent of guest bombing holy shi). Assuming that your moderators/admins actually give a fixed amount of care to each issue, then yes, you're right. People would definitely burn out. But let's be honest. This is the internet, some are even reluctant (still) to give their ages. There's very few layers of abstraction left to distance someone from their obligations.(In short, I imagine the mod team to be a loose-knit collection of selectively-lazy micro-managers.)

So the obvious answer to that is to get rid of half the staff who handle reports so that even more time passes before reports are dealt with. Makes sense.

Again, this assumes that for a given set of moderators, a fixed proportion of jobs gets done. But we know that some will be more efforting than others. And some still will get all upset and 'resign' because of community dissent. The "obvious answer" is that there's no good fix to this situation.

In summation, I think you have a fine team of folks chosen for your "moderation" team.
-- If EE's popularity was somehow proportional to the effort/staff that went into it, (which it most likely isn't...) then you're doing this all wrong.
-- Pulling random people to do coding that you were originally all-too-willing to copy/do on your own is quite an interesting development.
.. -- (That is of course, directed towards NVD's remake of EE that failed miserably. Especially with the failed authentication system and indiscriminate banning of all active users... so glad to see you back in the driver's seat)
-- Hope you all have fun.

Oh, and tomkazaz. Great points you bring up... sort of. It's too bad you're fighting for the dissenting opinion.

---

Those who can't do, teach.
A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools.
It is a well-known fact that those people who must want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it... anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job.
I think fish is nice, but then I think that rain is wet, so who am I to judge?
For a moment, nothing happened. Then, after a second or so, nothing continued to happen.

nlmdejonge

Member

Joined: 2015-02-15

Posts: 1,264

Re: The EE staff, their roles, their vision.

Thanks Nou.

If I may ask some questions. You write: "NVD owns the game." Back in the day, Chris made $10,000 monthly (source). Obviously, times have changed, but EE must still be a valuable property. What exactly happened? As far as I know EE has never been for sale publicly, nor was it auctioned. Did MrShoe obtain the rights from Chris, and NVD from MrShoe? Are you all buddies or something, or did people make offers that couldn't be refused? As far as I know it is quite unusual for a fifteen year old to own a game such as EE. Also, seeing how several admins/developers other than NVD appear to have access to the codebase, does this mean you work with confidentiality contracts (/NDAs) or something? You write that you all work on EE in your "free time", but perhaps that's with the exception of NVD - if he's the sole recipient of EE's revenue.

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I have permanently left the game and forum.
EE is an entertaining game and I enjoyed playing it...
...but it's time for me to move on.

Master1

Member

From: Crait

Joined: 2015-02-15

Posts: 4,452

Re: The EE staff, their roles, their vision.

Would you get rid of those useless moderators already? For god's sake, they don't do any good to this game apart from **** everyone off..

Wow, mean.

I will admit that I don't do much as others. Pretty much all I do is talk to people ingame, and check reports (As said in the OP) but I don't that counts as being useless. Every report I check is helping, although it is very little. I don't think we should be removed for not helping as much as others, I mean afterall, it's a volunteer position. None of us are being paid to do it.

Also I don't see how we're **** anyone off... Besides you maybe (?) I personally make every attempt to make players happy, and I will always explain my reasoning behind my decisions if people disagree. I don't see how I could be making people angry, but if I do, please let me know before going on a rant. I can always work to fix those things that you don't like about me if needed ^^

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Nou

Member

Joined: 2015-02-24

Posts: 2,762

Re: The EE staff, their roles, their vision.

Thanks Nou.

If I may ask some questions. You write: "NVD owns the game." Back in the day, Chris made $10,000 monthly (source). Obviously, times have changed, but EE must still be a valuable property. What exactly happened? As far as I know EE has never been for sale publicly, nor was it auctioned. Did MrShoe obtain the rights from Chris, and NVD from MrShoe? Are you all buddies or something, or did people make offers that couldn't be refused? As far as I know it is quite unusual for a fifteen year old to own a game such as EE. Also, seeing how several admins/developers other than NVD appear to have access to the codebase, does this mean you work with confidentiality contracts (/NDAs) or something? You write that you all work on EE in your "free time", but perhaps that's with the exception of NVD - if he's the sole recipient of EE's revenue.

All valid questions, but I'm going to have to disappoint you with my answers: I'm not actually sure how the transfer took place, I joined after all this happened and I never really asked. Currently, we have no official NDAs, we're working on a base of trust, but NDAs really aren't a bad idea. Also, considering the legal requirement of the age of 18 it may also be tough to enforce these.

As for financial matters, as I'm sure you'll understand, I'm not going to disclose any of that.

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No u.

nlmdejonge

Member

Joined: 2015-02-15

Posts: 1,264

Re: The EE staff, their roles, their vision.

[...] and I never really asked.

Could you ask? Aren't you curious?

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I have permanently left the game and forum.
EE is an entertaining game and I enjoyed playing it...
...but it's time for me to move on.

Anch

Member

Joined: 2015-02-16

Posts: 5,447

Re: The EE staff, their roles, their vision.

I don't understand why some people are so angry/disappointing at the current staff as of right now. If you haven't noticed, MrShoe left (the person you said was a terrible mod) and a bunch of new players that were all of our friends joined the staff to replace him. Whats the problem? When you (Tomkazaz) say stuff about reportabuse taking forever and not working, note this: the report abuse command was only added recently-ish (compared to how long this game has been alive). Even if it does take forever, at least it will eventually be acknowledged, or at least there IS some kind of system for reporting players. Would you rather have no reporting system? Or would you rather have a system that 'takes forever'?

Creature

Member

From: The Dark Web

Joined: 2015-02-15

Posts: 9,658

Re: The EE staff, their roles, their vision.

We don't need more moderators, we need more work from moderators. Well, at least I can make fun of them mentally or with someone.
I think the admins are doing well, I wonder how much time it takes for a single programmer program a new mechanism.

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This is a false statement.

Master1

Member

From: Crait

Joined: 2015-02-15

Posts: 4,452

Re: The EE staff, their roles, their vision.

We don't need more moderators, we need more work from moderators.

I agree with both of these. I would be very open to doing more work, if there were more things that I was capable of doing. I'm a terrible artist, so helping toop with graphics would be a disaster. I also have zero programming knowledge, so that wouldn't end well for me either. Report checking is something easy that I can handle, so that's mainly why I stick to that. I also have a ton of leadership experience (from both real life and on EE), which is a great thing to have when doing moderation stuff ingame.

I will try to do more work, but as you can see, there's not too much that I can do ^^

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Anch

Member

Joined: 2015-02-16

Posts: 5,447

Re: The EE staff, their roles, their vision.

We don't need more moderators, we need more work from moderators.

I agree with both of these. I would be very open to doing more work, if there were more things that I was capable of doing. I'm a terrible artist, so helping toop with graphics would be a disaster. I also have zero programming knowledge, so that wouldn't end well for me either. Report checking is something easy that I can handle, so that's mainly why I stick to that. I also have a ton of leadership experience (from both real life and on EE), which is a great thing to have when doing moderation stuff ingame.

I will try to do more work, but as you can see, there's not too much that I can do ^^

For you who say something like, "Then why are you a staff???", I learned from JaWapa that moderators do the coding and like updates and stuff and the admins help with the community. (Or was it vice versa?)

Different55

Forum Admin

Joined: 2015-02-07

Posts: 16,575

Re: The EE staff, their roles, their vision.

We don't need more moderators, we need more work from moderators.

I agree with both of these. I would be very open to doing more work, if there were more things that I was capable of doing. I'm a terrible artist, so helping toop with graphics would be a disaster. I also have zero programming knowledge, so that wouldn't end well for me either. Report checking is something easy that I can handle, so that's mainly why I stick to that. I also have a ton of leadership experience (from both real life and on EE), which is a great thing to have when doing moderation stuff ingame.

I will try to do more work, but as you can see, there's not too much that I can do ^^

For you who say something like, "Then why are you a staff???", I learned from JaWapa that moderators do the coding and like updates and stuff and the admins help with the community. (Or was it vice versa?)

Yeah, it's the reverse. The game's staffscheme matches the forums now, with Administrators handling forum-wide tasks and moderators dealing with specific issues and reports and things like that, although at least on here there's a ton of overlap.

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"Sometimes failing a leap of faith is better than inching forward"
- ShinsukeIto

eeisold

Member

Joined: 2015-06-14

Posts: 202

Re: The EE staff, their roles, their vision.

perhaps I fit in here better if I'm more blatant

all you mods suck

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Those who can't do, teach.
A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools.
It is a well-known fact that those people who must want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it... anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job.
I think fish is nice, but then I think that rain is wet, so who am I to judge?
For a moment, nothing happened. Then, after a second or so, nothing continued to happen.

BuzzerBee

Forum Admin

From: Texas, U.S.A.

Joined: 2015-02-15

Posts: 4,575

Re: The EE staff, their roles, their vision.

perhaps I fit in here better if I'm more blatant

all you mods suck

The only thing you were was blatantly rude.
Something tells me you're someone's alt but post here when you have something of value to say

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eeisold

Member

Joined: 2015-06-14

Posts: 202

Re: The EE staff, their roles, their vision.

ah, blatantly blatant.
well, I posted something more productive earlier. It got swallowed amongst the (dare I use the word) blatant quibbling of other forum-goers. But that's ok.

So I figure, if (sufficiently) thought-out arguments don't belong on this forum, well. Do as the romans do.
(as far as I can tell, that entails sending a max 3-line message (oh carp i'm breaking the rule) that has very little constructive value)

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Those who can't do, teach.
A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools.
It is a well-known fact that those people who must want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it... anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job.
I think fish is nice, but then I think that rain is wet, so who am I to judge?
For a moment, nothing happened. Then, after a second or so, nothing continued to happen.

RavaTroll

Member

From: France

Joined: 2015-02-16

Posts: 820

Re: The EE staff, their roles, their vision.

I'm glad you posted this Nou, I do think this was the move to do to show people that you care about doing your jobs well.

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Trolls be in da place, mon !