Do you believe in free will?

Bobithan · 2015-03-09 02:17:35

Do you believe in free will, or is everything predetermined as fate?

SPT · 2015-03-09 02:35:13

i thought it said free wifi im so sorry

Miasmic, Insanity, RumMumMario, drstereos, Lionhart, Deltaz, Shadow, some woman, Onjit

Calicara · 2015-03-09 03:24:20

Pyromaniac started this discussion before. I think it ended with our inevitable disagreement and Treejoe4 calling me a psychopath.

The short answer is no. Humans don't have free will so long as we are slaves to our bodies. We can renounce rules and civilization, but we will always be slaves to our base instincts, to eat, live, and breed.

Pyromaniac

Different55 · 2015-03-09 03:58:21

I don't believe in a deterministic universe.

Onjit · 2015-03-09 04:23:43

I believe the argument is irrelevant.

Calicara, Bobithan

Ratburntro44 · 2015-03-09 05:06:34

I don't see why free will and determinism would be contradictory. I believe in both of them.

Different55 · 2015-03-09 05:32:20

I think I can see where you're coming from but I'm not sure. Is your thinking along the lines of "Just because this choice was predetermined doesn't make it any less my choice," or am I totally off?

gkaby · 2015-03-09 06:51:47

Does quantum physics make it impossible to theoretically predict with 100% accuracy what will happen in the future?

Nickolai

Onjit · 2015-03-09 07:38:51

gkaby wrote:

Does quantum physics make it impossible to theoretically predict with 100% accuracy what will happen in the future?

That only works if you don't consider the possibility that each of the experimental results were predetermined.

Abelysk · 2015-03-09 07:46:32

gkaby wrote:

Does quantum physics make it impossible to theoretically predict with 100% accuracy what will happen in the future?

Yes. You can go back in the past though. The past is stored in a growing dimension, just like how our memory works. If only there was someway to access a rift that can take us back in time...

Think about this: everything from computers to ourselves can remember. Our computers store data and keep it. Everything remembers. This principle applies to existence. All of existence is constantly remembering things and as it is remembering, the overall memory of everything that happened in existence is constantly expanding. Think of a small, stretchable material that starts off tiny but as it stretches, it stretches on and on non-stop.

According to Einstein's Theory of Relativity, time goes in one direction only. Every second, existence's memory keeps on stretching and life continues. Our memory goes back to the past and looks back at it. Existence can "look" back at itself also, but if you wanna go back in the past, you'd have to make existence put you back in the past manually. Think of it like a river. At the front of the river, there's us where we are right now. If we went back in the past though, we would pop up somewhere where the front of the river was a long time ago. Question: what if we changed something in the past?

Here's what happens. If we went back to the past, we would live in an alternate reality. When we go back to the past, we follow the river, but as we follow the river all of life does what it did in existence's memory. So if 2000 years ago a man ate cheese, and you traveled back in time 2000 years ago and saw the man eating cheese in the exact same spot at the exact time, it was because existence memorized that happening. In other words, you're visiting existence's memory.

So what if Abe Lincoln was not killed in the past? Would history books somehow change the text so that Abe Lincoln was no longer dead? No. Instead, a new reality would form, and in that reality, Abe Lincoln would be recorded in the history books as a president who was not assassinated. So, now there are two realities. The reality you went back to and changed, and the reality that we (in the present) are experiencing.

Future time travel is impossible because existence has not stretched that far yet... NOT!

Black holes are evidence of this. Black holes are the rifts that actually tear through time and space, and send us into the future. Are we at the head of the river? Actually, we might not be. We might be living in the past, and there's a whole big future ahead of us. Black holes are wormholes that send us somewhere into the future. So, if we aren't at the head of the river, that means where WE (forums.everybodyedits.com and rest of the world) are not at the head of the river, or in other words, the front of existence. I can imagine the front of existence having no black holes right now. Though, when we approach where the front of existence is right now, there will be black holes... THAT MEANS WE ARE IN A DIFFERENT REALITY THAN THE PEOPLE LIVING AT THE FRONT OF EXISTENCE! So we are technically all time travelers already! So, yes, the only way to go in the future is via a wormhole. Black holes are not the only wormholes in the universe.

We can go back to the past and forwards to the future. But if time goes in one direction, it might only be possible to go into the future. But if we can break past existence's memory and somehow make it into the past, that could preclude Einstein's Theory of Relativity.

Insanity · 2015-03-09 08:15:14

yea dude

tentacleTherapist · 2015-03-09 08:38:44

Ratburntro44 wrote:

I don't see why free will and determinism would be contradictory. I believe in both of them.

Sorry they do mean completely differing things.
Determinism is the view that an individuals behaviour is shaped or controlled completely by internal or external forces. While Free will is the view that individuals are capable of self determination and have an active role in controlling their behaviour.
Saying you believe in both is similar to saying that you believe the earth is both round and flat, it may if you take the meanings and manipulate them a lot but as the definitions are you can't say that your behaviour is completely controlled by internal or external forces and also we have control over them.

rgl32 · 2015-03-09 12:55:03

I don't think we have free will, or I should say not complete free will. Ignoring the necessities of what we must do (eat, drink, sleep, etc.) humans in general are very predictable and follow a pretty simple pattern. We have choices we make, but those choices are usually brought up by other outside forces, as a quick example say something comes up at the last minute with someone asking if you want to do something. You basically have 2 choices to make, either do something with that person, or don't in the most simplest answers. Your life is based off these choices, and since you can't control anything about these occurrences, then you can't have complete free will. You can however choose what you can do when they come up, but since the options are limited, you are basically defining a path for what you want your future to look like, not creating the path.

Bobithan · 2015-03-09 13:51:28

gkaby wrote:

Does quantum physics make it impossible to theoretically predict with 100% accuracy what will happen in the future?

But even if everything is decided by quantum dice rolls, are you the one making those decisions?

tentacleTherapist · 2015-03-09 17:54:15

rgl32 wrote:

You can however choose what you can do when they come up, but since the options are limited, you are basically defining a path for what you want your future to look like, not creating the path.

That still counts as a free will viewpoint. External factors does not mean the choices you have been given it is past experiences or conditioning or anything that has happened to you to prepare you for that "choice" eventually making you choose the one that you choose. Internal factors are things like genetic makeup and active neurotransmitters, ect. Although most humans would not want to believe that there is no such thing as complete free-will most existing evidence suggests that all of our behaviour is determined by conditioning, biology or past experiences rather than our own free choice.

skullz17 · 2015-03-09 18:50:25

Determinism. Everything is a reaction to something else. Things don't decide to happen, they happen because of something else. This goes for the choices humans make as well. On the other hand, in a world where everything happens randomly and based on nothing, is that really free will either? Not really. The concept of free will doesn't make sense.

Anak · 2015-03-09 18:56:38

One action can make something fated to happen, yet that action was done by choice...

Free will make the most sense to me. We control our bodies.

skullz17 · 2015-03-09 19:09:24

We make choices based on our environment and our genes. The neurones firing signals around your brain don't choose where they send signals. They go where they go based on the way your brain works. Which feel like where you want them to go. Because who are you? You're your consciousness, your thoughts. And that's your brain. And what your brain does is theoretically predictable. That's desire. I don't believe in some kind of soul that has its own desires, it's just your brain, your brain's desires. At least that's what I think.

mrjawapa · 2015-03-09 20:23:09

I don't think we live our lives by a prophesy or predetermined fate. So yeah, free will is there.

Abelysk · 2015-03-09 20:49:32

JaWapa wrote:

I don't think we live our lives by a prophesy or predetermined fate. So yeah, free will is there.

We do have an already-made future. Black holes are proof of this - we are in the past right now, living into the future.

Anak · 2015-03-09 21:10:43

Itsmeandersonlol wrote:

JaWapa wrote:
I don't think we live our lives by a prophesy or predetermined fate. So yeah, free will is there.
We do have an already-made future. Black holes are proof of this - we are in the past right now, living into the future.

Your post (before) doesn't make any sense...

Abelysk · 2015-03-09 21:18:53

Anak wrote:

Itsmeandersonlol wrote:
JaWapa wrote:
I don't think we live our lives by a prophesy or predetermined fate. So yeah, free will is there.
We do have an already-made future. Black holes are proof of this - we are in the past right now, living into the future.
Your post (before) doesn't make any sense...

It makes perfect sense if you understand it... Wasn't expecting a lot of people to get what I meant though.

Anak · 2015-03-09 21:20:49

Itsmeandersonlol wrote:

Anak wrote:
Itsmeandersonlol wrote:
We do have an already-made future. Black holes are proof of this - we are in the past right now, living into the future.
Your post (before) doesn't make any sense...
It makes perfect sense if you understand it... Wasn't expecting a lot of people to get what I meant though.

Your wording is confusing, sorry.

gkaby · 2015-03-09 21:26:50

Without quantum physics I would believe that everything is completely predictable and that everything is unavoidable. Whatever decisions we make were to be made from the beginning.

tentacleTherapist · 2015-03-09 21:47:30

You cannot use most Quantum Physics as a strong argument as it is theoretical. Any Psychologists here will know,
Biological approach, behaviour is determined neurotransmitters.
Psychodynamic approach, behaviour is influenced by the tripartite personality and the different levels of consciousness, most of which is unconscious.
Behaviourist approach, behaviour is caused be conditioning
Cognitive approach, behaviour is caused by mental processes
All four of the main approaches to Psychology are determinist and leave no accounting for free will.
A lot of people on this topic are thinking about time, time is a human construct, we have no evidence that it exists as a thing. Blackholes distort light, not time. Once again Determinism does not mean that everything is predetermined, it means that your behaviour is determined on internal and external forces.

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#1 2015-03-09 02:17:35

Do you believe in free will?

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Re: Do you believe in free will?

#3 2015-03-09 03:24:20, last edited by Calicara (2015-03-09 04:05:33)

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#16 2015-03-09 18:50:25

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#18 2015-03-09 19:09:24

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#19 2015-03-09 20:23:09

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#21 2015-03-09 21:10:43

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