EX Crew supposed to judge Halloween Contest?

Cyral · Before February 2015

Failgirl101 wrote:

I believe EX Crew should be the judges, and in return receive both the lit and unlit pumpkins smilies.
That seems plenty fair to me. Because I can understand why you wouldn't want to judge. You want to get the smilies just as much as everyone else. Makes sense.
Chris is such an idiot. ( Not that that's anything new or anything)

Yea, I wish EX would judge, but chris, like you said, is and idiot sometimes..

Processor · Before February 2015

EE Beast wrote:

Failgirl101 wrote:
I believe EX Crew should be the judges, and in return receive both the lit and unlit pumpkins smilies.
That seems plenty fair to me. Because I can understand why you wouldn't want to judge. You want to get the smilies just as much as everyone else. Makes sense.
Chris is such an idiot. ( Not that that's anything new or anything)
Yea, I wish EX would judge, but chris, like you said, is and idiot sometimes..

I do not belive that he is going to choose people who have no or very little experience in EE, but maybe not the best ones too...

xputnameherex · Before February 2015

I've been making my level easier. I think they would just rage...

Tachyonic · Before February 2015

One thing I dislike is that when the EX crew are contestants in contests, they will atleast get 3rd.
Considering most of them are over 20 (Other crews don't have as much Adults), they have buttloads more experience and chance at winning than other crews.
For gods sake, let other people be in the spotlight.

treejoe4 · Before February 2015

People love playing their levels, let them make them

RavaTroll · Before February 2015

Ok guys, let's be honnest with all of you.

For the easter contest, I was offered the opportunity to join the judging team, and I accepted. There was no reward for the judging, nothing. I accepted for a simple reason : The community.

I tried being as fair as possible and being as less influenced as possible. I think I've managed to accomplish this objectives. A few months have passed now, and a lot of things happened. There was this great world bug, the ghosth problem and I almost definitly left because of that. I was really **** off about it and did something else. Now, with the late update that fixed this, I'm starting to enjoy EE as I used to, not as much, but still.

Anyway, there was rumors about an halloween contest, and I already knew I didn't wanted to enter it. But I was interested by the judging. It was kinda fun being a judge, and gave me the opportunity to somehow give something to the community. So I thought "Ok let's do this again, it can't be bad anyway.". That being said, I told RPGmaster2000 the good news, and I was actually going to be a judge.

I knew there was no reward for judging and I was ok with that. Then I heard Bee and Megalamb wanted to join the judging team. I was happy to know that, and I thought "Good, maybe we can add our vision of the game and improve it !". Then, RPG asked whole EX Crew to be judges - wait a sec, this means at least 10 to 15 judges, it's maybe too much don't you think ?

Anyway, I was like "Well, it's our opportunity to improve this game, we always wanted that." Then I heard my fellow comrades wanted a reward. My selfish personality was thinking "I wouldn't mind anyway." so I was ok with that. And then, suddenly, a wild Chris Benjaminsen appeared ! I throwed my pok... wait, no... Here's what happened :

RPG told us about the fact that Chris didn't wanted to give rewards to the judges - again, I'm ok with that - so my EX comrades were very dissapointed about this and decided not to judge and entered the contest [instead].

Then RPG told us that Chris asked some of his dev friends to join the judging team, and that's when I started having doubts about this contest and I started wondering : Do I still want to be a judge ?

So, I was kinda angry about some other stuff and I said : "I'm off the judging team, I'm off the contest, I'm done with that."

BUT - and it's important - there's still a diplomatic way and I want to try it. So I asked RPG to ask Chris - yeah I know ... - if I can have a little talk about it to know why he did that, to tell him what I think it's a bad Idea, to have him telling me his thoughts and objectives for the contest.

I want a civilized talk with no flamming or anything, I just want to tell him - as a player, as a member of EX Crew and as a judge - what I think of this contest. I also wouldn't mind talking to his friends - the other judges, to know how are they qualified to judge any levels of this game and what do they expect of the players. So, here is where we are, I'm waiting for chris / rpg to answer me a finally have this talk. I hope I'll have some agreement with Chris about this contest, and manage to have a nice faire judging team. So, for now, I'm not a judge. Your turn, Chris.

RavaTroll

EDIT : Thanks Bee, i wrote that at 2 am.

Last edited by RavaTroll (Oct 19 2011 8:28:13 am)

Bossking · Before February 2015

wow i cant believe i readed all that, but i agree 100% with you.

BEE · Before February 2015

Here I'll make it easier to read, lol:

RavaTroll wrote:

Ok guys, let's be honnest with all of you.
For the easter contest, I was offered the opportunity to join the judging team, and I accepted. There was no reward for the judging, nothing. I accepted for a simple reason : The community.
I tried being as fair as possible and being as less influenced as possible. I think I've managed to accomplish this objectives. A few months have passed now, and a lot of things happened. There was this great world bug, the ghosth problem and I almost definitly left because of that. I was really **** off about it and did something else. Now, with the late update that fixed this, I'm starting to enjoy EE as I used to, not as much, but still.
Anyway, there was rumors about an halloween contest, and I already knew I didn't wanted to enter it. But I was interested by the judging. It was kinda fun being a judge, and gave me the opportunity to somehow give something to the community. So I thought "Ok let's do this again, it can't be bad anyway.". That being said, I told RPGmaster2000 the good news, and I was actually going to be a judge.
I knew there was no reward for judging and I was ok with that. Then I heard Bee and Megalamb wanted to join the judging team. I was happy to know that, and I thought "Good, maybe we can add our vision of the game and improve it !". Then, RPG asked whole EX Crew to be judges - wait a sec, this means at least 10 to 15 judges, it's maybe too much don't you think ?
Anyway, I was like "Well, it's our opportunity to improve this game, we always wanted that." Then I heard my fellow comrades wanted a reward. My selfish personality was thinking "I wouldn't mind anyway." so I was ok with that. And then, suddenly, a wild Chris Benjaminsen appeared ! I throwed my pok... wait, no... Here's what happened :
RPG told us about the fact that Chris didn't wanted to give rewards to the judges - again, I'm ok with that - so my EX comrades were very dissapointed about this and decided not to judge and entered the contest [instead].
Then RPG told us that Chris asked some of his dev friends to join the judging team, and that's when I started having doubts about this contest and I started wondering : Do I still want to be a judge ?
So, I was kinda angry about some other stuff and I said : "I'm off the judging team, I'm off the contest, I'm done with that."
BUT - and it's important - there's still a diplomatic way and I want to try it. So I asked RPG to ask Chris - yeah I know ... - if I can have a little talk about it to know why he did that, to tell him what I think it's a bad Idea, to have him telling me his thoughts and objectives for the contest.
I want a civilized talk with no flamming or anything, I just want to tell him - as a player, as a member of EX Crew and as a judge - what I think of this contest. I also wouldn't mind talking to his friends - the other judges, to know how are they qualified to judge any levels of this game and what do they expect of the players. So, here is where we are, I'm waiting for chris / rpg to answer me a finally have this talk. I hope I'll have some agreement with Chris about this contest, and manage to have a nice faire judging team. So, for now, I'm not a judge. Your turn, Chris.
RavaTroll

Last edited by BEE (Oct 18 2011 8:36:05 pm)

Dazz · Before February 2015

BEE wrote:

Here I'll make it easier to read, lol:

sure that helped a lot, I vote your version

mustang · Before February 2015

Just to clarify, I did not ask for a prize to judge since I originally had no plans to judge. Instead, I was approached with an offer for the second place prize if I became a judge along with other members of EX Crew. I thought about it, and I decided it would be reasonable to ask for the first place prize since by being a judge I was sacrificing my chance to compete and win all the exclusive rewards.

Instead of simply being told I couldn't have the first place prize, I was told that the original offer was off the table since the judges were no longer getting anything, and I was also told that Chris didn't want players acting as the judges since his friends were going to judge. I would have gladly been a judge had I been given the exclusive rewards, and instead I have to now compete to earn them meaning there's a chance that one less team will win first place.

I still have no idea why Chris went back on his original offer. Good luck with your upcoming talk with him RavaTroll.

Last edited by mustang (Oct 18 2011 10:35:43 pm)

Garfield2436 · Before February 2015

mustang wrote:

Just to clarify, I did not ask for a prize to judge since I originally had no plans to judge. Instead, I was approached with an offer for the second place prize if I became a judge along with other members of EX Crew. I thought about it, and I decided it would be reasonable to ask for the first place prize since by being a judge I was sacrificing my chance to compete and win all the exclusive rewards.
Instead of simply being told I couldn't have the first place prize, I was told that the original offer was off the table since the judges were no longer getting anything, and I was also told that Chris didn't want players acting as the judges since his friends were going to judge. I would have gladly been a judge had I been given the exclusive rewards, and instead I have to now compete to earn them meaning there's a chance that one less team will win first place.
I still have no idea why Chris went back on his original offer. Good luck with your upcoming talk with him RavaTroll.

Dang that really sucks.

Tako · Before February 2015

Like I could've sworn I posted before, but I guess I didn't; it's probably best that Chris' dev-friends judge, for a few reasons:

1) They don't want a reward for judging.
2) They are "blind judges", meaning there will be absolutely no favoritism toward individuals.
3) Someone who's never played the game before has their own, pure, definition of a great level.
4) When the contestants know the judges well, they can manipulate their level to those specific judges' liking. Since none of us know Chris's dev-friends, we can't make a level designed just for them.

But from what I gather from the blog post, it appears the EX crew will be judging. I personally would not mind in the least if they took part in the competition -- as always, I love a challenge, and I love to see what they make (although they tend to monopolize crew popularity. Kidding).

Last edited by Tako (Oct 19 2011 9:32:11 am)

RavaTroll · Before February 2015

Let me answer you :

1) I don't want any reward and I agree with you, there shouldn't be any reward for judging.

2) This is a real concern and I think all judges have to deal with that. This is a good point BUT :

3) I disagree. If you don't know something, you can't tell what is good for it or not. Do you know how to knit ? Do you know what is the best way to knit ? I'm sure you have an idea on how people should knit, and/or what they should do, but since you have no idea of the difficulty, the time it takes, the creativity process, the techniques used, etc, you can't even guess what will be the most impressive sweater in a knit contest. And you'll mostly pick the one the impress you, even if it was made in 1 hour and is terribly easy to do. You can't judge something you don't know.
Let me take another example. You are an architect and you created an awesome concert hall, knowing how the sound works, you made it really nice, with a lot of place for the artists ( dancer, singers, actors, musicians, etc. ). Ok, so there's a dance contest tonight. You know how the sound will "move" inside this place, you know how the scene is made, you know that there'll be music, etc. Well, you wont be judge, even if you have a nice definition of what a good dance is, because you're not a dancer. Anyway, I think I've made my point.

4) You can do the same with anyone. Even if I don't know them, I know they wont know anything about the game, so I'll avoid hard minis, I'll try making it look noobish and easy because I know they may ragequit if it's too confusing, etc. Just by knowing they don't know the game, I can make a level based on that, with a lot of tricks that makes the level look and play awesome for a newbie without being original.
And that's the point. Originality can't be judged by someone who doesn't know what is normal for a game. And EE is about creativity. Creativity without originality is boring and oftenly bad.

Last edited by RavaTroll (Oct 19 2011 9:53:53 am)

Garfield2436 · Before February 2015

^That I agree. I would rather want EE expert players to judge rather than any other blind judges who don't even know "art" on minimaps.

Tachyonic · Before February 2015

Garfield2436 wrote:

^That I agree. I would rather want EE expert players to judge rather than any other blind judges.

Biased. 'Nuff said.

Chewy · Before February 2015

mustang wrote:

Just to clarify, I did not ask for a prize to judge since I originally had no plans to judge. Instead, I was approached with an offer for the second place prize if I became a judge along with other members of EX Crew. I thought about it, and I decided it would be reasonable to ask for the first place prize since by being a judge I was sacrificing my chance to compete and win all the exclusive rewards.

You wanted the trophy brick for judging and not winning anything?

RavaTroll · Before February 2015

It's your "duty" as judge not having any biased look of the game. It's hard but it's the judge burden - and that's what makes it fun.

BTW, believing anyone can be objective is stupid - I'm not saying you are ofc. Everyone's judgment is biased by his previous experiences ( here as a player ), so if they enjoyed Zelda, and play a zelda level that is poorly made but remind them zelda, their opinion will be biased. All judges have a biased opinion, even in justice, it's because they are human. It's how the brain work, it compare what he see with what he has previously seen. The only way to have a non biased opinion is to ask a 1 week old baby.

EDIT :

You wanted the trophy brick for judging and not winning anything?

I agree, you did not enter the contest mustang, you shouldn't win anything. Did the judges of the oscar awards get the prices too ? But I know it's not well played at all from chris to say "you can get the reward" and then suddenly say "no you can't actually" once you said yes to him.

Last edited by RavaTroll (Oct 19 2011 10:16:20 am)

Koya · Before February 2015

My Plans For Chris' Friends. 400 Minigames, add webs, gravestones and change the blocks. Sorted!

[Just Kidding, yeah I want EX crew to judge, chris knows they are going to come first, so give us a go at being top]

Garfield2436 · Before February 2015

SquadFS wrote:

Just Kidding, yeah I want EX crew to judge, chris knows they are going to come first, so give us a go at being top]

Besides they know more about the physics and stuff also.

Chewy · Before February 2015

RavaTroll wrote:

EDIT :
You wanted the trophy brick for judging and not winning anything?
I agree, you did not enter the contest mustang, you shouldn't win anything. Did the judges of the oscar awards get the prices too ? But I know it's not well played at all from chris to say "you can get the reward" and then suddenly say "no you can't actually" once you said yes to him.

I agree what Chris did was in bad taste but for someone to want, specifically, the trophy brick, for judging. There's something wrong with that in my eyes.

RPGMaster2000 · Before February 2015

To be completely fair, I've gotta take partial blame for this incident since Chris did not take the initiative to reward the judges, that was something I did while planning the contest last weekend while Chris was completely AFK. With that said, I just assumed that he would be okay with rewarding the judges for their work, but I was sadly mistaken about that.

I apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused the potential judges.

MIHB · Before February 2015

RavaTroll wrote:

You wanted the trophy brick for judging and not winning anything?
I agree, you did not enter the contest mustang, you shouldn't win anything. Did the judges of the oscar awards get the prices too ? But I know it's not well played at all from chris to say "you can get the reward" and then suddenly say "no you can't actually" once you said yes to him.

I don't believe the judges of the oscars are disqualified from acting or directing or anything of that sort, or perhaps they are selected from the people who aren't already acting/directing/etc.

Certainly there is no requirement to give the judges prizes, but if you're asking people who otherwise have a very good chance of winning, you have to compensate them. Why in the world would Nou or anybody else act as a judge if they otherwise plan to enter the contest and win? If you ask him to judge, you're asking him to sacrifice what is a very good likelihood of walking away with the trophy and smileys. There is no reason to expect him to do so unless you offer him something worthwhile. If he decided to judge anyway, thats his decision, but he has no obligation to do so.

Chewy wrote:

I agree what Chris did was in bad taste but for someone to want, specifically, the trophy brick, for judging. There's something wrong with that in my eyes.

The issue was that second place rewards were being offered in exchange for judging and giving up the chance at first place. That is not a good deal for Nou, or anybody in the EX Crew really: our members have won the last two contests. I personally thought that a judges smiley or something would have been a nice offer, and a gesture of respect for the work being done and the sacrifice of the chance to win, but that was never on the table.

Nou made a counteroffer, which was rejected, so he walked away to enter the contest, as was his right. He wants the trophy, and it is fair for him to state the terms on which he'll give up the chance to get it in the contest.

The original offer of smileys was then withdrawn from Bee, Megalamb, and Ravatroll after they had already accepted it, which is flat out the wrong thing to do.

Speaking for myself, I was also made the offer of the two smileys in exchange for judging. I turned it down. I did not make a counteroffer. While I also wanted to enter and win, my reason for turning down the offer was more than that. I do not believe Chris respects the judges for the work they do, or the playing community as a whole.

Considering he later broke his promise of the reward to the judges, and plans to ask people who know little to nothing about the game to judge, I believe I am correct. It does not have to be EX Crew or any "EX Crew friends" to judge. But asking people who are not familiar with the game, with the maps being made, and with the community is a slap in the face to every builder who has spent days and weeks improving his craft and learning the game.
EDIT: Apparently Chris never made an offer. The offer came from RPGMaster, who knows the game and knows the players and has judged before. The fact that he was overruled by Chris, who never plays, hasn't judged, and doesn't know the community, speaks volumes.

Last edited by MIHB (Oct 19 2011 11:12:13 am)

Mylo · Before February 2015

oO
rpgmaster made a mistake.
i thinck he is mhh he didint like to do that,
but idk why everytime the ex crew shell judge - ik they are good players, and i agree with that fully,
but why they guys shell do that everytime. why not smone other (that is what chris thought i thinck)
so he searched sme other - and he asked his friends to be friendly to them ( i thinck)
but thats not fair - i thinck the dont know really how much work is in this - i thinck they dont know ee much.
so chris can show his game his friends - normal , its unfair to give them special rights.
and i am for giving bee nou or rava judge or good (that means guys like them) the right (!!)
and i understand the membars of the ex crew if they dont like - they have so no chance ... to win
why not make a (little) present for them.
i thinck nobody will be angry for that, but if yes - he is a noob.

mylo

Last edited by Mylo (Oct 19 2011 11:13:29 am)

mustang · Before February 2015

Chewy wrote:

I agree what Chris did was in bad taste but for someone to want, specifically, the trophy brick, for judging. There's something wrong with that in my eyes.

What if it was another smiley instead of a trophy, would it then have been acceptable in your eyes? The point isn't that it's a trophy, and in fact I was completely open to negotiating and seeing what would be offered and if the trophy wasn't that didn't mean I was going to automatically not judge.

The point is there was no dialog, no effort to compromise, just a sudden withdrawal of even the original offer. If I'm going to willingly give up my chance to win exclusive prizes to instead put in the enormous amount of work it takes to properly (key word) judge, then I think some form of compensation would be greatly appreciated and makes sense as MIHB discussed.

RPGMaster2000 - I completely understand it's not your fault. Thanks for even trying to do something that made perfect sense to all the parties involved, and unfortunately you were overruled by someone who has other ideas for how judging should work.

Last edited by mustang (Oct 19 2011 12:01:45 pm)

Mylo · Before February 2015

huh there u can see mustang etc. are not childs like me.
they can talk normal. they are not angry (or a little bit )
so i like u guys - and what u do - its right
and the play a long time why not give them a little prize if they are judg. where is the problem?

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