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Twipply

Guest

Re: Fruitmonster's rant.

I supported my argument with facts.

I have a strange feeling that your facts are actually just whatever you decided.

This debate was not really a win lose.

I wouldn't be typing if I wasn't going to win.

In the end we both had our own opinions and no one really "won".

One of which is based in reason, the other?   Not so much.

Opinions are not always dumb.

Didn't say they were, but alright.

People should be allowed to express themselves in anyway they want.

...like using the word gay to mean uncool, and so on?

Knowing things doesn't make up for real life experience Twipply. Reading something in a book and experiencing it in real life are two very different things.

Umm, okay?   I've quite likely heard the word gay thrown around in real life far more often than I've read it in a book.   Also far more often than you ever have.

Your dictionary may say that the word Gay can be used in a negative way, but in my opinion I think it's wrong.

Your opinion here is pretty worthless, dictionaries and the guys who write them are not.

Books are not all knowing. They contain words, but that doesn't always make them true.

Sure.   Unless, of course, the book defines what it's about.

Most arguments are based on opinion.

No good ones are.

And in my opinion gay is not a negative term, and no book is going to make me think otherwise.

See above.

I have real life experience on this topic and I know what real people think.

Sounds to me like the guys at Oxford know a lot more than you do, "We invest in language research to ensure you have access to the latest new words and phrases and the most up-to-date definitions."

Because in the end books don't matter, it's the real people that matter.

Psst, I have a feeling the book is based upon what real people actually say.
Basically, stop arguing based upon your own opinions.   No one will ever care what you have to think in this kind of situation.   When we argue about factual things, we use facts.   Facts and logic reign here, whatever the hell goes on in your head does not.

The OP is saying not to use a word a specific way, when it's perfectly correct to do so.   What he's saying is trash, much like what you're saying.

Shy Guy

Guest

Re: Fruitmonster's rant.

Twipply, I think that the person who finds a word offensive is how the person is effected by it. A book or explanation of a word will not give full effect.
If you find it offensive, that is fine. If you are not able to control it, then just ignore it. After all:

Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words can never hurt me.

Twipply

Guest

Re: Fruitmonster's rant.

Twipply, I think that the person who finds a word offensive is how the person is effected by it. A book or explanation of a word will not give full effect.
If you find it offensive, that is fine. If you are not able to control it, then just ignore it. After all:

Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words can never hurt me.

Sure, if they think it's offensive then they're likely to be offended, but that doesn't make them right.

Having just read your +rep, I'd like to clarify, I think using the word gay to mean 'uncool' and such is perfectly fine.

Last edited by Twipply (Sep 7 2011 8:20:50 pm)

Shy Guy

Guest

Re: Fruitmonster's rant.

Twipply, I think that the person who finds a word offensive is how the person is effected by it. A book or explanation of a word will not give full effect.
If you find it offensive, that is fine. If you are not able to control it, then just ignore it. After all:

Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words can never hurt me.

Sure, if they think it's offensive then they're likely to be offended, but that doesn't make them right.

It's never right to say something offensive. It's not right if you use it, and it's certainly not right if it's used towards you.

But what can you do? You couldn't prevent me from calling you gay if I did, you couldn't prevent me from finding it offensive, nor unoffensive.

That's just how society acts. You either like it or you don't.

FruitMonster2

Guest

Re: Fruitmonster's rant.

Fruitmonster, that's just low.

I understand what you mean, by should you immediately throw hatred on someone because they misuse a word?   I don't think so.  

Do you know how many times I hear people misuse this word in one single day? Of course you don't. It's really annoying to hear people say gay every class period I have. GAY GAY GAY, that's all they say. (I rhymed!) Yet you think its not fair or nice to throw my hatred at people who misuse this word everyday and don't get punished for it. It's fair.

Once again, I want a mod to lock this topic. T-T

Calicara

Guest

Re: Fruitmonster's rant.

I end this argument Twipply, because you are obviously oblivious to what I am saying and there is no point talking to you since you clearly don't understand me.

Shy Guy

Guest

Re: Fruitmonster's rant.

That's just how society acts. You either like it or you don't.

Twipply

Guest

Re: Fruitmonster's rant.

I end this argument Twipply, because you are obviously oblivious to what I am saying and there is no point talking to you since you clearly don't understand me.

lol

I understand what you're trying to say perfectly well, it's you that doesn't understand how stupid it is.

Cyclopsicle

Guest

Re: Fruitmonster's rant.

Epic. Win.

Greenzoid2

Guest

Re: Fruitmonster's rant.

Using the word "gay" is very popular nowadays. You just have to deal with it. I myself don't use it, but I have a lot of friends who use the word gay to describe bad, annoying, etc, but with no bad intentions meant.

ex: "I dropped my phone in the river yesterday" "That's so gay" (based on real events lol)

Then there are people who use it with bad intentions meant, such as insulting somebody. To me, a bad intention is a bad intention, whether the words you use are slang or "proper english", but even the difference between slang and proper english could be negotiable.

Last edited by Greenzoid2 (Sep 13 2011 9:34:25 pm)

Calicara

Guest

Re: Fruitmonster's rant.

I think the word Gay should only be used when referring to someone who is homosexual, or if you are stating how happy you are.

However, if used in a negative way like, "Man that pushed me, he is so gay" I find it is not only wrong, but offensive to me. Pretty much everyone is like that in my school and i hate it, I mean if you don't understand what you are saying you shouldn't say it.

Chewy

Banned

Re: Fruitmonster's rant.

I know you don't trust the worlds most trusted dictionary, but when you set the region to US, you get this. Referring to definition 3.
http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/gay?region=us
The exact word you said it doesn't mean.

Twipply

Guest

Re: Fruitmonster's rant.

I know you don't trust the worlds most trusted dictionary, but when you set the region to US, you get this. Referring to definition 3.
http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/gay?region=us
The exact word you said it doesn't mean.

You dare cite that pathetic excuse for a dictionary?   You should know that feelings triumph over facts and reason.   I have lost much respect for you this day.

Calicara

Guest

Re: Fruitmonster's rant.

I don't agree that gay means foolish. I understand that is what the dictionary says, but in my mind that is in-correct. There is always a time when the power of feeling overcomes the power of reason and that is what it is like for me and the word "Gay". I understand people have their own opinions and that is just fine. But on certain matters I believe what I think is right and that's just how it is.

Last edited by Calicara (Sep 14 2011 1:23:05 pm)

Chewy

Banned

Re: Fruitmonster's rant.

But on certain matters I believe what I think is right and that's just how it is.

This is why I can't respect you. I'm a logical thinking person. If I were to follow my feelings then I would end up in jail. It's just how life is. You can't always follow your feelings. You're 17 now, and still haven't realized this? Hell, if you are 17, you're older than me.

32OrtonEdge32dh

Member

From: DMV

Joined: 2015-02-15

Posts: 5,166

Website

Re: Fruitmonster's rant.

Gay = Homosexual.
Gay ? Stupid.

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Calicara

Guest

Re: Fruitmonster's rant.

But on certain matters I believe what I think is right and that's just how it is.

This is why I can't respect you. I'm a logical thinking person. If I were to follow my feelings then I would end up in jail. It's just how life is. You can't always follow your feelings. You're 17 now, and still haven't realized this? Hell, if you are 17, you're older than me.

The most logical answers in life are not always the best answers. Leading a good life isn't necessarily about following rules it's about becoming the kind of person you want to be, and thinking independently. The oxford dictionary is mere words. It has not experienced what is is like to grow up. The dictionary is based on logic and not reason. Sure, it may say "Gay" means foolish, but in my opinion it does not. The dictionary makes it statement of what one person thinks not what everyone thinks.

I think it is okay to follow your feelings if you know you are doing or saying the right thing. And if you mess up you learn. If we did not make mistakes then we would not learn and that wouldn't be any fun now would it?

xputnameherex

Guest

Re: Fruitmonster's rant.

ughh...

Word meanings change, get over it.

Gay, to some of us, in the original meaning, to be a homosexual, is a bad thing. I am a very religious person, and not that I hate gay people, I do not think that it is right. By my beliefs, God did not want us to marry our own gender, that is why he made man and woman different. So don't say that it isn't bad and expect all of us to "think of it the right way" because "you shouldnt insult people over what they do", but to me, it's wrong, so don't tell me it isn't.

The oxford dictionary is mere words. It has not experienced what is is like to grow up. The dictionary is based on logic and not reason.

It is based on everything. People wrote those, not machines.

Last edited by xputnameherex (Sep 14 2011 3:35:57 pm)

Calicara

Guest

Re: Fruitmonster's rant.

Here is my reasoning:

The guy who writes a dictionary writes what the literal definition of Gay is. He doesn't care what people think, he just writes what he thinks the definition is.

I, who has multiple friends who are gay, would not agree.

The dictionary to me is more like guidelines. Nothing is ever really set in stone. Perhaps to the guy writing the dictionary the word "Gay" means foolish, but maybe he has not experienced himself what it is like to be gay. To me, when you say the word "Gay" meaning foolish then you are making fun of a person who is homosexual. But that is from MY experience.

Different words mean different things to different people. That is all I am saying.

Last edited by Calicara (Sep 14 2011 3:44:02 pm)

xputnameherex

Guest

Re: Fruitmonster's rant.

Here is my reasoning:

The guy who writes a dictionary writes what the literal definition of Gay is. He doesn't care what people think, he just writes what he thinks the definition is.

I, who has multiple friends who are gay, would not agree.

The dictionary to me is more like guidelines. Nothing is ever really set in stone. Perhaps to the guy writing the dictionary the word "Gay" means foolish, but maybe he has not experienced himself what it is like to be gay. To me, when you say the word "Gay" meaning foolish then you are making fun of a person who is homosexual. But that is from MY experience.

Different words mean different things to different people. That is all I am saying.

And some words are wrong either way.

Calicara

Guest

Re: Fruitmonster's rant.

I think we are kinda agreeing now.

Because in my opinion there is never a wrong opinion.

Twipply

Guest

Re: Fruitmonster's rant.

As much as I enjoy pointing out so much wrong, there becomes a point where the brainhurt isn't worth it.   This thread, you even, are getting shockingly close to that limit.

I don't agree that gay means foolish. I understand that is what the dictionary says, but in my mind that is in-correct. There is always a time when the power of feeling overcomes the power of reason and that is what it is like for me and the word "Gay". I understand people have their own opinions and that is just fine. But on certain matters I believe what I think is right and that's just how it is.

If the dictionary is a book of word definitions based upon their common/accepted usage, then yeah, gay does mean foolish.   You know, it's in the dictionary as such because it's often used that way.   That's how dictionaries work.   Again, what's in your mind is of no concern regarding questions of fact.   Feelings are worthless here.   What you feel is never automatically right just because you think it.   To use a glaringly obvious example, two people think different, mutually exclusive things, problem?

Gay = Homosexual.
Gay ? Stupid.

More like gay = this which can at times be pretty much the same as, 'stupid'.

The most logical answers in life are not always the best answers. Leading a good life isn't necessarily about following rules it's about becoming the kind of person you want to be, and thinking independently. The oxford dictionary is mere words. It has not experienced what is is like to grow up. The dictionary is based on logic and not reason. Sure, it may say "Gay" means foolish, but in my opinion it does not. The dictionary makes it statement of what one person thinks not what everyone thinks.

I think it is okay to follow your feelings if you know you are doing or saying the right thing. And if you mess up you learn. If we did not make mistakes then we would not learn and that wouldn't be any fun now would it?

lolwhat?   No, dictionaries haven't experienced growing up, but the people who write them sure have.   They've also done (I imagine) a fair bit of work regarding how words are used.   Again, your opinion here is worthless, just like my own.   Again, what's in the dictionary is not what one person thinks, the dictionary is a collection of how words are commonly used.   One guy doesn't just sit there and write whatever the hell he wants.
The lesson you need to learn here is to follow reason.

Gay, to some of us, in the original meaning, to be a homosexual, is a bad thing. I am a very religious person, and not that I hate gay people, I do not think that it is right. By my beliefs, God did not want us to marry our own gender, that is why he made man and woman different. So don't say that it isn't bad and expect all of us to "think of it the right way" because "you shouldnt insult people over what they do", but to me, it's wrong, so don't tell me it isn't.

Psst, it isn't.   Personally, I think if god made man and woman different, he'd want you to pair off with what matched, no?   If I chose a pair of something, and the individual items were different?   I'd likely send it back.   But feel free to show me where god says being gay is a bad thing, then perhaps I'll show you where he says you get to rape and murder people.   I wonder where you draw the line?
Edit: The lovely Zoey2070 pointed out to me that the original definition of gay wasn't actually to be a homosexual, so there's another thing for you to think about.

Here is my reasoning:

The guy who writes a dictionary writes what the literal definition of Gay is. He doesn't care what people think, he just writes what he thinks the definition is.

I, who has multiple friends who are gay, would not agree.

The dictionary to me is more like guidelines. Nothing is ever really set in stone. Perhaps to the guy writing the dictionary the word "Gay" means foolish, but maybe he has not experienced himself what it is like to be gay. To me, when you say the word "Gay" meaning foolish then you are making fun of a person who is homosexual. But that is from MY experience.

Different words mean different things to different people. That is all I am saying.

Of course the dude writing the dictionary cares what people think, where the hell else is he going to get the definitions from if not common usage?   Do you even think for a second before you type this garbage?

Because in my opinion there is never a wrong opinion.

Opinion: 1+1 = 3
Fact: 1+1=2
Your opinion: WRONG

Last edited by Twipply (Sep 14 2011 4:56:38 pm)

Tako

Member

From: Memphis, Tennessee, USA

Joined: 2015-08-10

Posts: 6,663

Website

Re: Fruitmonster's rant.

Alright, here's my full opinion about the usage of "gay".

The word "gay" originally meant "happy", yes? Yes, it did.

Then, people saw that homosexual people act "gay" (generally; I've never seen a depressed homosexual), which lead to homosexuals being labeled "a gay person".

Some disagree with being gay, and purposely try to offend gay people. This can be done several ways.
Physical bullying
Verbal bullying
       Name calling
       Using their label to describe unattractive things

              For example, say you hate Jewish people. This is just an example, don't get angry; you hate Jewish people. When you're in a
              situation cause by a specific item, you call it "Jewish", which I've actually heard quite a bit. "I can't ride my bike, it's being a
              Jew," or, "Stop being so Jewish and give me my stuff!". Your use of "Jew" as a negative adjective is caused by your hatred of
              Jews.

The point is, "gay" meaning "stupid" didn't come out of nowhere, it came out of hatred toward homosexuals. This makes people foolish, in my opinion, for saying 'gay' means 'stupid'.

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There is no denying we live in a world that does whatever we want. Morals? Ha! There are no such thing as "morals" when you're referring to the general public. Anyone can, and will, do whatever they want without judgement (except extreme things like crime).

Humanity can't agree on many things, but one thing we can agree on is that it's not your place to tell people how to act, despite if it's really right or wrong.

Read that last part again. "...despite if it's really right or wrong." That's the problem. That's the entire problem. E.g., I think we can collectively say that murder is bad. That's an opinion, right? It's not fact. Therefore, I can commit murder and say it's right. This is my problem with society.   We can't even decide what's right and what's wrong anymore.

Is that a bad thing? Yes, I believe it is. I think we need some public morals. E.g., I live in the south, and it's a public moral to open a door for a lady, and say yes ma'am and no ma'am, etc. That's a public moral. I see no problems with them, and they've made this god-forsaken city easier to live in. I don't think it would hurt a fly to say it's wrong to use "gay" as "stupid", but alas, people have no morals! And you can't force them on other people!

TLTR, CONCLUSION: It's not your place to tell people what's right and what's wrong, even if you're 100% right, like saying murder is wrong. That's an opinion.

Last edited by Tako (Sep 14 2011 5:27:21 pm)

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Yeah, well, you know that's just like, uh, your opinion, man.

Twipply

Guest

Re: Fruitmonster's rant.

The point is, "gay" meaning "stupid" didn't come out of nowhere, it came out of hatred toward homosexuals. This makes people foolish, in my opinion, for saying 'gay' means 'stupid'.

Nice post.   Yeah, I'd say gay meaning 'stupid' and such probably did come from a negative background, as if being gay is an insult and so on.   However accurate that may be, today things are different.   The context I think we're discussing is literally, the word gay being used as 'stupid' and the like.   It may have nasty origins, but it no longer is solely used in that way.

Tako

Member

From: Memphis, Tennessee, USA

Joined: 2015-08-10

Posts: 6,663

Website

Re: Fruitmonster's rant.

You don't think the background of a word should influence it's usage or meaning? At all?

Last edited by Tako (Sep 14 2011 5:55:24 pm)

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Yeah, well, you know that's just like, uh, your opinion, man.