Religion and its Impact

Tako · Before February 2015

I recently started taking a class on world history. Two days ago, in fact. Our first lesson was about the religion of the Sumerians. He began by saying that in those days, religion was a way to explain the nonexplainable. Why did the sun move across the sky? Utu carried the sun on his shoulders in his chariot - duh. And the moon? Nanna, the god of night and the underworld sailed among the stars in his canoe, pulling the moon behind him.

Although the population of Mesopotamian-religious people are close to extinct, 99% of religions that are alive today were built upon the same foundation described above: explaining the nonexplainable. These days, we know that the sun is not pulled across the sky by any god or goddess. We know that winds are not blown from the mouth of Enlil. And we know that water is not controlled by the god Enki.

My point of this post is to move on from parts of religion that try to explain the nonexplainable with false theories proven to be incorrect, like Jesus and gods living on Mount Olympus. God? He's fine.

Why? What's the harm?

Well, in Christianity, aside from telling children that it is possible to move mountains, pull matter out of nowhere and bring back those who are dead simply by having trust in an imaginary being, continuing to allow and disallow completely outrageous things is where I'd like to draw the line.

Seeing how Christianity is single-handedly the most populous religion on the Earth, I can't help but imagine the effects and its impact. Yes, it's always nice to have someone (well in this case, a book) to tell you right from wrong; when that source becomes corrupt and illogical, but still continues to influence every day decisions, it becomes a problem. Especially when world leaders like Obama, Benedict and several others use their source of moral intelligence to greatly influence their decisions.

So, how does religion impact society and the world today? Positive or negative? Examples?

Last edited by Tako (Jan 4 2012 4:42:28 pm)

D-rock2308 · Before February 2015

I'm not really sure as to what you want people to discuss about in this topic.

My point of this post is to move on from parts of religion that try to explain the nonexplainable with false theories proven to be incorrect, like Jesus and gods living on Mount Olympus.

Could you tell me how this theory was proven false?

Tako · Before February 2015

D-rock2308 wrote:

I'm not really sure as to what you want people to discuss about in this topic.

Just sharing my opinion. From you, the reader? Agree, disagree, share your views.

D-rock2308 wrote:

My point of this post is to move on from parts of religion that try to explain the nonexplainable with false theories proven to be incorrect, like Jesus and gods living on Mount Olympus.
Could you tell me how this theory was proven false?

Well, people have been to the top of mount olympus and have found a surprising lack of gods and prestigious temples. Jesus defied physics in numerous ways. If someone chooses to believe in that then that's a different story. That's like slapping logic in the face and running away :0

supadorf24 · Before February 2015

I love how willing Christians are to mock Greek mythology while their religion is no more backed up or sensical as others'.

Ratburntro44 · Before February 2015

I believe God was hired by the person who owns the computer simulation that is our universe.

xputnameherex · Before February 2015

Since when is Christianity based off of explaining natural phenomena???

TakoMan02 wrote:

Jesus living on Mount Olympus.

What???

TakoMan02 wrote:

Jesus defied physics in numerous ways.

Why don't people realize that that is what we believe in? He proved that he was the Messiah by defying the laws of physics

Last edited by xputnameherex (Jan 4 2012 6:14:55 pm)

Muffin · Before February 2015

^Um he still defied the laws of physics even if he did it to prove a point...

Btw how exactly did he disobey physics?

Ratburntro44 · Before February 2015

^By being the messiah, making him above physics. How do you think?

Zoey2070 · Before February 2015

'Cept that you cannot defy the laws of physics, period. No one can, no one ever will, so your arguement is invalid.

krubby · Before February 2015

BUH!? atheism is the best and worst belief system at the same time. On another note, I'm coming here more when I'm sober now, so expect me to act the same minus the god-awful grammar and sudden rages.

Ratburntro44 · Before February 2015

I'm not saying that it is true or not. Here is the logic:

1. Assume Christianity is true
2. Physics can be defied by godly figures
3. Jesus can defy physics
4. Jesus did defy physics

Or, you can follow this logic:

1. Assume all of physics is definite
2. You cannot deny the laws of physics
3. Jesus could not have done that stuff
4. Christianity is false

Essentially, if it is true, it can be true, and if it isn't true, it can't be true. Neither logical argument is particularly valid without much more extensive evidence.

As for what I believe:

1. The universe is a computer simulation
2. No AI or other object within it can defy the programmed physical laws, unless they possibly managed to hack into the universe
3. A user (possibly God or other Godly figures) could defy physics, as they are part of the entity that controls the physics
4. A god may or may not exist
5. It also follows that there likely exists infinite universes which are sequentially less complex

xputnameherex · Before February 2015

Ratburntro44 wrote:

I'm not saying that it is true or not. Here is the logic:
1. Assume Christianity is true
2. Physics can be defied by godly figures
3. Jesus can defy physics
4. Jesus did defy physics
Or, you can follow this logic:
1. Assume all of physics is definite
2. You cannot deny the laws of physics
3. Jesus could not have done that stuff
4. Christianity is false
Essentially, if it is true, it can be true, and if it isn't true, it can't be true. Neither logical argument is particularly valid without much more extensive evidence.

Thank you!

It is your belief that no one can defy the laws of physics, it is mine that God can!

Btw, Quantum Mechanics defy the laws of physics, so there. Hehe.

Muffin wrote:

Btw how exactly did he disobey physics?

Walked on Water.

Last edited by xputnameherex (Jan 4 2012 6:18:53 pm)

Koya · Before February 2015

It's called faith not fact.

Shift · Before February 2015

TakoMan02 wrote:

D-rock2308 wrote:
My point of this post is to move on from parts of religion that try to explain the nonexplainable with false theories proven to be incorrect, like Jesus and gods living on Mount Olympus.
Could you tell me how this theory was proven false?
Well, people have been to the top of mount olympus and have found a surprising lack of gods and prestigious temples. Jesus defied physics in numerous ways. If someone chooses to believe in that then that's a different story. That's like slapping logic in the face and running away :0

Okay, so your proof is the lack of proof? My teacher once said, "Myths aren't lies. They're just what people believed." Science is a religion, technically, since it is what so many people have decided to put their faith in. Science, Jesus, Zeus, Odin, Horus, Utu, etc are all equally valid.

Zoey2070 wrote:

'Cept that you cannot defy the laws of physics, period. No one can, no one ever will, so your arguement is invalid.

Lol you basically just said, "No, you're wrong, and I'm right. Therefore, you're wrong." See the issue there? It's impossible for an argument to invalid, even if it's proven false (which, might I add, you didn't do).

Koya · Before February 2015

I am a Christian but it matters not whether there is a God or not.
It's about the teachings, the bible may be proven it's a story - yet I will not care, that we should care for one another, that we treat others as we would want to be treated. All religions have the same bones just slightly different muscles.

Ratburntro44 · Before February 2015

^You put it well. Except for the loophole in my belief that someone could hack into the universe and make themselves essentially a god... that would be bad.

Maikel · Before February 2015

Ratburntro44 wrote:

^You put it well. Except for the loophole in my belief that someone could hack into the universe and make themselves essentially a god... that would be bad.

Definition of God: Omnipotent creator of our universe.

You're either Omnipotent, or your not. Plain and simple.

Ratburntro44 · Before February 2015

dictionary.com wrote:

essentially...
2.
pertaining to or constituting the essence of a thing.
God...
3.
( lowercase ) one of several deities, especially a male deity, presiding over some portion of worldly affairs.

2 can play at the dictionary lookup game.

Tako · Before February 2015

Concerning the Jesus miracles - here is my opinion:

1) I have a few questions for the Romans if they were so anxious to kill someone who can walk on water, feed thousands of people and make the blind see, the deceased live, etc. I mean, REALLY, why would you kill someone who could do such things.

2) Physical science is just what it says - physical science. Explanations of what goes on around us. Physical science has started long before Jesus. If Jesus did perform these mass coincidences or use these alien physics, they would be possible to duplicate. That is, if all this happened on our Earth and on our physics. Seeing how they are not possible to duplicate, I'd most likely say that he drugged his spectator or something similar with 'shrooms.

If we live in a universe where it is possible to walk on water, make the blind see, et al, then we also live in a universe where 2+2=fish. I choose not to believe that. You can. Some of you obviously have some different perspectives on his physical impossibilities, like saying things just happen because God says they should happen. Does not compute.

Which is beside the point. My point here is exactly what Supadorf24 said earlier. Most religions are explanations of the unexplainable. As science progress, and begins to explain these things with absolute certainty, you should forget these explanations that are not logical. Just like we throw ancient Mesopotamian polytheism on the shelf of impossibility, it's getting time we do the same for some parts of the Bible.

Ratburntro44 · Before February 2015

TakoMan02 wrote:

If Jesus did perform these mass coincidences or use these alien physics, they would be possible to duplicate.

I think that's about where you went wrong,

xputnameherex · Before February 2015

Squad wrote:

I am a Christian but it matters not whether there is a God or not.
It's about the teachings, the bible may be proven it's a story - yet I will not care, that we should care for one another, that we treat others as we would want to be treated. All religions have the same bones just slightly different muscles.

Wow. I liked that.

Ratburntro44 wrote:

TakoMan02 wrote:
If Jesus did perform these mass coincidences or use these alien physics, they would be possible to duplicate.
I think that's about where you went wrong,

Nope, he went wrong right about here:

TakoMan02 wrote:

here is my opinion:

Anyway TakoMan, you should really know about the Bible before you go ripping on it.

Chewy · Before February 2015

Why does everyone like to deal in absolutes when it comes to religion? Maybe Jesus was real. Maybe he didn't do any miracles and got a bunch of friends to write a book to troll people. Doesn't mean he wasn't real. But ehh. Pastafarian master race right here.

xputnameherex · Before February 2015

Chewy wrote:

Maybe he didn't do any miracles and got a bunch of friends to write a book to troll people

Troll was a very common term back then.

Occasionally when reading the Bible, you can still hear them singing, "TROLOLOLOLO"

Zoey2070 · Before February 2015

Shift wrote:

Zoey2070 wrote:
'Cept that you cannot defy the laws of physics, period. No one can, no one ever will, so your arguement is invalid.
Lol you basically just said, "No, you're wrong, and I'm right. Therefore, you're wrong." See the issue there? It's impossible for an argument to invalid, even if it's proven false (which, might I add, you didn't do).

I didn't feel like writing anything lengthy, sorry. I just really wanted to use 'your arguement is invalid'.

But you can't defy the laws of physics, just no. I personally can't explain how you can't, it's just, you can't. It's not possible. Plain and simple. It's just one of the given facts of life. Like how there's no such thing has magic in the sense of Harry Potter, and how you can't travel through time unless you go faster than light which isn't even possible because it doesn't make sense.

I (personally) can't even comprehend breaking physical laws. It's causing a BSOD in my brain.
And nothingishere2, I don't mean the actual written laws of physics, I mean the absolute truth of the universe whether we know it or not.

Earth gravity dictates that if you jump up you will be pulled towards Earth's core and stopped by the ground. No human being can jump up and not be pulled back down by gravity while standing on Earth while jumping with regular human legs and not super bionic legs that can have you jump out of orbit or something.
It's not possible. You simply can't do it. You can't walk on water without aide or turn water into wine in an instant with only your mind or whatever.

Also, here's something fun for you:
People lie. That is, the bible could be completely fabricated by a liar. I'm not saying it is, I'm just saying it's possible.

Tako · Before February 2015

nothingishere2 wrote:

TakoMan02 wrote:
Concerning the Jesus miracles - here is my opinion:
1) I have a few questions for the Romans if they were so anxious to kill someone who can walk on water, feed thousands of people and make the blind see, the deceased live, etc. I mean, REALLY, why would you kill someone who could do such things.
2) Physical science is just what it says - physical science. Explanations of what goes on around us. Physical science has started long before Jesus. If Jesus did perform these mass coincidences or use these alien physics, they would be possible to duplicate. That is, if all this happened on our Earth and on our physics. Seeing how they are not possible to duplicate, I'd most likely say that he drugged his spectator or something similar with 'shrooms.
If we live in a universe where it is possible to walk on water, make the blind see, et al, then we also live in a universe where 2+2=fish. I choose not to believe that. You can. Some of you obviously have some different perspectives on his physical impossibilities, like saying things just happen because God says they should happen. Does not compute.
Which is beside the point. My point here is exactly what Supadorf24 said earlier. Most religions are explanations of the unexplainable. As science progress, and begins to explain these things with absolute certainty, you should forget these explanations that are not logical. Just like we throw ancient Mesopotamian polytheism on the shelf of impossibility, it's getting time we do the same for some parts of the Bible.
Responses, this is kind of like a debate now right?
1.The Romans killed Jesus to prevent a Jewish uprising led by zealot extremist groups. They were using Jesus as an easy scapegoat to further their own agendas, but they had members of their group placed at key positions inside crowds to use a sort of peer pressure on the rest of it. Most humans aren't very loyal so they turned rather easily.
2.Firstly, that example shows natural science not physical science. Now my turn to play the dictionary game: Natural Science-a science or knowledge of objects or processes observable in nature, as biology or physics, as distinguished from the abstract or theoretical sciences, as mathematics or philosophy. Natural science is based on the abstract (apart from concrete reality) and theoretical (only hypothetical, as in only law until a better thing comes by) sciences. If you don't believe in his divinity, then I'll take a scientific approach. Perhaps Jesus was aware of other laws of nature that other humans had not and have yet to discover. This might sound insane, but let me make a little comparison: We had the extremely developed Romans who had many wonderful innovations, and then not soon after we fall into the dark ages where most of this was lost. What did we have after that? The Renaissance, where these things were rediscovered and improved. Knowing this and the fact that history generally repeats itself, could we be in a Dark Age at this very moment only awaiting a Renaissance to reintroduce ourselves to these physical laws that Jesus was aware of?
To answer some of your other statements, optometrists can make "blind" people see to an extent. If you're taking this information from the Bible, then we're talking about around 2000 years between now and then. Surely with that there is room for historical error. Maybe blind back then just meant really bad vision, like how the vikings thought solar eclipses meant the end of the world (something like that, but I haven't studied them in forever). So then in their perspective, we can definitely let the "blind" see.
(Don't mock me for answering this, I really didn't know what you meant by "2+2=fish") [2] male fish + [2] female fish = baby fish I just wanted to answer that, because I really liked that part in your debate. Finally the Bible really differs according to your religion. Technically the major parts are generally there, but different minor books are sometimes left out or included according to your faith.

> Did not read what was in green.
I would love to respond to what you wrote, it does seem quite well-thought-out. But then I would set this topic on a rail that goes into "did jesus really do these things", which is not what this is about at all. I'm not even taking into consideration that he did do these things, for my argument requires that we view Jesus's existence as if it never happened. Just like I'd talk about Egyptian, Greek and Sumerian polytheism. My final words about this subject are: None of us were there, so none of us can say what he did and what he didn't do. I'd like to stick in the topic of today: what science says and what religion says about the exact same things.

Re-read that. I really don't want to repeat it, but I know I will at one point in time.

Science today can explain (with absolute certainty) several explanations found in the Bible. Back in 30 AD, they had no idea where we came from. They produce the explanation - "we were created from God". Today, we prove this to be incorrect in several ways (before you say a word about the subject, I highly recommend you read a few wiki articles). They say the world is, what, 3000 years old? Science says otherwise. I'm sure the Bible also makes some other claims that are completely false, but to list them would be very time-intensive and I don't have the desire to.

Really, don't even try to say science is wrong. It's not about that. It's about absolute certainty - if you don't want to accept it than that's a personal problem. It's about absolute certainty and Christians refusing it. Why? I think it's about time we step into the 21st century. Make a new religion - everything the Bible preaches except for the impossible things. That would be grand.

Concerning the fish example, I was showing what the Bible thinks of scientific truth. 2+2 is not the word "fish", it is 4.

xputnameherex wrote:

Anyway TakoMan, you should really know about the Bible before you go ripping on it.

Lol, go to church for a total of 3 hours once per week, for the the last 17 years. I don't know who told you that I've never read the Bible, but whoever did is wrong. Read my first paragraph plo0x, for my readings of the Bible are moderately irrelevant. Moderately because all I need to know is the context in which the Bible makes claims about truth that has been proven otherwise. I don't need to know about Job, Moses, Saul; all I need to know is a specific event or a specific teaching.

Last edited by Tako (Jan 5 2012 3:30:50 pm)

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