General Philosophy Ranting and Debating

Tako · Before February 2015

ITT:
> Rant about anything intelligible. (Philosophy may not have been the best word)
> Debate with other members.

Rules:
> No flaming, spamming, or any other rule violation.
> Try extremely hard to avoid logical fallacies, like attacking other people's personality/intelligence. Read more on logical fallacies.
> Don't bring up stupid topics. Don't bring up topics that are facetious, rude, etc.
> For sake of keeping things interesting, if you want to bring up a new topic you must also reply to an existing topic.

This is also an extension of the misplaced debate on American patriotism.

Deetz · Before February 2015

Meh.

Y U No Sticky your own topic?

MFL · Before February 2015

Hey TakoMan02 and everyone else,

We already have a great discussion going on in this thread:
http://eeforumify.com/viewtopic.php?id=26079&p=5

This thread is somewhat redundant as a result. Could a mod please lock it? Thank you,

M.f.l.

Deetz · Before February 2015

That topic is technically only for Echo's rants and debates, but this one is for general ranting. So I say no, it's not redundant.
But who cares about my opinion?

Tako · Before February 2015

To be honest, I don't really care if it's an interesting topic. You can very easily settle it here, where it is welcome and relevant.

Echo has politely asked that you not derail his topic with discussions of alcoholism and patriotism.

His request has been recognized and enforced by Different55 and I, as it is moderate and reasonable. If you would like to post irrelevant discussions on that topic, you can also collect the proper amount of warnings - one for every irrelevant post.

MFL · Before February 2015

TakoMan02 wrote:

Etc.

Thank you for replying to my post TakoMan02,

Please head to http://eeforumify.com/viewtopic.php?id=26079&p=5 to continue our discussion of this topic.

Yours,

M
F
L

Deetz · Before February 2015

Okay, here's a debate.

Why do people say things like "I'm such an idiot" when they obviously aren't?

This has been nagging on me for a while.

(This doesn't mean jokingly, this is when people say it seriously, even when they know they're not)

treejoe4 · Before February 2015

Patriotism is one of worlds biggest cancer.

Discuss.

Zoey2070 · Before February 2015

Deetz wrote:

Okay, here's a debate.
Why do people say things like "I'm such an idiot" when they obviously aren't?
This has been nagging on me for a while.
(This doesn't mean jokingly, this is when people say it seriously, even when they know they're not)

Self-esteem issues, simply put. Low self-confidence. It's like how some people say 'oh my gawd im so ugly' even though they're not. Perhaps they don't know they're not ugly. Either could be interpreted as fishing for compliments but they could actually believe it despite knowing how ridiculous it is.

edited because i just realised that this is hard to read without capitalization

Last edited by Zoey2070 (Jan 3 2013 6:10:57 pm)

DK Levels · Before February 2015

Deetz wrote:

Okay, here's a debate.
Why do people say things like "I'm such an idiot" when they obviously aren't?
This has been nagging on me for a while.
(This doesn't mean jokingly, this is when people say it seriously, even when they know they're not)

Because when faced with self-judgement saying "I am smart" or "intelligent" makes other people think you're full of yourself so you're forced to downgrade yourself so people don't think you're a big headed arsehole. ^^ That's why.

Or like Zoey said they could be fishing for compliments.

Tako · Before February 2015

treejoe4 wrote:

Patriotism is one of worlds biggest cancer.
Discuss.

Well, I haven't given this subject much thought, but here are my two cents:

Is it wrong to have an audible preference over countries? Is it wrong to show loyalty?

People should be allowed to have a country preference and to show loyalty, but there is a limit. When patriotism becomes a dogmatic opinion, I feel it is an ignorance of other possibilities.

However, I have rarely seen someone with more patriotism than an American flag in their front yard. I hear an occasional compliment or admiration of our country's freedoms and systems and whatnot, but never to the point where they think America is the best and only successful country.

Have you actually seen that on the internet? I've seen quite the opposite on many occasions. By Americans, of course. Even intelligible Americans understand America isn't the best.

Deetz wrote:

Okay, here's a debate.
Why do people say things like "I'm such an idiot" when they obviously aren't?
This has been nagging on me for a while.
(This doesn't mean jokingly, this is when people say it seriously, even when they know they're not)

They probably mean temporally - a specific thing they did was idiotic.

Jeffburtonfan · Before February 2015

treejoe4 wrote:

Patriotism is one of worlds biggest cancer.
Discuss.

I never understood it neither. Especially the ones who dislike all other countries but their own.

I get that you might be happy that you're on one piece of land over another, but to worship it and hate others for being born on another piece of land just doesn't make sense to me.

treejoe4 · Before February 2015

The problem with patriotism today is that, it teaches ignorance. No country is actually free, and most, if not all countries are completely evil.

It also encourages people to stand up for their country when it doesn't care for them, I feel sorry for any joining the military.

Deetz · Before February 2015

Okay. Here's my say in this.

Nobody should hate a whole country, let's use North Korea as an example, as a lot of people "hate" this country.

They hate the government, not the country. There is a huge difference here. Hating a government is saying, "Okay, if maybe NK got a better leader, or maybe a good ol' fashioned democracy, then I'd probably like them better." Hating the whole country, "I hate everything about NK. I hate the geography, I hate the government, I hate the people, I hate the culture."

See the difference? People need to realize this difference instead of saying they hate the whole country instead of just the government.

Jeffburtonfan · Before February 2015

I was actually just going to post about people who join the military, as well. While the country might need them, those who are willing and believe that they are actually fighting for a country that cares are very badly misguided.

Different55 · Before February 2015

treejoe4 wrote:

The problem with patriotism today is that, it teaches ignorance. No country is actually free, and most, if not all countries are completely evil.
It also encourages people to stand up for their country when it doesn't care for them, I feel sorry for any joining the military.

Please back up your statements with facts.

i think actually free should be replaced with completely free. Right now I'm free to do anything i want inside the relatively few rules. the things that are illegal are things i wouldn't want to do anyway.

Deetz · Before February 2015

I agree, why not fight for Luxembourg or something? The only difference between the two (one being the one you were born in) is you weren't born in Luxembourg. No other (substantial) differences. You only fight for that country because you were born there.

treejoe4 · Before February 2015

Different55 wrote:

treejoe4 wrote:
The problem with patriotism today is that, it teaches ignorance. No country is actually free, and most, if not all countries are completely evil.
It also encourages people to stand up for their country when it doesn't care for them, I feel sorry for any joining the military.
Please back up your statements with facts.
i think actually free should be replaced with completely free. Right now I'm free to do anything i want inside the relatively few rules. the things that are illegal are things i wouldn't want to do anyway.

Free? You are not free!

Every government keeps its citizens ignorant, no one is truly free. The laws may prevent someone being murdered, but it takes away many freedoms. People can't even protest without being maced.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yt49DsfKDMc

Tako · Before February 2015

We have freedom of religion, speech, press, etc. Not all countries do. "Freedom" simply highlights the difference there.

It's not really freedom, just controlled by a selectively careless government.

Different55 · Before February 2015

treejoe4 wrote:

Different55 wrote:
treejoe4 wrote:
The problem with patriotism today is that, it teaches ignorance. No country is actually free, and most, if not all countries are completely evil.
It also encourages people to stand up for their country when it doesn't care for them, I feel sorry for any joining the military.
Please back up your statements with facts.
i think actually free should be replaced with completely free. Right now I'm free to do anything i want inside the relatively few rules. the things that are illegal are things i wouldn't want to do anyway.
Free? You are not free!
Every government keeps its citizens ignorant, no one is truly free. The laws may prevent someone being murdered, but it takes away many freedoms. People can't even protest without being maced.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yt49DsfKDMc

I've protested a couple times and i have yet to be maced

Legoking2000 · Before February 2015

Jeffburtonfan wrote:

I get that you might be happy that you're on one piece of land over another, but to worship it and hate others for being born on another piece of land just doesn't make sense to me.

Yes, why do we get do decide we are better than those that live on the same land, have the same chemical build-up, think the same, eat the same, etc.? Patriotism seems like putting a giant trophy in your front window; it is a way to say, "Hey. I'm better than you. And it feels good to say it."

Last edited by Ikaros (Jan 3 2013 8:28:16 pm)

treejoe4 · Before February 2015

Different55 wrote:

treejoe4 wrote:
Different55 wrote:
Please back up your statements with facts.
i think actually free should be replaced with completely free. Right now I'm free to do anything i want inside the relatively few rules. the things that are illegal are things i wouldn't want to do anyway.
Free? You are not free!
Every government keeps its citizens ignorant, no one is truly free. The laws may prevent someone being murdered, but it takes away many freedoms. People can't even protest without being maced.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yt49DsfKDMc
I've protested a couple times and i have yet to be maced

It's strange how you disagree with me when the evidence is right in front of you. For example, it's hard to vote for someone to be in power who isn't sponsored by corporations.

GKAbyss · Before February 2015

For all we know, we could simply be computers, we could even be a movie or videogame. This can be unsettling and in these cases our lives would be lies. However, in these cases there is nothing we can do but believe in the world. If we cannot trust our senses, we cannot trust or believe anything - the entire world is our senses. We must base our beliefs off of our experiences and senses no matter what.

Sorry

I agree that the problem in society is customs. Though somewhat off topic - I hear many people complain that religion is the problem, but only parts of some religions are detrimental to society, and there are many problems not rooted in religion. An example of this is shark finning which is extremely destructive and violent, but is prevalent within some asian cultures due to the association between high class and shark fin soup.

Last edited by GKAbyss (Jan 3 2013 10:42:16 pm)

Tako · Before February 2015

legoking2000 wrote:

Jeffburtonfan wrote:
I get that you might be happy that you're on one piece of land over another, but to worship it and hate others for being born on another piece of land just doesn't make sense to me.
Yes, why do we get do decide we are better than those that live on the same land, have the same chemical build-up, think the same, eat the same, etc.? Patriotism seems like putting a giant trophy in your front window; it is a way to say, "Hey. I'm better than you. And it feels good to say it."

Patriotism isn't necessarily being arrogant and conceited.

Like I said, I rarely see this type of patriotism. Not sure why it's a problem.

The actual cancer of society, in my opinion, would be simple traits and customs that are in almost every sense idiotic and antiprogressive. They are passed down from parent to child, only on occasion being disregarded. This only emulates what a malignant cell does - reproduces uncontrollably and cannot be destroyed easily, damaging society the longer it lives.

Conceited patriotism can be one of these, but this encompasses much more.

GKAbyss wrote:

[things]

Missing something? :>

> For sake of keeping things interesting, if you want to bring up a new topic you must also reply to an existing topic.

krubby · Before February 2015

treejoe is just selectively ignoring everything good for the much less common times bad things happen.

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