Taking Things Personally

treejoe4 · Before February 2015

Calicara wrote:

I actually like Atillas post. I think he means more along the lines of, well we can use Treejoes example earlier, The Nazis. During the holocaust there was a lot of propaganda surrounding the Jewish people's in particular, in fact there was an entire film, shown in German theaters, dedicated to proving why Jewish people are rats (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Eterna … 40_film%29). When Ignorance like that becomes pervasive in society I think it is time to speak up and make a change. There is no reason why someone should be alienated against for having their own beliefs.

The Jews were not alienated due to their beliefs, they were alienated as they were considered almost sub-human, and part of a Jewish conspiracy. Actual religion has little to do with it basically.

Calicara · Before February 2015

I'm going to request a lock for this topic for two reasons.
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1. All the most prominent posters on this topic are all self righteously +repping one another, (which doesn't really matter), but nevertheless I don't feel any posts on her are deserving of rep of any sort, and the fact that you are repping each is other is probably just your way of saying "we're all right, and Failgirl101 doesn't get it and never will."
(You guys put words in my mouth, so why not other way around?)
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2. There is nothing left to say that hasn't already been said. Seriously, of all 4 years I've been on this forum I've rarely gotten along with others and I probably never will. So have fun +repping each other for no apparent reason, and ganging up on me all the time for expressing my opinions.

XxAtillaxX · Before February 2015

Different55 wrote:

long text

It is respectful to treat people as intelligent adults. I respect people enough that I offer my argumentative points in order for them to fix their claims.
If someone is claiming the earth is flat, would it be respectful for you to let them make a fool of themselves spurting it about? No. I think not.
And I think you seem to be confused with the term 'respect'. It isn't based upon a negation-free attitude towards the individual.
There's a difference between refutation and argumentation. A calm and respectful debate is one without (or less) reason to be upset.
It's a learning process rather than individuals shouting at each-other at the top of their lungs.

Cyclone or Meredith · Before February 2015

Locked at OP request.

Cyclone or Meredith · Before February 2015

Reopened.

Calicara · Before February 2015

Why? I wanted this to be locked...

Different55 · Before February 2015

Because there were discussions in here other than your own and you shouldn't get to decide the fate of them all because you made the topic that led to those discussions. If you're done here with your conversations you can leave and let us continue ours.

XxAtillaxX wrote:

It is respectful to treat people as intelligent adults. I respect people enough that I offer my argumentative points in order for them to fix their claims.
If someone is claiming the earth is flat, would it be respectful for you to let them make a fool of themselves spurting it about? No. I think not.
And I think you seem to be confused with the term 'respect'. It isn't based upon a negation-free attitude towards the individual.
There's a difference between refutation and argumentation. A calm and respectful debate is one without (or less) reason to be upset.
It's a learning process rather than individuals shouting at each-other at the top of their lungs.

You quote my "long text" but then only actually reply to a sentence of it? >_>

There's a time and a place to prove people wrong, and the reason for that is because it's disrespectful, and the reason for that is because people get offended when they're proven wrong.

Atilla wrote:

And I think you seem to be confused with the term 'respect'. It isn't based upon a negation-free attitude towards the individual.

I understand that. I also understand that to be respectful towards someone is typically to defer to them. Proving them wrong, while almost always necessary, is usually not respectful. If it's for their own good like in your example, of course you should tell them. By preventing them from making a fool of themselves, you're showing respect for that person. That's not always the case, though.
I pretty much agree with the rest of your post, so...

THE END, about 10 paragraphs earlier than expected.

Calicara · Before February 2015

Well whatever. Have fun patting yourselves on the back. I thought about deleting the post, but I don't believe in deleting posts, it's cowardly. If I say it there's no point in trying to take it back.

Different55 · Before February 2015

Patting ourselves on the back? Are we talking about the same topic? I just went back and skimmed through the topic to make sure I was in the right place. While a lot of people voiced opinions contrary to yours, none of those people patted each other on the back.

Calicara · Before February 2015

I mean what's the point?

Last edited by Calicara (Feb 24 2014 4:45:18 pm)

Pyromaniac · Before February 2015

Shes talking about how I +repped treejoe because I agreed with his statement and thought that it was very well said. She is also talking about how I received a couple reps because of a post I made somewhere along the line. I don't think this is against forum rules...?

Also---I feel that I came across slightly silly in response to Atillas original post, as I didn't elaborate.
What I meant, is basically what D55 said. I don't think its rude to debate/disagree with someone, as long as that debate doesn't turn into what it did here, with both sides (myself included) losing their cool. My original problem was that people seem to think it is ok to openly attack someones beliefs, instead of calmly and politely informing them that you disagree. There are certain ways to go about a debate, and some ways that have been shown here are certainly not appropriate, at least in my opinion.

I think we can all agree that respect can obviously have many different meanings for different individuals. As long as you don't condescend, and treat the other like a intelligent person, it is definitely OK to disagree.

EDIT: I see failgirl provided us with visual aid. As I said, I repped treejoe and fdouu because I agreed with what they were saying. Apparently, as shown, so did many others.

Last edited by Pyromaniac (Feb 24 2014 4:50:09 pm)

Calicara · Before February 2015

I know reps aren't against forum rules, but it seems ridiculous to give out so many reps over this argument. Also, I am 100% positive, if my rep was on I'd have more -rep than all your +rep combined. Reputation is such a useless system.

Pyromaniac wrote:

My original problem was that people seem to think it is ok to openly attack someones beliefs, instead of calmly and politely informing them that you disagree. There are certain ways to go about a debate, and some ways that have been shown here are certainly not appropriate, at least in my opinion.

Ok, so tell me, is calmly approaching and logically talking to a hate group like the Westboro Baptist Church (sorry for the lack of a better example), gonna get them to stop being so bigoted? I think there are times when you need to use your loud voice, because explaining things in a calm manner does not always suit the situation.
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And other times there are people who are so ignorant in their ideas, that they will spread their false knowledge and believe that falsity to be true, I believe the expression would be like fools leading fools? Like Atilla said, what if someone is going around preaching that the earth is flat? And then when you politely tell them it's not, they still disagree with you? Then what? What if they keep preaching their falsities and people believe them? That's how most conflict and turmoil begins with rumors and uneducated opinions. It's time like those when I also think it's necessary to intervene in a more serious tone. Speaking calmly is good for teaching children and stuff, but when dealing with people with radical opinions you have to be radical right back, otherwise you'll be wasting your time.

Last edited by Calicara (Feb 24 2014 5:01:50 pm)

Pyromaniac · Before February 2015

The Westboro Baptist Crazy--I mean church is an extreme example. There are always exceptions to every basic rule. OF course, when it comes to them, you should smack them over the head with a good dose of common sense. Or not even give them any attention, except maybe an arrest warrant (people like that feed on attention). But they are not the other 99 percent of the earths population. I'm talking as a general rule, you should always approach someone as intelligent and treat them respectfully. You can still stand up for yourself and not go into attack mode, you know.
I also agree that it is ok to be radical to radical people. But BOTH sides should remember to be civil. Just because somebody is insane, doesn't mean you should be insane back. What does that accomplish?

Different55 · Before February 2015

Does my rep count as a pat on the back since it wasn't really related to the content of the post?

Why is rep still a thing, anyway? We could remove all of the drama caused by it and none of the useful stuff just by taking out the +/- aspect of it.

Calicara · Before February 2015

Different55 wrote:

Does my rep count as a pat on the back since it wasn't really related to the content of the post?
Why is rep still a thing, anyway? We could remove all of the drama caused by it and none of the useful stuff just by taking out the +/- aspect of it.

That's why I had you turn mine off. I hate having rep on, because it's ridiculous. I think if you appreciate someone you should just tell them in the post, otherwise don't say anything at all. Then you wouldn't have to worry about +/- rep wars, or forum rep trolls, or rep spam removal. I know this is getting a little off topic, but it just **** me that off that EVERY time I make a topic and someone posts in it to contradict me they ALWAYS get a rep. If I had my rep on, my rep would be in the garbage, because people just love to hate on my rep, that's why I don't bother with it to begin with. I have been on few forums besides EE, but none of them have rep. You either like someone or you don't, but using rep as a form of judgement is a terrible idea IMO. :/

Last edited by Calicara (Feb 24 2014 9:20:25 pm)

Different55 · Before February 2015

It wouldn't be too hard to turn rep into a sort of feedback/post comment system instead of a drama factory if one of the real admins liked the idea enough. Maybe they'd be willing to take it out completely.
As off-topicness goes, this should be okay since it transitioned smoothly from the original point of discussion to here. The forums would be a worse place if every thread was superglued to the original post. Off-topic is for (or if it isn't, it should be) abrupt thread hijacking.

N1KF · Before February 2015

I think the reputation system should be removed or changed. ~~It's bothersome having to +rep theHFnetwork every day~~ It would remove lots of drama, and everything would be simpler. I like the idea of the feedback/post comment system, as the only reason I keep my reputation on is so I can get ~~lots of +reps~~ feedback on my posts.

treejoe4 · Before February 2015

why is everyone writing big paragraphs

dragonranger · Before February 2015

treejoe4 wrote:

why is everyone writing big paragraphs

Because big paragraphs are what all the cool kids do now

Pyromaniac · Before February 2015

I never understood how the reps caused "drama". Ok that's not true, when I first joined the forum I cared hella lot about reps. But seriously. They are literally useless numbers. Its people that are immature and get upset over said numbers that cause the drama.
Now, I understand that said people might be a good reason to turn of reps. But don't do it because of this topic, or because I +repped someone because I thought their post was intelligent . That is ridiculous.
Admittedky people do rep people to be funny, as I do sometimes. But oh no, its still a little number on the screen that is no reason to be upset over.

Last edited by Pyromaniac (Feb 25 2014 6:25:51 am)

blizzard · Before February 2015

I dont know why this thread was made.You have the right to your opinion I have the right to mine.So what , a hater hates on you for not being a certain religion...they have that right...but as darkstar told me awhile ago...haters hate just keep on rolling.Everyone has the right to their own opinion and that's a fact.

skullz17 · Before February 2015

As long as you have a reason to +/- rep someone, it can't be useless, otherwise why did you waste your time doing it?

blizzard · Before February 2015

skullz16 wrote:

As long as you have a reason to +/- rep someone, it can't be useless, otherwise why did you waste your time doing it?

Agreed.But a bunch of people are flamers these days,like fdoou. But this forum is dead now (partly becuase of flamers(like fdoou) and spammers.This forum just ain't what it used to be.

Calicara · Before February 2015

skullz16 wrote:

As long as you have a reason to +/- rep someone, it can't be useless, otherwise why did you waste your time doing it?

People generally +rep when the read something in which is either hysterical or seemingly profound, though I doubt the latter is rare if at all existent on these forum. Therefore, why bother with the rep to begin with?
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First of all, reputation is built on this false assumption that he who was more rep is either more popular or intelligent than others. When really, there are plenty of ways in which to obtain rep that do not involve either, such as when beating a certain level and posting on the rooms topic or obtaining a rep from a forums game. However, I'd argue that rep has less to do with it's intended purpose, and more to do with post count. More posts = more rep, with the exception of those who have exceedingly large amounts of -rep, if you take out the -rep, you would probably see the correlation. The exception to this rule being Chewy. I mean, I'm not gonna go and collect data on the correlations of reps, but judging by my non logged in browsing, for the most part reputation has little to do with post content.
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So rep in it's totality doesn't really amount to anything, and often leads to conflict among players and rep trolls. Unhappy is he who unfairly gets a rep, I have so many, but that rep cannot be removed because it is, unfortunately, legitimate under the ToS of the EE forums. So then, if we take the assumption, though false, more rep means a better forumer, then would could assume less rep, or an overwhelmingly large amount of -rep means a bad forumer. This is not the case however. I'd take the example, Creature. While he does not have the best grammar, it's also important to know English isn't his first language. So when he has trouble getting his points across, people oft confuse him with that of a forum troll, that is not to say that he is, but we can't just assume that low reputation correlates with a bad player.
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As I have said before, I am positive if my rep was turned on, I'd have so many -reps from this topic, because often people do not agree with me. That is why I turned it off, because I don't care. If you want to know what I'm like then you could judge me by my posts. A judgement of a person is best made by examining them with your own perspective, compared to someone elses.

skullz17 · Before February 2015

You're right, rep isn't always a reliable way to indicate the quality of a forumer, but I don't think that makes it absolutely useless. It just means that it indicates something other than the quality of a forumer, which often depends on a lot of things, from whether they got a blue coin in your new level or not, to criticising a mistake they made in a forum game. The question is, does this happen enough to become a big problem that needs to be dealt with?
EDIT: I guess the decision has been made and rep is gone. I'd really like something like that comments idea though.

Last edited by skullz16 (Feb 25 2014 3:23:22 pm)

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