Stop the EDL!

Tachyonic · Before February 2015

http://antifascistnetwork.wordpress.com … -10th-may/

British rally going on in a town surprisingly close to me.

Basically it's people from Britain against the EDL, the EDL being people from Britain against foreigners' influence here.

Thoughts?

Last edited by Tachyonic (May 11 2014 6:40:08 am)

Cyclone or Meredith · Before February 2015

The EDL on paper have valid arguments and statements, however in practice they're a hugely racist organization that just antagonize people for no reason.

Generally they use their numbers as a threat to town authorities, it costs the average city/town £500,000 per protest, so they use the fee to bully authorities.

Before February 2015

I'll just wait until theditor or treejoe reply.

XxAtillaxX · Before February 2015

Foreigners in general aren't the problem in Britain, it's the Islamic extremists with their propositions and actions influenced by Sharia; a horrendous and widely intolerable religious act practised in their motherland.

Is this something that is attacking immigrants in general?
Islam is disgusting and there should be EVERY reason for the government to stop the flooding of these peoples.
If the governments do not act then I believe the people should fight back against it.

Last edited by XxAtillaxX (May 10 2014 10:46:54 am)

Cyclone or Meredith · Before February 2015

XxAtillaxX wrote:

Foreigners in general aren't the problem in Britain, it's the Islamic extremists with their propositions and actions influenced by Sharia; a horrendous and widely intolerable religious act practised in their motherland.
Is this something that is attacking immigrants in general?
Islam is disgusting and there should be EVERY reason for the government to stop the flooding of these peoples.
If the governments do not act then I believe the people should fight back against it.

I wouldn't say Islam is intrinsically bad, I would say Islam is used by extremists to justify their flawed views.

"Normal" Muslims know that Sharia law is out dates and invalid, however those extremists have some messed up notion that it is correct and should be imposed on everyone.

Also the EDL don't just persecute Muslims.

treejoe4 · Before February 2015

XxAtillaxX wrote:

Foreigners in general aren't the problem in Britain, it's the Islamic extremists with their propositions and actions influenced by Sharia; a horrendous and widely intolerable religious act practised in their motherland.
Is this something that is attacking immigrants in general?
Islam is disgusting and there should be EVERY reason for the government to stop the flooding of these peoples.
If the governments do not act then I believe the people should fight back against it.

You are right, but the EDL isn't a group of academic intellectuals, they are drunk skinheads who hate everything foreign. Everything the EDL do is counter-productive to the anti-Islamic movement, because they give hating the spread of Islamic rules a racist and bad image.

Awesomenessgood · Before February 2015

I would say extremist Muslims are not actually Muslims. They misinterpret verses of their bible and do things that are not allowed in Islam itself. Extremist "Muslims" just spoil the image of Islam. Since they do not follow what is said in their bible, I would consider that they technically lost their religion in doing so. Therefore, I would say these terrorists are not Muslims. Muslims are actually really nice people if you met some before.

Last edited by Awesomenessgood (May 11 2014 4:14:18 am)

XxAtillaxX · Before February 2015

Awesomenessgood wrote:

I would say extremist Muslims are not actually Muslims. They misinterpret verses of their bible and do things that are not allowed in Islam itself. Extremist "Muslims" just spoil the image of Islam. Since they do not follow what is said in their bible, I would consider that they technically lost their religion in doing so. Therefore, I would say these terrorists are not Muslims. Muslims are actually really nice people if you met some before.

Most religions advocate war and disgusting practices to very extreme degrees. This includes Islam.
So, just because they're doing wicked things does not exclude them from following that particular religion.

You can say anything is a misinterpretation, but doing so you ridicule the religion itself and are doing no good by being an apologist; which, in the modern age I'm glad to withhold the rights to ridicule - of which the vast religious denied for so very long; by killing of anyone who does not follow their doctrine.

Last edited by XxAtillaxX (May 11 2014 9:49:41 am)

Awesomenessgood · Before February 2015

XxAtillaxX wrote:

Awesomenessgood wrote:
I would say extremist Muslims are not actually Muslims. They misinterpret verses of their bible and do things that are not allowed in Islam itself. Extremist "Muslims" just spoil the image of Islam. Since they do not follow what is said in their bible, I would consider that they technically lost their religion in doing so. Therefore, I would say these terrorists are not Muslims. Muslims are actually really nice people if you met some before.
Most religions advocate war and disgusting practices to very extreme degrees. This includes Islam.
So, just because they're doing wicked things does not exclude them from following that particular religion.
You can say anything is a misinterpretation, but doing so you ridicule the religion itself and are doing no good by being an apologist; which, in the modern age I'm glad to withhold the rights to ridicule - of which the vast religious denied for so very long; by killing of anyone who does not follow their doctrine.

I'm Muslim.

So do you say that I am constantly practicing to start a war now and then? I am NOT being an apologist. What these terrorists have done "in the name of Islam" is unforgivable in my opinion. And how the heck is misinterpreting an act of ridiculing the religion?

As I've said before, these terrorists are a disgrace to Islam. They are not Muslims once they have done this act of terror, which is strictly against Islam. Its what the Quran says. I repeat again: technically, they are no longer Muslims.

To counter that website:
1)Their "in the name of Islam" is actually NOT.
2-9) These are not true. This website has obviously not done their research and therefore this website is not reliable.
10) Of course they would say that, but as I have mentioned before, They are not Muslims. They are a disgrace to their own God.

And of course, Muslims can get along with other religions. Just look at Singapore, a country with many different races and religions.

(This topic should just be locked due to the storm brewing)

Last edited by Awesomenessgood (May 11 2014 8:58:11 pm)

mrjawapa · Before February 2015

Sounds like the EDL is a lot like the KKK...

XxAtillaxX · Before February 2015

Awesomenessgood wrote:

I'm Muslim.
So do you say that I am constantly practicing to start a war now and then? I am NOT being an apologist. What these terrorists have done "in the name of Islam" is unforgivable in my opinion. And how the heck is misinterpreting an act of ridiculing the religion?
As I've said before, these terrorists are a disgrace to Islam. They are not Muslims once they have done this act of terror, which is strictly against Islam. Its what the Quran says. I repeat again: technically, they are no longer Muslims.
To counter that website:
1)Their "in the name of Islam" is actually NOT.
2-9) These are not true. This website has obviously not done their research and therefore this website is not reliable.
10) Of course they would say that, but as I have mentioned before, They are not Muslims. They are a disgrace to their own God.
And of course, Muslims can get along with other religions. Just look at Singapore, a country with many different races and religions.
(This topic should just be locked due to the storm brewing)

No. I did not state that all Muslims have intentions of war. The religion itself advocates violence and leads otherwise moral individuals to commit wicked and disgusting acts of violence of which I daren't describe on a child-friendly forum. This applies to many other religions as well, not just Islam.

You consider them not Muslims, and they consider you not Muslim for advocating them further. Are you completely oblivious to that kind of idiocy?

Just because a particular individual decides not to participate in a religious act does not mean that the religion itself does not support it.
You should learn more about the religion you claim to follow, otherwise you're perhaps "not Muslim".

It would be very incredulous to suggest otherwise, not to mention weak and pathetic -- though I expect it nonetheless.
I don't think it would be appropriate to lock topics out of fear for counterarguments.

Awesomenessgood · Before February 2015

Aaah... where do I start? I guess ill have to organise my counterarguements accordingly.

XxAtillaxX wrote:

No. I did not state that all Muslims have intentions of war. The religion itself advocates violence and leads otherwise moral individuals to commit wicked and disgusting acts of violence of which I daren't describe on a child-friendly forum. This applies to many other religions as well, not just Islam.

No. The religion does NOT advocate violence, (unless under certain circumstances like disobeying your parents orders to the extreme). ESPECIALLY rape or fatality. I'm sure many other religions also have the same point.

XxAtillaxX wrote:

You consider them not Muslims, and they consider you not Muslim for advocating them further. Are you completely oblivious to that kind of idiocy?

What? Now you're telling me that I don't know what is idiocity in Islam? It's you who doesn't. From what you said, it shows that you think that terrorism is supported by many religions, including Islam. Maybe some do. But I know Islam doesn't. Who says those terrorists don't see me as a Muslim? They probably do.

XxAtillaxX wrote:

Are you completely oblivious to that kind of idiocy?

I can't answer this question, because it's invalid. The above statement isn't true.

XxAtillaxX wrote:

Just because a particular individual decides not to participate in a religious act does not mean that the religion itself does not support it.
You should learn more about the religion you claim to follow, otherwise you're perhaps "not Muslim".

I have enough knowledge of the religion to know what is acceptable and forgivable and what is not. I assume you don't know much about the religion, even maybe know wrong and mislead facts about it. Maybe you should learn more (which you probably won't. Duh.).

And WOW the choice of words. "Claim to follow". Wow. The implication has left me DEEPLY offended.

XxAtillaxX wrote:

It would be very incredulous to suggest otherwise, not to mention weak and pathetic -- though I expect it nonetheless.

So I assume what I've said is "weak and pathetic"? Eh, I'm not surprised. After all, you're an admin and I'm just a normal forumer. Whatever I say would most probably be looked down on other forumers as I stand on a lower ranking than you. However, I'll just continue counterarguing what you throw at me to prove my points.

Last edited by Awesomenessgood (May 12 2014 5:45:40 am)

treejoe4 · Before February 2015

Typical, "Anyone who is against Islam should be silenced"

The difference between an Islamic terrorist and the average Muslim is that the terrorist takes every word of their religion as complete fact, and that they are the only rules. Technically according to religious rules, the terrorists are more Muslim than most. Same goes with most religions.

We are at the point of humanity where people are picking and choosing what rules to follow in religion and what to ignore. By doing this, it does not define the new type of religious person, this is the eroding and death of religion as it cannot survive the modern world. The quicker that happens the fewer radical idiots we see.

Anyone who tolerates Islam as whole in indirectly supporting future conflict, whatever your intentions are, there is an undeniable trend that wherever Islam spreads, war does, as well as the oppression of homosexuals, women and personal freedoms.

Awesomenessgood · Before February 2015

treejoe4 wrote:

Typical, "Anyone who is against Islam should be silenced"
The difference between an Islamic terrorist and the average Muslim is that the terrorist takes every word of" their religion as complete fact, and that they are the only rules. Technically according to religious rules, the terrorists are more Muslim than most. Same goes with most religions.
We are at the point of humanity where people are picking and choosing what rules to follow in religion and what to ignore. By doing this, it does not define the new type of religious person, this is the eroding and death of religion as it cannot survive the modern world. The quicker that happens the fewer radical idiots we see.

You just argued on your own point. "The difference between an Islamic terrorist and the average Muslim is that the terrorist takes every word of their religion as complete fact, and that they are the only rules." and "We are at the point of humanity where people are picking and choosing what rules to follow in religion and what to ignore.". This shows that religion is floating away. People just pick out excerpts of verses of their own Bible and combines OT with another and BAM. Suddenly they say "It is fine to hurt or kill others in my religion". This makes whatever they say FALSE.

treejoe4 wrote:

Anyone who tolerates Islam as whole in indirectly supporting future conflict, whatever your intentions are, there is an undeniable trend that wherever Islam spreads, war does, as well as the oppression of homosexuals, women and personal freedoms.

No. No. I VERY LARGELY disagree with this as ot is clearly false. These terrorists have succeeded in telling society that people of their religion bring terror to everyone.

Another point I want to bring up is: Why does society see mainly the negative things in people? Do you know that the many of the earliest scientists were Muslims? Of course not. Majority of society fear Muslims as terrorists.

Just look at our society on EE. I for one think that Mr Shoe and Benjaminsen did a really great job with those once-a-week updates. But many people despise it. Why? People are afraid of change. People then started hating on Mr Shoe because of the sudden change. Why can't society be more sympathetic? (I'm probably going to get assaulted on by saying this.)

treejoe4 · Before February 2015

The earliest scientists did originate in the middle east, for hundreds of years, they protected ancient work and even named the stars, but do you know what happened to this period of history? Islam destroyed it. Don't even argue with me on this one, it's historical fact.

People don't justify their extremism by piecing religious text together, they definition of a radical Muslim is someone who takes the religion literally.

You can't justify Islam, no matter how many Muslims do no wrong, they are still a dangerous percentage who threaten freedom. There is a reason why the middle east has some of the most underdeveloped areas of the planet.

Different55 · Before February 2015

Just... stop. None of you are going to get anywhere. Atilla, treejoe, you can't convince someone out of their religion, even if you think it's for their own good. Awesomenessgood, you're never going to convince them that any religion isn't inherently evil.

So just stop wasting your time already.

The Everybody Edits community is one composed of a variety of cultures, ages, languages, thoughts, and ideas. Please be respectful of your fellow players and don't forget that there is a human on the other end of the keyboard.

Cyclone or Meredith · Before February 2015

treejoe4 wrote:

The earliest scientists did orginate in the middle east, for hundreds of years, they protected ancient work and even named the stars, but do you know what happened to this period of history? Islam destroyed it. Don't even argue with me on this one, it's historical fact.
People don't justify their extremism by piecing religious text together, they definition of a radical Muslim is someone who takes the religion literally.
You can't justify Islam, no matter how many Muslims do no wrong, they are still a dangerous percentage who threaten freedom. There is a reason why the middle east has some of the most underdeveloped areas of the planet.

The current mathematical system and algebra was created by Muslims. It was written in Arabic and implemented across the middle east empire at the time. The ect it was used in some many different places means it was translated and spread across the world as visible today.

Islam did not "destroy" scientific work, if anything it enhanced it.

I'm not advocating the oppression or any such activities, just pointing out it's the small minority that take the religious texts and beliefs literally with no contextualisation. You have to take in mind that the text was written in an era that was oblivious to what we consider "human rights" but that does not detract from the fact that it may present a valid view on deity.

Just because a small amount of people abuse something does not mean it should be banned. Would you like cars to be banned because some people run over others?

Unfortunately in the case there is only so much I can say to present the counter narrative to Atilla and Treejoe.

Also lets talk about the crusades... lets eradicate Christianity because some people went out and used violence to spread their religion. Yes I know this was a long time ago but the point I'm trying to make it that all religions have extremists, it's just a "occupational hazard".

The Qur'an states that God does not not love violence "fasad".

I've not even started to mention that fact that the Qur'an was written in ancient Arabic meaning that very few people can read it thus resulting in different opinions on what words mean ergo interpretation.

Cyclone or Meredith · Before February 2015

awesomenessgood wrote:

No. The religion does NOT advocate violence, (unless under certain circumstances like disobeying your parents orders to the extreme). ESPECIALLY rape or fatality. I'm sure many other religions also have the same point.

After posting my narrative, I re-read your post. This quote is wrong. The religion does have many references to Jihad and war.

Mohammed had a, if not a few, child wife(ves). Ergo child exploitation.

XxAtillaxX · Before February 2015

Different55 wrote:

Just... stop. None of you are going to get anywhere. Atilla, treejoe, you can't convince someone out of their religion, even if you think it's for their own good. Awesomenessgood, you're never going to convince them that any religion isn't inherently evil.
So just stop wasting your time already.
The Everybody Edits community is one composed of a variety of cultures, ages, languages, thoughts, and ideas. Please be respectful of your fellow players and don't forget that there is a human on the other end of the keyboard.

There has been plenty of people that have been disillusioned and proposing that it's not possible is a very mislead thing to say in that regards.
I'm not trying to 'convince' Awesomenessgood out of religion, only noting what the religion teaches.

If he/she denies that, they are well out of their league by doing so and only prove their ignorance and idiocy by having faith (believing without proof) in such nonsense.
As for Awesomenessgood's amusing remarks,

When you deny that Islam does not promote violence you're disrespecting the religion itself by ridiculing it's propositions and you only make a larger fool of yourself by showing that you clearly have no clue about the religion you claim to follow. This applies to many other religions, like Christianity which Islam quite clearly ripped-off of. Again, you'll deny this without having researched it unbiased.

I do not care if that 'deeply' offends you. I do not act upon emotion like you; thereby I don't accept and follow blindly myths and legends from the mislead past generation.

Different55 · Before February 2015

I really don't care what you're trying to accomplish here. My 2 main points are these:

The Everybody Edits community is one composed of a variety of cultures, ages, languages, thoughts, and ideas. Please be respectful of your fellow players and don't forget that there is a human on the other end of the keyboard.

You're wasting your time trying to do whatever it is you're trying to accomplish in this argument. Whatever it is, it's not going to happen. The only possible outcome is resentment between everyone involved because this is an argument that can never have a winner. It's just a handful of people yelling at each other that the other side is idiotic/ignorant or uninformed/misinformed.

Last edited by Different55 (May 12 2014 10:21:04 am)

XxAtillaxX · Before February 2015

Different55 wrote:

I really don't care what you're trying to accomplish here. My 2 main points are these:
The Everybody Edits community is one composed of a variety of cultures, ages, languages, thoughts, and ideas. Please be respectful of your fellow players and don't forget that there is a human on the other end of the keyboard.
You're wasting your time trying to do whatever it is you're trying to accomplish in this argument. Whatever it is, it's not going to happen. The only possible outcome is resentment between everyone involved because this is an argument that can never have a winner. It's just a handful of people yelling at each other that the other side is idiotic/ignorant or uninformed/misinformed.

Respect is informing one another and not every argument is about having a winner. Nor do I resent anyone for their religious views.

If you do not care what anyone is trying to accomplish you put yourself in an ignorant stance by not evaluating the situation first. It's akin to authority metaphorically beating on innocent people. Take that into consideration.

Last edited by XxAtillaxX (May 12 2014 10:26:20 am)

Different55 · Before February 2015

Why don't you consider the possibility that you yourself might be wrong? Instead of seeking out anti-islam stuff, why don't you go investigate it yourself? You can't educate anyone if you yourself don't know what you're talking about. If you're looking for unbiased information on a subject so that you can base an opinion, you're not going to find that information in the hands of the people who would do anything to make that subject look bad. It's like asking the KKK for information on how black people affect the world. They're not going to have anything nice to say, are they? And it's likely that a good portion of their information is false.

I don't care what you're trying to accomplish because I don't feel the need to. You and tree are basically flaming Islam, and attacking a person's beliefs by simply stating that they're idiotic and nonsensical isn't going to get you any closer to your goal, if you even have one.

And it's not respectful to call someone's beliefs idiotic, nonsensical, or ignorant. If his belief was that the sun was actually a kumquat and he was going to a space seminar to give a speech on the subject, then it would be respectful to inform them. But it's not like that. In this day and age, it's okay to have religion. It's okay to not have religion. It's okay to think or do whatever you want as long as you're not directly harming anyone.

IT'S OKAY.

So calm down and quit attacking each other.

Last edited by Different55 (May 12 2014 11:00:49 am)

XxAtillaxX · Before February 2015

I do know what I'm talking about and I know my knowledgeable boundaries.
Instead of saying "Oh, you might be wrong! Therefore you probably are, so go investigate it!" how about you actually contribute by giving specific points.

Are you implying that I'm seeking out anti-Islamic information? In that case, you just insulted Awesome indirectly.
I've only based my points upon what Islam itself teaches.
Regardless of the individual nitpicks or not, it still exists. And therefore, it is unacceptable and needs either to be revised or discontinued for the sake of humanity's morales.

You're only going "Wahh! I don't feel the need to understand the situation but I don't want arguments!"

I respect people enough to inform them of their logical faults.
"It's okay to think or do whatever you want as long as you're not directly harming anyone."
I agree and if you actually did as well you wouldn't be telling us to shut up.

Different55 · Before February 2015

XxAtillaxX wrote:

I do know what I'm talking about and I know my knowledgeable boundaries.
Instead of saying "Oh, you might be wrong! Therefore you probably are, so go investigate it!" how about you actually contribute by giving specific points.

I'm not saying you probably are wrong, I'm saying that it looks like you're pulling all your information from sources that could be unreliable. If you want to inform someone, you better make sure you're not spreading misinformation.

Are you implying that I'm seeking out anti-Islamic information? In that case, you just insulted Awesome indirectly.

If you say so, dude.

I've only based my points upon what Islam itself teaches.

You've only shown sources from places that are potentiality unreliable. If you want to convince someone, show where that stuff actually appears in their religious texts.

Regardless of the individual nitpicks or not, it still exists. And therefore, it is unacceptable and needs either to be revised or discontinued for the sake of humanity's morales.

Whatever. I'm not getting into the main argument here.

You're only going "Wahh! I don't feel the need to understand the situation but I don't want arguments!

Could you, I don't know, grow up? This is a pointless argument and I don't see any point in continuing it. I don't need to drag myself into the argument and take a stance in order to say/see that.

I respect people enough to inform them of their logical faults.

I have yet to see any of that. Like I've said, all I see is bashing back and forth, mostly on yours and treejoe's side.

"It's okay to think or do whatever you want as long as you're not directly harming anyone."
I agree and if you actually did as well you wouldn't be telling us to shut up.

He's not hurting anyone. His ideas aren't hurting anyone. People who share some of his beliefs are. If you want to preach to someone about the inherent evil of Islam, why don't you go find a terrorist?

I'm going to say thia again: this argument is going nowhere.

XxAtillaxX · Before February 2015

You continually imply if not state that I'm attacking Awesome.
I'm attacking his beliefs and just because it's a religious belief does not mean it is invulnerable to scrutiny.

If all you're going to claim is that any source is unreliable then I have no need to talk to you, you're someone for whom I share no respect on an intellectual level.

Please grow up and stop getting offended when corrected.
I'm not asking for censorship nor am I going to tell someone to 'go find a terrorist'.

Official Everybody Edits Forums

#1 Before February 2015

Stop the EDL!

#2 Before February 2015

Re: Stop the EDL!

#3 Before February 2015

Re: Stop the EDL!

#4 Before February 2015

Re: Stop the EDL!

#5 Before February 2015

Re: Stop the EDL!

#6 Before February 2015

Re: Stop the EDL!

#7 Before February 2015

Re: Stop the EDL!

#8 Before February 2015

Re: Stop the EDL!

#9 Before February 2015

Re: Stop the EDL!

#10 Before February 2015

Re: Stop the EDL!

#11 Before February 2015

Re: Stop the EDL!

#12 Before February 2015

Re: Stop the EDL!

#13 Before February 2015

Re: Stop the EDL!

#14 Before February 2015

Re: Stop the EDL!

#15 Before February 2015

Re: Stop the EDL!

#16 Before February 2015

Re: Stop the EDL!

#17 Before February 2015

Re: Stop the EDL!

#18 Before February 2015

Re: Stop the EDL!

#19 Before February 2015

Re: Stop the EDL!

#20 Before February 2015

Re: Stop the EDL!

#21 Before February 2015

Re: Stop the EDL!

#22 Before February 2015

Re: Stop the EDL!

#23 Before February 2015

Re: Stop the EDL!

#24 Before February 2015

Re: Stop the EDL!

#25 Before February 2015

Re: Stop the EDL!

Board footer