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#26 Before February 2015
- Creature
- Member
- From: The Dark Web
- Joined: 2015-02-15
- Posts: 9,658
Re: WHAT IS 9 + !0
Do I really need to tell you the reason why the product of zero numbers is 1?
Take a product of n numbers. Now take away each of these numbers by dividing it by them. You are left with a product of 0 numbers after having divided the number by all of its factors. After dividing the number by its factors, the number you are left with is 1. 1 is the product of 0 factors.
Other ways of saying it: 1 is the multiplicative identity. 1 is the product of an empty set of numbers for the same reason 0 is the sum; 0 is the additive identity. This is also the same reason that any number exponentiated to 0 gives 1.
0! is not 0 at all, and this is for very good reasons that are not very complicated.
For me a blank space will never be 1.
Also, !0 is 0, because ! without number in left doesn't count. 9+0=9.
This is a false statement.
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#27 Before February 2015
- Anch
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- Joined: 2015-02-16
- Posts: 5,447
Re: WHAT IS 9 + !0
! basically means to multiply the number by the numbers before it (besides 0)
Like !5 = 5 x 4 x 3 x 2 x 1
20 x 3 x 2 x 1
60 x 2 x 1
120 x 1
120
I thin
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#28 Before February 2015
- GKAbyss
- Guest
Re: WHAT IS 9 + !0
@ creature just a number of posts ago you said !0 = 0!
I still do not know what !0 is, and if it is the same as 0!.
Someone please explain this
#29 Before February 2015
- Ratburntro44
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- Joined: 1970-01-01
- Posts: 1,383
- Website
Re: WHAT IS 9 + !0
!0 is almost certainly just a typo in this case and not actually what was meant to be there. Regardless, 0! is most definitely wrong, and claiming it cannot be is simply willful ignorance of mathematics.
(If you do want to waste time by taking the !0 literally, it would most likely indicate the subfactorial of 0, which is also 1, giving 9+!0=10.)
http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=9%2B%210
http://mathworld.wolfram.com/Subfactorial.html
Last edited by Ratburntro44 (Dec 17 2014 3:15:46 pm)
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#30 Before February 2015
- Anch
- Member
- Joined: 2015-02-16
- Posts: 5,447
Re: WHAT IS 9 + !0
Oops I meant 5! not !5
Wait what
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#31 Before February 2015
- Creature
- Member
- From: The Dark Web
- Joined: 2015-02-15
- Posts: 9,658
Re: WHAT IS 9 + !0
Its 9, unless Killer meant 0!
This is a false statement.
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#32 Before February 2015
- killeratz
- Guest
Re: WHAT IS 9 + !0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t97R3jxbl6E
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsp18UOLveU
please take a moment of silence and a bit of your time to view this video ^
according to forcesniper, this kid is missing cuz he feels stupidly embarrassed so now the po po's are looking for him
R.I.P in Pieces 
#33 Before February 2015
- Stagecrew
- Member
- Joined: 2015-02-15
- Posts: 289
Re: WHAT IS 9 + !0
Creature, I just can't let you think 0!=0. It hurts me.
First of all, I think this misconception is coming from thinking of n! as "multiply n by all the numbers before it" so you assume that when n=0, we are multiplying 0 by something and so it is 0. If we were to define n! formally, the actual definition would be something like this recurrence
n! = (n-1)!*n if n>0 OR 1 if n=0.
Notice that 0!=1 is actually part of the definition. Why? Because if we have no starting point, then we can say n! is anything because if we change 0! we change n!. For example, if we say 0!=0, following this recurrence 1!=0, 2!=0, and n!=0 for all natural numbers n. I hope this explains to you why we need to set a fixed value for 0!, which we decided to make 1.
But why 1? The most common occurrence of factorial notation is when we are counting the number of ways to permute a set of n distinct objects. (arrange n different objects) If we think of it this way, then 0! would need to be one because there is only one way to have no objects. (Think about it - can I have nothing in multiple ways? I certainly can have nothing, so that's at least 1 way.)
Hopefully this makes sense to you.
As a side note, !n does have a mathematical meaning: it is the number of derangements of a set of n distinct objects, or the number of arrangements such that no object is in its original position. In this case, !0 is 1. (This is more difficult to explain, but it is true)
Last edited by Stagecrew (Dec 17 2014 4:14:35 pm)
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#34 Before February 2015
- Different55
- Forum Admin
- Joined: 2015-02-07
- Posts: 16,575
Re: WHAT IS 9 + !0
No what are you guys doing?
Why couldn't you guys just say 21?
"Sometimes failing a leap of faith is better than inching forward"
- ShinsukeIto
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#35 Before February 2015
- dragonranger
- Member
- Joined: 2015-03-21
- Posts: 1,162
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#36 Before February 2015
- Betaguy
- Guest
Re: WHAT IS 9 + !0
No what are you guys doing?
Why couldn't you guys just say 21?
Either 34, 69, or 1337 would have be fine to me, but noooo...
#37 Before February 2015
- Pingohits
- Banned
- From: aids lizard
- Joined: 2015-02-15
- Posts: 7,591
Re: WHAT IS 9 + !0
he probably pressed shift while typing "1". I think he meant to say "WHAT IS 9 + 10", but just pressed shift on "1", which turns it into "!".
btw its 19 idc about that vine crap
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#38 Before February 2015
- Different55
- Forum Admin
- Joined: 2015-02-07
- Posts: 16,575
Re: WHAT IS 9 + !0
he probably pressed shift while typing "1". I think he meant to say "WHAT IS 9 + 10", but just pressed shift on "1", which turns it into "!".
btw its 19 idc about that vine crap
You should probably be going now.
"Sometimes failing a leap of faith is better than inching forward"
- ShinsukeIto
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#39 Before February 2015
- Bimps
- Member
- Joined: 2015-02-08
- Posts: 5,067
Re: WHAT IS 9 + !0
hey remember that part where my post exists
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#40 Before February 2015
- Pingohits
- Banned
- From: aids lizard
- Joined: 2015-02-15
- Posts: 7,591
Re: WHAT IS 9 + !0
hey remember that part where my post exists
i just found it im sorry i never noticed
ha im not sorry
nobody is ever sorry
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#41 Before February 2015
- Ratburntro44
- Member
- Joined: 1970-01-01
- Posts: 1,383
- Website
Re: WHAT IS 9 + !0
Creature, I just can't let you think 0!=0. It hurts me.
First of all, I think this misconception is coming from thinking of n! as "multiply n by all the numbers before it" so you assume that when n=0, we are multiplying 0 by something and so it is 0. If we were to define n! formally, the actual definition would be something like this recurrence
n! = (n-1)!*n if n>0 OR 1 if n=0.
Notice that 0!=1 is actually part of the definition. Why? Because if we have no starting point, then we can say n! is anything because if we change 0! we change n!. For example, if we say 0!=0, following this recurrence 1!=0, 2!=0, and n!=0 for all natural numbers n. I hope this explains to you why we need to set a fixed value for 0!, which we decided to make 1.
But why 1? The most common occurrence of factorial notation is when we are counting the number of ways to permute a set of n distinct objects. (arrange n different objects) If we think of it this way, then 0! would need to be one because there is only one way to have no objects. (Think about it - can I have nothing in multiple ways? I certainly can have nothing, so that's at least 1 way.)
Hopefully this makes sense to you.
As a side note, !n does have a mathematical meaning: it is the number of derangements of a set of n distinct objects, or the number of arrangements such that no object is in its original position. In this case, !0 is 1. (This is more difficult to explain, but it is true)
Thank you.
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#42 Before February 2015
- Bimps
- Member
- Joined: 2015-02-08
- Posts: 5,067
Re: WHAT IS 9 + !0
why is this is general discussion
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#43 Before February 2015
- Creature
- Member
- From: The Dark Web
- Joined: 2015-02-15
- Posts: 9,658
Re: WHAT IS 9 + !0
why is this is general discussion
Its EE math competition.
This is a false statement.
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#45 Before February 2015
- Bimps
- Member
- Joined: 2015-02-08
- Posts: 5,067
Re: WHAT IS 9 + !0
Bimps wrote:why is this is general discussion
Its EE math competition.
i hate you
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#46 Before February 2015
- Different55
- Forum Admin
- Joined: 2015-02-07
- Posts: 16,575
Re: WHAT IS 9 + !0
There, I moved it. Happy?
"Sometimes failing a leap of faith is better than inching forward"
- ShinsukeIto
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#48 Before February 2015
- Kangxp
- Member
- From: Ponyville, Equestria
- Joined: 2015-02-24
- Posts: 587
Re: WHAT IS 9 + !0
I know what is 0! but I don't know what is !0.
Anyonepony explain?
My answer now is 9 as I don't konw what is !0.
possible other answers: 19, 10
derp
go watch mlp
everyone will be proud of u
just search "mlp sweep"
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#49 Before February 2015
- skullz17
- Member
- Joined: 2015-02-15
- Posts: 6,699
Re: WHAT IS 9 + !0
what is this topic for, to prove we live on the same planet?
thx for sig bobithan
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#50 Before February 2015
- nathskiix7811
- Member
- From: uk
- Joined: 2015-03-08
- Posts: 87
Re: WHAT IS 9 + !0
IT'S 21, OF COURSE
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