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Nuclear Gandhi

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Joined: 2022-08-18

Posts: 121

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

Minimania, give me some feedback of what you think of my response to your question plz

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“I like nonsense, it wakes up the brain cells. Fantasy is a necessary ingredient in living.”

- Dr. Seuss

Nuclear Gandhi

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Joined: 2022-08-18

Posts: 121

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

i guess i will ask if voting on day 1 is normal or helpful?

i haven’t played mafia in probably a year or two but voting on day 1 with no information seems like you have a better chance of random lynching someone from town than actually getting the mafia. is d1 not just for introductions and getting reads?

serious question lol correct me if i’m wrong

It is my understanding that Norwee's idea for the setup of this game was to make something with relatively few power roles in order to turn this game into a social deduction game instead of mechacnical solving game. (which I understand is what this site is used to playing?)
If we believe in Norwee's capabiltiy as a setup creator, then perhaps having their intent in mind we should assume that town don't have a lot of tools available to them other than Vote and Social Deduction?

Chances are, with a limited tool kit not using the tools available makes you less likely to win if you're a member of Town.
Day 1, just like any other Day phase, is TIME. Wasting that time, not using it is intrinsically not useful.
What's more, Town's win condition can be ONLY achieved with voting.

You're asking about voting on Day1 specifically though, so I assume you thoughts process goes something like this:

Premise 1 - There are more townies than mafia at the start of the game, therefore on day 1, if we random eliminate there is a higher chance of eliminating a townie than mafia.
Premise 2 - We do not want to eliminate a townie.
Conclusion - Therefore, we should not eliminate on day 1.

or

Premise A - We do not want to risk getting a townie eliminated.
Premise B - We should wait for night 1 to past, and hope that we can gain some information from that.
Conclusion - This is the safest approach as we do not accidentally eliminate a townie, and we will gain information after night 1.

Premise 1 - Assumes all votes are random. If everyone participated in the social deduction side of the game, then it wouldn't be random anymore. As I understand, that was Norwee's intention with this game.
Premise 2 - True. But in most setups - skipping a day by Voting for No Elimination means town can afford 1 less miss-elimination in the long run, so over the course of the game they end up having to be more precise with their only win condition which is their vote. So somehow funnily this premise gravitates towards the opposite conclusion.
Premise A - And yet the risk is a necassity. If Norwee created this setup in accordance to their originally claimed intent in mind, then this game is all about landing on the correct votes through social deduction.
Premise B - That's hoping the host failed to design this game as they wanted. Which is not a realistic hope given that all they needed to do was to add very few power roles to the game. I'd argue we'd get much more information out of people's voting patterns, you know, the social deduction part of the game.

Day one is one of the most important days in a mafia game. Main goal of town players during d1 is to scumhunt, and more importantly get discussions going. You can't decide if someone's actions are protown if aren't making any actions so you should try get everyone involved in both discussions and votings.

tl;dr
It's silly to play/hope for mechanical solving as the main strategy when the host claimed the intention to host a setup which requires social deduction to win. Not voting Day1 means you must vote more accurately in the game overall while also having less information to work with due to no voting patterns to analyze.

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“I like nonsense, it wakes up the brain cells. Fantasy is a necessary ingredient in living.”

- Dr. Seuss

Nuclear Gandhi

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Joined: 2022-08-18

Posts: 121

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

I see reads lists 100 posts into the game.
I'm not used seeing reads lists 100 into the game.
I myself rarely ever do reads lists, I'm more of a 1 vote at a time while posting thoughts as they come type of guy.

I foresee a no-lynch, and this saddens me infinitely.

I hope not. That'd be an infinitely -EV play.
But seeing as we are required to reach a majority vote in order to eliminate anyone at all, I'd say you're right.

I'll read the game later in the evening to decided on a vote and give any thoughts I might have along the way. But I'm pretty sure eliminating just any inactive slot on Day1 is as good as we can hope to get; you don't want to get in a situation where the final 5, or something, are mostly slots who barely play when you can remove them from the equation and increase the chances of future decisions being correct.

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“I like nonsense, it wakes up the brain cells. Fantasy is a necessary ingredient in living.”

- Dr. Seuss

Nuclear Gandhi

Member

Joined: 2022-08-18

Posts: 121

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

I want to go through a quick process of elimination to see whom I'm more ok to vote for elimination for Day1.

First 3 names I want to cross out are more principle based: Big Bon Jovi, Grilyon2, Lumi.
BBJ and Grilyon2 have never played before.
Lumi posted a "slank cover" in their signup.
It might not be to the likings of everyone, but those are not players I wish to Day1 eliminate for being inactive.

Marshmallow Marshall is the towniest player in this game as far as I'm concerned so far. Is the most active in the scumhunting process of the game + his progression in the game looks so linear and smooth to me. One thing that I did not understand and looked a little strange to me though was the question/conclusion at the end of #90. As Elijah said: "The vote on MM was the joke not buzzerbee"

Pqwerty is 2nd only to MM when it comes to active scumhunting (as opposed to passive scumhunting: providing observations and ideas from the side lines), and that's something that this game is lacking a bit. Just to be clear, I don't think of their ISO as clearing. They're more active hunting than most of us this game, but I don't think it's much for FM in general.

For me, 2b55b5g and BuzzerBee both hold the gold medal in providing unique and solid ideas in their reads lists. 2b55 has the highest post count at the present of the players in this list but I find more of their takes or actions disagreeable, so in my mind brain they share a spot with BB who's content is I think 1 reads list. Go figure ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

AllenCaspe9510, I just find their reads list extremely based lol. I love it. I can see others wouldn't, but to me it's just so pure if that makes any sense?

To be yet decided

Minimania
Why I want to put Minimania in the list above:
1) They didn't know there's no third party. Possibly a town slip.
2) They at least have the minimal appearance of wolfhunting, which is more than I see in the players below.
Why I want to put Minimania in the list below:
1) Initially when Pqwerty called Minimania fillery - I agreed with that take. Minimania's reaction to what Pqwerty said was overly OMGUS, which was also the first post that didn't look like filler anymore. They immediatly took their OMGUS vote back with "Oh, yeah you know what, that's entirely fair." the moment Pqwerty said something like "I just wanted to see you talk". Granted, that's also when Minimania learned there's no third party in the game - which was what they accused Pqwerty of. But other than the slight sus on me and Lumi, that reaction was the only time it felt like a real participation in the game from them.
To adress the defense of Minimania: that there are way less active players so why aren't their posts called "fillers". The difference is - the posts of those other's aren't even trying to look like contributing, whereas the early Minimania's posts, they look more showy than of actual use.

ShadowsEdge
Other than commenting on general things like voting day1 or assuming optimal play, shadowedge has commented 3 things:
-My focus on myself is towny.
-Pqwerty's role claim is towny.
-Grilyon's passiveness is off-putting.
It feels more genuine than Minimania, but is still lacking and easily fakable.

Players I've in PoE
Onjit is posting, but isn't participating in the game. Someone said that's normal for them. Fair, voting there would be more random than anything, but eliminating such a slot can be only good for Town. To be fair, the same could be said about the 2 new players and Lumi - so there's something to be said about there not being enough room for policy eliminations like that.

I seen people say good words about ElijahBaley voting Marshmallow Marshall in their opening post. Trust me, you probably see that 90% of the games they're both in. With that in mind, can someone show me signs of interest in scumhunting/gamesolving by Elijah outside of the early vote on Bee?
The only other thing of interest to him was: not voting anti town role for being an anti town role. Ok, there was also the "Townie post but that doesn't really mean anything IMO. Easy to make townie posts, especially early game. Will be you waiting for hear more from you." post if you stretch it - but that's kinda filler.
Look at posts from 2b55 or Marshmallow or Pqwerty, then open Elijah's ISO to compare. Can someone genuinly tell me they see intent to scumhunt in there?

!vote Elijah

---

“I like nonsense, it wakes up the brain cells. Fantasy is a necessary ingredient in living.”

- Dr. Seuss

Nuclear Gandhi

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Joined: 2022-08-18

Posts: 121

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

also, it isn't true that I wasn't scum hunting, I was. you can look at the posts I made regarding MM and see I had the intent to scum hunt.

When in #75 you called MM towny, but didn't call anyone else towny.
When in page2 you didn't show signs of being interested in solving 2b55, when by comparison she wants to solve you.
When in #52 your interest is in a anti-town claim, you first game interest in a time. (previous page your interest was in statistics)
When in page3 and page4 your interest is in commenting to things related to things said about you, with the exception of that 1 filler looking post about MM.
That I'm so Town post #83.
You had no post page5, but the only post page6 is again commenting on things said said about you.
Now we're here, page 7. But I look at your past and instinctively it feels like an interest in scumhunting is shown in a single digit percentile of your posts.

---

“I like nonsense, it wakes up the brain cells. Fantasy is a necessary ingredient in living.”

- Dr. Seuss

Nuclear Gandhi

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Joined: 2022-08-18

Posts: 121

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

@Marshmallow Marshall
@Nuclear Gandhi

How do you two know ElijahBaley?

Do I know ElijahBaley under some other name?

That'd be Oberon. Maybe.. he had other names as well.
Imagine you thinking we're in cahoots with the Elijah who's the only player that has played in MU Champs on illegal hydras multiple years in a row
This's not him.

Grilyon2 is town as well, he town-slipped here:

Missed that. Though I wouldn't hold much stock into it, it's 48h in the game and that's their first serious post (other than 1 sentence about Elijah). Could be coached from wolf chat.

By comparison, where minimania showed they think there there's a 3p - that's a more realistic slip due to it happening in a heated moment. What did you make of that slip btw? (Assuming you didn't comment on it)

Nuclear Gandhi is polarized

And just in his town meta. Like, literal shield this slot all the way until F3 town meta. EZ read

This can't be objective.
Even I don't know how I'd be as wolf once I finally will get it.

Be back a bit later.
I'll probably vote minimania for the hopes of any elimination though.

---

“I like nonsense, it wakes up the brain cells. Fantasy is a necessary ingredient in living.”

- Dr. Seuss

Nuclear Gandhi

Member

Joined: 2022-08-18

Posts: 121

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

Grilyon also pings my scumdar for calling me out for 'voting with little info'

I think I'd usually agree with this take, but it's impossible to tell what's going on in the mind of a new player, so I don't.

since we’re nearing the day i would like to hear who people’s main suspicion is for scum. i know it’s tough to get reads on day 1 but i think it would be helpful for everyone to give one scumread instead of being so wishy washy.

your read probably won’t be right and that’s okay, it’s just helpful information to go off, especially on future days in the game it will be useful to look back to what people said on day 1

No idea honestly.

What the heck

Majority only?

Cringe

I really wish I randed wolf, majority elimination in an inactive game is just a recipe for town getting snowed.

I hard claim Vanilla Town. If wolves want to get rid of me they'll have to do it knowing that they're letting all the power roles in the game do their things.

mood
also, lol

As for now though, the reads thus far feel odd, they tread this line of providing enough information while also doing nothing to move the game forward. Basically all the reads thus far have felt like just a way to seem more towny.

This might be a culture clash given that this site usually skips day1 and solves games mechanically, but it'd be nice if you respected the process. Games need to rise off the ground with flimsy takes and reads and start.

Ozy and MM need to deliver on Elijah's past though, or Elijah could do it if they see this post before either of those two do.

ngl, I have actual no idea how to read him, I don't remember any consistency in his playstyle, so I read him as just any random player for the most part.

Hey Lumi, why are you claiming vt?

So I don't get night killed, lmao

Yeah but like, no one prompted you to claim and no one is voting for you. If you’re actually a VT you made it easier for the mafia to hunt for PRs and if you’re a VT it’s way better that you get nightkilled than a PR, unless in like the next 12 hours you become the town leader.

This just pings me as weird.

All I'm gonna say is, if I'm wolf this game, it don't matter what Lumi claims - they die, lol.

!vote AllenCaspe9510

Time to kill a woof

Not feeling the need to expand on that is a good look imho.

I think Allen gave a bunch of mediocre reads and then went back to lurking. Historically, he’s an easy D1 mischop. I don’t see Allen as the criminal mastermind yet

What about future days though? If Allen is a easy mischop for the duration of the game, still better to chop them day1 than chop nobody day1.

Elijah should not happen today, if you scumread minimania though, that's a good place to vote

Explain please?
About Elijah, you gave nothing other than "their entrance seem they're happy to play" - an entrance which's similar to their every game entrance: say something random and vote MM.

also, it isn't true that I wasn't scum hunting, I was. you can look at the posts I made regarding MM and see I had the intent to scum hunt.

When in #75 you called MM towny, but didn't call anyone else towny.
When in page2 you didn't show signs of being interested in solving 2b55, when by comparison she wants to solve you.
When in #52 your interest is in a anti-town claim, you first game interest in a time. (previous page your interest was in statistics)
When in page3 and page4 your interest is in commenting to things related to things said about you, with the exception of that 1 filler looking post about MM.
That I'm so Town post #83.
You had no post page5, but the only post page6 is again commenting on things said said about you.
Now we're here, page 7. But I look at your past and instinctively it feels like an interest in scumhunting is shown in a single digit percentile of your posts.

it does not have to be present in more than that - I don't try to force reads like you guys do. if something feels scummy to me I call it out as scummy. I don't try to make up some weird complicated story as to why someone is scum, I only call someone scum (or town) if I'm sure they are. numbers don't mean anything.

That's fair. But no reads on me, no reads on 2b55 in all that time. Only MM and BB, which looked more like joke posts ftr. It's not as easy to believe you had no reads or thoughts worth mentioning in 150 posts.
You're like a living breathing INTP meme xD

Also, you can't say I'm OMGUSSING you when you've made no read on me.

I didn't think I had to actually come out and say this but I was mostly sus of Pqwerty because I thought he was bating us as a Serial Killer. I'm not sus on him anymore at all, besides the base level sus I have for everyone.

the focus on serial killer can come from Mafia, nobody else is sitting here hunting for some neutral killer apart from Minimania. sus much?

I'm even going to go further than that and suggest that they could be traitor, traitor has no teammates and can easily die to Serial Killer

What do you think of the idea that a Mafia is more likely to be aware of there being no 3rd party?

/short break
!vote Allen

---

“I like nonsense, it wakes up the brain cells. Fantasy is a necessary ingredient in living.”

- Dr. Seuss

Nuclear Gandhi

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Joined: 2022-08-18

Posts: 121

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

Ftr, I skipped that Elijah/minimania interaction because I don't believe there's anything of interest, correct me if I'm mistaken

---

“I like nonsense, it wakes up the brain cells. Fantasy is a necessary ingredient in living.”

- Dr. Seuss

Nuclear Gandhi

Member

Joined: 2022-08-18

Posts: 121

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

[3] Not voting: Onjit, AllenCaspe9510, Big Bon Jovi

Surprise to absolutely nobody,
they should honestly be the PoE just for this. Even Grilyon has voted..

---

“I like nonsense, it wakes up the brain cells. Fantasy is a necessary ingredient in living.”

- Dr. Seuss

Nuclear Gandhi

Member

Joined: 2022-08-18

Posts: 121

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

yes and not actively scum hunting it as you put it definitely makes one scum

But I look at your past and instinctively it feels like an interest in scumhunting is shown in a single digit percentile of your posts.

it does not have to be present in more than that

I just want to quickly comment on this for Elijah.
1) Actually, deep thoughts are what I find the towniest, as that's a hard thing for wolves to fake. Anyone can spam angrily for inactive to become more active and ask for reads etc. etc. Why do you think I townread 2b55 and BB among the highest for example? Because they've the deepest thoughts - which is a good sign they're solving.
2) I think this is a difference in how we think the game should be played. Let's any random slot has a 25% chance to be wolf from your perspective and let's say you see something that you think would come from a wolf 26 out of 100 times, so just +1% of rand, what do you do? Some go crazy for that micro > rand, some note it, some discuss it with others, etc. etc. it differs between people. You probably don't think mention worthy anything that's like less than 80% wolf likely or something. I think any thought should be shared.

So, no, "active hunting" or whatever isn't a necessity. It's not even that clearing. Main thing is having of you caring about solving the game in a genuine fashion. Don't blame others when they don't find it in your 1% game content posts. (it's more now, ofc)

---

“I like nonsense, it wakes up the brain cells. Fantasy is a necessary ingredient in living.”

- Dr. Seuss

Nuclear Gandhi

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Joined: 2022-08-18

Posts: 121

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

On other notes

193 is a good look for ShadowEdge given that Lumi's posts that far have been about unreasonable townreads on ShadowEdge. Which aligns with 185.
+ 193 itself was unrprovoked

I like 223 by Minimania, especially the Allen part. Like it makes sense to me why'd someone focus on looking into the top wagoon slot more closely.

I still haven't read page 10 tbh btw

---

“I like nonsense, it wakes up the brain cells. Fantasy is a necessary ingredient in living.”

- Dr. Seuss

Nuclear Gandhi

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Joined: 2022-08-18

Posts: 121

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

!vote Marshmallow Marshall

Ftr, MM is 4 layers of towny to me. The most towny to me.
1) most active most game
2) had the top 2 deepest thoughts before BB and 2b55 made their lists
3) smooth game progression
4) is comfortable

I wish you re-evaluate this because I believe this to be just a OMGUS

---

“I like nonsense, it wakes up the brain cells. Fantasy is a necessary ingredient in living.”

- Dr. Seuss

Nuclear Gandhi

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Joined: 2022-08-18

Posts: 121

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

!vote Marshmallow Marshall

BuzzerBee is also a decent target.

There's a teapot orbiting Jubiter. Don't ask me to prove it or reason it though.

---

“I like nonsense, it wakes up the brain cells. Fantasy is a necessary ingredient in living.”

- Dr. Seuss

Nuclear Gandhi

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Joined: 2022-08-18

Posts: 121

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

having signs of you caring about solving the game*

---

“I like nonsense, it wakes up the brain cells. Fantasy is a necessary ingredient in living.”

- Dr. Seuss

Nuclear Gandhi

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Joined: 2022-08-18

Posts: 121

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

!vote Big Bon Jovi
Pretty sure we've 0 hope to win with that slot alive if they don't change

---

“I like nonsense, it wakes up the brain cells. Fantasy is a necessary ingredient in living.”

- Dr. Seuss

Nuclear Gandhi

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Joined: 2022-08-18

Posts: 121

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

I like 223 by Minimania, especially the Allen part. Like it makes sense to me why'd someone focus on looking into the top wagoon slot more closely.

On a 2nd thought this's way too low expectation ahh
!vote minimania

What I said about

---

“I like nonsense, it wakes up the brain cells. Fantasy is a necessary ingredient in living.”

- Dr. Seuss

Nuclear Gandhi

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Posts: 121

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

what said about shadow still stands though, they're super clear imho*

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“I like nonsense, it wakes up the brain cells. Fantasy is a necessary ingredient in living.”

- Dr. Seuss

Nuclear Gandhi

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Joined: 2022-08-18

Posts: 121

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

Now, are we going to discuss the game or are we going to continue a meaningless meta discussion?

Please do. What are your thoughts on MM and BB?

Also, I dare you to show 1 deep thought

---

“I like nonsense, it wakes up the brain cells. Fantasy is a necessary ingredient in living.”

- Dr. Seuss

Nuclear Gandhi

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Joined: 2022-08-18

Posts: 121

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

!vote Big Bon Jovi
Pretty sure we've 0 hope to win with that slot alive if they don't change

they will either get replaced or modkilled, focus on someone else. don't waste a day on an inactive.

there isnt even a rule for activity so
they said hi and thats enough

---

“I like nonsense, it wakes up the brain cells. Fantasy is a necessary ingredient in living.”

- Dr. Seuss

Nuclear Gandhi

Member

Joined: 2022-08-18

Posts: 121

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

Now, are we going to discuss the game or are we going to continue a meaningless meta discussion?

Please do. What are your thoughts on MM and BB?

Also, I dare you to show 1 deep thought

If you're going to be sarcastic I'm not going to talk to you, I'm not here to be someone's intellectual punching bag.

You've to admit that sarcastic comment was deserved.
I don't mean to demean you or anything, but seriously - what are your thoughts of MM and BB? You said you want to discuss the game. If you actually refuse to comment on your vote and random target after saying, that's just.. I don't even know what that is tbh. Be serious please. What are you thoughts on BB and MM?

---

“I like nonsense, it wakes up the brain cells. Fantasy is a necessary ingredient in living.”

- Dr. Seuss

Nuclear Gandhi

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Joined: 2022-08-18

Posts: 121

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

But to answer your question, first buzzer bee.
This will not be a full overview or even totally true (more like the explanation after the fact I was alluding to earlier), but he has several posts where he promises to be active, says some things, and then says 'I'll be back.'

Looking at their reads list, the thoughts and "investigation" that went behind it - I'd say he did plenty. At the very least, 10x more than most here, including you just ftr.

---

“I like nonsense, it wakes up the brain cells. Fantasy is a necessary ingredient in living.”

- Dr. Seuss

Nuclear Gandhi

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Joined: 2022-08-18

Posts: 121

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

Everyone would kill Lumi tbh

As for your thoughts on MM, you've posted only 1 thing: "towny post but that doesnt mean anything"
If you had any other thoughts about MM, that's news to people reading this thread.

Ok, there was also this OMGUS post:

the text in bold is irrational. one can try to get reads and not get any because Mafia is a difficult game. and if you're going to try to say, yeah maybe you should push people, yeah guess what I guess I might push Grilyon2, AllenCaspe, and you two for OMGUSSING me for no reason and **** me off

I already gave you my reads, I'm not going to regurgitate some reads that I don't even believe in and aren't sure of myself

I don't have a read on most people, why is that not allowed? btw - between MM and Nuclear, I think MM is scummier.

Which for obvious reasons I don't take serious.. it's just OMGUS through and through

---

“I like nonsense, it wakes up the brain cells. Fantasy is a necessary ingredient in living.”

- Dr. Seuss

Nuclear Gandhi

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Joined: 2022-08-18

Posts: 121

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

I wasn't going to post my town read of Minimania, but when I'm annoyed I have 0 self-control so I might as well just do it; Minimania is almost lock town for me.

Man.. you're too much of an INTP for Forum Mafia
walking talking stereotype

---

“I like nonsense, it wakes up the brain cells. Fantasy is a necessary ingredient in living.”

- Dr. Seuss

Nuclear Gandhi

Member

Joined: 2022-08-18

Posts: 121

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

I wasn't going to post my town read of Minimania, but when I'm annoyed I have 0 self-control so I might as well just do it; Minimania is almost lock town for me.

Man.. you're too much of an INTP for Forum Mafia
walking talking stereotype

What do you mean by that btw? I googled the 16 personality types and did not understand

Easiest way would be to show you
Watch like 10-20 videos in https://www.youtube.com/c/dearkristin with all 16 types features, and watch only the parts with INTP. would take like 5 minutes tops and sooner or later you'd understand

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“I like nonsense, it wakes up the brain cells. Fantasy is a necessary ingredient in living.”

- Dr. Seuss

Nuclear Gandhi

Member

Joined: 2022-08-18

Posts: 121

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

If anyone's interested in looking into past gameplay by Elijah to see if you can figure something out:
Town Game (April 2022)
Town Game (October 2021)
Town Game (June 2021; replaced out)
Town Game (June 2021)
Town Game (Jun 2021)
Neutral Game (July 2021)
Mafia Game (March 2021)
Mafia Game (February 2021)
Wolf Game (December 2020)

Went to December 2020 because wolf games seem to not be common for him, skipped a number of town games.

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“I like nonsense, it wakes up the brain cells. Fantasy is a necessary ingredient in living.”

- Dr. Seuss