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ElijahBaley

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Joined: 2022-08-07

Posts: 112

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

also, it isn't true that I wasn't scum hunting, I was. you can look at the posts I made regarding MM and see I had the intent to scum hunt.

When in #75 you called MM towny, but didn't call anyone else towny.
When in page2 you didn't show signs of being interested in solving 2b55, when by comparison she wants to solve you.
When in #52 your interest is in a anti-town claim, you first game interest in a time. (previous page your interest was in statistics)
When in page3 and page4 your interest is in commenting to things related to things said about you, with the exception of that 1 filler looking post about MM.
That I'm so Town post #83.
You had no post page5, but the only post page6 is again commenting on things said said about you.
Now we're here, page 7. But I look at your past and instinctively it feels like an interest in scumhunting is shown in a single digit percentile of your posts.

it does not have to be present in more than that - I don't try to force reads like you guys do. if something feels scummy to me I call it out as scummy. I don't try to make up some weird complicated story as to why someone is scum, I only call someone scum (or town) if I'm sure they are. numbers don't mean anything.

also, it isn't true that I wasn't scum hunting, I was. you can look at the posts I made regarding MM and see I had the intent to scum hunt.

by the way, this could be wrong or whatever but AllenCaspe's read list triggers my inner gut read

!vote AllenCaspe9510

Well, if you have intent to scum hunt, you must have some reads now. Please provide us with a list of reads

You've been a center of attention for the whole game, there are 7 pages and serious posts... like, if you actually tried to get reads, you at least have some by now.

the text in bold is irrational. one can try to get reads and not get any because Mafia is a difficult game. and if you're going to try to say, yeah maybe you should push people, yeah guess what I guess I might push Grilyon2, AllenCaspe, and you two for OMGUSSING me for no reason and **** me off

I already gave you my reads, I'm not going to regurgitate some reads that I don't even believe in and aren't sure of myself

I don't have a read on most people, why is that not allowed? btw - between MM and Nuclear, I think MM is scummier.

ElijahBaley

Member

Joined: 2022-08-07

Posts: 112

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

also, I didn't call MM towny in that post, but I said the post was towny, but could come from any alignment.

ElijahBaley

Member

Joined: 2022-08-07

Posts: 112

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

I didn't think I had to actually come out and say this but I was mostly sus of Pqwerty because I thought he was bating us as a Serial Killer. I'm not sus on him anymore at all, besides the base level sus I have for everyone.

the focus on serial killer can come from Mafia, nobody else is sitting here hunting for some neutral killer apart from Minimania. sus much?

I'm even going to go further than that and suggest that they could be traitor, traitor has no teammates and can easily die to Serial Killer

ElijahBaley

Member

Joined: 2022-08-07

Posts: 112

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

So here's the thing. The way I play is basically the way I play Among Us. I will look first for people who are good. Generally in amogus I can follow someone and if they don't kill anyone, generally they are safe. I don't have anything mechanically like that here but I still default to this playstyle as I am now.

Do my reads seem wonky? Well, probably not considering it doesn't look like I have any reads. Who do I even sus? Truthfully, not sure at this point. I've been focusing my energy more on who I think is good.

I've had the opportunity to sort of look over Allen's latest games on discord. When he is sus, he is a lot less open about his thoughts than when he is good. In this game, he made a readslist on a bunch of people but explained that he's busy. Maybe some of the reads were confusing, but they seem genuine, so I think Allen is safe.

Grilyon looks like he has no idea what's going on and I think his genuine looking confusion is enough for a derpclear from me.

Knowing what I know about Lumi, it wouldn't shock me that theyd aim to town lead at the last 12 hours of the day, so that's a bit of town points from me, but I've never played a game where they were sus so I'll keep it slight.

The rest of my energy has been spent trying to get some sort of a read on the players not native to this community.

I don't sus Pqwerty right now, it is true. Claiming anti-town in a game of only Town and Mafia is a pro town move so my thoughts on him have reversed since in my mind it's no longer possible for him to be an SK.

If we must PoE someone, I'd rather it be Elijah than Allen, Grilyon, or myself.

I don't buy Allen's reads list (I also didn't see them saying they're busy). Being 'busy' makes their reads list even scummier.

ElijahBaley

Member

Joined: 2022-08-07

Posts: 112

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

oh wow, there's only 5 hours left? I'll jump over to Minimania if Allen can't get more votes.

probably better to vote Allen because Minimania posts more.

ElijahBaley

Member

Joined: 2022-08-07

Posts: 112

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

Hey Lumi, why are you claiming vt?

So I don't get night killed, lmao

Yeah but like, no one prompted you to claim and no one is voting for you. If you’re actually a VT you made it easier for the mafia to hunt for PRs and if you’re a VT it’s way better that you get nightkilled than a PR, unless in like the next 12 hours you become the town leader.

This just pings me as weird.

It is a little weird, but their posts have been pretty i forget the word for it like thought-provoking. Basically like Lumi seems to actually want to get information out of people so I doubt doubt their VT claim

you doubt their VT claim because they're trying to get info out of people? I don't see what one's specific role has anything to do with that, unless you're somehow saying they're Mafia?

also, I don't understand ShadowsEdge's point on Lumi, that they shouldn't claim VT to protect the PRs, therefore they aren't VT? that seems reaching much?

ElijahBaley

Member

Joined: 2022-08-07

Posts: 112

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

Oh that wasn't ShadowsEdge making that point it was Pqwerty, never mind.

ElijahBaley

Member

Joined: 2022-08-07

Posts: 112

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

So here's the thing. The way I play is basically the way I play Among Us. I will look first for people who are good. Generally in amogus I can follow someone and if they don't kill anyone, generally they are safe. I don't have anything mechanically like that here but I still default to this playstyle as I am now.

Do my reads seem wonky? Well, probably not considering it doesn't look like I have any reads. Who do I even sus? Truthfully, not sure at this point. I've been focusing my energy more on who I think is good.

I've had the opportunity to sort of look over Allen's latest games on discord. When he is sus, he is a lot less open about his thoughts than when he is good. In this game, he made a readslist on a bunch of people but explained that he's busy. Maybe some of the reads were confusing, but they seem genuine, so I think Allen is safe.

Grilyon looks like he has no idea what's going on and I think his genuine looking confusion is enough for a derpclear from me.

Knowing what I know about Lumi, it wouldn't shock me that theyd aim to town lead at the last 12 hours of the day, so that's a bit of town points from me, but I've never played a game where they were sus so I'll keep it slight.

The rest of my energy has been spent trying to get some sort of a read on the players not native to this community.

I don't sus Pqwerty right now, it is true. Claiming anti-town in a game of only Town and Mafia is a pro town move so my thoughts on him have reversed since in my mind it's no longer possible for him to be an SK.

If we must PoE someone, I'd rather it be Elijah than Allen, Grilyon, or myself.

btw concerning that second to last sentence
"Claiming anti-town [...] is a pro-town move [...]"

this is true only if they are town.

this is effectively "they are town because I want them to be town"
is this a perspective slip from someone who knows pqwerty's alignment?

!vote Minimania

ElijahBaley

Member

Joined: 2022-08-07

Posts: 112

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

that's not to mention that one should never PoE themselves (as either alignment actually - but I think I can see where that post can come from, as scum)

ElijahBaley

Member

Joined: 2022-08-07

Posts: 112

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

the focus on serial killer can come from Mafia, nobody else is sitting here hunting for some neutral killer apart from Minimania. sus much?

Also, about this

Nobody else is hunting a serial killer because everyone else can read lol

yes, but putting myself in your shoes as Mafia, I get the following system of feelings/train of thought/whatever:

I don't want to die at night, this gives me some measure of anxiety. If someone claimed an anti-town role, I think they might be serial killer precisely because I get anxiety from the thought I could die at night. I push said person for being serial killer, and I don't get any bad vibes like someone could scum read me for it or something, so there's nothing that could give me anxiety/give me pause before I attempt to push a lynch on a serial killer, so therefore I do it, and even seem somewhat townie doing it. note this is trying to assess a negative - if I believe someone is vigilante, I would perhaps think that I'd be scum read if I pushed them and got them lynched, or I'd be scared of their reaction and don't want to get into a TvW battle; however, you are not aware of any these feelings in this particular case, it's just that the LACK of anxiety would cause you to act in that way (not sure how to phrase this properly)

I have no opinion on the switch you made from scumreading him for being a Serial Killer to townreading him, but the most evident progression that comes to mind (I neither agree nor disagree with the following), is that, since you know they are not one of your teammates (excepting perhaps Traitor, if you yourself are not the traitor - but the argument applies even if you aren't Traitor), you townread them by default  but being Mafia, don't necessarily have any real reasons to be townreading them, so the reason you give does not match this inner "knowledge" that they are Town

ElijahBaley

Member

Joined: 2022-08-07

Posts: 112

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

But even if there was a potential SK this game, let me explain my line if thinking.

With a traitor, there's at least two Mafia in this game. Add in a hypothetical Serial Killer for this scenario.

The faction and the 3p represent two kills made every night.

Eliminating a Mafia member on day 1 does not reduce that number of kills made tonight.

Eliminating a lone serial killer on day 1 reduces that number of kills made each night down to 1 kill.

Therefore, aiming for a Serial Killer and hitting correctly produces a more desirable result for town.

I don't imagine I have to explain why that is

But there's no 3p role, so none of this matters

is that literally the reason you had, at the time, for pushing the serial killer, or is this just an explanation after the fact? (note that explanations after the fact can come from any alignment and I am not necessarily accusing you in this post, I simply want to know what was going through your head when you pushed the serial killer thing)

ElijahBaley

Member

Joined: 2022-08-07

Posts: 112

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

I have no opinion on the switch you made from scumreading him for being a Serial Killer to townreading him,

and I dont townread him

fair enough, you said it was a pro-town move, not that he had to be town. so you neither townread him or scum read him if I understand correctly? at least that's how it appears from what you're saying

ElijahBaley

Member

Joined: 2022-08-07

Posts: 112

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

I don't want to die at night, this gives me some measure of anxiety. If someone claimed an anti-town role, I think they might be serial killer precisely because I get anxiety from the thought I could die at night

Maybe Im crusty as **** or something but I've never been in a game where the Serial Killer can kill Mafia members

really, is that uncommon here? can anyone else talk chime in on this?

ElijahBaley

Member

Joined: 2022-08-07

Posts: 112

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

God, I need to use a spellchecker or something. "talk chime in on this"
...

ElijahBaley

Member

Joined: 2022-08-07

Posts: 112

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

But even if there was a potential SK this game, let me explain my line if thinking.

With a traitor, there's at least two Mafia in this game. Add in a hypothetical Serial Killer for this scenario.

The faction and the 3p represent two kills made every night.

Eliminating a Mafia member on day 1 does not reduce that number of kills made tonight.

Eliminating a lone serial killer on day 1 reduces that number of kills made each night down to 1 kill.

Therefore, aiming for a Serial Killer and hitting correctly produces a more desirable result for town.

I don't imagine I have to explain why that is

But there's no 3p role, so none of this matters

is that literally the reason you had, at the time, for pushing the serial killer, or is this just an explanation after the fact? (note that explanations after the fact can come from any alignment and I am not necessarily accusing you in this post, I simply want to know what was going through your head when you pushed the serial killer thing)

It's not something I was actively thinking about, no. I didn't sit there and ponder "hey! We need to kill SK first! I must hunt for SK above all else!"

I made a post that my gameplan was to search for people I think are innocent first and foremost. So why would I contradict that and say I am actively scumhunting a 3p?

But I saw Pqwerty's post, and I thought it was 3p suspicious. Like, of course I'm not going to not say something. I know 3p is generally a better target than Mafia, playing Town of Salem on a discord server has taught me that. It's been a while but Beep Boop should know what I'm on about here

alright, I'm still not sure I understand, but if Serial Killer generally can't kill Mafia then I'm going to move back to AllenCaspe.

[size=7]!vote AllenCaspe[/size]

ElijahBaley

Member

Joined: 2022-08-07

Posts: 112

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

@Marshmallow Marshall
@Nuclear Gandhi

How do you two know ElijahBaley?

Do I know ElijahBaley under some other name?

That'd be Oberon. Maybe.. he had other names as well.
Imagine you thinking we're in cahoots with the Elijah who's the only player that has played in MU Champs on illegal hydras multiple years in a row
This's not him.

Grilyon2 is town as well, he town-slipped here:

Missed that. Though I wouldn't hold much stock into it, it's 48h in the game and that's their first serious post (other than 1 sentence about Elijah). Could be coached from wolf chat.

By comparison, where minimania showed they think there there's a 3p - that's a more realistic slip due to it happening in a heated moment. What did you make of that slip btw? (Assuming you didn't comment on it)

Nuclear Gandhi is polarized

And just in his town meta. Like, literal shield this slot all the way until F3 town meta. EZ read

This can't be objective.
Even I don't know how I'd be as wolf once I finally will get it.

Be back a bit later.
I'll probably vote minimania for the hopes of any elimination though.

Yes I'm the man of a trillion names:

Ganelon, Magoroth, Benedict, BenedictBarimen, Tolbooth, and probably some others I'm forgetting

ElijahBaley

Member

Joined: 2022-08-07

Posts: 112

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

!vote Marshmallow Marshall

ElijahBaley

Member

Joined: 2022-08-07

Posts: 112

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

BuzzerBee is also a decent target.

ElijahBaley

Member

Joined: 2022-08-07

Posts: 112

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

!vote Marshmallow Marshall

Ftr, MM is 4 layers of towny to me. The most towny to me.
1) most active most game
2) had the top 2 deepest thoughts before BB and 2b55 made their lists
3) smooth game progression
4) is comfortable

I wish you re-evaluate this because I believe this to be just a OMGUS

you're annoying

yes and not actively scum hunting it as you put it definitely makes one scum

But I look at your past and instinctively it feels like an interest in scumhunting is shown in a single digit percentile of your posts.

it does not have to be present in more than that

I just want to quickly comment on this for Elijah.
1) Actually, deep thoughts are what I find the towniest, as that's a hard thing for wolves to fake. Anyone can spam angrily for inactive to become more active and ask for reads etc. etc. Why do you think I townread 2b55 and BB among the highest for example? Because they've the deepest thoughts - which is a good sign they're solving.
2) I think this is a difference in how we think the game should be played. Let's any random slot has a 25% chance to be wolf from your perspective and let's say you see something that you think would come from a wolf 26 out of 100 times, so just +1% of rand, what do you do? Some go crazy for that micro > rand, some note it, some discuss it with others, etc. etc. it differs between people. You probably don't think mention worthy anything that's like less than 80% wolf likely or something. I think any thought should be shared.

So, no, "active hunting" or whatever isn't a necessity. It's not even that clearing. Main thing is having of you caring about solving the game in a genuine fashion. Don't blame others when they don't find it in your 1% game content posts. (it's more now, ofc)

I townread and scum read whoever the hell I want. Your point about me not being "townie" for not "solving" (whatever that means) in every post fails because 1) I know I was trying to look for alignment in pretty much every post in the game, and I am town. Also, I am not scum reading MM for voting me, I am scum reading him because I think he is scum. You can think whatever you wish of my motivation, but that doesn't mean IT IS my motivation. Stop trying to convince me I am scum.

I don't find deep thoughts towny actually at all, anyone can have deep thoughts.

Now, are we going to discuss the game or are we going to continue a meaningless meta discussion?

ElijahBaley

Member

Joined: 2022-08-07

Posts: 112

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

!vote Big Bon Jovi
Pretty sure we've 0 hope to win with that slot alive if they don't change

they will either get replaced or modkilled, focus on someone else. don't waste a day on an inactive.

ElijahBaley

Member

Joined: 2022-08-07

Posts: 112

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

Now, are we going to discuss the game or are we going to continue a meaningless meta discussion?

Please do. What are your thoughts on MM and BB?

Also, I dare you to show 1 deep thought

If you're going to be sarcastic I'm not going to talk to you, I'm not here to be someone's intellectual punching bag.

ElijahBaley

Member

Joined: 2022-08-07

Posts: 112

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

But to answer your question, first buzzer bee.
This will not be a full overview or even totally true (more like the explanation after the fact I was alluding to earlier), but he has several posts where he promises to be active, says some things, and then says 'I'll be back.'

ElijahBaley

Member

Joined: 2022-08-07

Posts: 112

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

yes and not actively scum hunting it as you put it definitely makes one scum

But I look at your past and instinctively it feels like an interest in scumhunting is shown in a single digit percentile of your posts.

it does not have to be present in more than that

I just want to quickly comment on this for Elijah.
1) Actually, deep thoughts are what I find the towniest, as that's a hard thing for wolves to fake. Anyone can spam angrily for inactive to become more active and ask for reads etc. etc. Why do you think I townread 2b55 and BB among the highest for example? Because they've the deepest thoughts - which is a good sign they're solving.
2) I think this is a difference in how we think the game should be played. Let's any random slot has a 25% chance to be wolf from your perspective and let's say you see something that you think would come from a wolf 26 out of 100 times, so just +1% of rand, what do you do? Some go crazy for that micro > rand, some note it, some discuss it with others, etc. etc. it differs between people. You probably don't think mention worthy anything that's like less than 80% wolf likely or something. I think any thought should be shared.

So, no, "active hunting" or whatever isn't a necessity. It's not even that clearing. Main thing is having of you caring about solving the game in a genuine fashion. Don't blame others when they don't find it in your 1% game content posts. (it's more now, ofc)

all thoughts should be shared, it's just that many people just make up complicated schemes that they don't actually believe in and then push them. I don't do that, I wait until I feel something that comes from within and then I state it.

ElijahBaley

Member

Joined: 2022-08-07

Posts: 112

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

Now, are we going to discuss the game or are we going to continue a meaningless meta discussion?

Please do. What are your thoughts on MM and BB?

Also, I dare you to show 1 deep thought

If you're going to be sarcastic I'm not going to talk to you, I'm not here to be someone's intellectual punching bag.

You've to admit that sarcastic comment was deserved.
I don't mean to demean you or anything, but seriously - what are your thoughts of MM and BB? You said you want to discuss the game. If you actually refuse to comment on your vote and random target after saying, that's just.. I don't even know what that is tbh. Be serious please. What are you thoughts on BB and MM?

right now, my thoughts are that I'm too annoyed and cannot remember what my thoughts on MM were, but I remember I read some posts on d1 idk which and like I said BuzzerBee seems scummy, MM is null and playing totally NAI, saying things either alignment could say
my thoughts also are that

1) Lumi was night killed by Mafia. obviously someone either considered him a threat and eliminated them from the game. you said that if you were scum you woulda night killed him, but I don't think that means anything necessarily. anyone here who found him a threat woulda killed him even if Lumi wasn't scum reading them. of course, it's also possible that he was totally randomly murdered (such things do happen)

ElijahBaley

Member

Joined: 2022-08-07

Posts: 112

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

But to answer your question, first buzzer bee.
This will not be a full overview or even totally true (more like the explanation after the fact I was alluding to earlier), but he has several posts where he promises to be active, says some things, and then says 'I'll be back.'

Looking at their reads list, the thoughts and "investigation" that went behind it - I'd say he did plenty. At the very least, 10x more than most here, including you just ftr.

I confirmed someone as town for myself on D1, I think I also did plenty
I don't think the amount of effort matters. Anyone can scum hunt. It's not that hard.