Mafia 35 game thread [MAFIA WINS] (GAME OVER)

Norwee · 2019-11-02 22:32:30

NOMINATION MAFIA

Setup explanation:

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Rules:

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Alive players:

1: ZeldaXD
2: Kira
3: Onjit ShadowsEdge
4: ILikeTofuuJoe
5: Slabdrill
6: Taskmanager

Dead players:
KirbyKareem. Lynched Day 1. Vanilla townie.
(Processor) Peace. Lynched Day 2. Vanilla townie.
mutantdevle. Lynched Day 3. Vanilla townie.
eleizibeth. Lynched Day 4. Vanilla townie.
Crybaby NoNK. Lynched Day 5. Vanilla townie.

Day 2 nomination:

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Day 4 nomination:

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Minimania, Slabdrill, Processor, rat

ShadowsEdge · 2019-11-04 15:56:10

Alright sorry, I was busy this morning but I got some time to say my part.

I'm not going to jump straight into saying either Mutant or Peace is town or scum because of the choices the Mafia made on who to nominate for the lynch. Although, disregarding the alignments, at the moment, Peace is the best lynch.

I'm not putting myself up onto some high horse for this, but Mutant and I are both more experienced in the game. And I think it would be better to keep us in the game rather than Peace. If there is some sort of reasoning as to why Mutant should be lynched over Peace, then I'd be willing to listen to it, but the Town would lose a lot more from lynching Town Mutant or I, as opposed to a Town Peace.

Anyway, I can't really say all that much, because not all that much has gone on. But my stance is on Peace right now, for reasons mentioned above. Anyway, I have to head out to school again.

ShadowsEdge · 2019-11-05 06:34:38

Aight y'all sorry I got sidetracked with some stuff today, so I haven't gotten the time to post until now.

I'm not heavily involved in the argument, so I'll say my part. Crybaby's case is more solid in the way it was constructed. That's not to say that I believe everything Crybaby is saying is true, but I believe more of what Crybaby is saying as opposed to what Mutant is saying, because while some parts of both arguments are based on some level of flimsy arguments, I feel that Crybaby's is just more sound in general.

With that said, I'm not going to go into a point-analysis of Mutant's post, because I feel Crybaby's covers most of what I would have to say, so it would be pointless (Ironically) to make a completely separate post just to reiterate the same points.

I'm not opposed to the idea of speculating on what Crybaby's intentions are, but specifically for today, it should not be the priority. The lynch is locked between Mutant Peace and I, so speculating about Crybaby being scum won't do much except bring speculations into the next day, and ultimately would bring us into a situation where, because of all the speculating, neither side will drop their suspicions. Of course, the speculations on Mutant's part are fine, but there is no way to act on them until tomorrow, so it seems more like a way to draw away the attention from himself.

I want to make it clear that today should mainly focus on the candidates of the lynch. Of course, speculations else where can go on, but with no way to act on it, they would just be a means of starting large debacles, which, as I said before, ultimately lead to hardcore suspicions.

I realize the suspicions against all the candidates, including myself, being seen as possible scum. But I don't have heavy stances against or for either Mutant or Peace. The whole idea that Peace is wagon hopping, like Crybaby brought up, doesn't really provide much. I've pointed out in previous games that Peace just tends to follow what the popular opinion is. As for Mutant, though his reasoning is flimsy, and it is out of character for him, it isn't necessarily a scum tell. Others have used flimsy logic before as town (Most prominent example I can remember is Jawapa in Maf 31 where he used a bunch of BS logic to claim that Kira was the cop). I do have a slight lean against Mutant, and for Peace, mainly for the reasons mentioned previously, but nothing I would bet my life on yet.

I don't have a whole lot to say. I do realize I'm semi-sheeping Crybaby a lot here, but most of the points Crybaby makes are, like I said before, more solid. I'm gonna be heading off to sleep here soon, because I have school again in the morning, but I have a bit of time before I do go to sleep, although I doubt I'll make a post in that time.

ShadowsEdge · 2019-11-05 16:00:33

Aight I'm up, but I got school soon so I'm just making this for now.

Crybaby wrote:

Could you explain why you have a lean against Mutant? Is it because he was defending himself against me with about as much aggression as I gave him (which is fair) or is there more you haven't said? And, is the lean for Peace because of any particular evidence you've acclimated, or is it because of a lack of evidence condemning Peace?

The lean against mutant is because of his lack of a care to the way he went about justifying why he believed everyone in the list was Town. He went quickly to concluding that Peace is town (Although, I can't blame him much for this, because Peace does reveal his alignment easily), and he went quickly to concluding that I am town. I understand the reasonings on both ends, but they were assumptions made at the beginning of the game, that rely on specific conditions, more specifically for mine.

The part about it that strikes me as odd, though, is that if Mutant were mafia, being part of the nomination, he would want to convince everyone why someone like Me or Peace is mafia, to deter the vote away from himself. I won't count out the possibility, though, because Mutant is more than capable of breaking expectations.

Because of that, combined with the fact that I just simply don't want to start trusting Mutant so early on, that's why I have Mutant under a slight scum lean.

As for the lean on Peace, it's only a lean, because I don't have particular evidence for it, and I will say definitively that I don't. The only sort of evidence is that Peace just seems to be trying to follow the majority again, and we know from last game that Peace is capable of making himself look suspicious even as town. So, it is more in response of a lack of evidence against Peace.

Crybaby wrote:

Thanks, but I hope you don't plan on tying yourself in with me, because just because you agree with what I said doesn't mean I suspect you any less than Mutant, yet.

I am fully aware of that. I made that part because I realized a lot of that post was in correlation to things you've said. And I wanted to address that I was aware of it, and that it wasn't just me trying to copy the opinion of another.

I gotta head out to school now, but I wanted to address the questions and statements Crybaby directed towards me.

Minimania

ShadowsEdge · 2019-11-06 03:21:57

Sorry y'all I got home late today, but I wanted to address the accusations Crybaby is making against me.

Crybaby wrote:

- He has only agreed with me and nothing more. With this, he has left me not much room to dissect his posts.

Just gonna say this now, this is a lie. I do agree with things you've said, but I provided my own parts to it. Just because I used your reasonings to back up my own ideas does not mean that my posts are only agreeing with you and nothing more. I will admit, I haven't said much that's gamechanging, but what do you expect me to do? Just magically have all the answers that reveal that this person is mafia and this person isn't?

I say what I feel I need to say, I semi-sheeped you because your points were mostly what I agreed with, and it would be stupid to make an entirely new post just to restate the same ideas, and then get called out for the same exact reason I'm getting called out for now. I've also made it clear that in semi-sheeping you, I did not intend it to be only echoing your thoughts. I intended it solely to back up my own points that I wanted to present, albeit they weren't anything gamechanging, as well as set my stance in where I feel the situation is.

Crybaby wrote:

- He has historically been hard to read for us simply because of his relatively new arrival to our forum Mafia games and I'm not fully confident in his playstyle, and I might not be alone in this.

That's on purpose, I try to keep to a relatively similar playstyle through most games, but with differences in how I go about it. Just makes the game more interesting than just "Oh I'll just play this game exactly like how I played Game X, and it'll go similarly to how I played Game X."

And to add onto that, you're literally one of the best people in the Forums to read me. You're the one who has known me the longest out of everyone here, and if others can develop a sense of my own playstyle, then I think you can do the same. (Ex. Zelda's read on me in Mafia 33)

Crybaby wrote:

He is a stronger player than Peace, and yet has less to say than [Peace].

The whole thing with Peace having more to say is only him sheeping your ideas, with some places where he provides his own input. Im not saying that because Peace is sheeping you that it's a tell that he's scum, since I'm being suspected for sheeping you. Peace does that in every game he plays (From what I've noticed), I'm just pointing it out to say that your idea of Peace having "more to say" than me, is just him echoing your own ideas.

One of the things I don't like, though, is that Peace is blatantly trying to throw the suspicion onto Mutant and I. He's been doing it for the entirety of the day, and it's because he doesn't want to be lynched. I can understand it from the perspective of both sides, but I just don't like how Peace is trying to shade us. From how I've seen the entirety of the day going, he's been just showing off reasonings of why he thinks that Mutant and I are more suspicious than himself, rather than creating his own defense for himself.

I still hold onto my original lean of him, but I just hate that Peace's way of going about defending himself is to just show off reasons why the other people are better candidates to take the rope.

I can go into specifics about my stance of Mutant, if you want, but reading Mutant is different than reading Peace, which is why I'd rather do that in it's own post.

Anyway, I won't be going to sleep for another around 5 hours, so I should have time to post again later if I'm needed.

ShadowsEdge · 2019-11-07 04:21:07

Alright, this is starting to get intense now, but I want to mainly talk about this:

Crybaby wrote:

Here's a question: If we are all so sure that Peace is town and have slight suspicions on the other two, why do we still vote for Peace?

Because it's only a slight suspicion. Are you willing to bet your life on lynching someone that could be town, and if they ARE town would more negatively affect the town? Or are you more willing to lynch someone who has constantly been known as a weaker player, and generally follows the town consensus, rather than forming their own opinion.

The vote on Peace is a failsafe. There are suspicions on me and Mutant, but Peace is generally perceived as someone who is less essential to the town (Sorry Peace), while Mutant and I have been useful in times previous. I won't say that I am a necessity, because I am in no way a necessity for town to win, but to get rid of someone who is more capable of providing the opinions that are needed so early on into the game is not the way we should be going, unless there is a clear reasoning to be going such a way. Peace is the failsafe because we lose the least by lynching Peace if the candidates are all Town.

But I will say that the whole thing about "everyone having slight suspicions on the other two" is false. The only people (iirc), that have voiced opinions about any suspicions against me are You, Slabdrill, and Peace. The only other thing that could be labelled as a suspicion is Zelda, but they said to just be weary, not outright saying they have a suspicion against me. Slabdrill has only voiced that opinion once, and has not pushed for it, and Peace seems to only be doing it to save himself from the hammer.

I can't say the same for Mutant, Mutant does have a lot more suspicion against him, but similarly, it's not like everyone has a suspicion against him. You created a general consensus for the town based on an opinion that YOU formed. Not everyone is willing to bet their chances on slight suspicions that not everyone has. I'm not saying this as a reason to stop any suspicions against Mutant or myself, I'm simply saying why I think your logic is BS and manipulative. I don't like it, because you're blatantly trying to remove the competition early in the game on the basis that we're perceived as suspicious to a minority of the town (In my case, and partially in Mutant's case).

This is, in no way, ratifying any claims against myself or Mutant. But you, Crybaby, have been playing the manipulative game, while claiming that it's all to provide things for the town to think about. I'm not making a definite tell on it yet, because I don't want to start a debacle on this today, with it going to just be used as a dead end to the coming days.

My belief stays firmly on that Peace should be lynched today. Not only because Peace is objectively the least skilled in terms of willpower to the town, but that Crybaby along with Peace are the ONLY people in the town that have suggested a counterlynch away from Peace. I am still on the belief that Peace is town, but my opinion of Crybaby is not the same. Crybaby has been, from what I've seen, the only one who thoroughly objects a Peace lynch; as the lynch grew, he provided a counterlynch away from Peace.

Regardless of Peace's alignment, Crybaby doesn't want Peace to take the rope, and I don't know if it's town- or scum-motivated yet. Regardless, my opinion has not changed. Though, I will not be voting for Peace yet, because I believe Task said that Peace is L-1, and plurality lynch will take effect regardless of if I place my vote or not.

I'll be able to post for around 3 more hours, but I believe day will be ending soon. So I'll look back to see if I need to respond to anything later.

mutantdevle

ShadowsEdge · 2019-11-08 07:35:18

Whew boy, there's not a lot going on today, so this post might not have a whole lotta content. Sorry.

We have 9 players left, 3 of which are mafia. Objectively there is a 1 in 3 chance that whoever we lynch is mafia. By this, I mean multiple things, firstly, don't be cocky. We have 3 chances of getting scum before batter batter and we're out. But at the same time, there's a relatively high likelihood that whoever we lynch will be Mafia, so don't be too shy to present your case.

I know my own position, whether others choose to trust me on that position is in the eye of the beholder, so with my own position, I see a 3 in 8 chance of hitting a mafia. Frankly, though, the only people that give me bad vibes at the moment are Crybaby, Mutant, and Tofuu (This one's harder to explain, but I'll do my best).

Crybaby just seems too aggressive, while it's not a scum trait, it seems like they were trying desperately to pin the lynch on either me or Mutant. Though they were right about Peace, I'm more inclined to believe Crybaby was heavily advocating for Peace as a way to get the townie credit from it.

Then there's Mutant. Though they've been bickering constantly, I don't like that Crybaby went directly to me, despite being in constant argument with Mutant, and having some weak reasoning as to why I was a better candidate for the rope than Mutant (ie. main reason being that I'm a hard player to read; I've presented my case for the first reason, and the second reasoning is not a reason to suspect someone). If Crybaby is truly scum, then the building block for this would be that Crybaby is trying to protect his teammate.

Another point on the both of them is just that their whole argument on D2 seemed like a bunch of BS and it was completely stupid. To me, it seemed like they were arguing just to argue, rather than to form an opinion of each other. Crybaby claimed that it was because they wanted to "Debate [Mutant] on [his] logic," despite that, there is a fraction of the amount of cases where Crybaby breaks down my posts, and Peace's posts, despite Crybaby seemingly breaking down every piece of Mutant's posts. They claimed that my posts "left no room for [Crybaby] to dissect [my] posts" but even after I made a post addressing this, and posts following this, Crybaby still failed to have any sense of an argument towards me.

Crybaby's reasoning for targetting Mutant seems like a way just to argue, just for the heck of it. And to what purpose does it serve? It could mean multiple things, but personally I feel like Crybaby is trying to break any connections between him and Mutant, to prevent any ideas of a connection between the two.

And then, there's Tofuu. This one I don't really have any "evidence" for, it's mainly just a feeling. Instead of providing any reasoning as to why they suspected Peace, they just showed off a bunch of typos and grammar mistakes that Peace made and called it a day. It's also worth noting that Mutant has shown a level of disagreement to Tofuu, which if Mutant and Crybaby are a scum team, that would be the MO that Crybaby and Mutant have followed. He also just seems not to care at all, at one point, he said he did it simply because he was bored.

All of this is hypothetical, and I don't claim that any of this is true. This is my own personal belief based on the way things have gone for the first two days. I am not throwing out suspicions of anyone else, but I want to present my case, and why I find these specific individuals the most suspicious out of the remaining players.

For all of y'all who don't want to read all of this (It's not long but I'll do it anyway)

TL;DR

My own suspicions are directed towards Crybaby, Mutant, and Tofuu because of Crybaby's general aggressiveness towards Mutant specifically, while feigning aggressiveness to myself and Peace. Towards Tofuu, there is no full reasoning, but in general, they haven't contributed much, and seem to just be trying to follow a sense of majority while putting in their own "input," as well as a slight connection with Tofuu and Mutant.

Anyway, I should be heading off to sleep now. The conversation right now is, in my opinion, at a moot point right now. So I'm putting my cards down on the table to generate conversation. Disagree with me, agree with me, do whatever you want. Just don't let other people influence your opinion. Create your own opinion, and only use other's opinions as a reference, not as the holy grail.

ShadowsEdge · 2019-11-08 16:07:19

Alright I'm up now, as per usual I have school soon so I'll be inactive while I'm there.

ILikeTofuuJoe wrote:

Honestly, I don't see how Mutant has disagreed with me except for the post where he questioned me why I did the useless post about Peace's grammar. So where is the slight connection between me and Mutantdevle?

That is exactly why I said the slight connection is there. With Crybaby and Mutant, the argument was entirely BS and had no purpose other than to just argue. Your post about Peace's grammar had no point other than to defame Peace. The reason it's only "slight" is because Crybaby and Mutant is that their MO was to argue to break connections. Mutant said something about your post, and if Mutant is scum, I don't think he would create the same level of aggression to both his partners, hence, he would argue less, but to some degree, with his other partner. This is one of the reasons I don't believe Task is scum, if Mutant does flip scum.

ILikeTofuuJoe wrote:

I'd also like to point out that I've never suspected Peace. Just like I've explained before, that wholee grammar mistakes thing was made onlyy because I feel bored. Why are you so intense about it? I meant nothing to disagree with Peace or suspecting Peace is one of the Mafia members.

This is just from personal experience, just because you say someone is Town doesn't mean that you're definitively Town. Scum can easily claim someone is town and get away with it with free townie points. The fact that you never suspected Peace doesn't remove suspicions from you. This whole situation is more than just the lynch on Peace, it's the motivation behind the lynch.

The idea that I'm being "intense" about everything is false, I said in that same post that these are all just theories to get the discussion going because the only thing going on right now is suspicion on Task, who, I don't find a reason to suspect. As such, I don't claim that any of this is true, it's simply my own opinion and observations of what's going on in the game right now.

I'm not going to comment on your read of Taskmanager, though, because even though I have a town-lean on him, it's not concrete.

To Crybaby, I hope you feel better. The best I can give you is just not to stress too much about it. I don't know if that helps, at all. But, just take it easy.

Anyway, that's all I have to say. If others can provide their input that would be great, because conversation right now is strained and it's kind of worrying me.

ShadowsEdge · 2019-11-09 19:23:09

ILikeTofuuJoe wrote:

I'm argree with a lot of the things that Mutantdevle said because I just felt like that a lot of things he said are fairlyy similar to what I thought.

My reasoning for suspecting you had nothing to do with what you agreed with. In fact, it's quite the opposite, I found it more suspicious that there was a slight amount of tension, even if it was small, it was the only case of that sort of level of tension with Mutant and someone else.

ILikeTofuuJoe wrote:

I don't know where you got your conclusion from, but how does that relate to TaskManager? Is it simply because I posted my scumread on TaskManager so that creates a connectin between me and TaskMAnager which, we are most likely opposite alignments?

It in no way correlates to you, you're the one who brought up Taskmanager AFTER I presented my case against the three of you. The reason I believe Taskmanager is innocent if Mutant is scum is because Mutant knows the way people perceive things. More likely than not, if Mutant is creating a heavy argument against his scum teammate, then the other teammate would likely be behind the scenes, not trying to contribute all to much to prevent a connection towards the two of them. Mutant and Taskmanager have had a heavy argument against each other, and since I find Crybaby more suspicious than Taskmanager, yes, I think that Taskmanager is town. And as I said before, it's all hypothetical.

ILikeTofuuJoe wrote:

So, I am assuming that you are locking the scum team on me, Crybaby, and Mutantdevle. Or, is the scum team model you've made telling you that because TaskManager argued with us, then he is town. If that's the case, then you are probably incorrect. After my anaylization, I think you have the strongest scum read on Crybaby and Mutantdevle and think must be partners. And then you used them as a starting point to find peoplee who argueed with them. But TaskManager did that too. I don't understand why you think that Crybaby and Mutantdevle's argument is BS. Sinsce that is the origin of your entire hypothesis, please tell me why you think the argument is BS.

Partially, I believe you Crybaby, and Mutant are the most suspicious, and I provided a link that could viably connect the three. I don't believe my accusations are all correct, but it's what I believe for the time being. As for why I think Taskmanager is town, and why my logic for him is different, see above.

I think that Crybaby and Mutant are scum partners, regardless of whatever your alignment is, Crybaby and Mutant just give off really weird vibes. I included you into the mix because one, you gave me a bad feeling, and two, I wanted to see what your reaction would be. This whole time, you've been trying to throw the accusations I've put onto you over to Taskmanager more than you've provided your own defense.

As for why I think the Crybaby v. Mutant argument is complete BS: What did it ever accomplish? Look back at the post Crybaby made before lynching me, Crybaby never came up with a solid read on Mutant, and while Mutant did come up with a read on Crybaby, Mutant isn't acting on it. Instead, he finds it better to lynch someone who has had low regard for the game on a hunch, rather than someone he actually scum reads. So in totality, their argument accomplished nothing. It feels like they were arguing just to argue because they wanted to break any connection they had, while keeping distance to prevent any connection between the two.

As directed to Mutant, regardless of if you don't trust Kira, I suggest you vote for whichever you find scummier. If the Mafia know you scum read someone, tomorrow's lynch will likely not include them in the nomination, and we'll be out another townie. The Mafia are completely aware of who is and who isn't put into the nomination, as well as who is and who isn't scum read by the town. If the Town scum reads a specific player who is indeed scum, chances are they won't be placed into the nomination, because they will be able to be lynched that day.

I'm not saying this is completely true, but I'd be more willing to follow a lynch on someone I truly have suspicions for rather than just a hunch. Which is why I never claimed I'd be voting for ILikeToFuuJoe.

ILikeTofuuJoe wrote:

Also, is there any evidence that will disapprove scum!you will put Mutantdevle in to the nominees? I'm seeing you agreeing with Shadows read and giving me pressure to gain townie credits. You are both suspecting me and Mutantdevle are both scum. But you did it later, and ussed Shadow's points to back up your own thinking. Also, you are more aggresive so there must be some motivation behind throwing me into the "nominees" for the mojority lynch today.

I see Taskmanager agreeing with my reads a lot, but I'd rather have Mutant flip than Taskmanager, because Mutant is not only one of the most suspicious players to me, it would essentially provide the most information out of his flip out of anyone. NoNK flipping would also be a plausibility, but considering he just got here, and Mutant flipping would provide more information, I feel like Mutant is a better choice.

I also want to bring all this up:

NoNK wrote:

1: NoNK role PM
2: ZeldaXD Seems to actively be pushing scum agenda with the votes? This is also the first game where he's actually apologizing about inactivity, whereas in all his town games he just lurks and gives no h*cks about what anyone thinks of him. The fact that he's so self aware in this game feels very bad and he probably should be lynched. Also most of his posts aren't actual content, they're just random scummy pop-ins to shade taskmanager
3: Kira lurking and should probably be lynched on that alone. However after having a toxic experience last game it could be understandable that he just wants to play laid back this game and for that reason he's not my top scumread, zelda is. That being said sitting back and riding wagons is scummy lol
4: ShadowsEdge game narrator but apparently he's town because onjit replaced out? I guess I can ride with that for now?
5: ILikeTofuuJoe My heart wants to townlean him for some reason, but I'm having a hard time actually coming up with anything.
6: Slabdrill Unreadable
7: mutantdevle is making the mechanically correct plays I would expect him to be making as town. He suspected shadow on d2, he's voting kira on d3. Can't locktown him because he's a good player but he feels good.
8: eleizibeth -- seems to be kind of sitting back and shading the popular targets. "what are you doing peace lmao" "kirby did you even try to read about the game haha". That's objectively scummy but at the same time I'm not sure if ele is just a weak player who isn't able to generate decent content so for his slot it's a scumlean instead of a hard scumread like zelda because I don't know if he's capable of a decent towngame. That being said, he was being kind of cautious about what he posts - "I don't know what to bring up except conspiracies" (paraphrased) which reminds me of 2B town, though actions speak louder then words so I don't have enough to justify townreading him here
9: Taskmanage ris putting effort into the game, and getting suspected because of it. I feel like he's being set up by mafia as a sacrificial lamb (like how I let town implode in C9++ with kira/jawap/norboy), espescially if zelda flips scum.
LightGreen = town
Yellow = townlean
White = slabdrill tier
Orange = scumlean
red = scum
!vote ZeldaXD

Regardless of any conclusions NoNK came up with, I'm still heavily on the belief that he's suspicious. For one, just the post before this he claimed that I was town because of OGI, but then in his reads list placed me as a townlean. I can live with that, but I find it odd to place someone that you just claimed as Town into a townlean.

Further note on this, he claimed me simply as a "Game Narrator," which is likely due to the fact that I haven't placed a vote on anyone, but I have been far from a Game Narrator this game. Regardless of not placing a vote on someone yet, I've been more active in suspecting players than some other people have been in this game. His read of me was also the only one of two to have question marks, which is complete BS, because it means he's most likely not forming his own opinion of me, and just following what other people are saying.

Little sidenote, this doesn't say all that much (Although, if NoNK is scum, then it might I suppose), I don't like that NoNK put the color for townlean as yellow. Yellow seems more of like a null-suspicion color, yet he claimed it as townlean. I just find it odd.

There's more to his readslist that I'm not including because either, I want to keep it to myself for the time being until I'm for the idea of a NoNK lynch, or the ideas I have against it are weak and don't have much meaning. In general, NoNK's posts thus far have seemed to try and backpedal against what has been said. I brought up Crybaby v. Mutant a lot, and in this reads list, NoNK finally decides to place a concrete read on Mutant, which Crybaby failed to do. And in the opposite direction of the direction Crybaby was initially going. Same goes on my end, where Crybaby had suspicions against me, and then continued to backpedal on them by placing me as a townlean.

Further note onto the whole Mutant and Crybaby thing. Both have had suspicions against each other, but they provided an alternative to each other which they proposed as a better lynch to each other. (Crybaby suspected me and Mutant, and proposed me for the rope; Mutant suspected Crybaby and Kira, and proposed Kira for the rope). Not completely scum-indicative, but it seems like the two of them didn't want to lynch each other, regardless of having some level of suspicion against each other.

Regardless, I'm not dropping my suspicions on NoNK regardless of what his reads are. Crybaby's actions were just weird in general, and though he was having issues with his personal life, his focus was always on Mutant as opposed to me or Peace.

Contrary to NoNK's belief, I will be voting for Mutant. His actions, along with Crybaby's/NoNKs stand out to me as the most objectively suspicious. Mutant's flip would showcase information for Taskmanager, NoNK, and possibly ILikeToFuuJoe. Whether or not anyone follows is up to the beholder, but I've presented my case against Mutant, multiple times.

!vote Mutantdevle

While Mutant is a powerful player as Town, this game he hasn't been as much so, and it's something I've noticed. He's gotten so caught up in Crybaby v. Mutant, that his only suspicions lead him to Crybaby, and he refuses to act on it, as well. The only other argument he has against anyone is Kira, and his logic for that is utter BS. He's basing it off of a hunch, to what seems like avoiding to vote for a fellow teammate. Mutant did have an argument with Taskmanager, but Mutant never made any tell on Taskmanager for it, so I don't consider it a suspicion. In general, he doesn't seem like he wants to solve the game as he usually does, and for that reason I feel like by lynching him we wouldn't lose as much as if Mutant was more involved in the investigations.

Something to note for all of y'all, since this day has been super inactive, we have roughly 14.5 hours left until day ends. So I suggest all of you guys contibute to the conversation and come up with a verdict on who to lynch. While nolynching is an option (I believe), we have to rely on the odd days for a better chance of getting at scum, since Nomination days do not guarantee that we will be able to get scum.

ShadowsEdge · 2019-11-09 19:31:32

Onto the last post, sorry people I forgot to put it in a spoiler, when I was writing it I didn't expect it to be that long.

And I'll include a little TL;DR on this post here:

> Reasons against ILikeToFuuJoe should be read in the post. (Sorry).
> Crybaby v. Mutant is BS because it brought about nothing, in terms of Crybaby's reads, and Mutant's actions towards Crybaby.
> I'd rather have Mutant flip than Taskmanager, because I find Mutant more suspicious, and Mutant's flip would provide more information than Taskmanager or Crybaby flipping.
> NoNK's reads in general give me a weird vibe because of the way he placed me, the way he colored the reads (Getting into the nitty gritty here I suppose), and the fact that his reads list is the ONLY instance where Crybaby/NoNK has made a viable read on anyone, as well as a 180 on the suspicions against me and Mutant.
> I'm not dropping my suspicions of NoNK regardless of whatever reads he came up with, and my vote is going to Mutant, because his actions have been some of the most suspicious, as well as looking for possible connections that could be revealed by his flip.
> Lynching Mutant won't lose as much for the town, this game, because Mutant has seemed to back off from trying to solve the game, as the only true suspicion he's had against anyone is Crybaby. Everyone else he's townleaning on or is null to him. (He included Kira too, but his reasoning is BS on that, so it seems like a way to avoid voting for Crybaby).

I still suggest you read the post, regardless of if it is a long post, because I explain this stuff more thoroughly there, but I'm set on my position of voting for Mutant. Regardless of if anyone else is willing to follow me in it, I find Mutant the best candidate for today.

ShadowsEdge · 2019-11-09 19:31:54

I got friggin ninja'd by Slabdrill

ShadowsEdge · 2019-11-09 19:33:30

Slabdrill wrote:

also shadows nolynching is not an option, this game has compulsory voting

Does day go into overtime on odd days too? I thought that was only for Even Days where it was required to vote for someone.

ShadowsEdge · 2019-11-09 19:34:46

Oh yeah I'm just stupid, sorry I read the rules. It's required to lynch everyday. All of the people who haven't said anything need to start talking, because we have around 14 hours to make a decision, and with a tie in place right now, the Mafia can simply vote for whoever they like to get rid of them.

ShadowsEdge · 2019-11-09 21:54:37

NoNK wrote:

yikes
!vote Kira

You realize that you're tying the votes by voting for Kira?

ShadowsEdge · 2019-11-09 22:17:25

I've explained multiple times why I found Mutant the best lynch for today, if you haven't seen it from my posts talking about it then I assume you really aren't paying attention to this game. But to sum it up:

> Mutant hasn't been trying to solve the game. The only clear suspicion he's had against anyone is against Crybaby/NoNK.
> Mutant isn't acting on his suspicion of Crybaby/NoNK and instead offered a counterlynch against someone who he only has a hunch against.
> Mutant has a connection to Crybaby/NoNK with the BS argument on D2, and since I find Crybaby/NoNK suspicious, by the connection in their regard, I therefore find Mutant suspicious.

Ok so I just messed around with a bunch of colors, because I got interested if there were some alternatives to the Green and Light Green, and apparently there's a lot more colors that BBCode supports than I thought. Just some few that I tried out: Cyan, Teal, Seagreen, Yellowgreen, Lime. Did not know that all these sort of colors were supported on here. I always thought it was the basic "Red, Orange, Yellow, Green, Blue, Purple" sort of colors. So pretty neat they have all those.
Transparent text is always the way to go with town reads, though.
I will say that I don't deny that Zelda is acting inherently scummy, but I still believe in the scumminess of Mutant. The fact that you're trying to deter the lynch to Zelda, despite agreeing just now that Mutant is scummy, worries me. I'll think it over whether I agree on Zelda, but for now I plan on sticking to Mutant.

ShadowsEdge · 2019-11-09 23:40:43

mutantdevle wrote:

Shadow for the record your reasons for finding me scummy are embarrassingly stupid.

In what way are they stupid?

mutantdevle wrote:

ShadowsEdge wrote:
> Mutant hasn't been trying to solve the game.
Not true.

Your response to my first accusation provides no substantial information on the topic. It's simply saying that my accusation is false. But if it's false, then you should surely be able to provide instances where you have been trying to solve the game, right? If you are of the belief you have been trying to solve the game, then show evidence, your rebuttal is weak because it has no grounds, it's just you saying that I'm wrong and saying nothing to it.

mutantdevle wrote:

ShadowsEdge wrote:
The only clear suspicion he's had against anyone is against Crybaby/NoNK.
Not true.

Again, your rebuttal to my claim is weak. You provide no evidence showing off instances where you have suspected other players. I've said that you have, specifically Kira, but the only one you've provided viable evidence for is Crybaby/NoNK. I'm explaining my reasons for my claims, and showing why I believe them. You're simply saying my claims are false, calling it a day and hoping that I'll change my mind because of a simple "You're wrong."

mutantdevle wrote:

ShadowsEdge wrote:
Mutant isn't acting on his suspicion of Crybaby/NoNK and instead offered a counterlynch against someone who he only has a hunch against.
Kinda true.

You agree with this one, but only to a degree. Similarly to the other reasonings, you dont explain your motives, you dont provide any evidence, you just say your response to it, simple at that, and call it a day.

mutantdevle wrote:

ShadowsEdge wrote:
Mutant has a connection to Crybaby/NoNK with the BS argument on D2, and since I find Crybaby/NoNK suspicious, by the connection in their regard, I therefore find Mutant suspicious.
I find it completely hilarious that you think I'd use this method to create distance between myself and a scum partner rather than something much more efficient that I wouldn't have to waste hours of my life on.

C'mon Mutant, you know that's not how Mafia works. You're trying to put doubt into my reason by saying "But would I do this?" That's the most scummiest way you could go about trying to defend yourself. You never just expect someone to do what they always do, because then it becomes a habit, you can easily change habits, and throw off the entire game, especially with your experience, I definitely wouldn't put it past your ability.

Your response to my claims just seems like a way to disregard them, without even putting in the effort to put in any reasoning as to why you believe they're false (Thus further proving the not been trying to solve the game claim). And the only substantial part of your entire post seems to just be a reason to discredit me.

My reasons for scum-reading you are not "embarrassingly stupid," because you give no evidence to disprove why you're not scum.

mutantdevle wrote:

Here's a fun fact for you, at no point did I ever properly conclude Crybaby was scum (though I wanted him to think that I had).

You literally made a part of your post concluding that you scumread him:

mutantdevle wrote:

Now here's why I scum read you Crybaby:
- You have stated that you also think that the pool is likely to be all town.
- This means that you agree with my conclusion but not with my reasoning.
- You then attack and try to disprove my reasoning.
- As town, you'd have no reason to do this. So what if my logic is flawed? It results in the same reads as you.
- Why would you try to debate me on my reads if you agree with my reads?
- All of your comments towards my theories seem to be made with the intention of either trying to get me to reconsider my reads / have anyone reading the argument think I'm scum for the way I've formed my reads.
- Why would you want me to reconsider my reads if you agree with them?
- Why would you want people to think I'm scum if you think I'm town?
- If you didn't agree with my reads, and instead thought that Shadow or peace were mafia, then I'd understand you trying to deconstruct my opinion to this level. But at the moment, based on what you've said of your own opinions, you are just arguing for the sake of arguing.
- You've seemingly picked up a mantra that you want people to think for themselves so you provide them with theories that you don't believe in (things they can easily think about themselves without you needing to point them out).
- It's like you don't want people to come to the same conclusion that you did.
- This LAMIST approach of "I'm not influencing people's opinions!" just looks like attempts to look busy and contribute to the game without really adding anything.
- Everything you've done just feels like a setup to put enough doubt into Shadow and I that after today's lynch it would be reasonable to still consider us for lynches later on.

If you're approach was to make him "think" that you had scum-read him, instead of actually scum-reading him, then why would you put the effort into creating an entire list dedicated to why you scum-read Crybaby.

mutantdevle wrote:

Voting Crybaby before I've reached a conclusion just for the sake of appearances is not useful. Because my scum read of Kira isn't based on his words but rather his lack of content, voting is the only thing I can do to prompt said content. As of yet he hasn't done anything townie so I have no reason to remove my vote from him.

I prompted you to vote for Crybaby today. You could have easily made a conclusion, you made a conclusion on Crybaby before, claiming that you scum-read them (See the quote above). But instead of voting for Crybaby/NoNK, you deterred the vote over to Kira, because of... a lack of content? What reason do you have to vote for someone that hasn't said much over someone that you LITERALLY claimed as scum.

mutantdevle wrote:

Also, if you haven't noticed, Crybaby and I weren't finished when he replaced out. Our debate was cut short and the replacement entirely **** up trying to resolve my read because NoNK can't answer for Crybaby.

Crybaby was the one who cut the debate short, not because of replacing out. Crybaby replaced out D3 iirc. The debate stopped because Crybaby started a lynch against me, and thus changed the course of the debate. It was not cut short because of Crybaby's replacement, but instead because of Crybaby's intent.

mutantdevle wrote:

For now I'm ignoring my opinion of Crybaby in order to form a new read on NoNK, but that's not to say I won't use Crybaby's actions to form a final read on the slot later on.

Bad idea. But whatever floats your boat man.

I don't agree with the narrative of Zelda's position, simply because the two people I scum-read the most are both for the lynch, which could mean multiple things, but highest regards in my opinion is that:

> Zelda is town, and we're helping the scum team with their lynch, hence why it's being more supported.
> Zelda is being bussed by his teammates.

There is the chance that my reads are wrong, but until I'm proven wrong, or until Mutant and NoNK can provide me with a real reason to why I shouldn't be putting them up for the hammer, I'm standing my ground.

ShadowsEdge · 2019-11-09 23:42:08

Flip I forgot to do the spoiler again. Sorry.

ShadowsEdge · 2019-11-09 23:48:31

mutantdevle wrote:

Dear god shadow you sound like Crybaby

If that's the case, it's because you're not giving me reason to believe you're not scum. You're providing only evidence to further support the claim that you are scum. Provide evidence, debate on it, show ANY reason to believe you aren't scum. Because thus far, you've not provided a single claim that can actually be used in your favor.

ShadowsEdge · 2019-11-10 00:49:30

▼Hidden text

mutantdevle wrote:

▼Hidden text
mutantdevle wrote:
Do you disagree that I'm a player that's generally considered harder to lynch? What do you think would be the reason that mafia would put me in the pool assuming I am town?
mutantdevle wrote:
Why then is it so hard to believe that I'd come to this conclusion as quickly as I did? In fact, why do you even think it's so hard to come to instant conclusions, is that something you don't consider possible?
mutantdevle wrote:
Was it? Please point out where I lied.
mutantdevle wrote:
Okay, what's your point?
mutantdevle wrote:
However, do you think ShadowsEdge is mafia?
mutantdevle wrote:
Okay. Do you believe this? If so, why? If not, then why do you feel the need to bring up something you don't even agree with in order to try and discredit my read?
mutantdevle wrote:
If you believe this, why do you criticise me for coming to this conclusion? Especially when you're clearly of the mindset that I'd think 3 town in the scum pool is the optimal way for the scum to play. This isn't actually what I think, but the fact that you believed it was calls into question why you didn't then think that this could be my reason for thinking that all the people in the pool are town.
mutantdevle wrote:
It isn't fair on who? Why am I not allowed to form a read based on something that very clearly implicates Shadow as town, do you expect me to just ignore it?
mutantdevle wrote:
What was the motivation behind your post? Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think you've formed any reads based on your close analysis of my post which begs the question, what was the point?
mutantdevle wrote:
Basically, what I'm trying to ask is: why should I, or anyone else for that matter, not scum read you for this post by you when your aim was seemingly not to form your own reads but rather discredit mine?
mutantdevle wrote:
Why does experience affect how quickly you can come to conclusions? Surely all it affects is how accurate your conclusions may be.
mutantdevle wrote:
Why are you so insistent that I shouldn't be making those kinds of conclusions?
mutantdevle wrote:
You've just clipped out the part where I explain the difference between a lie and a mistake to continue pushing your narrative that I lied. Shame on you.
mutantdevle wrote:
So basically it could be WIFOM? You think the mafia would put me with peace banking on the idea that people would lynch me instead of him out of WIFOM? Sure, that is something that is possible, but do you really think that's likely? Do you really think that's the way that mafia would try to get me lynched?
mutantdevle wrote:
I don't see how what peace has done today has any relevance to my point. My point is that peace looks obviously scum when he is scum. Unless you're trying to argue that you're scum reading peace based on his behaviour today?
mutantdevle wrote:
Why am I not allowed to conclude that peace is town? Why is that something that bothers you? I'm not 100% assuming anything about peace I've just settled on the conclusion that he is town.
Also, do you have any evidence as to why you think the mafia are likely to want me to think peace is town?
mutantdevle wrote:
If you really want us to think for ourselves then why have you spent several long posts telling me I'm not allowed to think the things I do?
mutantdevle wrote:
If you think the optimal strategy is to put 3 town in the pool. And you think I would be fully aware of this. Why did you question the fact that I considered all 3 players in the pool to be town? You did not know at the time that this wasn't my reason for thinking this. Yet you criticised me with seemingly full confidence that I had no reason to be town reading the entire pool. If you genuinely believe all this, and it's not just stuff you made up on the spot in order to criticise my post, why is it that this wasn't something that crossed your mind as to my potential reasoning?
mutantdevle wrote:
So what is the point?
mutantdevle wrote:
What was the point of mentioning it? Also, given that you agree that the chances everyone is in the pool is town, why are you criticising me for coming to same conclusion and why aren't you willing to commit to reading us as town?
mutantdevle wrote:
Why is me being in the pool a reason to discredit everything I have to say? Is your point that since I'm in the pool nothing I say is worthy of any trust and that you should just ignore my opinions? Investigate my logic, sure. **** all over it, claim it's baseless, accuse me of lying, and shade me every chance you get? That's not simple investigating. You clearly have other motives.
mutantdevle wrote:
I was hoping that your answer to this question would be an explanation as to the town motivation behind you criticising and pulling apart my posts in the way that you are. But so far you've not provided an adequate explanation as to the purpose of your posting.
mutantdevle wrote:
▼Hidden text
Crybaby wrote:
How do you know that you are correct, or how did you learn that you are? This is a legitimate question, not an attack. Because if there is some sort of pool of evidence that you're drawing from, then I would love to study it. Unless that was just a figure of speech, in which case, I will ignore the first sentence.
You say that intuition led you to believe the Mafia would not put one of their own as a nominee with you and Peace. This is another conclusion I find oddly specific. Given that it's based off of intuition, I don't think that conclusion is foolproof- you don't either.
I was referring to being correct about both I and peace being in the lynch pool. I don't think that mafia would put themselves in a pool with myself and peace because I don't think that the mindset of putting us in a pool together also leads to putting one of your own in the pool.
Crybaby wrote:
I'm going to ignore that I don't agree with the evidence that otherwise townclears Shadow for a bit. There still isn't any super solid evidence that confirms you as town, aside from the likeliest scenario in my opinion that the nominees today are all town. Again, my disagreement on Onjit's intentions aside, you're the greatest unknown in this scenario. Besides intuitions, there has been nothing to grasp to gain a solid read on you until our discussion picked up.
Assuming you're issue with trying to read me based on my theories is that you can't reliably tell if my intuition is genuine or just made up. Instead, think about what motivation I'd have as either alignment for the explanations that I've given. As mafia why would I make this stuff up?
Crybaby wrote:
You ever come across a weird instance in a math test where you use the incorrect formula to solve a problem, but by chance, you get the right answer anyway? This is why I attacked and tried to disprove your reasoning.
I don't think the maths analogy is relevant considering in school showing the workings out is a vital part of getting marks/grades and in professional application proving it the correct way is part of getting it accepted. In mafia that simply does not matter; only whether or not the conclusion is mafia getting lynched is the important bit (not to mention that maths is a process of right as wrong whereas mafia is about subjectivity). And none of this really justifies you approaching my opinions the way you did. What I'd expect from someone who is town who disagrees with my logic but agrees with my conclusion is a simple statement expressing disagreement and, optionally, a desire to understand my thought process. Though that seems to be the way you are approaching it now, your original approach was to dismantle every aspect of my words that you could and shade me for it.
Crybaby wrote:
I think that it is flawed, and even though we come to the same conclusions today, that does not mean we will come to the same conclusions in the future.
Nothing about your original post would suggest this was your motivation. You were clearly not trying to empathise with me and make sure our logic was consistent with each other; you were blatantly trying to discredit me.
Crybaby wrote:
Mutant, you're a strong player, wouldn't you say? You have a lot of outstanding experience in this game. Your words are a lot more easier to trust, because they come from someone who has experience in the game. Perhaps, even, people might try to emulate your playstyle to better themselves at the game. I don't want people to mindlessly just take your logic and reasoning at face value and believe it as if they are rules or something like that. I provided my own alternative viewpoint. It is not up to me to decide if people believe it or not. Some already seem to, some seem to disbelieve it. It's more like I'm checking you.
You must think pretty lowly of everyone here's intelligence to think that they'd be taking everything I have to say at face value. It's not necessary for you to tell everyone that they should be reading into everything I have to say rather than just accepting it since that's the whole point of the game and nobody here is new. Furthermore, there's a difference between simply checking my logic and **** all over it like you did. It's like the difference between pointing out a computer is broken vs taking it apart to show everyone all the broken pieces (and stamping on them in the process).
Crybaby wrote:
I am trying to debate you on your logic.
Why? What is your motivation behind that and why is that motivation townie?
Crybaby wrote:
I am trying to get you to reconsider the process you used to acquire your reads. Your leans today just so happen to be the same as mine, so why would I tell others to scum read you for them when they're the same? I'm trying to debate with your logic.
Please tell me how this list of quotes is you trying to get me to reconsider the process I used to acquire my reads:
▼Aggressive Quotes
Crybaby wrote:
Oh, really? Is that so?
Crybaby wrote:
Well, that was a **** lie.
Crybaby wrote:
Really? Because we don't.
Crybaby wrote:
You've gots a lots of 'splainin' to do Mr. Mutant.
Crybaby wrote:
You aren't so hard to lynch anymore, Mutant. If you make yourself out to be the scummiest player in a game like this, where a lynch is required every single day, then it's very likely that you can die, so don't be so reckless.
Crybaby wrote:
Explain.
Crybaby wrote:
Yeah champ?
Crybaby wrote:
I think not.
Crybaby wrote:
Mutant started out today immediately playing the bus game.
Crybaby wrote:
they have weakly argued
Crybaby wrote:
it's like you didn't even think about the selections.
Crybaby wrote:
Absolutely not. You're smarter than that, Mutant.
Crybaby wrote:
Do not tie yourself to him. You and him are two entirely separate players.
Crybaby wrote:
I can explain my conclusions with evidence. Where is yours?
Most of what you said to me was either emotively-aggressive, passive-aggressive or, at times, condescending. What part of that is you trying to help me better my logic? You also label my logic as scummy and use adjectives like 'weak' to describe it. Stop pretending that you're somehow being neutral as to 'not tell people what to think' because you are certainly implying what they should be thinking about my opinions.
Crybaby wrote:
That does sound reasonable. Living today does not clear you of all charges. We have had instances in past Mafia games where someone who was high-profile before a deciding lynch lived to see the next day, and then something happened that took the town's attention away from that person, and then the high-profile that person had attained was suddenly forgotten. It's happened with TaskManager and (ironically) Shadow within memory. I said on day 1 that just being nominated does not town clear you. If it wasn't fairly obvious, living an even-numbered night doesn't town clear you either. So, I have no problem with this point you made at all.
My point is that it feels like you're actively wanting people to think we could be mafia rather than just saying it shouldn't be ruled out.
Crybaby wrote:
I think Onjit's story is a burning pile of ash.
What makes you say this? Why would you think Onjit would lie and also replace out of a game just so that the scum team would win without him?

Finally, I'm also interested in why your approach towards me has changed from aggressive shading to being more diplomatic?
mutantdevle wrote:
Why? What is your motivation behind that and why is that motivation townie?
mutantdevle wrote:
What makes you say this? Why would you think Onjit would lie and also replace out of a game just so that the scum team would win without him?

Finally, I'm also interested in why your approach towards me has changed from aggressive shading to being more diplomatic?
mutantdevle wrote:
ILikeTofuuJoe wrote:
I can't I just spent 20 minutes on catching Peace's errors.
So why did you?
mutantdevle wrote:
TaskManager what is it about my opening posts this game that you suspect is scum motivated?

Also, I'd like to point out that Kira's iso is trash and I'd probably lynch him before Crybaby if he doesn't post anything substantial.
mutantdevle wrote:
TaskManager wrote:
Again, it's how you rushed the voting at the start of a day
I'm trying to establish what exactly about that you find scummy though?
mutantdevle wrote:
ZeldaXD wrote:
Alright I'm done with today's exam which means I should be able to contribute.
So why aren't you?
Are you waiting for us to give you something to comment on? Because if you currently have nothing to say then that's kinda worrying.
mutantdevle wrote:
Is there something you find inherently scummy about coming to quick decisions?

While I don't disagree that these do seem like you're trying to solve the game, it doesn't disprove the other part of the claim I made:

ShadowsEdge wrote:

> Mutant hasn't been trying to solve the game. The only clear suspicion he's had against anyone is against Crybaby/NoNK.

My reasoning for believing that you're not trying to solve the game is because your focus is completely on Crybaby/NoNK. The only other instance of a suspicion was Kira, which I provided my reasoning for why I didn't consider it a "suspicion."

All the questions and instances that you've provided of you "Solving the game" have been directed towards Crybaby/NoNK. Your focus has been primarily on Crybaby, and though they were your main scumread, you ditched it all to go for a lynch against Kira or Zelda.

Despite saying you have reason to suspect Kira, and that they're your "Main Scumread," you didn't include evidence of you actively trying to question their motives, nor instances of you trying to get a reaction out of them. Your questioning of Crybaby has been different than your investigation of Kira, yet you more heavily believe Kira is scum, rather than Crybaby/NoNK despite your own suspicions of them, and my presentation of my suspicions against them.

mutantdevle wrote:

ShadowsEdge wrote:
You're trying to put doubt into my reason by saying "But would I do this?" That's the most scummiest way you could go about trying to defend yourself.
It's not a case of why would I do this, moreso why would anyone do this? It's a completely illogical way of going about the game.

Expect the unexpected, for one. But just because something is an "illogical way of going about the game" doesn't mean it's instantly a reason to disregard it. Furthermore, it's not illogical, creating arguments is fundamentally the easiest way to break a connection between players in Mafia. It's not always successful, but it's the most commonly used method of doing so. Regardless of the magnitude of both of your posts, it's still an argument at heart, and that's the basis for my reasoning.

mutantdevle wrote:

1.) To reinforce the idea that I do scum read him.

You're literally contradicting yourself now:

mutantdevle wrote:

I didn't fully scum read Crybaby.

If you don't fully have reason to scumread Crybaby, then why would you feel the need to reinforce the idea that you scumread him? Furthermore, what reason would you need to do so regardless? The argument in general showcases that you have a scumread on Crybaby regardless of whatever conclusion you came up with, because if you believed he was town, more likely than not, you would not have continued the argument with Crybaby, nor would you have tried questioning Crybaby.

I don't have any opinion for or against the second or third reasonings.

mutantdevle wrote:

Voting for kira was a more useful thing to do with my vote whilst I figured Crybaby out.

My gripe with it isn't the fact that you're using your vote to vote for Kira for investigation. You've said that you wanted to put pressure on Kira. But you aren't actively investigating Kira, you simply put a vote on them, said some reasonings that didn't mean much, and then called it that. If you were trying to use your vote more usefully, you would be actively investigating Kira, trying to figure out their alignment, but instead you just changed the vote to Kira, without providing much onto it other than you wanted to put pressure on them.

That's the reason I believe you were just trying to switch the vote, rather than gauge a reaction. You had a tell on Crybaby, which you could have acted on, but you decided to go for Kira, claiming that it was for the sake of pressuring them, yet the vote was virtually the only amount of pressure on them you have.

mutantdevle wrote:

If you're just going to dismiss both of those things due to your bias against me then there is no point in asking about them.

I'm not dismissing your points because of any "Bias" I have against you. I've stated my reasonings, multiple times. You want to claim that it's a bias, then go along with it. But my reasonings against you have nothing to do with a bias.

mutantdevle wrote:

This is the probably I have with your case against me and why I find it stupid. Almost all of the things you've said against me can only be refuted by "you're wrong" (because you are wrong).

Or maybe I'm right, and you can't refute it because my case is accurate? I've presented my reasonings, and exactly where I got the reasonings from, if you want to refute it, by all means, go ahead. I presented my reasonings and sources so that you could refute it if you wanted to, knowing where I got my evidence from. Yet you only claimed my evidence and reasoning were false, and left it at that.

mutantdevle wrote:

ShadowsEdge wrote:
I prompted you to vote for Crybaby today. You could have easily made a conclusion, you made a conclusion on Crybaby before, claiming that you scum-read them (See the quote above). But instead of voting for Crybaby/NoNK, you deterred the vote over to Kira, because of... a lack of content? What reason do you have to vote for someone that hasn't said much over someone that you LITERALLY claimed as scum.
I literally give you explanations to both of these that you ignore to ask this question.
I didn't fully scum read Crybaby.
Voting for kira was a more useful thing to do with my vote whilst I figured Crybaby out.
If you're just going to dismiss both of those things due to your bias against me then there is no point in asking about them.

This is the probably I have with your case against me and why I find it stupid. Almost all of the things you've said against me can only be refuted by "you're wrong" (because you are wrong).
If you don't already see that I've been game solving, if you don't already see why I voted for Kira, if you don't believe me on my stance on Crybaby, why does me pointing any of it out/repeating it, stuff you've already looked at for yourself and made judgements on, make any difference?

It makes a difference because it's the key factor of whether or not I'm going to continue with my lynch on you. I've said before, all I'm looking for is a viable reason to not put you up for the hammer. But despite that, you've continued to just throw shade on my case, and use that to boost your standings.

I told you I wanted you to debate with me, show me a reason to not suspect you, because I wanted something to work with to see both sides of the case. But all your reasonings haven't thrown me to believing in your townness, and instead, push me more to believing that you're scum.

mutantdevle wrote:

I was very clearly still questioning Crybaby after he voted for you in this post. He never had the opportunity to respond to me.

Missed that. My bad.

NoNK wrote:

Literally in what world does town just say "well I'm dead" and proceed to not vote on the counterwagon knowing lylo is imminent

I did it on Universe Mafia. Not during LyLo, ofc, but I was town and went with the idea that I was inevitably going to be lynched, despite not being lynched.

I'm still against lynching Zelda. I don't disagree with the suspicion against him, but the fact that his lynch is building up so quickly bothers me. Especially since the case against him has less substantial standings than cases I've provided. As well as both of the people I scum read are on board for the lynch.

I'm not reconsidering my vote for you, Mutant. I presented my case, asked you for a reason to believe that you aren't scum, but you stuck with the argument that my case is stupid, and chose to discredit my own logic instead of trying to provide some sense of reasoning of believing why you shouldn't take the rope.

I still feel Mutant should take the hammer. I have suspicions on Mutant, and his flip would ultimate provide the most information out of everyone (On NoNK, Taskmanager, ILikeToFuuJoe (Only slightly), ZeldaXD, as well as myself, if you wish). Take it as bias if you want, Mutant, but my case has nothing to do with bias, you're simply the one I find the most scummy, and your actions just add to that narrative.

ShadowsEdge · 2019-11-10 02:03:32

Zelda, can you say your opinion on the situation? I think it'd be helpful for everyone to know what your standings on everyone are.

rat

ShadowsEdge · 2019-11-10 05:57:04

I'll probably present more opinions of Zelda's reads later on, but I still don't get how I'm still being perceived as a "Game Narrator." I suppose it's a curse at this point.

Most of Zelda's reads are suspicions and nulls, which is kind of worrying. But I'll get more into that later on, iirc, there's not long left in the day, and I don't have intention to switch my vote over to anyone else, so posting a bunch of my thoughts about Zelda today wouldn't bring about much. I will, however, talk more on it tomorrow.

ShadowsEdge · 2019-11-11 18:43:27

Alright I'm up and I got friggin nominated again. I'm just gonna respond to a few things here.

I was wrong about Mutant, but I never said 100% that he was going to flip scum. I said that I had suspicions against him, and he was the person I found the most suspicious. He also had ties to NoNK, and others where, if he flipped mafia, I would likely believe that NoNK is mafia.

I don't holistically believe NoNK is town, but most of my suspicions against NoNK came from the basis of his connection to Mutant, so for the moment I don't have any concrete suspicions against him.

And I want to say, I believe 100% that I am meant to be the lynch bait, not Ele. I was the one who voiced my opinion about Mutant, pushed it, and turned out to be wrong. If that doesn't make me suspicious, then I don't know what does. The Mafia probably realize this, and put me in the pool so I would be the one to be lynched.

ILikeToFuuJoe was suspicious to me on Day 2, although, when I looked back, the only thing that stood out to me was that when I was focusing on him, he decided to change the directive towards Taskmanager:

ILikeTofuuJoe wrote:

▼Hidden text
ShadowsEdge wrote:
Whew boy, there's not a lot going on today, so this post might not have a whole lotta content. Sorry.
We have 9 players left, 3 of which are mafia. Objectively there is a 1 in 3 chance that whoever we lynch is mafia. By this, I mean multiple things, firstly, don't be cocky. We have 3 chances of getting scum before batter batter and we're out. But at the same time, there's a relatively high likelihood that whoever we lynch will be Mafia, so don't be too shy to present your case.
I know my own position, whether others choose to trust me on that position is in the eye of the beholder, so with my own position, I see a 3 in 8 chance of hitting a mafia. Frankly, though, the only people that give me bad vibes at the moment are Crybaby, Mutant, and Tofuu (This one's harder to explain, but I'll do my best).
Crybaby just seems too aggressive, while it's not a scum trait, it seems like they were trying desperately to pin the lynch on either me or Mutant. Though they were right about Peace, I'm more inclined to believe Crybaby was heavily advocating for Peace as a way to get the townie credit from it.
Then there's Mutant. Though they've been bickering constantly, I don't like that Crybaby went directly to me, despite being in constant argument with Mutant, and having some weak reasoning as to why I was a better candidate for the rope than Mutant (ie. main reason being that I'm a hard player to read; I've presented my case for the first reason, and the second reasoning is not a reason to suspect someone). If Crybaby is truly scum, then the building block for this would be that Crybaby is trying to protect his teammate.
Another point on the both of them is just that their whole argument on D2 seemed like a bunch of BS and it was completely stupid. To me, it seemed like they were arguing just to argue, rather than to form an opinion of each other. Crybaby claimed that it was because they wanted to "Debate [Mutant] on [his] logic," despite that, there is a fraction of the amount of cases where Crybaby breaks down my posts, and Peace's posts, despite Crybaby seemingly breaking down every piece of Mutant's posts. They claimed that my posts "left no room for [Crybaby] to dissect [my] posts" but even after I made a post addressing this, and posts following this, Crybaby still failed to have any sense of an argument towards me.
Crybaby's reasoning for targetting Mutant seems like a way just to argue, just for the heck of it. And to what purpose does it serve? It could mean multiple things, but personally I feel like Crybaby is trying to break any connections between him and Mutant, to prevent any ideas of a connection between the two.
And then, there's Tofuu. This one I don't really have any "evidence" for, it's mainly just a feeling. Instead of providing any reasoning as to why they suspected Peace, they just showed off a bunch of typos and grammar mistakes that Peace made and called it a day. It's also worth noting that Mutant has shown a level of disagreement to Tofuu, which if Mutant and Crybaby are a scum team, that would be the MO that Crybaby and Mutant have followed. He also just seems not to care at all, at one point, he said he did it simply because he was bored.
All of this is hypothetical, and I don't claim that any of this is true. This is my own personal belief based on the way things have gone for the first two days. I am not throwing out suspicions of anyone else, but I want to present my case, and why I find these specific individuals the most suspicious out of the remaining players.
For all of y'all who don't want to read all of this (It's not long but I'll do it anyway)
TL;DR
My own suspicions are directed towards Crybaby, Mutant, and Tofuu because of Crybaby's general aggressiveness towards Mutant specifically, while feigning aggressiveness to myself and Peace. Towards Tofuu, there is no full reasoning, but in general, they haven't contributed much, and seem to just be trying to follow a sense of majority while putting in their own "input," as well as a slight connection with Tofuu and Mutant.
Anyway, I should be heading off to sleep now. The conversation right now is, in my opinion, at a moot point right now. So I'm putting my cards down on the table to generate conversation. Disagree with me, agree with me, do whatever you want. Just don't let other people influence your opinion. Create your own opinion, and only use other's opinions as a reference, not as the holy grail.
Honestly, I don't see how Mutant has disagreed with me except for the post where he questioned me why I did the useless post about Peace's grammar. So where is the slight connection between me and Mutantdevle? Also, I've only played like 10 games of mafia including the games I've played on mafiascum. I don't see why following the majority is anything scumish forr a newbie like me. I'd also like to point out that I've never suspected Peace. Just like I've explained before, that wholee grammar mistakes thing was made onlyy because I feel bored. Why are you so intense about it? I meant nothing to disagree with Peace or suspecting Peace is one of the Mafia members.
Right now, I am seeing that TaskManager is semi-aggresive to Mutantdevle. Since Mutantdevle was one of the nominees on Day 2, TaskManager might be thinking to push the lynch on Mutantdevle or someone else. This is a scummy action as how TaskManager pushed the whole policy lynch wagon on KirbyKareem and how he made the L-1 vote on Peace. From how he said he wanted the remaining twenty hours to end, I interpret TaskManager cannot wait for Day 3 to comee so he can do something. From the start of the day, I think that action might be trying to push the wagon on a strong town player. My read on TaskManager is scum-lean.

I looked back through D2, also. ILikeToFuuJoe seemed to be heavily focused on Taskmanager. Most of his posts included some piece about Taskmanager. And now the incentive just seems to be gone because he's focusing on NoNK.

TaskManager wrote:

Given that Shadow pushed Mutant's lynch so badly, I'm not so sure about him being town anymore and even though he's getting nominated second time, I feel neutral about his alignment

Just a little question, what do you mean that I "pushed Mutant's lynch so badly?" Are you referring to the general motivation/process of it, or are you referring to the outcome?

As for Slab and Kira, I do agree with the assessment, but it's mainly because they both seemed to sheep other people's opinions (Kira's on mine, and Slab's on Crybaby's). And they did it in close proximity to each other, and near the end of the day.

There's not a lot going on yet. I just woke up a little bit ago so I'm still a bit out of it, so I'll probably say more stuff later on.

ShadowsEdge · 2019-11-11 19:58:36

Not the way I meant to come off. But I still stand by the things I said.

ShadowsEdge · 2019-11-11 20:03:18

Are you asking me that question? Or someone else?

ShadowsEdge · 2019-11-12 00:41:01

NoNK wrote:

ShadowsEdge wrote:
Are you asking me that question? Or someone else?
yes

I don't have any hardcore opinions on anyone being mafia yet. I do agree on your opinions of Kira and Slab, but I want to be able to go through all of it myself to make that opinion. I'll likely go through iso's later on and make a more clear opinion for you there. (Can't right now, because I have to go somewhere after I make this post.)

TaskManager wrote:

ShadowsEdge wrote:
Just a little question, what do you mean that I "pushed Mutant's lynch so badly?" Are you referring to the general motivation/process of it, or are you referring to the outcome?
The process
I'm not blaming you alone for the outcome, but I'm blaming you for the role that you had in making this happen, that is writing long paragraphs with some logically weak points (I'm saying "some" because I didn't read all of it)

Alright. I won't argue that some of the points were weak. But the main bulk of the lynch was to see Mutant's flip, and mostly looking for red. Because if Mutant was scum, it would've revealed other information. It still will reveal information, despite turning green, but I'd need to go through everything again. But like I said before, doing that later.

Sorry to have to keep this post short. I have to get going now, but I'll try to make the time later on to go through iso's, and my thoughts on Mutant's flip.

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#1 2019-11-02 22:32:30, last edited by Norwee (2019-11-14 15:31:36)