Mafia 31 [Mafia Win]

Onjit · 2019-09-21 03:20:30

Game is over, mafia win by technicality

▼Hidden text

Welcome to Mafia 31!

Rules:

1. Respect everyone, it's just a game, don't be a jerk.
2. Do not gamethrow. Play your role to win even if it seems dire, you never know what might happen.
3. Only discuss the game in this thread, or threads I assign to you.
4. Dead men tell no tales. Please use the graveyard thread if you have been eliminated.
5. Make all night actions via PM to me.
6. Don't use the mod text color please.
7. Try to post at least once every 24 hours.
8. Days will last 72 hours, nights will last 24 hours.
9. If you break the rules I will be rather ornery.
10. Have fun!

The setup:

▼Hidden text

You thought that nothing in your little village could go wrong. Sure, there were a few unsavoury people around, but what town doesn't? Things were going fine. Until one morning, you left your house, and were perplexed to discover that there was two of everything! Looking to the left of your house, you saw your house, or at least what looked like your house! As everyone emerged from their houses, it was surprising to find that there was also double the number of people! But you couldn't recognise anyone, not the seven from your town, not the seven from the ersatz town that arrived overnight, and certainly not the mysterious drifter that seemed to be from both universes and neither at the same time...

Lynching rules:
Each day the highest lynch target from each universe with the most votes are eliminated.
If there is a tie in one of the universes at the end of the day, the result will be a nolynch scenario for that universe.
All votes can be added/removed until the deadline.

▼Examples

Roles:
15 Players.
The players will be assigned the following roles:
Mafia Universe Cop Alpha
Mafia Backup Alpha
Town Universe Cop Alpha
Town Faction Cop Alpha
Town Mason Alpha
Town Vanilla Alpha
Town Vanilla Alpha
Mafia Universe Cop Omega
Mafia Backup Omega
Town Universe Cop Omega
Town Faction Cop Omega
Town Mason Omega
Town Vanilla Omega
Town Vanilla Omega
Drifter

Role descriptions:
Mafia Universe Cop Alpha/Omega:

You are the Mafia Universe Cop. You are in universe [?]. Your teammate is [?]. You may communicate at any time in this Private Chat: [?].
Every night, you may discover which universe a player is in.
Each night, as a team you may kill another player in the game, however, this will only succeed if that player is in your universe.
You will win when all of the members of the town in your universe are dead.

Mafia Backup Alpha/Omega:

You are the Mafia Backup. You are in universe [?]. Your teammate is [?]. You may communicate at any time in this Private Chat: [?].
In the case that your teammate dies, you will gain their ability.
Each night, as a team you may kill another player in the game, however, this will only succeed if that player is in your universe.
You will win when all of the members of the town in your universe are dead.

Town Universe Cop Alpha/Omega:

You are the Town Universe Cop. You are in universe [?].
Every night, you may discover which universe a player is in.
You will win when all of the members of the mafia in your universe are dead.

Town Faction Cop Alpha/Omega::

You are the Town Faction Cop. You are in universe [?].
Every night, you may discover which faction a player is in. [Town/Mafia]
You will win when all of the members of the mafia in your universe are dead.

Town Mason Alpha/Omega:

You are the Town Mason. You are in universe [?].
You have the ability to communicate through secret channels with the Town Mason in the other universe here: [?]
You will win when all of the members of the mafia in your universe are dead.

Town Vanilla Alpha/Omega:

You are a Town Vanilla. You are in universe [?].
While you don't have any special abilities, you have the power of your voice and your vote. And the second best flavour of icecream!
You will win when all of the members of the mafia in your universe are dead.

Town Vanilla Alpha/Omega:

You are a Town Vanilla. You are in universe [?].
While you don't have any special abilities, you have the power of your voice and your vote. And the second best flavour of icecream!
You will win when all of the members of the mafia in your universe are dead.

Drifter:

You are the Drifter. You do not belong to either universe, but float between them.
Every night you will choose a universe to belong to temporarily. For all purposes of votes, mafia kills, and cop checks, you will be affected by your choice. You're an affable person and will always appear to be "Town" when checked by a cop. You cannot be lynched Day 1.
You will win if you survive to the end of the game.

Game End:
When a universe concludes its game (either by all town or all mafia dying), those players will be removed, and the remaining players will continue until their game concludes.

Living Players:

NorwegianboyEE
TaskManager
Luka504
mrjawapa
ZeldaXD
Crybaby
peace
ShadowsEdge
eleizibeth

Graveyard:

Andymakeer (Town Vanilla Alpha) - Lynched Day 1 [Link]
Anatoly (Town Faction Cop Alpha) - Killed Night 1 [Link]
Kira (Town Vanilla Omega) - Lynched Day 2 [Link]
Kirby (Drifter) - Lynched Day 2 [Link]
mutantdevle (Town Mason Alpha) - Killed Night 2 [Link]
2B55B5G TNG (Town Universe Cop Omega) - Killed Night 2 [Link]

mutantdevle · 2019-09-21 13:41:51

Kira wrote:

1. Do not push for a tie at the last second
2. Do not role-claim unless you are cornered
3. Do not join bandwagons blindlessly without posting a strong argument against the lynched player

I'd like us to add "If you are the only person voting for someone, unvote by the end of the day". The only time breaking this rule isn't scummy is if there was more people on the wagon but they all unvoted and the day ended before you could also.

The mafia teams have no reason not to work together. They are not a threat to each other since they can't kill each other at night, but they can both reduce the general amount of townies for each other. Townies are a threat to each mafia regardless of if they are the same universe or not as they are only looking for scumminess without much consideration for universe. So as a result of this, it's important that both groups of townies work together to counter that. Even lynching a mafia of the opposite universe is a win for townies.

Since each mafia team only has 2 players, it's unlikely that they'd strongly bus each other. That said, mild bussing is still expected.

Kira, Luka504, TaskManager

mutantdevle · 2019-09-21 13:46:20

Luka's reasons for suspecting Shadow are awful, lack substance, and are nothing more than clutching at straws. I'm also fairly certain that Norwegian didn't even have a reason for his vote.

Shadow's overreaction to those comments is just weird. She's clearly a competent player, so it's very odd that she'd basically throw a hissy fit over mild comments against her. That leads me to believe that her reaction is fake and that she's just trying to display a personality that's as different as possible to what we saw last game.

mutantdevle · 2019-09-21 14:01:42

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

Mutantdevle wrote:
That leads me to believe that her reaction is fake and that she's just trying to display a personality that's as different as possible to what we saw last game.
Interesting theory, but what would Shadow gain from "faking" such an reaction? And do you think doing so makes Shadow more likely to be town or scum?

I mean, I thought that was kind of obvious.

If someone was behaving differently to what they usually do when they are town, that would lead you to think they are scum. Likewise, if someone was acting differently to how they usually do when they're scum then you'd think they are town. When you're scum, you want to play like you do when you're town. When you're town, you don't want to play like you do when you're scum. As a result, on paper, Shadow's behaviour very clearly indicates a scum --> town change between games. However, since the behaviour is so drastically different, that makes me think it's fake. Being fake is almost always a sign of being scum as town are only fake for gambits whilst scum have to be consistently fake.

mutantdevle · 2019-09-21 17:41:08

Luka504 wrote:

mutantdevle wrote:
Luka's reasons for suspecting Shadow are awful, lack substance, and are nothing more than clutching at straws. I'm also fairly certain that Norwegian didn't even have a reason for his vote.
Hey, those same stupid points got Shadow to talk, and at the end of the day, isn't that what mafia is truly about?

So are you claiming that your points were intentionally bad to provoke a reaction?

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

I understand what you're going for Mutant, but i still think that even if Shadow's reaction is slightly odd it's an honest one. Shadow barely got any pressure at all on his slot in the last game, so what we're seeing now could just be his way of tackling pressure.

Wait, what. I thought you were against Shadow? If you think his reaction was honest then why are you still voting for him?

mutantdevle · 2019-09-21 18:09:38

ShadowsEdge wrote:

So saying that I was "overreacting" isn't so much as a stretch, but it isn't also so much as close to the truth. Yes, I'll admit I went a little overboard with it, but I honestly dont know what you expected me to do in that situation. I've shown the way that Norwegian went about trying to put suspicion on me. The only way I could have POSSIBLY changed their mind is by roleclaiming. And even in that sense, it wouldn't be guaranteed they'd change their mind.

You went more than a 'little' overboard. The arguments against you were weak and you assumed points of criticism against you that were never stated. Based on your performance last game, I'd have expected you to have a more calculated response to the posts (eg, deconstructing them and pointing out how **** they are), not seemingly lose your mind over it. The problem I'm having is that if you were this sensitive to accusations then at the very least you would have posted paranoia in the PT we shared last game. But you didn't, you were calm at all times. So I'm struggling to see how your panic and appeal to emotion is natural in this game.

ShadowsEdge wrote:

Another note, I'm a guy, not a girl.

Oh right, it was your friend that was female right?

ShadowsEdge wrote:

I did go quickly into the "Yeah I'm gonna be lynched" quickly (First mentioned it in my 6th post), but thats because I felt that I couldn't change Norwegian's stance

And this isn't an overreaction, how? 1 person voting you isn't going to kill you.

ShadowsEdge wrote:

So in all reality, your opinion to wait for more input doesn't change anything about your stance, as you would know.

Actually, waiting would give Norwegian a consensus of whether other people want to lynch you too. As we've seen first-hand from previous games, how willing people are to lynch certain people can tell us something about their alignment. Besides, I'm 90% sure that his initial vote was just a placeholder, commonly referred to as RVS. If you didn't react the way you did then nothing would have come of Norwegian's vote.

ShadowsEdge wrote:

I told people I knew I was destined for the hammer

And you came to this conclusion from 1 vote...

ShadowsEdge wrote:

When I read them I thought they were real comments. I didn't throw a "hisssy fit over mild comments," I got defensive because I thought I was being suspected on the premise of being mafia last game. And in that circumstance, how was I supposed to defend myself? Their evidence has no grounds to hold in this game, yet they used it openly. Although that isn't exactly what Norwegian did do, it's what I thought he was doing, hence why I took the route of "I'm destined to be lynched." But contrary to how Taskmanager sets it up, and to how you've set it up, I'm not encouraging people to lynch me, and I'm not faking my reaction.

None of this is a counter to my perspective on you. Last game you displayed to me a very logical approach to the game, yet here you are acting out of emotion. Faking emotion is a logical tactic which is why I think you're capable of it. You came across as someone who'd know how to defend themself. You point out their fallacy and if they still vote for you, you then don't panic just because a single person won't listen to reason. Also, in what way have I 'set it up' that you encouraged people to lynch you? All I've accused you of is faking an overreaction.

ShadowsEdge wrote:

2B55 proposed the idea that:
2B55B5G TNG wrote:
But think of it in another way, if Shadow is mafia will he act like this?
I tried to bring it up again, and it was, again, disregarded.

As a mafia member faking a reaction your intent is exactly 'I want them to buy this reaction as real because I wouldn't react like this as mafia'. So the very notion that you are pushing the idea that you wouldn't have overreacted if you were mafia just gives me more reason to believe that you faked your reaction.

Norwee, 2b55b5g

mutantdevle · 2019-09-21 18:17:32

Anatoly wrote:

I'd like to mention, that Luka brought up an interesting point here: How many people to vote for?

Oh yeah, I was gonna reply to that comment by Luka but forgot about it so thanks for reminding me.

I think that any attempts to try and regulate how many 'popular' wagons we have at any one time would be futile. However, I do encourage that people unvote on unsuccessful wagons towards the end of each day. The ideal situation is to have either 1 or 2 players who we genuinely want to see flip with the most votes with every other player having 0 votes on them. 1 wagon is optimal when the top 2 suspicious people are of the same universe whilst 2 wagons are optimal when the top 2 suspicious people are of different universes. 3+ people being voted for or 2 strong wagons of the same universe are bad as they provide mafia with additional information during the lynch. Unfortunately, it's impossible to achieve an optimal situation in every lynch, but in order to get as close to that as possible we should at the very least direct suspicion to those who refuse to make sacrifices to achieve the optimal scenario.

mutantdevle · 2019-09-21 18:22:21

Anatoly wrote:

Ah yes - and Lukas point that we should vote only one player is a bit vague

I personally think that voting 1 player each day is the optimal scenario as that deprives the mafia of as much information as possible.

However, lynching 2 players at once is most optimal when we know the universe of at least 1 player being lynched. So that means any information learnt about people's universes from the lynch would also serve the help the town a little if that person is also a lynch target for the next day.

mutantdevle · 2019-09-21 18:27:04

ZeldaXD wrote:

I'm reading through the thread, Mutantdevle is looking town so far this game, he's actually trying to solve the game from the start this time. In the previous game (where he was mafia), he was quite "away", didn't look like he was really trying to solve the game (because he wasn't) until he got pressure and people started to suspect him as mafia. This time he is more like the Mutantdevle from PurgatorEE so I'm reading him as town for now.

You're 100% going to think I'm mafia later in this game.

mutantdevle · 2019-09-21 18:34:05

Anatoly wrote:

I see taskmanager figured out my message and knows what universe I'm in. I hope trusting him was not a mistake. I'm also sure taskmanager is in my universe.

There's only 1 reason someone who is town would say something like this: stupidity.

Let me just make this clear to everyone:

Do. Not. Give. Hints. About. Yours. Or. Anyone. Else's. Universe.

Whilst it can help the town a little, it helps the mafia a lot more. Finding out people's universes will be like breaking your arm and then getting to not do some work in school. Like sure it's cool you got to get out of doing some work, but you shouldn't be breaking your arm just to get out of doing some work.

mutantdevle · 2019-09-21 18:49:23

Shadow, you came to the conclusion that your lynch was inevitable after 1 vote, 1 **** reason for being suspicious of you, and no alternatives being suggested after only 2 hours of you being voted. I don't see how you can honestly describe that as anything other than an overreaction. The reasons were weak, you knew that. Why on earth would you think that literally everyone else would suddenly join a wagon against you based on blatantly weak reasonings? Why would you think that no one else could possibly be seen as suspicious with over 30 hours still left in the day? The only way you could be that sure that you were 100% gonna die is if you thought the rest of us were immensely thick and were just gonna sheep everything Luka and Norwegian said.

TaskManager, Minimania, 2b55b5g

mutantdevle · 2019-09-21 18:50:15

Anatoly wrote:

That being said my claim of the universe made me victim for night 1 :/

I mean, now that you say this, I doubt you revealing your universe is even a bad thing. I'm pretty sure there is 0 risk that the mafia are going to kill you.

mutantdevle · 2019-09-21 19:15:19

ShadowsEdge wrote:

mutantdevle wrote:
Shadow, you came to the conclusion that your lynch was inevitable after 1 vote, 1 **** reason for being suspicious of you, and no alternatives being suggested after only 2 hours of you being voted. I don't see how you can honestly describe that as anything other than an overreaction. The reasons were weak, you knew that. Why on earth would you think that literally everyone else would suddenly join a wagon against you based on blatantly weak reasonings? Why would you think that no one else could possibly be seen as suspicious with over 30 hours still left in the day? The only way you could be that sure that you were 100% gonna die is if you thought the rest of us were immensely thick and were just gonna sheep everything Luka and Norwegian said.
My whole point is that no one else was going to be lynched. Plurality lynch takes place, so yes, I jumped to the conclusion. One vote on me, and no votes on anyone else. Just one vote. That makes me be lynched because plurality lynch takes place. It didn't matter if people joined a bandwagon on me, because if I was the only one being voted at the end of the day, I would be lynched either way, because of plurality.
I stuck by the stance of "I'm gonna be lynched" because what else was I supposed to believe? It was obvious Norwegian would not change his mind. And at the time I didn't think anyone else would be a target for lynch, because I didn't think Policy lynches would still ensue.

It had been 2 hours. Of course there wasn't going to much discussion about other candidates in 2 hours especially when the people active in that time were the people you were arguing with.

mutantdevle · 2019-09-21 22:26:38

ShadowsEdge wrote:

Hindsight is 20/20. But at the time, as I've said before, I didn't think of any other way to go about it.

ShadowsEdge wrote:

I explained before that the reason I specifically reacted that way is because there was no viable way I could have defended myself.

You've made numerous other comments like this that imply you believe you couldn't have done anything differently. So have you changed your mind on that?

You honestly confuse me. In the previous game you were phenomenal, yet now you can't even stick to the same story. I have different reasons to suspect you than that of Luka and Norwegian and in trying to defend yourself against each of our's points you keep contradicting yourself.

mutantdevle · 2019-09-21 22:31:37

Kira wrote:

Friendly reminder that there are 15 players and not 1

Yeah, but we can't investigate all 15 players at once. So personally I've decided to just ignore 5 people for now and 15 take away 5 is 1.

Do you know what would be helpful though? If people like you would be kind enough to weigh in on the current situation. I'm not necessarily telling people they should be voting for Shadow, but it would be nice to know how others view this situation as right now the town as a whole is eerily silent with the exception of those involved in this drama.

mutantdevle · 2019-09-21 22:44:16

mrjawapa wrote:

What do you expect to see moving forward into D1, and N1, dev?

Thank you Mr J.

Well things are hotting up on day 1 as there have been some major accusations flying around.

If you think events have been stupid so far then just you wait because a little birdie has told me that there are some exciting twists and turns just around the corner. I've been told there's not going to be just 1 but 2 lynches today. Yes that's a whole 2 ladies and gentlemen! Now the more observant of you may have noticed that only 1 person is currently being accused of being scum - so the results of the lynch may just surprise you.

Heading into the evening and overnight there's going to be a lot of confusion primarily because of the sheer amount of power roles. The mafia teams have gained a tiny bit of juicy information prompting the question, do they make the safe obvious kill or try for something more risky? Well, we know how playing the safe game worked out for the mafia team last game... oh wait no we don't 'the mafia are making safe plays' was a lie created by the real mafia team. I wonder what lies the current mafias are concocting. I guess only time will tell.

rat, mrjawapa

mutantdevle · 2019-09-21 22:48:42

Shadow what are your reads?

mutantdevle · 2019-09-21 22:50:52

eleizibeth wrote:

i think we gotta keep in mind that shadow was mafia last game, so he was probably thinking about his posts a lot more

As mafia he'd need to think of a convincing lie to tell. As town, all he has to do is tell the truth. Yet somehow he's seemingly better at lying than telling the truth?? That just doesn't make sense to me.

rat

mutantdevle · 2019-09-21 23:01:28

ShadowsEdge wrote:

The Mafia can kill anyone and it provides them no harm. There is no Doctor, there is no Veteran, there is no Lookout, and there is no Tracker. They can realistically choose whoever they like, and the only drawback they will be faced with is the matter that if the person they attempt to kill is from a different universe, their kill will fail. But other than that, there's no drawback to choosing whoever they'd like to kill whenever they want. So there's not really a "safe kill" or a "risky kill" because the only sense of risk is the Universe aspect.

Their kill failing IS harm. Hence the safe kills are the ones that they can be more confident on succeeding. Anatoly revealing he's Omega coupled with the approximately 50% chance that we learn the universal alignment of someone by way of them not being lynched means the mafia goes into the night either both having a small bit of information or 1 having a tiny bit of information whilst the other has a medium. That's enough for 1 or both factions to have a safe option.

mutantdevle · 2019-09-21 23:03:35

ShadowsEdge wrote:

Norwegian chose me specifically while deterring from you, Taskmanager, Jawapa, Crybaby, etc.

Could it not be possible that he simply made a random choice from among the strongest players?

Also, your reads list is missing a lot of names.

mutantdevle · 2019-09-22 13:22:53

Okay it's time to stop with the wagon on Shadow. Overreacting to votes isn't even a credible scum tell and my points about Shadow faking the reaction are also obvious bs. My conclusions from this ordeal is that Luka is town, Shadow is town-ish, and Norwegian is inconclusive (null). Shadow being scum isn't something that I'm completely ruling out but I also don't think he's worth lynching today.

Someone who is worth lynching today though is Andy. Andy hasn't been useful and I highly doubt he ever will be. Due to how lacklustre he is I doubt we'll ever get him to a point where his alignment is obvious like we can with the likes of peace and Anatoly. Additionally, as Kira has pointed out, his second post shows he's at least reading the thread yet obviously not willing to make any meaningful conclusions. Besides, sheeping Kira is always a good idea. Finally, there is more information to be gained from lynching Andy than what's initially obvious so if you can't see that for yourself then you're just gonna have to trust me on it.

!vote Andymakeer

Kira

mutantdevle · 2019-09-22 18:06:42

Luka504 wrote:

Elaborate. What kind of information will we gain if Andy flips town and what will we gain if he flips mafia?

As a surface level, Andy flipping scum would be evidence that peace is town (or at the very least, not the same mafia team). The same can also be said about Kira given the random vote and now especially with Andy's recent post. On the other hand, Andy's town flip could be a crucial factor in any cases that later develops against Kira. And for myself also if you'd like.

I have other reasons to support an Andy lynch, though I'd like to keep that closer to my chest for now.

To clarify, saying that sheeping Kira is always a good idea was mostly a joke. Though I must say that in the past when I've been a little stuck in terms of solving the game I've found that strongly considering Kira's points of view has helped me to progress my thoughts even if I came to not agree with his own conclusions. That's the reason why I've decided to follow Kira on Andy rather than suggest my own candidate for the lynch. And trust me, I do have someone in mind that I would have been voting for right now had it not been for Kira's vote.

If you won't trust me on the matter of voting Andy then I'd ask that at the very least you unvote from Shadow. I echo this sentiment towards Norwegianboy.

mutantdevle · 2019-09-22 18:09:20

Andymakeer wrote:

stating someone is mafia on the first round is a pretty bad move, as there are tons of possibilities for the kill to fail (drifter, different universe, tie)
kira is being convenently agressive because there is no vote placed on him, he knows that he is on a safe spot
my opinion on kira strategy:
- he is mafia
- trying to state he is not mafia
- claiming im mafia to make people vote on me
- he doesnt think im mafia, he probably is focusing on me trying to flip me a faction cop (best role imo)
if im right, he will focus on me even more
keep your eyes open guys

This post is yet another from Andy that shows he has a competent understanding of the game yet remains clueless in actually providing information and being any useful contribution.

mutantdevle · 2019-09-22 18:18:14

Crybaby wrote:

I read through the posts since I was gone, and, I'll just be Frank. I'm trying really hard to give you the benefit of the doubt, Anatoly. You ask people to give you a chance, to believe that you are a townie, but your actions are really treading the lines of my trust. It started off with fishing for Task's universe (not a townie thing to do), insisting that he has to be scum and that the detective roles should devote their resources into frisking him as the dnight comes (another really scummy thing to do), and the straw that broke the camel's back is what I quoted at the start of this post. It's better for the drifter to reveal themselves never. It is never a good idea to reveal your universe. It is never a good idea to try to expose someone else's universe. By doing that, you're very likely putting a) someone else in danger, and b) yourself in danger, as well as c) a lot of scrutiny on yourself. You've suggested before that the town might bus you, and you are drawing a lot of unnecessary attention to yourself by making all of these scum-sounding statements and just, in general, making yourself a target for other people, even without realizing it. If you aren't Mafia, then you're giving them someone they can easily keep alive and use as their puppet, in a way. Realize that your words have consequences, and if you really are a town member, reconsider your strategy, because we shouldn't be giving the Mafia any advantages, even by policy lynching you and peace.

The flaw with your points about Anatoly is that you assume that as mafia he'd play like any other player with the exception that he isn't good at it. In reality, the only thing he'd care about as mafia is not looking like mafia. So when you see him doing things like trying to find out people's roles, something your typical mafia would want to do but far more subtly, that's actually evidence that he is town. As mafia, he wouldn't care to try and find out other people's roles as he'd be too paranoid about being caught. On the other hand, role-fishing is a very common trait amongst new players - I was almost lynched on day 1 on my second MafiaScum game for it - and we all know Anatoly's understanding and approach to the game is basically that of someone who is new.

mutantdevle · 2019-09-22 18:23:27

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

I don't understand why Mutant and Kira think we'll change our votes or unvote when the whole justification is "Why don't you guys just trust us now for seemingly no reason?"

Had you read my response to Luka when you wrote this post? Because if so then this statement is just insulting.

Besides, I thought you were town reading me? If that is true, then why am I not worthy of your trust?

Official Everybody Edits Forums

#1 2019-09-21 03:20:30, last edited by Onjit (2019-09-28 14:03:24)