Mafia 29: The French Revolution MAFIA + JESTER WIN!

Kira · 2019-08-18 22:16:22

MAFIA 29: The French Revolution

Moderator: Kira

Playerlist: (TBD)

-Peace (Replacing JoeyC)
-TaskManager
-2B55B5G TNG (Replacing Luka504)
-NorwegianboyEE - Doctor
-mutantdevle
-ShadowsEdge
-Zumza - Villager
-MrJawapa - Jester - Winner
-ZeldaXD
-Eleizibeth - Vanilla Townie
-Slabdrill
-Bimps (Replacing HeebusBajesus)
-Crybaby - Veteran

RULES:

Be nice. It's a game.

General:
- Please adhere to the forum rules.
- Do not discuss this game of mafia outside of this thread.
- Day phases will last 72 hours (or until a lynch is achieved).
- Night Phases will last 24 hours.
- During night phase, no talking may be done in the thread.
- Do not quote PM's from the mod at all. Paraphrasing is acceptable.
- If you have any questions about your role, or the game, feel free to PM me.
- You are expected to put a minimum of effort in your posts.
- If you break any of these rules, you may be modkilled or force-replaced.

Voting / Player actions:
- Make your vote clear and visible.
- Don't try to confuse me with your votes.
- A lynch will occur once a majority decision is reached. If no majority is reached by deadline, then the day will go overtime.
- Following a lynch, it is twilight. You may continue to post until I lock the thread and declare it night.
- If nobody dies for 3 consecutive night phases, the town will win.
- If you have a Night Action, you may PM your night action every night.

Activity:
- You are expected to post at least once every 48 hours. If you haven't posted for 48 hours, I shall prod you. If you do not respond to the prod within 24 hours (either in thread if it's Day, or via PM during the Night) then I will replace you.
- As well, if you require more than three prods, I will force-replace you.

Mechanics:
- #2EFFBD is my color. Feel free to use it if you'd like! Just not to impersonate me or to mislead others.
- I may make mistakes - please point out any mistakes gently. Mistakes will be corrected where possible, but sometimes mistakes are made that cannot be reversed. These will stand as final to be commiserated over after the game.
- If you need to get the mod's attention, either PM me, or bold the text you wish to draw to my attention.
- I reserve the right to alter/remove/add any rules as I see fit. You will, of course, be notified if that happens, however.

ROLELIST:

Vanilla Town:
-Le Vétéran (Veteran): You are the Veteran, a crazy lunatic that will kill anyone that decides to visit you at night. You can only use your ability 2 times, send me a private message at night time when you decide to use your ability.
-Le Guet (Look-out): You are the Look-out, your ability is to observe a player and see who visited them during a particular night. You can use your role as many times as you want, but you cannot visit the same person twice.
-Le Médecin (Doctor): You are the Doctor, your ability is to protect anyone from dying in a particular night. You are allowed to heal yourself once but you cannot heal the same person twice.
-6 Villageois (Villagers)

Mafia Goon:
-Le Déguiseur (Disguiser): You are the Disguiser. You may disguise as a living target, which makes you appear as that person’s role, should you die that night or the following day.
-Le Concierge (Janitor): You are the Janitor. your ability is to completely erase one’s identity, as such, the murdered’s role and note will not be revealed. You can use your ability 2 times.
-Godfather

Neutral Evil:
-Le Boufon (Jester): You are the Jester! You are obsessed with the guillotine and hope to get lynched at all cost. Upon lynch, you will get the chance to kill anyone that voted for your death.

SETUP:

-3 Mafias
-9 Townies
-1 Neutral

-Win condition for Mafia is to have at least 1 Mafia alive at the end of the game. If 1 town and 1 mafia are alive, then Mafia will automatically win the game.
-Win condition for Town is to have killed all mafia members and the neutral.
-Win condition for Neutral is to get lynched.
-Mafia will have private room they can use at all time, there won't be any Martyr PT.
-The game will be based on a day and night cycle, the timezone used will be GMT +1, Paris. https://time.is/fr/Paris

HAVE FUN!

Joeyjoey65, ShadowsEdge, NoNK, TaskManager, 2b55b5g, Onjit, Minimania

mutantdevle · 2019-08-19 14:16:31

I've always found Slab to be a useful lurker to be honest. He's definitely a decent candidate for the day 1 lynch but I don't see why we need to be so narrow-minded about it.

mutantdevle · 2019-08-19 14:20:03

So you and Heebus know each other quite well then?

You seem fairly competent so I'd assume your friend is too. Based on your comments in previous threads, I take it you have more experience with mafia than just reading PurgatorEE?

mutantdevle · 2019-08-19 14:24:07

So am I also correct in assuming that you two would be quite good at reading each other?

mutantdevle · 2019-08-19 14:29:57

After jawapa's play in PurgatorEE I expect him not to be a lurker.

mutantdevle · 2019-08-19 15:22:49

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

This setup seems to heavily favor the mafia side. We'll need some good strategies to win this.

I think the main problem we have is with the disguiser. The janitor isn't anything special; it just has a chance to deprive us of some information. But that lack of information could make the mafia over-confident and hence potentially expose themself. But that disguiser, unless we lynch them today, no flip can be trusted (no town flip can anyway). I just want to make that clear to everyone because it changes quite a large dynamic of the game.

Luka504 wrote:

How active is Zelda again?

Zelda is decently active, but his posts don't contain much of substance to be honest.

Luka504 wrote:

If there's 13 people alive, you need 7 for a majority. If there's 12 alive, you still need 7 for a majority, which makes it harder to reach a consensus.

Since each day is guaranteed to have a lynch, it doesn't really matter in this game if we have an even amount of players. But yeah, day 1 lynches are still preferable regardless of that.

mutantdevle · 2019-08-19 19:44:09

ShadowsEdge wrote:

What I'm really hoping for is for more conversation on who to lynch to go on.

What do you think we're doing by discussing Slabdrill? We're generating conversation.

eleizibeth wrote:

we're better off waiting

For what?

2B55B5G TNG wrote:

but I prefer to wait everyone to talk first

Voting for people and strongly suggesting options gets people talking. If it weren't for that, we'd have nothing to talk about.

This kind of thought process is actually quite negative for discussion. It serves to shut down discussion; the very thing you claim to be waiting for. It's annoying that this kind of talk happens at the start of almost every game as I honestly thought we'd be over this by now.

To be honest, I don't think Luka deserves the criticism of "he's focussing on Slabdrill and not the other inactives" due to Slabdrill being more unique than the other inactives. The other players that seem to be being grouped as 'inactive' are either new, just yet to post, or are obviously more active than Slabdrill anyway. On the other hand, even when Slabdrill does post once in a 24 hour period, what he has to say is borderline useless hence making him almost impossible to read. The only reason he was readable in the previous game was because of how few players there were towards the end. The only thing that is odd about his stance on Slabdrill is that he never voted. But honestly, as someone who doesn't always vote where my mouth is, I can understand why. Suggesting someone is different from committing to them.

Primarily because of all this talk of 'other options' without anyone else truly being seriously suggested, I'm going to vote Slabdrill. Because let's be honest, Slabdrill is almost objectively the optimal lynch on day 1.

!vote Slabdrill

TaskManager

mutantdevle · 2019-08-19 20:30:11

ShadowsEdge wrote:

yet the only one Norwegian mentioned as being suspicious was Luka.

I'm pretty sure Norwegian's criticisms were of how strongly Luka was pushing. The same can't be said for the others who simply agreed with Luka's position.

Norwee, rat

mutantdevle · 2019-08-20 14:21:12

Crybaby wrote:

He claimed that lynching Slabdrill on day 1 would be viable, but narrow minded, and I dont exactly agree with this. Slabdrill is a "useful lurker", according to him. In the last game, he was useful to you because he blindly followed your plan, and you never even suspected him as a possibility,

To clarify, I do think that only looking at Slabdrill in the beginning was a bit narrow-minded. However, now that other options have been looked at; or rather, no one seems to have any solid reasons to go for other options; I'm now fully supportive of lynching Slabdrill at this stage.

Also, I no longer agree with my statement that Slabdrill is a useful lurker. As you pointed out, he was useful to me last game by basically being a yes man. But then I thought about the rest of the games he's played in where he's basically been useless - hence my most recent comments. Also, I did suspect Slabdrill last game since he was on the lynch side of the plan. This was only later changed (as stated in heaven) by 2B55 being scummier than him towards the end of the game.

mutantdevle · 2019-08-20 14:24:01

Crybaby wrote:

I think this is because I'm just typing what ever comes to mind. I'll try not to do that anymore, so my posts have more structure.

No, continue posting whatever comes to your mind. Whilst it may slightly impact the quality of your posts, posting what comes to mind makes you easier to read.

mutantdevle · 2019-08-20 14:28:32

Norwegianboy, do you town read Slabdrill?

mutantdevle · 2019-08-20 14:30:35

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

mutantdevle wrote:
Norwegianboy, do you town read Slabdrill?
Town read is a strong way to put it.

Well then how would you put it?

mutantdevle · 2019-08-20 14:39:52

@jawapa, why jeebus? I personally find it hard to town read someone who I've been told is supposed to be at least decent at the game but whose first post of substance is an excuse not to say much.

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

But i don't think he is mafia, because i feel like there would be a lot more people defending him if that was the case.

In contrast, Luka has been defended. So would the opposite not be true for him? I would have thought that would mean you'd keep your vote on 2B55. Is there any reason other than suspecting him as jester that you unvoted?

mutantdevle · 2019-08-20 19:24:29

To be honest, I don't think we need to care about the jester really. If the jester winning ended the game I'd be more concerned about it but at most the penalty for lynching the jester is a dead townie - but the jester could also kill a mafia. So overall, I don't think there's a net negative to lynching the jester and we shouldn't let fears of someone being a jester from pursuing our scum reads.

Norwee, Slabdrill, rat, TaskManager, Minimania, ZeldaXD

mutantdevle · 2019-08-20 19:37:54

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

@Mutantdevle
Who do you see as suspicious? Do you mind sharing your reads?

There's yet to be anybody that I consider suspicious enough to be worth voting for. However, you are currently top of my suspect list. I also find Heebus to be quite scummy since she's not met the expectations I've been given of her.

2B55 is tickling me the wrong way but I liked Luka's contributions so I have mixed feelings about that slot. I get a similar tickling from Crybaby.

Jawapa, Shadow and TaskManager are my main town reads. I'm also liking ele since they're actually giving great contributions which I was not expecting.

Everyone else's contributions have all been too insignificant. Well, except Zumza whose posts just irrationally irritate me for some reason.

mrjawapa

mutantdevle · 2019-08-20 19:39:29

ShadowsEdge wrote:

Heebus a girl, not a dude. xD

Kira wrote:

If Neutral's win condition isn't met, then he will not win the game.

Oof.

Slabdrill

mutantdevle · 2019-08-21 12:45:22

2B55B5G TNG wrote:

Useful but a decent candidate for day 1 lynch? Why lynch a useful person? I understand you might want to get rid of lurkers but if he's useful, I don't think we should lynch him.

My comment was never that he was a useful person, just a useful lurker. The point I was trying to make at the time was that other lurkers would be better suited. However, not only does no other player lurk to the extent that Slabdrill does, but I've also revoked my statement that Sladrill is even useful.

2B55B5G TNG wrote:

who do you think has the possibility of being a disguiser?

Lol, how would you expect me to answer this? I've not even done the first step of identifying anyone I think has a strong chance of being mafia.

2B55B5G TNG wrote:

Luka was seriously suggested by Norwegianboy tho.

Yeah but I disagree with it so it's not something that factored into me not voting Slabdrill.

2B55B5G TNG wrote:

You said almost objectively the optimal lynch, who is the best option?
Also I don't really agree on Slabdrill being the most optimal lynch on day 1, he still haven't talked yet when you said that, you should at least give him some chance to let Slab explain himself, instead of rushing it.

Objectively means it cannot be argued. Of course, it can be argued - but I don't think there are many strong points against it that produce a better candidate. Hence why I described him being optimal as almost objective. I wasn't saying there is a better option.

What does Slabdrill explaining himself do? "Oh you're lynching me because I'm a lurker? Well, I'm a lurker so....". There is very little Slabdrill can do to fight this lynch because the lynch isn't about him being conventionally scummy. And just because I've expressed support for his lynch doesn't mean the day is magically going to end and it's not like I can't change my vote once I've placed. Also, you haven't explained why Slabdrill isn't the optimal lynch. You've just pointed out a flaw in it. Unless you provide a different and better candidate than Slabdrill he will remain the optimal choice.

2B55B5G TNG wrote:

I think you should've realized that earlier instead when you fully support to lynch Slab?

Why? Why would I have realised it earlier?

2B55B5G TNG wrote:

I quite don't understand why people really want to get rid of inactive players.

You need to get rid of them out of policy - aka set the standard that it's not okay to be inactive. If multiple players are inactive it allows the mafia to disguise themself as inactive and just get a free pass in the game. Lynching inactive players in later days is bad because you'd usually have information to go after better targets. So day 1 when you don't have any information to go on is the best time for policy votes. Also, being inactive makes people harder to read. If they're not posting much then you can't judge what they post.

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

I disagree about your assessment that there is not enough information to find suspects however, it seems a bit narrow minded to just assume that there is absolutely no other choice than voting Slabdrill. I thought you were open to the idea of thinking outside the box, but i guess not.

I never said that there is no choice other than Slabdrill, I just think he is currently optimal. Technically, we don't have to go for what's optimal and instead we could take a risk on someone else. But I don't see anyone to take a risk on. Y'all keep questioning why everyone is so focussed on Slabdrill - the answer is that there are no other convincing options. If you want me voting someone other than Slabdrill then you either need to convince that someone else is a better lynch than him or that it's worth it taking the risk to lynch someone other than him.

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

So since it's obvious the mafia has agreed on either passively or actively supporting a Slabdrill lynch. Will you trust me more once he is revealed to be a townie i wonder? I am absolutely certain by now that Slabdrill must be innocent.

No, Slabdrill flipping town wouldn't make me trust you. There's a 2/3 chance that he flips town and as mafia you'd know what he'd flip. The arguments you've made about Slabdrill and the progression of thought you've shown in the thread are not beyond fakery. To be honest, I would have thought town!you would want Slabdrill lynched if you genuinely believed what you're claiming you do. Slabdrill flipping town would turn your speculation into confirmed evidence which is probably the most useful thing he could do in a game. But instead, I get the impression that you want to stay off the wagon because the town credit you'd get from 'being right all along' is more valuable to you than making your arguments convincing.

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

Do you think Luka504's actions were appropriate considering his given role card?

Why is specifically his role card relevant? Are you trying to prompt an answer that will give you information about whether Luka was acting off being PR/vanilla?

Zumza

mutantdevle · 2019-08-21 13:06:05

Crybaby wrote:

For anybody who wishes to suspect me based off of this change, or based off of the fact that I'm pointing it out, then okay. That's valid,

I personally don't think it'd be a valid point of criticism. Last game you were mafia and used it as an excuse, so if you're no longer using it as an excuse, that would suggest a greater level of honesty. So if people were accusing you of being mafia for that then they'd need a jolly good vote-slap.

HeebusBajesus wrote:

Because of this, I asked beep for the link again and it took me to what I now realize was page 2.
For a while it was fine, until 2B and Beep would, again, mention new information that I wasn't seeing

Where did you see them mentioning this if you couldn't see the new page?

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

"Meh, let’s just lynch the afk without bothering to gather more vital data"

I don't understand why y'all think that supporting 1 lynch means no more data can be gathered and no more options can be discussed. That's not how it works at all. I've always been in support of lynching someone on day 1 and day 1 lynches are almost always policy. Why do you think in placing 1 vote or committing to your opinion is people somehow trying to cut off the discussion?

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

Isolate his posts and look at the "early mafia prediction" statements. Even though his arguments seem like they lack a big amount logic, people like Mutant and Taskmanager still back it up.

Ahh yes, I remember quite clearly backing him up when he randomly accused me of being mafia.

mutantdevle · 2019-08-21 13:26:01

Okay, so I definitely don't want to lynch Slabdrill anymore. I was planning to change my vote anyway but having it directly stated that this lynch is important due to being the only flip we can trust 100% made me change my whole opinion that day 1 should be for policy. It's kinda ironic that I hadn't fully realised that despite kind of pointing out earlier as earlier I was only really thinking about the negative aspect of later lynches.

So anyway, I'm going to vote norwegianboy now (what a surprise!).

I actually think Slabdrill is town - regardless of what norwegianboy flips. Norwegianboy is either a townie who genuinely believes what he's saying or scum who expects/expected Slabdrill to flip today and wanted to be on the good side of the wagon to get those good boi points. I think that's clear from how norwegian's entire attitude towards Slabdrill assumes he is town form the very start and he's even directly asked people whether we'd trust him if he flips town as though he's expecting us to. I also think that Norwegian's question towards 2B55 was hella sketchy. He was trying to prompt him to give information about his role. Coming off of the fact that Norwegian tried to vote Luka, I also think that Luka/2B55 are town.

So I'm somewhat confident that norwegianboy is town, lynching him could solve the alignment of 2 other players, and even if I'm wrong norwegianboy being the only person confirmed as town is still valuable. I don't really see a reason not to vote.

!vote Norwegianboy

mutantdevle · 2019-08-21 13:29:06

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

I wanted to see what my question would yield from 2B55B5G TNG. Asking difficult questions might make people slip up and accidentally reveal whatever alignment they have. That said, how do you know that Luka was as you put it: "acting off being PR/vanilla"? Your comment here is worded in a way that shows you might already have knowledge about his alignment.

Lol, don't try and turn this on me. You're the one that asked the question that focussed more on role than it did alignment. I simply pointed out your motives.

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

If i knew he would flip town, why would i be so audacious about it?

You've quite clearly tried to show progression of thought to try and justify why you so strongly believed Slabdrill to be town. I think I threw you off a bit when I pointed out that you were treating him as a town read before you were ready to admit that you were.

mutantdevle · 2019-08-21 13:45:58

2B55B5G TNG wrote:

we can't really trust other days' lynch results because of the Disguiser, so I think day 1 is best to lynch someone else instead of inactive players, because we have some information now. I think the best time to lynch inactive players is when we have completely no info to lead us.

Yeah, I agree. I was overlooking the fact that today's lynch is special. Usually, day 1 is the best time for policy lynches.

2B55B5G TNG wrote:

The timing you no longer think Slabdrill is a useful lurker is weird, it looks like you planned to change your thought when you said that you fully support a Slabdrill lynch, so I thought you should've realized it earlier.

No, my thoughts about Slabdrill changed after reading what everyone else thought about him - specifically someone pointed out that the only reason I saw him as useful is because he followed everything I said last game. From there, seeing how, despite there being lots of talk about Slabdrill not being the only lurker, no other lurker was being considered so I decided to join the wagon.

2b55b5g

mutantdevle · 2019-08-21 13:48:57

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

@Mutantdevle So you think i'm town but want to lynch me at the same time? Alright then, but i highly doubt lynching me would be as beneficial to the town as you claim it will.

No... I think you're mafia.

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

Yeah i did, so what? If i already knew his alignment because i'm mafia i wouldn't even have bothered asking. I'd probably just shut up and rely on night-kills.

Why would his role matter to you if you're trying to solve his alignment? You absolutely would ask him that as mafia because you'd want to know whether he is a PR or vanilla to better inform your night kill.

Zumza

mutantdevle · 2019-08-21 13:53:39

mutantdevle wrote:

So I'm somewhat confident that norwegianboy is town,

I'm somewhat confident that norwegianboy is mafia*

mutantdevle wrote:

NorwegianboyEE wrote:
@Mutantdevle So you think i'm town but want to lynch me at the same time? Alright then, but i highly doubt lynching me would be as beneficial to the town as you claim it will.
No... I think you're mafia.

I can see why you were confused lol.

mutantdevle · 2019-08-21 13:55:31

mrjawapa wrote:

This will tell us if slab is a bad man or not.

I assume you don't agree with my assessment as to why norwegianboy is defending Slabdrill?

mutantdevle · 2019-08-21 15:24:51

ShadowsEdge wrote:

I don't think this is really a good lynch to do, Norwegian has been useful in games past, and would be useful in this game as well, but lynching him from the start will get rid of his ability to do that. If you guys don't want to switch your opinions of him, that's fine. But, honestly, I think this lynch is pretty weird, because the basis for it is to "Confirm someone as Town."

Just because he's useful doesn't mean he's not scum.

This lynch isn't to confirm him as town - I believe he is the scummiest person here. I'm pretty sure jawapa at least has that opinion as well.

mrjawapa

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#1 2019-08-18 22:16:22, last edited by Kira (2019-08-31 19:31:22)