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#1 2019-07-23 11:42:10, last edited by LIATRI42 (2019-07-25 19:07:52)

LIATRI42
Member
From: Moscow
Joined: 2019-07-20
Posts: 40

Thank you for safe, EE Staff!

People are keep joining my accounts, yesterday a guy from USA joined my google account. Hopefully I noticed it immediately. Probably the same guy also joined my minecraft account and changed the nickname.

Already changed password everywhere. Dear Xenonetix and staff, you are not able to protect you own game, maybe because you do not have enough experience. Playing your game is dangerous. Sadly Chris Lamb disagreed to give the game back to Benjaminsen.

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#2 2019-07-23 12:22:11

RailMat
Formerly MatthijsFidder
From: Emmen (NL)
Joined: 2017-05-22
Posts: 1,534

Re: Thank you for safe, EE Staff!

Plesnuik wrote:

People are keep joining my accounts, yesterday a guy from USA joined my Google account (I have his IP and will find him from the first sheet with leaked info). Hopefully I noticed it immediately. Some retard also joined my Minecraft account and changed the nickname.

I learn from my faults and already changed password everywhere. Dear xenonetix, staff, you are not able to protect you own game, maybe because you do not have enough experience. Playing your game is DANGEROUS. Sadly Chris Lamb disagreed to give the game back to Benjaminsen.

Change all passwords for everything that have the same one as your ee account. Another tip: use 2 step log in

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#3 2019-07-23 22:44:26

Pqwerty
Member
From: 'Murica
Joined: 2015-10-09
Posts: 113

Re: Thank you for safe, EE Staff!

First, I understand your pain and a lot of people's pain for having their information leaked. In fact, I was one of them. I know we give the staff a bunch of crap about the job they're doing, but we need to remember that they are volunteers, not experts. They don't have enough time or money to work on EE full-time (only $341 a month from Patreon), and they certainly don't have money to afford a security audit.

Like, put yourself in Xeno's shoes. His background is in music, and he was a forum admin for Square Enix once. He gets thrusted into the owner position at EE after NVD suddenly quit. No one told him how to run a game and no one told him how to secure a server.

So how can we complain when a breach happens if there's nothing he could've done to stop a breach? He's not a security expert, nor could he afford to hire one. And how can we complain to him about the progress of EEU when he can't affect how quickly it's built (he doesn't know how to code so it's not like he can magically create EEU)?

I really think we should try to sympathize with Xeno and lay off him a bit. He almost killed himself from the stress and backlash caused during the last breach. I know some of you don't like him or the staff, but please realize that he's been forced between a rock and a hard place and doesn't have the resources to get out.


I come in peace. You just can't see it through the screen.

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#4 2019-07-23 22:57:56

icepegasus
Member
Joined: 2015-08-21
Posts: 63

Re: Thank you for safe, EE Staff!

Pqwerty wrote:

And how can we complain to him about the progress of EEU when he can't affect how quickly it's built (he doesn't know how to code so it's not like he can magically create EEU)?

You misunderstood. It's obvious that making the game from scratch on a new engine takes time especially without well paid developers. The reason people complain about this is because they announced closed beta will be ready by the beginning of 2019.
We are now at the middle of 2019 and I can't see any progress.


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#5 2019-07-23 23:00:28

Jorc
Member
From: Petoria
Joined: 2016-03-20
Posts: 1,322

Re: Thank you for safe, EE Staff!

Pqwerty wrote:

First, I understand your pain and a lot of people's pain for having their information leaked. In fact, I was one of them. I know we give the staff a bunch of crap about the job they're doing, but we need to remember that they are volunteers, not experts. They don't have enough time or money to work on EE full-time (only $341 a month from Patreon), and they certainly don't have money to afford a security audit.

Like, put yourself in Xeno's shoes. His background is in music, and he was a forum admin for Square Enix once. He gets thrusted into the owner position at EE after NVD suddenly quit. No one told him how to run a game and no one told him how to secure a server.

So how can we complain when a breach happens if there's nothing he could've done to stop a breach? He's not a security expert, nor could he afford to hire one. And how can we complain to him about the progress of EEU when he can't affect how quickly it's built (he doesn't know how to code so it's not like he can magically create EEU)?

I really think we should try to sympathize with Xeno and lay off him a bit. He almost killed himself from the stress and backlash caused during the last breach. I know some of you don't like him or the staff, but please realize that he's been forced between a rock and a hard place and doesn't have the resources to get out.

Damn I didn't know that Xenonetix almost killed himself. I feel sad for him.

Can we blame on hackers instead? Mainly breach happened is hackers, of course security isn't strong, but we shouldn't go too hard on Xenonetix and other EE staffs this time, they will get stress and it's not their fault. They tried their best for EEU progress, maybe EEU security will be stronger than EE's one?
Hackers deserve to live in poverty, no friends for what they did to EE and something else. Harming the game isn't really fun if you think about it.

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#6 2019-07-23 23:05:09

icepegasus
Member
Joined: 2015-08-21
Posts: 63

Re: Thank you for safe, EE Staff!

EEJoranasc wrote:

Mainly breach happened is hackers, of course security isn't strong, but we shouldn't go too hard on Xenonetix and other EE staffs this time, they will get stress and it's not their fault

Staff and mainly the owner need to know how to deal with stress otherwise count them as not suited. Even if they are just volunteers


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#7 2019-07-24 00:05:22

XxAtillaxX
Member
From: Canada
Joined: 2015-11-28
Posts: 3,968

Re: Thank you for safe, EE Staff!

Yeah, let's refrain from criticism and instead sympathise with someone who supposedly nearly killed themselves over a smiley face game, which would in fact result in Everybody Edits dying instantly and permanently, as he's the owner of the intellectual property.
If you don't want that to happen, and most of you don't, one would think that you wouldn't romanticise that sort of decision. I was under the impression that Xenonetix considers himself a logician, although that sort of contemplation I think warrants some doubt over that claim. I would think that to be a highly irrational, emotionally fueled and childish thing to do due to a smiley face game.


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#8 2019-07-24 00:15:17

Jorc
Member
From: Petoria
Joined: 2016-03-20
Posts: 1,322

Re: Thank you for safe, EE Staff!

icepegasus wrote:
EEJoranasc wrote:

Mainly breach happened is hackers, of course security isn't strong, but we shouldn't go too hard on Xenonetix and other EE staffs this time, they will get stress and it's not their fault

Staff and mainly the owner need to know how to deal with stress otherwise count them as not suited. Even if they are just volunteers

Mainly it's community's fault for creating the stress for Xenonetix for stupid ****, harassing goes for few days that made Xenonetix depressed, that really goes too far from what I remember. No normal human can handle that, Xenonetix can handle criticism, as long as it's not pointing that staff team is bad or something. Breach isn't really staff team's fault, security happened to be weak since its birth.

Imagine game got ruined all because of its community, that would be very fricked up.

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#9 2019-07-24 00:24:19

XxAtillaxX
Member
From: Canada
Joined: 2015-11-28
Posts: 3,968

Re: Thank you for safe, EE Staff!

EEJoranasc wrote:

Breach isn't really staff team's fault, security happened to be weak since its birth.

Uh, not in the same ways that it is now. In the past, you didn't have tons of people's account details being leaked nor a million emails at that.

I don't blame Xenonetix for being upset, but he doesn't need to take it out on people in the community, he doesn't need to flame in the Discord or forums, nor does he have to contemplate suicide. It is not a normal behaviour to contemplate suicide, especially not over a smiley face game.


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#10 2019-07-24 00:40:19, last edited by Luka504 (2019-07-24 00:46:04)

Luka504
Member
From: Serbia,probs never heard of it
Joined: 2015-02-19
Posts: 2,456

Re: Thank you for safe, EE Staff!

I think both sides are pretty **** here.

Atilla, telling someone that it isn't normal to be suicidal won't suddenly cure them. Depression is way more complicated than that. It's easy to view his reasons for depression as "lol he wants to die because of smiley face game what a dum dum" but you know yourself that this game means a lot to Xenonetix.

Harassment, bullying and stress on the level that Xeno has been exposed to is really severe, so severe that it's easy for us to forget that xeno is a human too and how, despite his mistakes, he does want the absolute best for the game.

However, I also agree that that doesn't exonerate Xeno of the big goofs he's made in the past few years. It's no secret that Xeno has a short fuse and that he lashes out on the people who he depends on to support his game.

Mental unwellness doesn't excuse bad behavior, it can only help explain it.


How long will it take me to get banned again?
Place your bets right here.

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#11 2019-07-24 02:04:08

Kira
Member
Joined: 2019-04-22
Posts: 388

Re: Thank you for safe, EE Staff!

Luka504 wrote:

I think both sides are pretty **** here.

Atilla, telling someone that it isn't normal to be suicidal won't suddenly cure them. Depression is way more complicated than that. It's easy to view his reasons for depression as "lol he wants to die because of smiley face game what a dum dum" but you know yourself that this game means a lot to Xenonetix.

Harassment, bullying and stress on the level that Xeno has been exposed to is really severe, so severe that it's easy for us to forget that xeno is a human too and how, despite his mistakes, he does want the absolute best for the game.

However, I also agree that that doesn't exonerate Xeno of the big goofs he's made in the past few years. It's no secret that Xeno has a short fuse and that he lashes out on the people who he depends on to support his game.

Mental unwellness doesn't excuse bad behavior, it can only help explain it.



While it's not okay to tell someone to be suicidal over a smiley game, It's also not okay to make the community play a game with security flaws.

You have to balance the consequences on both sides.

Like I said in a previous topic about this matter, what would have happened if I didn't check the forums or was unaware of the events? Anyone could've entered my paypal with those information. On one hand, It's my fault for being careless and having same passwords, on the other hand It's absolutely unforgivable to make your community play a game with massive security flaws.

Emails, Password, Ips. Seriously what's next? CC card info?

Are you **** kidding me? Does anyone really want to lose money over a flash game and an irresponsible owner?

You saying:  "xeno is a human too and how, despite his mistakes, he does want the absolute best for the game." Okay cool. Then act. The team has received thousands of patreon money and the community expects them to put it to good use. I'd rather play a game knowing I'm safe without having my information leaked than have a closed beta just to satisfy the whines.

If you're stressed to the point of feeling suicidal, then quit and move on. It's that easy.

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#12 2019-07-24 02:23:17, last edited by Joeyjoey65 (2019-07-24 02:24:06)

Joeyjoey65
Member
Joined: 2017-11-05
Posts: 110

Re: Thank you for safe, EE Staff!

Imagine not playing this game for many years only to see your stuff hacked many years later by hackers on this dead game. NOW That's ****. Many can agree it doesn't feel like anybody takes this seriously. You cannot return money stolen and Staff cannot help you at all to retrieve anything.

I've already been hacked on a few inactive sites but still it's just so annoying. Why doesn't it feel like anybody cares. It feels like were just dusted under the rug and all you can say is sorry. Once they've stolen all your stuff what are you going to do then.


walleye-yellow-600.png Not you again...

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#13 2019-07-24 02:25:54

TaskManager
Formerly maxi123
From: i really should update this
Joined: 2015-03-01
Posts: 7,799

Re: Thank you for safe, EE Staff!

yo still waitin for that email notifying me of the data breach


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#14 2019-07-24 02:31:56

Kira
Member
Joined: 2019-04-22
Posts: 388

Re: Thank you for safe, EE Staff!

q1wVj9PcQBCUzOrilp9luw.png?width=441&height=324

meanwhile...

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#15 2019-07-24 03:37:07

Different55
Forum Admin
Joined: 2015-02-07
Posts: 15,951

Re: Thank you for safe, EE Staff!

XxAtillaxX wrote:

Uh, not in the same ways that it is now. In the past, you didn't have tons of people's account details being leaked nor a million emails at that.

Odd statement to make. In the past we didn't have 500,000 Meltdown-esque security vulnerabilities oozing out of every Intel processor, either. Intel didn't suddenly start retroactively sucking. Or the forums and all the fun CSRF attacks recently. It's not that the vulnerabilities weren't there, it's just that the first person to look grabbed everyone's attention and everyone started looking after that.


"Sometimes failing a leap of faith is better than inching forward"
- ShinsukeIto

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#16 2019-07-24 07:04:29

icepegasus
Member
Joined: 2015-08-21
Posts: 63

Re: Thank you for safe, EE Staff!

EEJoranasc wrote:

Mainly it's community's fault for creating the stress for Xenonetix for stupid ****, harassing goes for few days that made Xenonetix depressed, that really goes too far from what I remember. No normal human can handle that, Xenonetix can handle criticism, as long as it's not pointing that staff team is bad or something. Breach isn't really staff team's fault, security happened to be weak since its birth.

Omfg are you serious?
Passwords have been leaked for hundreds of players, and before that ip addresses of hundreds of thousands players have been leaked. You can't expect the community to just play cool with it cause 'The security was leaked from the birth of the game' or because 'Xenonetix is having stress problems'.
In addition to that how are breaches not the **** staffs fault? Sure you can blame it on the hackers. I'ma compare it a second to a huge company. Let's take facebook for example. Millions of people tried hacking facebook but I don't recall anyone succeeding. Great security I won't lie. But what if they did? Wouldn't it be facebook's fault? You really think it's 'the hackers fault' that now all my private information that facebook owns about me is leaked to the whole world?
Think about it. Ofcourse this isn't even close to being as big as facebook, and the information leaked here is minor comparing to facebook, but it doesn't make it less of the ee staffs fault.


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#17 2019-07-24 08:02:20, last edited by Gosha (2019-07-24 08:02:36)

Gosha
Member
From: Russia
Joined: 2015-03-15
Posts: 5,842

Re: Thank you for safe, EE Staff!

Pqwerty wrote:

And how can we complain to him about the progress of EEU when he can't affect how quickly it's built (he doesn't know how to code so it's not like he can magically create EEU)?

Um, yes. Yes we can. Xenonetix made a promise that eeu would come out in January of 2019. After summer 2018 I told him we should focus on eeu and put ee aside for small updates. Instead he gave access to eeu project only to 1 person who didn't even know javascript at that time and later forced him to make useless lobby update. I told him many times that there is almost no time left and you can't make a new game in few months. Instead he continued giving promises about the structure of eeu, it's currency, it's campaigns, etc. It's easy to give promises when you are not the one working on eeu and you have no idea how to write code for eeu. I warned him, he didn't listen.
When January came around there was literally nothing to show even to the staff team. Xenonetix then gave another promise that eeu will come out in "early 2019". When even Josh said that it's a weird promise to give, he said that "well,  June is still in the first half of the year, so it counts as early 2019". He intentionally mislead the community many times. And even now, August is almost here. Eeu doesn't have **** in terms of features. Xenonetix promised shop, currency, economics, campaigns, other stuff. But staff is still working on blocks and smileys, the basics.
We absolutely can and should complain. His bad management lead us here

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#18 2019-07-24 08:03:46

XxAtillaxX
Member
From: Canada
Joined: 2015-11-28
Posts: 3,968

Re: Thank you for safe, EE Staff!

Different55 wrote:

Odd statement to make. In the past we didn't have 500,000 Meltdown-esque security vulnerabilities oozing out of every Intel processor, either. Intel didn't suddenly start retroactively sucking. Or the forums and all the fun CSRF attacks recently. It's not that the vulnerabilities weren't there, it's just that the first person to look grabbed everyone's attention and everyone started looking after that.

It's equally or more odd to state that it's an inevitable occurance and has no circumstantial origins. I wouldn't equate vulnerabilities as though they're all the same in severity and causes. I know you know better than that.
I will concede that it's practically impossible to know whether an event would've never happened without knowing the full chain of events, although it's fair to analyse the probabilities given knowledge of their past, and in this instance, it's increasingly been one of poor responsibility and relatively immature handling of administrative decisions whether it be through negligence or conspiracy against their own staff. On a whim, which is to say Xeno's temper at any given time, anyone can be hired and equally so, fired. Of those, nobody is aware of the privileges they are given, or manage to retain.


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#19 2019-07-24 09:24:59, last edited by Luka504 (2019-07-24 11:01:57)

Luka504
Member
From: Serbia,probs never heard of it
Joined: 2015-02-19
Posts: 2,456

Re: Thank you for safe, EE Staff!

Kira wrote:

Leaks

Oh, dont get me wrong, I completely agree that this never should have happened to begin with and that people are right to be ****.

EE is no longer safe to play, even if the staff manage to bring it back online. Two successful large scale hacking attempts within the same year is inexcusable and shouldn't be tolerated. In fact, if EEU had been released when it was supposed to be released, we would have dodged this bullet quite easily. Xeno's poor management is what got us into this quicksand trap that we just can't crawl out of.

But I'm also saying that there's a lot on Xeno's plate too. It's no secret that our community is very toxic, and that we direct that toxicity and anger to the singular person we believe is to blame - Xenonetix. Constant harassment is going to take its toll on anyone; I mean, I likely wouldn't be able to take it.

Xeno has a lot of flaws, but we aren't completely spotless either. Tl;dr - It's fine to be angry and critical with Xeno, but you don't need to aim for the groin every time you talk to or about him.


How long will it take me to get banned again?
Place your bets right here.

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#20 2019-07-24 10:38:19

peace
Member
From: admin land
Joined: 2015-08-10
Posts: 5,744

Re: Thank you for safe, EE Staff!

yeah well nto everythign is xenos fault some porblems are on PIO's side i mean passwords that arrent case sensitive? really? how **** stupid is that? lets take one password and lets make all combinations possible if you swap letters tto casesensitive

walking123 (i know this maby isnt a very storng password but it sjust an example)

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#21 2019-07-24 11:51:03

Growler
Formerly Snowester
Joined: 2017-05-31
Posts: 347

Re: Thank you for safe, EE Staff!

peace wrote:

yeah well nto everythign is xenos fault some porblems are on PIO's side i mean passwords that arrent case sensitive? really? how **** stupid is that? lets take one password and lets make all combinations possible if you swap letters tto casesensitive

walking123 (i know this maby isnt a very storng password but it sjust an example)

That's completely irrelevant, it has been speculated that there was a keylogger or bad freegame.swf that can get your account details if you type it in. There was updated freegame.swf that shouldn't be here so that's how people might be affected. It's impossible for this to be part of PlayerIO's fault as they hash any password. Nobody can get them, even the hard way so if anything, this is partially EE's fault which leads up to the staff.


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#22 2019-07-24 12:20:49

peace
Member
From: admin land
Joined: 2015-08-10
Posts: 5,744

Re: Thank you for safe, EE Staff!

Growler wrote:

it has been speculated that there was a keylogger or bad freegame.swf that can get your account details if you type it in

Growler wrote:

It's impossible for this to be part of PlayerIO's fault as they hash any password. Nobody can get them, even the hard way so if anything,

??????


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ty anatoly and nikko99 for a golden sig and blueclued for avatar and daneeko for pixelating my sign //forums.everybodyedits.com/img/smilies/cool3bluekeys.pngKFPwcx.jpg

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#23 2019-07-24 18:10:55

Gosha
Member
From: Russia
Joined: 2015-03-15
Posts: 5,842

Re: Thank you for safe, EE Staff!

peace wrote:
Growler wrote:

it has been speculated that there was a keylogger or bad freegame.swf that can get your account details if you type it in

Growler wrote:

It's impossible for this to be part of PlayerIO's fault as they hash any password. Nobody can get them, even the hard way so if anything,

??????

What don't you understand?
Playerio stores hashed passwords and ignores the case. Leaked passwords contain case sensitive plain text passwords. So it can't be playerio to blame.

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#24 2019-07-24 18:23:32

Pqwerty
Member
From: 'Murica
Joined: 2015-10-09
Posts: 113

Re: Thank you for safe, EE Staff!

Luka504 wrote:

Tl;dr - It's fine to be angry and critical with Xeno, but you don't need to aim for the groin every time you talk to or about him.

This is basically what I was trying to say when I said to "lay off him a bit".

I think this whole situation boils down to economics. EE does not have the resources (mainly funding and time) to afford reasonable security and an experienced business leader. So, as sad as it is that 842 accounts got leaked, that the staff still hasn't emailed or posted on social media notifying the people who quit the game that their accounts have been breached, or that Xeno has been over-optimistic on his time estimates, we simply cannot afford to fix all of our problems.

However, I do believe that the staff could fix some of their security problems if they did a few things.
1) They should try to reach out to the people who quit the game who were affected by the breach so that they can minimize the damage.
2) They should leave EE shut down because it will cost too much to fix with too few benefits.
3) If possible, they should make EEU Kongregate exclusive, because it obviously has enough security to prevent a breach.
4) They should put EEO on hold and work exclusively on EEU. EEU is (hopefully) going to be the money-maker for the staff. They can go back to EEO when they have the funding.

Again, I'm not saying we should let Xeno off the hook (we should just not push him over the edge), and I'm not trying to downplay the breach. I'm just saying that EE is poor and these circumstances are unfortunate. The only way EE is going to survive is if we make some sacrifices and continue to push through.


I come in peace. You just can't see it through the screen.

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#25 2019-07-24 18:48:30, last edited by peace (2019-07-24 18:48:52)

peace
Member
From: admin land
Joined: 2015-08-10
Posts: 5,744

Re: Thank you for safe, EE Staff!

Gosha wrote:
peace wrote:
Growler wrote:

it has been speculated that there was a keylogger or bad freegame.swf that can get your account details if you type it in

Growler wrote:

It's impossible for this to be part of PlayerIO's fault as they hash any password. Nobody can get them, even the hard way so if anything,

??????

What don't you understand?
Playerio stores hashed passwords and ignores the case. Leaked passwords contain case sensitive plain text passwords. So it can't be playerio to blame.

if playerIO hashes the passwords how can they be leaked then?! this shoudlnt be possible as stated above


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