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#1 2018-12-08 11:46:01

cpcrabs
Member
Joined: 2015-10-18
Posts: 157

Cheating Survey

My friend and I are disagreeing over what is considered "cheating" in a campaign level.

They say that using hacks to skip parts is cheating, but if you get someone else to beat it for you then it's fine. I disagree with that and think that if you didn't do it yourself, then you cheated.

However, I'm setting up a strawpoll to see what everyone else thinks.

https://www.strawpoll.me/17002657/r


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#2 2018-12-08 11:49:06

Emily
Member
From: The Farlands
Joined: 2015-07-27
Posts: 59

Re: Cheating Survey

You don't have enough money to buy something. So a friend pays it for you for Christmas. You didn't steal it from the store. It was payed off by your friend. So as long as the effort required to beat the map is used it shouldn't be seen as cheating.


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#3 2018-12-08 12:39:01

den3107
Member
From: Netherlands
Joined: 2015-04-24
Posts: 1,013

Re: Cheating Survey

Doing a level for somebody per se certainly isn't cheating, but campaigns are different.

Campaigns are tests of skill and reward you if you finish. You can't let your big brother run for the Olympics, but claim all the prices for yourself.

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#4 2018-12-08 13:11:20

peace
Member
From: admin land
Joined: 2015-08-10
Posts: 6,665

Re: Cheating Survey

den3107 wrote:

Doing a level for somebody per se certainly isn't cheating, but campaigns are different.

Campaigns are tests of skill and reward you if you finish. You can't let your big brother run for the Olympics, but claim all the prices for yourself.

Emily wrote:

You don't have enough money to buy something. So a friend pays it for you for Christmas. You didn't steal it from the store. It was payed off by your friend. So as long as the effort required to beat the map is used it shouldn't be seen as cheating.

its literaly rote above you the requirements ro the rewards are done so it snot cheating the requiremnts are followed corectly only by someone else the same can be done if i beat an extreme campaing an di deicid eo tgiv emy 15 gems to a friend


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#5 2018-12-08 14:03:24

cpcrabs
Member
Joined: 2015-10-18
Posts: 157

Re: Cheating Survey

Emily wrote:

You don't have enough money to buy something. So a friend pays it for you for Christmas. You didn't steal it from the store. It was payed off by your friend. So as long as the effort required to beat the map is used it shouldn't be seen as cheating.

Campaigns are tests of your skill, the rewards should only be given to people who could actually obtain them. What does a devil skull mean if somebody wears it who didn't even earn it?

Your metaphor does not fit this situation at all. Skill is not a currency, it's not spent.

den3107 wrote:

You can't let your big brother run for the Olympics, but claim all the prices for yourself.

^ I completely agree with this.


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#6 2018-12-08 14:27:07

mutantdevle
Member
From: Hell
Joined: 2015-03-31
Posts: 3,154
Website

Re: Cheating Survey

Ultimately, it's someone else's choice if they want to do it for you. I wouldn't encourage having someone else do it for you, but it isn't cheating. For it to be cheating, there'd need to be specific rules against it. It's not cheating, just exploiting.


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#7 2018-12-08 14:46:31

Tomahawk
Forum Mod
From: BiH/UK
Joined: 2015-02-18
Posts: 2,212

Re: Cheating Survey

But if someone else does it for you, it’s effectively a shared account.


One bot to rule them all, one bot to find them. One bot to bring them all... and with this cliché blind them.

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#8 2018-12-08 14:51:21

Luka504
Member
From: Serbia,probs never heard of it
Joined: 2015-02-19
Posts: 2,651

Re: Cheating Survey

mutantdevle wrote:

For it to be cheating, there'd need to be specific rules against it.

Let's try a different example then. Let's say you're playing timed chess with someone, and they suddenly punch you and knock you out cold. There are no rules in chess that say that you can't do this, thus it's completely viable to do. Right?
You don't need to explicitly label something as "cheating" for it to be cheating.


How long will it take me to get banned again?
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#9 2018-12-08 16:16:23, last edited by peace (2018-12-08 16:16:56)

peace
Member
From: admin land
Joined: 2015-08-10
Posts: 6,665

Re: Cheating Survey

Luka504 wrote:
mutantdevle wrote:

For it to be cheating, there'd need to be specific rules against it.

Let's try a different example then. Let's say you're playing timed chess with someone, and they suddenly punch you and knock you out cold. There are no rules in chess that say that you can't do this, thus it's completely viable to do. Right?
You don't need to explicitly label something as "cheating" for it to be cheating.

exept thats forbiden by the law and you can cal the cops for it

EDIT i mean you then break rules of somethign other outisde the chess


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#10 2018-12-08 16:48:38

mikelolsuperman
Member
From: North Korea
Joined: 2016-06-26
Posts: 1,681
Website

Re: Cheating Survey

I also think that it is cheating, but there is no way to check. Yes staff can monitor chat in ee but it's not like you go to some extreme level, wait for someone to finish it and ask 'Can you do this campaign for me? I suck. Pass: Hello123 email: [email protected]'. You would obviously go to people you trust. These people you trust are usually also friends, so you might have their number or have them as friend on some other platform so you can just ask there. Looking for IP change could work but it wouldn't really work as people might be using a new pc or they use a VPN.


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#11 2018-12-08 16:51:10

peace
Member
From: admin land
Joined: 2015-08-10
Posts: 6,665

Re: Cheating Survey

yeah pcs can die suddenly


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thanks hg for making this much better

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#12 2018-12-08 16:53:18

Luka504
Member
From: Serbia,probs never heard of it
Joined: 2015-02-19
Posts: 2,651

Re: Cheating Survey

peace wrote:

exept thats forbiden by the law and you can cal the cops for it

EDIT i mean you then break rules of somethign other outisde the chess

That is true, knocking people out for no reason is illegal, however I am speaking purely from the perspective of chess, where laws don't come into consideration.


How long will it take me to get banned again?
Place your bets right here.

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#13 2018-12-08 19:01:59

KirbyKareem
Member
From: America
Joined: 2018-03-31
Posts: 433

Re: Cheating Survey

cpcrabs wrote:
Emily wrote:

You don't have enough money to buy something. So a friend pays it for you for Christmas. You didn't steal it from the store. It was payed off by your friend. So as long as the effort required to beat the map is used it shouldn't be seen as cheating.

Campaigns are tests of your skill, the rewards should only be given to people who could actually obtain them. What does a devil skull mean if somebody wears it who didn't even earn it?

Your metaphor does not fit this situation at all. Skill is not a currency, it's not spent.

den3107 wrote:

You can't let your big brother run for the Olympics, but claim all the prices for yourself.

^ I completely agree with this.

yes it is. It's currency kind of like the way energy is. If you play for a while, you'll start to lose skill and make more mistakes. Take a break and you get your skill bakc.


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#14 2018-12-08 19:13:02

mutantdevle
Member
From: Hell
Joined: 2015-03-31
Posts: 3,154
Website

Re: Cheating Survey

Luka504 wrote:
mutantdevle wrote:

For it to be cheating, there'd need to be specific rules against it.

Let's try a different example then. Let's say you're playing timed chess with someone, and they suddenly punch you and knock you out cold. There are no rules in chess that say that you can't do this, thus it's completely viable to do. Right?
You don't need to explicitly label something as "cheating" for it to be cheating.

I mean, it is lol. If you purposely harm your opponent in any form of sports your bound to be disqualified. Your argument that laws aren't in consideration is stupid because they really are. I'm sure even if no legal action is taken you'd be disqualified and possibly banned from participating.


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#15 2018-12-08 19:54:52

Mait
Member
From: Estonia
Joined: 2015-08-10
Posts: 513

Re: Cheating Survey

Maybe an admin could answer this please?


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Let's get to 5000.

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#16 2018-12-08 20:20:54

Luka504
Member
From: Serbia,probs never heard of it
Joined: 2015-02-19
Posts: 2,651

Re: Cheating Survey

mutantdevle wrote:

I'm sure even if no legal action is taken you'd be disqualified and possibly banned from participating.

That's precisely it. If you cheat, you get disqualified and banned from participating. Hitting someone in chess is cheating, however it is never directly stated in the rules of chess that you can't hit someone. You don't need to label it as "cheating" since common sense tells you that you shouldn't do that.

If legality is an issue, there are other things you can do that aren't in chess rules and aren't illegal at the same time. There's no official rule that says that you can't glue your opponent's pieces to the board, for example.


How long will it take me to get banned again?
Place your bets right here.

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#17 2018-12-08 20:28:50

Enurp
Formerly ThuggishPrune
From: Ohio
Joined: 2015-06-20
Posts: 456

Re: Cheating Survey

i told kirby i would pay him some serious vbucks if he beat starlight for me and all he did was spout off bedwar memes instead of giving me a real answer

please send help

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#18 2018-12-08 22:13:57

capasha
Member
Joined: 2015-02-21
Posts: 3,820

Re: Cheating Survey

Tomahawk wrote:

But if someone else does it for you, it’s effectively a shared account.

What I think is that the owners want to get down all MASS-shared accounts.
I have shared mine multiple times because there are too hard worlds.

(Yes we give out this npc or smiley or aura at the end of the campaign) = Always a hard world.
I have never seen a campaign where you get npc, smiley or aura in an easy world.
Which mean that this game only focus on good players and not people that can't play too good or is new players.

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#19 2018-12-08 22:18:57

Zoey2070
Moderation Team
From: Shakuras
Joined: 2015-02-15
Posts: 5,344

Re: Cheating Survey

both are cheating


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#20 2018-12-08 22:54:43

XxAtillaxX
Member
From: Canada
Joined: 2015-11-28
Posts: 4,005

Re: Cheating Survey

It doesn't really matter what you constitute as cheating when it's tactically unfeasible to prevent.

I think the incentive structure is at fault, and it's a testament as to how poorly thought out the campaign system truly was, when it not only creates a disincentive in regard to playing normal worlds, but is also a system which allows players to negatively affect the overall economy through entirely unpreventable occurrences like cheating.

I believe it'd be far better to have a system in-game that rewards players who actively participate in and create ordinary worlds, rather than rendering ordinary worlds as a waste of time in comparison to playing the copy paste cookie cutter campaign worlds brought to you by ML & Friends Ltd.


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#21 2018-12-09 00:26:27

mutantdevle
Member
From: Hell
Joined: 2015-03-31
Posts: 3,154
Website

Re: Cheating Survey

Luka504 wrote:

If legality is an issue, there are other things you can do that aren't in chess rules and aren't illegal at the same time. There's no official rule that says that you can't glue your opponent's pieces to the board, for example.

I mean, you're wrong. I'm sure there's a rule about not sabotaging your opponent. Furthermore, chess is a game where the rules define what you CAN do rather than what you can't. Hence, anything outside of the rules is against the rules.


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#22 2018-12-09 02:17:05

Andymakeer
Member
From: Nine-tails Vale
Joined: 2016-05-29
Posts: 302

Re: Cheating Survey

I think its not cheating.

Campaigns are not competition, nobody loses when other wins.

You cannot let other players do the campaign for you than you claim the prize... why?

There is no "prize", a prize is something only the WINNER wins, and as i said, there is no first place, everyone can win.

Campaigns gives you rewards by completing them. "Skill level" should only matter when you are competing against other players.

If you asked for another player do a campaign for you, it depends if that other player wants too.

There is nothing oblying the other party to do the job, neither there is something oblying the player to finish the campaign to keep playing.

Optional behaviour should not be considered "cheating" at all.


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#23 2018-12-09 02:28:01

RavaTroll
Member
From: France
Joined: 2015-02-16
Posts: 816

Re: Cheating Survey

As a campaign curator, I think it's cheating to use hacks for sure. I think it's cheating to ask for a friend to do it too, but there's nothing to do about it except reminding you that you will regret it and never feel that joy you could have had by doing it by yourself. I cheated my way through a challenging game once and never replayed it because it took all the fun out of it. Don't do it. Being proud of your accomplishements is much better than cheating your way through success.


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#24 2018-12-09 02:42:17

Loganyoshi
Member
From: I am everywhere and everything
Joined: 2015-05-25
Posts: 261

Re: Cheating Survey

RavaTroll wrote:

As a campaign curator, I think it's cheating to use hacks for sure. I think it's cheating to ask for a friend to do it too, but there's nothing to do about it except reminding you that you will regret it and never feel that joy you could have had by doing it by yourself. I cheated my way through a challenging game once and never replayed it because it took all the fun out of it. Don't do it. Being proud of your accomplishements is much better than cheating your way through success.

Well said. :,)

Also I highly agree with this. I definitely think of "Having someone else do a campaign for you" as cheating.

Ok so imagine it this way: a hack for a campaign lets you cheat through it without having to do any work or effort involved.
Now get this: Your friend could be considered a "Hack Engine" - He does it for you and you don't have to do any work or effort.

Also it makes people like me feel like that extreme rewards (such as the red dragon) aren't special. They're supposed to be awarded to people that have the perseverance and skill to do a campaign, not by simply giving a difficult task to a friend. Toughen up.
I just hate it when people have a red dragon, but then they go on to tell me that their friend did it for them. This is saddening, because these types of people are removing the "special" attribute that there is on a dragon smiley, or like the galaxy aura and devil smiley.

People like me worked really hard to achieve accomplishments such as the TnT Campaign, and please, don't make our hard work feel like it was nothing by having someone else simply do it for you.

Also, as RavaTroll said, you wouldn't feel the same level of satisfaction, which I think is a crucial aspect that you would want when doing something extremely hard.

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#25 2018-12-09 09:48:55

Luka504
Member
From: Serbia,probs never heard of it
Joined: 2015-02-19
Posts: 2,651

Re: Cheating Survey

mutantdevle wrote:

Hence, anything outside of the rules is against the rules.

Yeah that's.... Kind of what I'm trying to prove here. There are rules that aren't written directly but if you break them you are still cheating. These unwritten rules appear everywhere, from chess to EE, and you still have to obey those rules for a truly fair experience. Getting someone else to do campaigns for you isn't fair at all, you're earning rewards for no placed-in effort.

mutantdevle wrote:

Furthermore, chess is a game where the rules define what you CAN do rather than what you can't. I'm sure there's a rule about not sabotaging your opponent.

Don't these two sentences sort of contradict each other? You say that chess doesn't define what you can't do, but at the same time you say that there's a rule where you can't sabotage someone.


How long will it take me to get banned again?
Place your bets right here.

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