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#26 2018-11-15 03:09:33

Zoey2070
Moderation Team
From: Shakuras
Joined: 2015-02-15
Posts: 5,219

Re: US 2018 Mid-term election discussion

Master1 wrote:

'm sorry, when does Trump ever incite violence

not sure if joking or not but here u go:

https://youtu.be/WIs2L2nUL-0 for one


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#27 2018-11-15 03:49:37

Master1
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From: Crait
Joined: 2015-02-15
Posts: 4,396

Re: US 2018 Mid-term election discussion

Zoey2070 wrote:
Master1 wrote:

'm sorry, when does Trump ever incite violence

not sure if joking or not but here u go:

https://youtu.be/WIs2L2nUL-0 for one

Thanks for giving me some quotes that have been edited to all hell. I'll still talk about it anyways though.

From what I'm seeing, the "If you see someone getting ready to throw a tomato, knock the crap out of them" statement is the only one I'd MAYBE consider to be inciting violence. I say maybe because it could also be a matter of self-defense. Someone throws something at you or someone else, I wouldn't expect anyone to just stand by and do nothing.

The rest of these are him just talking about what he would've done in particular scenarios. He's not encouraging anyone else to do the same.

Also I'd like to point out in the same video he says several times that he does not condone violence. Sounds pretty violent to me? I guess??


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#28 2018-11-15 06:40:02

azurepudding
Member
Joined: 2016-11-18
Posts: 663

Re: US 2018 Mid-term election discussion

Master1 wrote:
azurepudding wrote:

We really don't need this kind of meme in this age of brainwash.  We have Trump who incites violence constantly, as well as hate groups like the proud boys who literally tell right wingers to murder those who oppose trump.

This is getting really dangerous.  It might seem like "just for the lulz" to the less aware, but it's way more dangerous than you think.

I'm sorry, when does Trump ever incite violence? The only people I ever see inciting violence are those on the left who go out of their way to call everyone who disagrees with them racists, bigots, misogynists, fascists, homophobes etc. How is this behavior fine, but calling someone an NPC of all things isn't?

To dismiss someone else's opinions as brainwashing is honestly one of the most closed-minded, selfish remarks one could possibly make, and shows a lot about your character. I'm not brainwashed to like trump, honestly my main reason for supporting him is because nobody else does. Everyone sees what the media wants them to see and just goes with it. They see constant hate for the guy, so they jump on board and give it to him as well. I simply refuse to hate anybody, including trump, until I've at least met them myself and can form my own opinion through my own eyes.

I dare you to find an unedited full-length speech of trumps where he clearly calls for violence against anyone else. It doesn't exist, because the only time you see that is when it's taken completely out of context.

Punch them in the face.

Hillary's gonna take away the second amendment and there's nothing you can do about it.. well, the second amendment people can do one thing.

I'll pay your legal fees.

Knock the crap out of them.

And when a white supremacist ran over a group of protesters, killing one, he claims there are "very fine people" on both sides.  Even after the march of the white supremacists wielding lit tiki torches, chanting "Jews will not replace us."  Wasn't he going on about mobs..? huh.

The media is the enemy of the people.  Then we see an attempted bombing of the media and former presidents on the left.

I don't think all Trump supporters are racists/bigots/misogynists/and so on, but a lot are unaware or un/misinformed.  The KKK, several white supremacist groups, proud boys.. are all proud Trump supporters which should be a sign as a pretty bad thing.  Some of my friends IRL said they voted for Trump, and in an attempt to not risk our friendship, I ask them what they think about the things he's done- typically starting with the Hollywood Access video.  So far none have heard about the video.  The one where he says he "grabs women by the ****" without even asking- that when "you're a star, you can get away with it."  He treats women as objects.  This gets skewed/twisted as "Well we knew he loves women" on republican news channels such as Fox.. but the tape is an admittance to sexual assault.  That's nothing to shrug off- it's not a claim or accusation, it's right there on video.

It is not wrong to call a racist a racist, a sexist a sexist, and so on, but it is wrong to falsely accuse someone of being one of these things.  However Trump has shown himself as these things time and time again- claiming that Mexico is sending their thugs and rapists, claiming the caravan is here to invade when they're going through the legal process to legally enter the US, continuously calling black women "stupid" and similar insults (he insults basically everyone, but IQ and intelligence-related insults are so often saved for black women).  When people treat a sexist/racist/etc man as a god, it's really hard to not see them as those things too.  Like seriously, there's some cult-like devotion to the guy, who believe he has literally never done a wrong thing.

I call it brainwash as despite everything, his supporters still support him anyway.  Even Trump claimed he could shoot someone and not lose any supporters.  He openly admitted that his fanbase is blindly loyal- that he could do literally any terrible thing, and they wouldn't even consider it.  That's an insult to his entire fanbase and- yep, it still doesn't seem to matter to them anyway.  How is that not brainwash?  He actually thinks his supporters are too dumb to know better.

It's not out of context at all.  You can watch these videos unedited, and the things he says are indeed the things he says.  This "out of context" card is so over-used to defend the indefensible.  This is gonna be condescending as hell (but heck you were with me), but I think you mean well but you really are out of the loop.  The so called "fake news" isn't as fake as Trump declares it to be.  Does he ever explain how it's fake?  He just goes on about how it's fake and that it's soooo unfair to him.  I don't think he's ever explained how it's fake- he just calls it fake.  And the thing is..?  A lot of it's just video proof, using his own words, and what the guy says is what the guy says.  If he says he can grab women by the genitals and get away with it- it means just that.  "Fake news" is Trump speak for "This information makes me look bad."

Man, I can go on and on, there's just so much crap on him, that it's easy to forget so many things.  And I remember when Obama saluting with a coffee cup in his hand was a "scandal" over at Fox.  Christ.

EDIT: "honestly my main reason for supporting him is because nobody else does." is probably literally the worst reason to support someone.  perhaps see on WHY so many don't support him.  it shouldn't be the fact that they don't- but why.  Your reason for support is no better than the nonreason of "just cuz."

Last edited by azurepudding (2018-11-15 08:32:22)

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#29 2018-11-15 09:49:28

Master1
Campaign Team
From: Crait
Joined: 2015-02-15
Posts: 4,396

Re: US 2018 Mid-term election discussion

azurepudding wrote:

Punch them in the face.

Hillary's gonna take away the second amendment and there's nothing you can do about it.. well, the second amendment people can do one thing.

I'll pay your legal fees.

Knock the crap out of them.

That's nice hearing you say it with no other context, videos please.

azurepudding wrote:

And when a white supremacist ran over a group of protesters, killing one, he claims there are "very fine people" on both sides.  Even after the march of the white supremacists wielding lit tiki torches, chanting "Jews will not replace us."  Wasn't he going on about mobs..? huh.

Are there not very fine people on both the left and right? It sounds like you have an issue with the timing more than the actual statement.

azurepudding wrote:

The media is the enemy of the people.  Then we see an attempted bombing of the media and former presidents on the left.

Unless you're suggesting trump sent those bombs I don't see how that's hardly his fault.

azurepudding wrote:

I don't think all Trump supporters are racists/bigots/misogynists/and so on, but a lot are unaware or un/misinformed.

Here we go again.

azurepudding wrote:

The KKK, several white supremacist groups, proud boys.. are all proud Trump supporters which should be a sign as a pretty bad thing.

So now you're essentially blaming trump for the actions of others? Logic at it's finest.

azurepudding wrote:

Some of my friends IRL said they voted for Trump, and in an attempt to not risk our friendship, I ask them what they think about the things he's done- typically starting with the Hollywood Access video.  So far none have heard about the video.  The one where he says he "grabs women by the ****" without even asking- that when "you're a star, you can get away with it."  He treats women as objects.  This gets skewed/twisted as "Well we knew he loves women" on republican news channels such as Fox.. but the tape is an admittance to sexual assault.  That's nothing to shrug off- it's not a claim or accusation, it's right there on video.

I love this argument so much. Literally hating on someone for something they said over 10 years ago, classic.

For the record, he apologized.

Someone who truly meant that would stick to it.

azurepudding wrote:

It is not wrong to call a racist a racist, a sexist a sexist, and so on, but it is wrong to falsely accuse someone of being one of these things.

Indeed, but who are you to say someone is one of those things. You have no idea what people are actually thinking. I can say whatever the hell I want, when I want. I could make up the most racist-sounding statement you've ever heard and shout it at the top of my lungs. That does not mean that I am a racist at heart.

It's possible for me to say something like "I hate blacks" and not actually hate blacks. It's a stupid thing to say, but it's not a guarantee that the person saying it is actually a racist. I would look more towards people who take it to a whole new level, like holding anti-black rallies specifically with the purpose of demeaning them, or the more obvious case, murdering them. Those are your true racists. To fit Trump or anyone else not doing those things into the same category is despicable, and a huge insult not just to them, but also the ones who have suffered from the horrors of true racism.

azurepudding wrote:

However Trump has shown himself as these things time and time again- claiming that Mexico is sending their thugs and rapists

Some of the people that come from Mexico are infact thugs and/or rapists. This is a fact. Not racism. Had he said "All mexicans that come in are thugs/rapists" I may be able to compromise with you on that.

azurepudding wrote:

claiming the caravan is here to invade when they're going through the legal process to legally enter the US, continuously calling black women "stupid" and similar insults (he insults basically everyone, but IQ and intelligence-related insults are so often saved for black women).  When people treat a sexist/racist/etc man as a god, it's really hard to not see them as those things too.  Like seriously, there's some cult-like devotion to the guy, who believe he has literally never done a wrong thing.

I don't think anyones saying he's never done a wrong thing, everybody does. It's just that people consistently make things out to be way worse than they actually are.

Also why would you specify calling black women "stupid" - skin color and gender shouldn't matter. I'd rephrase that to "calling people stupid" - Anyway I agree, yeah kind of a dumb thing to say. Consider that something he's done wrong //forums.everybodyedits.com/img/smilies/smile

azurepudding wrote:

I call it brainwash as despite everything, his supporters still support him anyway.  Even Trump claimed he could shoot someone and not lose any supporters.  He openly admitted that his fanbase is blindly loyal- that he could do literally any terrible thing, and they wouldn't even consider it.  That's an insult to his entire fanbase and- yep, it still doesn't seem to matter to them anyway.  How is that not brainwash?  He actually thinks his supporters are too dumb to know better.

It's not brainwash, it's difference of opinion. Nothing you've mentioned so far has been anywhere close to over-the-top extreme. If he did shoot someone, he'd certainly lose my support. Please PM me the video link for him saying the rest of this thanks.

azurepudding wrote:

It's not out of context at all.

lol

azurepudding wrote:

You can watch these videos unedited, and the things he says are indeed the things he says.  This "out of context" card is so over-used to defend the indefensible.  This is gonna be condescending as hell (but heck you were with me), but I think you mean well but you really are out of the loop.

I watch this stuff everyday man, from both sides. not out of the loop at all.

azurepudding wrote:

The so called "fake news" isn't as fake as Trump declares it to be.  Does he ever explain how it's fake?  He just goes on about how it's fake and that it's soooo unfair to him.  I don't think he's ever explained how it's fake- he just calls it fake.  And the thing is..?  A lot of it's just video proof, using his own words, and what the guy says is what the guy says.  If he says he can grab women by the genitals and get away with it- it means just that.  "Fake news" is Trump speak for "This information makes me look bad."

I agree, fake news is a dumb term for it. I'd prefer to call it heavily biased news.

azurepudding wrote:

Man, I can go on and on, there's just so much crap on him, that it's easy to forget so many things.  And I remember when Obama saluting with a coffee cup in his hand was a "scandal" over at Fox.  Christ.

Maybe you shouldn't though, unless you can come up with better arguments next time.

azurepudding wrote:

EDIT: "honestly my main reason for supporting him is because nobody else does." is probably literally the worst reason to support someone.  perhaps see on WHY so many don't support him.  it shouldn't be the fact that they don't- but why.  Your reason for support is no better than the nonreason of "just cuz."

I guess I can elaborate on that for you. My main reason for supporting him originally was because so many people hated on him but I didn't see it. Back in 2016 I didn't like either of the candidates that much, but probably would've voted for Hillary at the time. (Wasn't registered to vote yet) It wasn't until after the election, literally day one, before the man even attempted to do anything; people were already acting as if he ruined the country. This was a problem for me, and I decided to swap from Hillary to Trump and give the man a chance unlike everyone else.

I'm glad I did because he's gone above and beyond all my expectations.


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#30 2018-11-15 11:00:58

NorwegianboyEE
Member
From: Norway
Joined: 2015-03-16
Posts: 890

Re: US 2018 Mid-term election discussion

Master1 wrote:

I'm glad I did because he's gone above and beyond all my expectations.

So you support Trump because you were one of the avid watchers of "Triggered SJW’s and leftists react to Trump inauguration" videos? You could find those sorts of people on the other side as well during Obama’s inauguration you know. I guess while the republican propaganda machine loves to decry "triggered leftists" these days, they forget that there were those people on their own side that were lynching obama caricatures and assaulting minorities that day when Obama became president.

Anyway, i fail to see what positive effects Trump has actually had on America and the world. The fake news concept has caused nothing but misery as people distrust the media whose sole responsibility is informing people and rather take to facebook posts written by anonymous people whose motive and credibility is unverifiabe. The way he says whatever he wants without any fear of repercussion is encouraging neo-nazis to scream louder, which is their best way of gaining traction, bringing fear to many people that fear the resurgence of totalitarianism in the world. He has also given way for a mood where any form of political opposition is seen as inherently bad, which is not the way a healthy democracy should operate. It’s more about sides now, "us vs them" rather than focusing on specific issues. Like how the fact that Kavanaugh being Republican is more important than his shady past. It’s not all bad though since the underage girl dating Roy Moore didn’t get granted office, people had some morals... but Trump did support him so there’s that. He’d even support a pedophile if it means getting an Republican into office.

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#31 2018-11-15 12:11:10

azurepudding
Member
Joined: 2016-11-18
Posts: 663

Re: US 2018 Mid-term election discussion

Master1 wrote:

Why do people do this?  It makes it absolute hell for the next response to respond in kind.  Quote breaks within quote breaks are a nightmare.

Zoey already posted the video which you dismissed already.  How are these out of context?  Protesters appear and he reminisces about the old days where you could punch protesters in the face and says we need more of this.  Then a supporter punches a protester in the face.  What other context could this mean??  Look- you're being like any typical Trump supporter right now and making excuses to shrug off the terrible things he's doing.  Why is this acceptable, how is it not inciting violence when he promises to pay the legal fees, and to defend those in court for performing violent acts?

He was referring to the protest occurring that day.  While it's fair to say that those on the right's side during that protest might be "fine people," that is NOT the thing to say when someone literally ran over a crowd, killing someone, as well as when white supremacists are marching down the streets with lit tiki torches.  That is ignoring the real issue and empowering white supremacy.  He should have denounced that to all hell and state their support is unwelcomed.  But no, he didn't want to offend a big chunk of his base like that and acted like both sides were equal.

He didn't send the bombs, but he incites violence all the time- calling the media the enemy of the people, inciting those to hurt political opponents, and then these attempted assassinations happen.  This comparison to the Bernie Sanders supporter kept being made which is a false equivalency since Bernie has not once incited violence whereas Trump does so at almost every rally.  If he never incited violence it's very possible this attempted bombing never would have occurred- we can't know for certain, but if it happened anyway, then there wouldn't be blame on Trump for it.  Any large enough group will have some crazy people, which is why it's critical to never even suggest or imply or joke about violence.  His base listens, and if they think they can do these things and get away with it, they will.  There was a man who groped a woman on a train, who said he thought he could do it because Trump says so and has done it as well.

That is a very large leap of logic to suggest someone isn't racist for shouting something like that.  You are lowering the bar of racism to incredibly low levels.  He said that Mexico isn't sending their best- that only "some" are good people.  What message do you think this makes..?  That the majority of mexican immigrants are criminals, killers, and rapists.  This is racist fear-mongering.  He was not stating a fact.  A fact would be "mexicans can be criminals" or "some mexicans are criminals," which he didn't say.  Implying most mexicans are criminals is not a fact, it's a misleading racist lie.

Skin and gender don't matter to me, I was pointing out he mainly saves insults regarding low intelligence for black women.  Everyone else is usually rude, a liar, fake, a loser, etc.  Black women have consistently been "stupid," "dumb," or "low IQ" to Trump.

It is really disturbing how so many people excuse his words being "oh it was 10 years ago" or "it was just locker room talk."  That excuse makes more sense for a young teen- we've all said stupid things as kids, but the guy was I think in his 50's when that tape was recorded.  I also hate how it keeps being minimized as "him saying lewd things," when it's not just that, but an admittance to sexual assault.  The words he uses are lousy, him cheating on his wife with **** actresses is also lousy and despicable, but admitting to sexual assault is an admittance to a serious crime.  I don't care if he said "****."  The video wouldn't have been any less disturbing if he said "crotch" instead.  He admitted to sexual assault, and that's what it is.

There is a serious brainwash going on.  Maybe not with most, but there is brainwash occurring.  Have you seen the proud boys videos where they literally command you to murder those who oppose Trump?  Any negative news about him he wants shut down.  He only wants news like Fox News to report positively on him.  He revoked Jim Acosta's credentials to shut him down for asking hard questions- and get this, the White House put out a doctored video that made it appear that Acosta had chopped at the intern's arm.  They sped the film up and added blur filters.  They're not interested in free speech or the truth.  They only want their dear leader to be protected because he's the biggest snowflake of them all.

You can call CNN selective news.  However, they still report the truth, which Trump keeps bashing as "fake news" and "the enemy of the people."  It's IMPORTANT for us to know all the crap he's doing- heck, you don't even have to dig for it, he openly spews out hideous things all the time at his rallies.  Why is it CNN's fault for reporting what Trump said himself?  And then he calls them fake news for it?  It's almost like he's calling himself fake??  How is it fake to report what he said?  If things are twisted and misconstrued- sure, but he never seems to explain why it's fake, he just calls it fake.  Why?  Because it's not actually fake, it's entirely true news that shows how terrible he can be, so the easiest thing is to simply dismiss it as "fake." 

Coming into this argument with a "Trump is always right" mentality doesn't make my arguments poor.  A lot of your counters were simply dismissals or dodging what I was getting at.

People were freaking out because of how terrible of a person he is, and being a wealthy guy himself, has little reason to think about the middle class.  He has taken advantage of countless loop holes to avoid paying taxes (meaning everyone else has to make up for his taxes).  Corporate donations are used to buy politicians to influence votes based on what's in the corporation's interests, and here we just elected the corrupter instead, eliminating the middle man so to speak.  He's also so thin-skinned and with enough nukes to blow the planet from the galaxy at least 20 times over, him being the most powerful man in the world is a very scary thing.  He constantly attacks our allies and buddy buddies with authoritarians.  The guy has several times over shown he is a bully, and has admitted to sexual assault on tape.  He's supposed to be a role model for all of America and the world.  Oof, what else?

You must have low expectations.  Anything positive of him hasn't surpassed Obama, and then there's the concentrated metric **** ton of crap that comes along with it.  Any other job in the country, a percent of a percent of any of this would get you fired.  If one were in the middle of an interview for a job and someone brought in a tape showing admittance to sexual assault, their **** would be gone in a second.  No consideration.  Instant rejection.  Highest power in the land?  No problem, right this way Mister President.

Last edited by azurepudding (2018-11-15 12:24:07)

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#32 2018-11-15 18:28:35

Enurp
Formerly ThuggishPrune
From: Ohio
Joined: 2015-06-20
Posts: 474

Re: US 2018 Mid-term election discussion

You are fake news azure

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#33 2018-11-15 22:48:55

Pingohits
Member
From: aids lizard
Joined: 2015-02-15
Posts: 7,577

Re: US 2018 Mid-term election discussion

Trump is good for the environment


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#34 2018-11-16 03:29:41

Master1
Campaign Team
From: Crait
Joined: 2015-02-15
Posts: 4,396

Re: US 2018 Mid-term election discussion

azurepudding wrote:
Master1 wrote:

Why do people do this?  It makes it absolute hell for the next response to respond in kind.  Quote breaks within quote breaks are a nightmare.

Because it's the easiest way to reply to a wall of text. Prepare yourself, because I'm doing it again.

azurepudding wrote:

Zoey already posted the video which you dismissed already.  How are these out of context?

Because it's just lines of him saying things, no information as to what happened before or after the statement. That is literally the definition of "out of context"

azurepudding wrote:

Protesters appear and he reminisces about the old days where you could punch protesters in the face and says we need more of this.  Then a supporter punches a protester in the face.  What other context could this mean??  Look- you're being like any typical Trump supporter right now and making excuses to shrug off the terrible things he's doing.  Why is this acceptable, how is it not inciting violence when he promises to pay the legal fees, and to defend those in court for performing violent acts?

I'm not making excuses, I'm simply asking for a full unedited video of what happened before and after saying these things. Unlike you, I will not base my opinions off of just one or two lines of something he said. If you would like to try and change my mind, I'm very open to that, but I require everything from the speech. Full context or don't bother bringing it up.

azurepudding wrote:

He was referring to the protest occurring that day.  While it's fair to say that those on the right's side during that protest might be "fine people," that is NOT the thing to say when someone literally ran over a crowd, killing someone, as well as when white supremacists are marching down the streets with lit tiki torches.  That is ignoring the real issue and empowering white supremacy.  He should have denounced that to all hell and state their support is unwelcomed.  But no, he didn't want to offend a big chunk of his base like that and acted like both sides were equal.

Not denouncing something does not mean that you are in agreement with it. I think those things are terrible but I never stood up and publicly denounced it.

azurepudding wrote:

He didn't send the bombs, but he incites violence all the time- calling the media the enemy of the people

When the media is heavily biased, yes they can be an enemy by trying to manipulate others into believing their own personal values. Again, most news stations only report what they want you to see.

azurepudding wrote:

inciting those to hurt political opponents, and then these attempted assassinations happen.  This comparison to the Bernie Sanders supporter kept being made which is a false equivalency since Bernie has not once incited violence whereas Trump does so at almost every rally.

You keep saying this but your proof of it so far is shaky at best.

azurepudding wrote:

If he never incited violence it's very possible this attempted bombing never would have occurred- we can't know for certain, but if it happened anyway, then there wouldn't be blame on Trump for it.

There's no blame for trump anyways. Unless he specifically told someone "Go bomb these people" then it has absolutely nothing to do with him. Don't blame someone for someone else's idiotic decisions. The guy who did is the one who took it too far, not Trump.

azurepudding wrote:

Any large enough group will have some crazy people, which is why it's critical to never even suggest or imply or joke about violence.  His base listens, and if they think they can do these things and get away with it, they will.  There was a man who groped a woman on a train, who said he thought he could do it because Trump says so and has done it as well.

Yeah crazy people exist, but joking about anything is no reason to blame somebody else for the actions of said crazy people.

Trump never said it was okay to grope women. The guy is clearly lying.

azurepudding wrote:

That is a very large leap of logic to suggest someone isn't racist for shouting something like that.  You are lowering the bar of racism to incredibly low levels.

I'm making a distinction between saying something, and actually believing it. If I don't believe in my heart that another race is inferior to my own, then I am not a racist. Saying stuff has absolutely nothing to do with it. It's those who truly believe it that act in the most inhumane ways. I'm not lowering the bar. Speech is not racism. True racism is much deeper than that. Slavery is racism. Segregation is racism. Murder of one specific race is racism. Saying "some of these guys might be rapists or thugs" is a fact, not racism.

azurepudding wrote:

He said that Mexico isn't sending their best- that only "some" are good people.  What message do you think this makes..?

If that's from the same speech I'm remembering, he was talking about the mexican government picking and choosing who comes. He was referring to how they wouldn't want to send their hard workers, but the ones who actually are criminals. (I may be wrong on this, but I think I remember this speech. Feel free to prove me wrong.)

azurepudding wrote:

That the majority of mexican immigrants are criminals, killers, and rapists.  This is racist fear-mongering.  He was not stating a fact.  A fact would be "mexicans can be criminals" or "some mexicans are criminals," which he didn't say.  Implying most mexicans are criminals is not a fact, it's a misleading racist lie.

Another case where I'd like to see the actual speech in order to make a decision on this.

azurepudding wrote:

Skin and gender don't matter to me, I was pointing out he mainly saves insults regarding low intelligence for black women.  Everyone else is usually rude, a liar, fake, a loser, etc.  Black women have consistently been "stupid," "dumb," or "low IQ" to Trump.

Sounds pretty nit-picky if you ask me to point something like that out. That can easily be coincidence. Nobody keeps a log of what they say to each person, that's ridiculous.

azurepudding wrote:

It is really disturbing how so many people excuse his words being "oh it was 10 years ago" or "it was just locker room talk."  That excuse makes more sense for a young teen- we've all said stupid things as kids, but the guy was I think in his 50's when that tape was recorded.  I also hate how it keeps being minimized as "him saying lewd things," when it's not just that, but an admittance to sexual assault.  The words he uses are lousy, him cheating on his wife with **** actresses is also lousy and despicable, but admitting to sexual assault is an admittance to a serious crime.  I don't care if he said "****."  The video wouldn't have been any less disturbing if he said "crotch" instead.  He admitted to sexual assault, and that's what it is.

10 years ago is a valid excuse. It should have been dealt with then, and should be over by now. Someone's past is not a direct correlation to who they are in the present. People change.

If there's been nothing on Trump for sexual assault in the past 10 years, then obviously he learned his lesson. Let it go.

azurepudding wrote:

There is a serious brainwash going on.

Stop dismissing differing opinions as brainwash. Nobody is brainwashed. Don't put yourself on a high pedestal because you think your opinion is more valid than anyone else's. Fun fact: it's not. Everyone's opinion is worth the exact same thing; very little.

azurepudding wrote:

Maybe not with most, but there is brainwash occurring.  Have you seen the proud boys videos where they literally command you to murder those who oppose Trump?

I have not, but I agree they should be jailed if they are doing that. Again though, how does this have anything to do with Trump himself? Stop blaming him for the actions of others.

azurepudding wrote:

Any negative news about him he wants shut down.  He only wants news like Fox News to report positively on him.  He revoked Jim Acosta's credentials to shut him down for asking hard questions

He asked the guy nicely several times to sit down. He answered a couple questions and wanted to move on to somebody new. Acosta was being a selfish brat, not giving anyone else a chance to speak. Had he waited for others to have a chance like a polite person would, Trump probably would have called on him again.

azurepudding wrote:

- and get this, the White House put out a doctored video that made it appear that Acosta had chopped at the intern's arm.  They sped the film up and added blur filters.  They're not interested in free speech or the truth.  They only want their dear leader to be protected because he's the biggest snowflake of them all.

Proof

azurepudding wrote:

You can call CNN selective news.

Are you telling me I did call them that, or are you giving me permission to do so? Because I did not call them that.

For the record, I think FOX is biased as well.

azurepudding wrote:

However, they still report the truth

Yeah which is why I said fake news is a stupid name. It's biased news at best.

azurepudding wrote:

which Trump keeps bashing as "fake news" and "the enemy of the people."  It's IMPORTANT for us to know all the crap he's doing- heck, you don't even have to dig for it, he openly spews out hideous things all the time at his rallies.  Why is it CNN's fault for reporting what Trump said himself?

It's not there fault for reporting it. I'm perfectly fine with them reporting it. My issue comes from editing things so you only get the one line of him saying something bad and nothing before or after, then proceeding to have a discussion about it like it's the worst thing anybody could ever say. They make it seem as if Trump has only ever done terrible things, they never report any of the great things he's done like with the economy and such. They focus too highly on the negative.

azurepudding wrote:

And then he calls them fake news for it?  It's almost like he's calling himself fake??  How is it fake to report what he said?  If things are twisted and misconstrued- sure, but he never seems to explain why it's fake, he just calls it fake.  Why?  Because it's not actually fake, it's entirely true news that shows how terrible he can be, so the easiest thing is to simply dismiss it as "fake."

Honestly it doesn't show anything. Edited clips are not proof of how "terrible" someone can be. Otherwise why would they be edited? Exactly.

azurepudding wrote:

Coming into this argument with a "Trump is always right" mentality doesn't make my arguments poor.  A lot of your counters were simply dismissals or dodging what I was getting at.

He isn't always right, and your arguments are indeed poor. You provide no evidence and just spout out random lines that you've heard. Zoey is the only one who's linked a single video so far and it's incredibly edited and out-of-context. Hell, the guy even shuts down the entire argument in the same video by stating he doesn't condone violence. I am not trying to dismiss or dodge anything, but as with all cases, the burden of proof lies with the accuser. If you're going to accuse trump of all these things, provide some actual evidence instead of your silly "he said this!!" comments. It doesn't help for you to tell me what he said, I need to hear him say it to be able to form an opinion on it.

azurepudding wrote:

People were freaking out because of how terrible of a person he is, and being a wealthy guy himself, has little reason to think about the middle class.  He has taken advantage of countless loop holes to avoid paying taxes (meaning everyone else has to make up for his taxes).  Corporate donations are used to buy politicians to influence votes based on what's in the corporation's interests, and here we just elected the corrupter instead, eliminating the middle man so to speak.  He's also so thin-skinned and with enough nukes to blow the planet from the galaxy at least 20 times over, him being the most powerful man in the world is a very scary thing.

Yeah that's a lot of power for anybody. Trump, Obama, Bush, etc. All presidents have that power, it's no different with Trump.

Also he does think of the middle class, he's constantly donated money over the years to various angencies, including cancer research, childrens hopitials, rebuilding military cemeteries, etc. He's legitimately trying to help everybody with his money. The guy hasn't even taken a penny of his own presidential salary.

In the past 2 years, he's grown the economy to the best it's been in ages. Almost everyone can get a job nowadays and support their families. He's bringing back the simple things everyone in the middle/lower class needs to live a decent life.

azurepudding wrote:

He constantly attacks our allies and buddy buddies with authoritarians.

I'm sorry, I guess meeting with Putin and Kim Jong Un to try and establish world peace must be an awful, awful thing. What even is your argument? The guy is trying to make the world safer for everyone by befriending those we've had issues with in the past. How is that a problem at all??

azurepudding wrote:

The guy has several times over shown he is a bully, and has admitted to sexual assault on tape.  He's supposed to be a role model for all of America and the world.  Oof, what else?

Come on! say it with me! p-r-o-o-f!   P-R-O-O-F!!  proof!!! there you go!!!!

azurepudding wrote:

You must have low expectations.

I don't. I just have different opinions.

azurepudding wrote:

Anything positive of him hasn't surpassed Obama

Obama drove the economy into the ground, Obamacare was a disaster, honestly I can't think of anything positive the guy did, please enlighten me.

azurepudding wrote:

and then there's the concentrated metric **** ton of crap that comes along with it.  Any other job in the country, a percent of a percent of any of this would get you fired. If one were in the middle of an interview for a job and someone brought in a tape showing admittance to sexual assault, their **** would be gone in a second.  No consideration.  Instant rejection.  Highest power in the land?  No problem, right this way Mister President.

If there was legitimate proof of it, I agree, it sure would!



Good luck sir on your next post


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#35 2018-11-16 03:54:33

Onjit
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From: Bosnia
Joined: 2015-02-15
Posts: 7,413
Website

Re: US 2018 Mid-term election discussion

i was with m1 until i wasn't sure if he was joking anymore


I'm off to scout camp for a week, so I won't be on at all. Completely cut off from the outside world. It's gonna be great ('cept 4 teh fud ofc.) cuz dat fud b nazty. liek srsly nazty. I IS LIKE SO PUMPED I DUN GIVE A CRAP ABOUT GRAMMR!!!!one!!!eleven1. So. Bye. When I get back I'll know how to shape metal and carve wood. I already know how to make baskets, towers(like big ones), find my way with a map, run for my life, and how to get caught in a tornado bcuz srsly that Knsas weathr is liek totaly krazy. It's like raining for 10 min then it stops and u look outsid and then you cant c a single cloud liek anywer? Yeh, is liek dat. I'll be living in a canvas, semi-permanent tent and using tons of bug spray because those ticks are absolutely awful there. And then it gets so dang hot there its like omg I'm melting and then you look at your hand where your canteen was (bcuz if u dun have a canteen in ur hand u r srsly slow and might even die) and ur hand melted off. Well, I've spammed enough and described how I will be living enough for now. Bye!

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#36 2018-11-16 06:16:15

azurepudding
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Joined: 2016-11-18
Posts: 663

Re: US 2018 Mid-term election discussion

Oof, wants proof, but dismisses any proof given.  CNN covers a good deal about his rallies if you want to see the unedited tapes- but better luck with that on Fox.  How in the world can these calls for violence be taken any other way tho.

He's the president, he's a republican, he incites violence, and then you see the right behave accordingly.  So yes, the actions of others is partly his fault given he commands them to conduct violence.  This is called being a bad influence.  He's the leader, he leads them to commit violence, and violence happens.  It is very much his fault as well as those who actually did it.

Obama got us out of a recession.  but okay, act like it was nothing.  Another "obamacare was a disaster" baseless claim.  It had its faults but hey, it saved my family well over $300,000 in life-threatening needed surgeries.

I'm not going out of my way for another post that long as it's exhausting writing all these counters for you to simply dismiss because you feel like it.  What you're doing is giving the benefit of a doubt to the extreme- suggesting someone who clearly claims something racist "might not be racist as they might not believe it in their heart".  well, if they weren't, they wouldn't be saying it.  same with trump inciting violence, over and over.  go watch the unedited tapes if you wanna.  you're mistaking video highlights as out of context cherry picking.  it's not.  I have personally listened through some of his rallies and can safely tell you, these highlights aren't out of context.

Legit wondering if i'm being troll baited here, you're not even giving the consideration of how awful it is to respond to all these quote breaks.  paragraphs are fine, please.  It's right there on tape and still there's some way to somehow defend it.  10 years means nothing, you could use that as an excuse to get out of anything.  Oh it was a year ago, oh it was a week ago, oh it was any arbitrary amount of time ago.  Something happening in the past doesn't negate it.  Else there could never be a bad act ever as anything terrible that happens, has now happened in the past.  If you forgive things for simply happening in the past, then with your logic there can never be a bad act ever.  if I murder someone, oh it was 3 seconds ago, good to know I'm cleared of my crime.  The guy also hasn't shown he has learned since then- he admits to sexual assault on tape, then women come out accusing him of doing so now that they have something to help back them up, and fanbase just all assumes they're all liars, no interest in what might have actually happened.

ugh, look, if you're legit serious here, I don't know what else I can do man.  There's others using the "out of context" excuse for stuff like https://youtu.be/KRUXiqZ7jQA?t=77 even, watch it, it's pretty unsettling.  other videos by this guy feature him literally spreading his cheeks, farting onto the mic, uncensored.  he brings his goons to antifascist protests to stir up and instigate trouble and antifascist get the blame for it sometimes anyway.  the guy literally brings a sword and brandishes it also.  There has been a rise of white supremacy under trump, but no, let's not blame him, no, he clearly doesn't incite violence and doesn't call them very fine people and doesn't identify as a nationalist.  let's just play pretend so trump looks innocent, forget about reality.

edit: mocking a sexual assault victim, um, that counts as bullying.  but let's pretend that never happened either, because mocking someone over sexual assault doesn't mean they truly believe it in their heart!!

Last edited by azurepudding (2018-11-16 06:17:53)

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#37 2018-11-16 06:32:28

Kkay
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From: Canda eh
Joined: 2015-08-20
Posts: 300

Re: US 2018 Mid-term election discussion

I'm Canadian and honestly couldn't care any less but the only thing I don't like and or disagree with about trump is the Paris agreement. Anything else with the dude honestly isn't my problem I don't care, but the Paris agreement is and I know that it comes down to the money and the United states paying more then other countries. But that's just logic, if your country is causing more pollutions with more factories and more pollute just in general, of course your going to be paying more to fix it. If Algeria has 17 (just a random example number) factories working all day and night spitting out smog into the air and your country has 100. Of course you'll be paying more to get rid of it and fix it. Trump doesn't even believe climate change exists period he's said it before. Is the economy, and the united states has one of the biggest in the world, really more important then the earths climate and future? The US spends more money on military then the next 10 combined and they're all allies. Its just stupid from an ecological standpoint. The USA is second next to china in the worlds Carbon Dioxide emissions. like 195 parties signed the damn thing and agreed to it but the United States decided nahhhhh not doing that. The second worst in the world for it.

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#38 2018-11-16 07:03:04

azurepudding
Member
Joined: 2016-11-18
Posts: 663

Re: US 2018 Mid-term election discussion

Kkay wrote:

I'm Canadian and honestly couldn't care any less but the only thing I don't like and or disagree with about trump is the Paris agreement. Anything else with the dude honestly isn't my problem I don't care, but the Paris agreement is and I know that it comes down to the money and the United states paying more then other countries. But that's just logic, if your country is causing more pollutions with more factories and more pollute just in general, of course your going to be paying more to fix it. If Algeria has 17 (just a random example number) factories working all day and night spitting out smog into the air and your country has 100. Of course you'll be paying more to get rid of it and fix it. Trump doesn't even believe climate change exists period he's said it before. Is the economy, and the united states has one of the biggest in the world, really more important then the earths climate and future? The US spends more money on military then the next 10 combined and they're all allies. Its just stupid from an ecological standpoint. The USA is second next to china in the worlds Carbon Dioxide emissions. like 195 parties signed the damn thing and agreed to it but the United States decided nahhhhh not doing that. The second worst in the world for it.

Yeah that's another thing, the guy doesn't believe in science and can't put 2 and 2 together.  it's also roughly the 20 next countries now actually too.  And yet, the military is somehow depleted, while we spend billions and billions more on waste like tanks sitting in the middle of the country doing absolutely nothing.  those cost millions of dollars each.  Let's leave it on the guy who went bankrupt 5 or so times who needed daddy to come save him.

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#39 2018-11-16 08:04:19

Master1
Campaign Team
From: Crait
Joined: 2015-02-15
Posts: 4,396

Re: US 2018 Mid-term election discussion

azurepudding wrote:

Oof, wants proof, but dismisses any proof given.

Except literally nothing you've posted has contained any proof. I'm sorry to say it buddy, but your recollection of what you've seen/heard will not sway me. I've said it over and over, I'm not going to believe anything you say unless you show me exactly where it happened. Concrete proof in the form of unedited, full length videos.

azurepudding wrote:

CNN covers a good deal about his rallies if you want to see the unedited tapes- but better luck with that on Fox.  How in the world can these calls for violence be taken any other way tho.

Don't act like your left leaning news station is better than any other, both are equally biased and bad.

azurepudding wrote:

He's the president, he's a republican, he incites violence, and then you see the right behave accordingly.  So yes, the actions of others is partly his fault given he commands them to conduct violence.  This is called being a bad influence.  He's the leader, he leads them to commit violence, and violence happens.  It is very much his fault as well as those who actually did it.

It's funny how this whole debate started due to someone posting an NPC meme, and here you are sitting there "incites violence" "incites violence" "oh look he's inciting violence guys" Yet when I ask for proof, the most I get is a video where trump himself says "I don't condone violence" - If you have indeed been called an NPC before like you said you were, I can certainly understand why.

VIDEOS. I would especially like to see the part where he's commanding people to use violence.

azurepudding wrote:

Obama got us out of a recession.  but okay, act like it was nothing.  Another "obamacare was a disaster" baseless claim.  It had its faults but hey, it saved my family well over $300,000 in life-threatening needed surgeries.

Obama didn't get us out of a recession, Trump did that.

Obamacare raised taxes, caused millions to lose their own health care plans, created over a trillion in national debt, and more! What a mess.

azurepudding wrote:

I'm not going out of my way for another post that long as it's exhausting writing all these counters for you to simply dismiss because you feel like it.

I haven't been dismissing things because I feel like it. I've given reasons for anything I disagree with, and asked for more on things I'm unsure of.

azurepudding wrote:

What you're doing is giving the benefit of a doubt to the extreme- suggesting someone who clearly claims something racist "might not be racist as they might not believe it in their heart".  well, if they weren't, they wouldn't be saying it

I can think of several situations where someone could say something you'd deem "racist" where it wouldn't show that the person genuinely is racist. Jokes, maybe a mental condition where someone can't think straight, alcohol and/or drugs effecting your mind, slipping up and saying something by mistake, etc.

Bottom line is, you can't go based off of speech to be able to call out someone as a racist. That is a serious claim to make. They need to have taken a serious action targeted towards a specific race.


azurepudding wrote:

same with trump inciting violence, over and over.  go watch the unedited tapes if you wanna.  you're mistaking video highlights as out of context cherry picking.  it's not.  I have personally listened through some of his rallies and can safely tell you, these highlights aren't out of context.

lol violence! guys it's violence!

azurepudding wrote:

Legit wondering if i'm being troll baited here, you're not even giving the consideration of how awful it is to respond to all these quote breaks.  paragraphs are fine, please.

Like I said, it's easier for me to respond this way.

azurepudding wrote:

It's right there on tape and still there's some way to somehow defend it.  10 years means nothing, you could use that as an excuse to get out of anything. Oh it was a year ago, oh it was a week ago, oh it was any arbitrary amount of time ago.  Something happening in the past doesn't negate it.  Else there could never be a bad act ever as anything terrible that happens, has now happened in the past.  If you forgive things for simply happening in the past, then with your logic there can never be a bad act ever.  if I murder someone, oh it was 3 seconds ago, good to know I'm cleared of my crime.  The guy also hasn't shown he has learned since then- he admits to sexual assault on tape, then women come out accusing him of doing so now that they have something to help back them up, and fanbase just all assumes they're all liars, no interest in what might have actually happened.

You know there are these things in laws called "Statutes of Limitations" that determine lengths of time for which a crime can still be charged after committing it. They very state to state, but in general most tend to fall somewhere between 1-5 years, with some going up to 10 years for more serious crimes. I think this is very important to take notice of in discussions like these. The act is bad, yes, but there comes a point in time where it no longer becomes a meaningful factor in determining someones character. The incident happened, either he was charged or wasn't, he apologized, it's been more than long enough according to most laws, it's over. Let the man get on with his life.

azurepudding wrote:

ugh, look, if you're legit serious here, I don't know what else I can do man.  There's others using the "out of context" excuse for stuff like https://youtu.be/KRUXiqZ7jQA?t=77 even, watch it, it's pretty unsettling.  other videos by this guy feature him literally spreading his cheeks, farting onto the mic, uncensored.  he brings his goons to antifascist protests to stir up and instigate trouble and antifascist get the blame for it sometimes anyway.  the guy literally brings a sword and brandishes it also.  There has been a rise of white supremacy under trump, but no, let's not blame him, no, he clearly doesn't incite violence and doesn't call them very fine people and doesn't identify as a nationalist.  let's just play pretend so trump looks innocent, forget about reality.

Thanks for giving me a video that doesn't feature trump even once. I thought this discussion was about him? or did we randomly change subjects.

azurepudding wrote:

edit: mocking a sexual assault victim, um, that counts as bullying.  but let's pretend that never happened either, because mocking someone over sexual assault doesn't mean they truly believe it in their heart!!

who?

Last edited by Master1 (2018-11-16 08:05:48)


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#40 2018-11-16 08:26:40

azurepudding
Member
Joined: 2016-11-18
Posts: 663

Re: US 2018 Mid-term election discussion

Master1 wrote:

a purposely annoying framed response even after being asked to not do so

ooooof, more dismissals, falsehoods, and missings of points.. if you cannot bother to do your own research, i will not do it for you.  or well, i did, but it was still dismissed so i won't bother anymore.  You not knowing who I was talking about with being mocked of her sexual assault clearly shows how much you don't know as it's a recent thing.  You have become a Trump NPC and nothing will sway you.  Facts, videos, nothing.  These are highlights, not taken out of context, for the umpteenth time.  Watch a Trump rally and you'll likely see. https://wiki.everybodyedits.com/images/5/52/052_sigh

Last edited by azurepudding (2018-11-16 08:43:14)

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#41 2018-11-16 11:04:34

NorwegianboyEE
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From: Norway
Joined: 2015-03-16
Posts: 890

Re: US 2018 Mid-term election discussion

Master1, since you bring up "the burden of proof lies with the accuser" as an argument... can you explain to us in detail using facts and sources why your conclusions lead you to believe that Obamacare had an negative effect rather than an positive one? Because i have a hard time grasping this, in my country we have socialized healthcare as well as an welfare state which is a big success and our economy is still going strong, proving this kind of system is sustainable. While in the US i hear all kinds of stories about sky-high medical expenses as well as people avoiding the doctor because of the bill. How on earth can this be seen as a good thing? And even if you agree with this being a problem, why disagree with Obamacare when the Republicans are not going to fix it? Even when i was in Japan i had to pay mandatory but affordable national health insurance to the Japanese state, which i actually ended up using. So they cut 70% from my medical bill...

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#42 2018-11-16 11:07:19

Master1
Campaign Team
From: Crait
Joined: 2015-02-15
Posts: 4,396

Re: US 2018 Mid-term election discussion

azurepudding wrote:
Master1 wrote:

a purposely annoying framed response even after being asked to not do so

ooooof, more dismissals, falsehoods, and missings of points.. if you cannot bother to do your own research, i will not do it for you.  or well, i did, but it was still dismissed so i won't bother anymore.  You not knowing who I was talking about with being mocked of her sexual assault clearly shows how much you don't know as it's a recent thing.  You have become a Trump NPC and nothing will sway you.  Facts, videos, nothing.  These are highlights, not taken out of context, for the umpteenth time.  Watch a Trump rally and you'll likely see. https://wiki.everybodyedits.com/images/5/52/052_sigh

I've seen trump rallies, no such thing exists. I have done my own research, I have not seen what you are talking about. As I said before, when it comes to calling someone out on something, you have the burden of proof. You did absolutely nothing to try and prove that your claims are legitimate. I asked for videos several times, got nothing. All you've done so far is rant about things. I have nothing more to go off of than your word. Your word is not proof of anything. If you can't give the proof, don't make the claim.

As for the sexual assault thing, the only thing that rings a bell is the Kavanaugh hearing. Which guess what! It was never proved to have taken place. I'd be right by her side if she had an ounce of proof. All we know is that there was a party and both of them were there. All of her witnesses denied that anything happened. She doesn't have anything, so I cannot believe her.

I disagree with your statement that nothing will sway me, however, your attempts to do so have been laughable at best. All I've gotten from you as to why Trump is a racist who incites violence, is a clip of someone COMPLETELY DIFFERENT inciting violence. Tell me how that one works. You say facts and videos won't sway me, yet you've done nothing to back up your facts, or given any videos (other than the one mentioned above that has nothing to do with Trump.)

Nice try my friend, better luck next time!

*edit*

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

Master1, since you bring up "the burden of proof lies with the accuser" as an argument... can you explain to us in detail using facts and sources why your conclusions lead you to believe that Obamacare had an negative effect rather than an positive one? -[stuff]-

Saying obamacare had a negative effect is wildly different from accusing someone of something, but sure I'll play your game. I'll compile something together when I get a chance.

Last edited by Master1 (2018-11-16 11:18:39)


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#43 2018-11-16 11:36:10

azurepudding
Member
Joined: 2016-11-18
Posts: 663

Re: US 2018 Mid-term election discussion

Master1 wrote:
azurepudding wrote:
Master1 wrote:

a purposely annoying framed response even after being asked to not do so

ooooof, more dismissals, falsehoods, and missings of points.. if you cannot bother to do your own research, i will not do it for you.  or well, i did, but it was still dismissed so i won't bother anymore.  You not knowing who I was talking about with being mocked of her sexual assault clearly shows how much you don't know as it's a recent thing.  You have become a Trump NPC and nothing will sway you.  Facts, videos, nothing.  These are highlights, not taken out of context, for the umpteenth time.  Watch a Trump rally and you'll likely see. https://wiki.everybodyedits.com/images/5/52/052_sigh

I've seen trump rallies, no such thing exists. I have done my own research, I have not seen what you are talking about. As I said before, when it comes to calling someone out on something, you have the burden of proof. You did absolutely nothing to try and prove that your claims are legitimate. I asked for videos several times, got nothing. All you've done so far is rant about things. I have nothing more to go off of than your word. Your word is not proof of anything. If you can't give the proof, don't make the claim.

As for the sexual assault thing, the only thing that rings a bell is the Kavanaugh hearing. Which guess what! It was never proved to have taken place. I'd be right by her side if she had an ounce of proof. All we know is that there was a party and both of them were there. All of her witnesses denied that anything happened. She doesn't have anything, so I cannot believe her.

I disagree with your statement that nothing will sway me, however, your attempts to do so have been laughable at best. All I've gotten from you as to why Trump is a racist who incites violence, is a clip of someone COMPLETELY DIFFERENT inciting violence. Tell me how that one works. You say facts and videos won't sway me, yet you've done nothing to back up your facts, or given any videos (other than the one mentioned above that has nothing to do with Trump.)

Nice try my friend, better luck next time!

Then why do you dismiss these clips as "out of context" when they are not? they're highlights of his rallies.  You keep claiming out of context but have yet to answer how this could be taken as any other context- he tells his fans to commit violence, there's no joking whatsoever.  He later claims he doesn't do this to save face, but he does it over and over.  Zoey already gave the burden of proof, you just don't feel like accepting it.  It is not out of context in the slightest, and to suggest someone doesn't truly mean what they're saying is a laughable defense.  If we're going to take that leap of logic, then it's impossible to ever know what anyone is saying.  But guess what, people tend to say what they think and believe, and unless it's clear it's a joke or sarcasm, then it's safe to take someone by their word.  If that's what they think, that's what they think.

To expect me to sit through hours of footage to find the exact clips where he incites violence just so you can get the 5 minutes before and after to make certain of context is absolutely unfair.  There is no other way these commands of violence can be taken besides what they are.

As for Kavenaugh, the guy lied several times under oath about terms for sexual acts- which doesn't make him guilty of course, but it's a lie, and why would an innocent man need to lie?  Why was the FBI investigation rushed, why were they not permitted to ask key questions, not permitted to ask key witnesses?  If the guy is innocent, they should have allowed a proper investigation to clear his name.  That would have removed any doubt, any suspicion.  But no, we get this neutered, half-assed investigation that was rushed only to get another Republican in SCOTUS before the midterms.  They had no interest in getting the right guy into SCOTUS, they just wanted a republican at any cost.  If he was innocent, there should have been nothing to worry about, but they rushed it.  Something is awfully fishy here.  And then, without knowing for certain if he did it or not, Trump decides it's a good idea to mock her, making his crowd roar with laughter.  Now take a minute.. what if he actually did do it?  We don't know, but what if he did?  How do you think this makes survivors of sexual assault feel now?  There was no justice here.  This is a serious accusation, and a serious investigation is needed.

Trump also went on about how we should be innocent until proven guilty- and I can agree with that, however the strange thing here is he didn't believe this way back during the central park five.  He was viciously for the death penalty then.  Turns out they were innocent.  Back then he didn't believe in innocent until guilty, but the opposite.  Why?

You asked for proof and it was provided.  Instances of Trump inciting violence, followed by instances of violence performed by trump supporters, or those furthering his commands for violence.  You then dismiss the fact he incited violence and keep acting like I'm for some reason just linking these other people for no reason, that "they're not Trump."  I know they're not Trump, but there has been an increase of hate crimes from the right under Trump, who keeps inciting violence.  How come you can't see this?

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#44 2018-11-16 11:44:28

Koto
Member
Joined: 2015-02-18
Posts: 3,267

Re: US 2018 Mid-term election discussion

Oh my god, Master1 is actually a Trump supporter, lmao.  He waa talking about bodyslammong a reporters ffs.  Trump is a terrible president, and he doesn't know anything about how the government works.  He couldn't even pass a basic High School level governmwnt class.

Last edited by Koto (2018-11-16 11:44:45)


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#45 2018-11-16 11:48:19

azurepudding
Member
Joined: 2016-11-18
Posts: 663

Re: US 2018 Mid-term election discussion

Koto wrote:

Oh my god, Master1 is actually a Trump supporter, lmao.  He waa talking about bodyslammong a reporters ffs.  Trump is a terrible president, and he doesn't know anything about how the government works.  He couldn't even pass a basic High School level governmwnt class.

Yeah see, there's just so many things that it's easy to forget.  Yeah, the guy who bodyslammed a reporter for asking a question he didn't wanna answer, and then Trump gloats how that's his kind of guy.  Disgusting.

Still not inciting violence, right m1?  This isn't normalizing it, not encouraging it?

Last edited by azurepudding (2018-11-16 11:48:35)

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#46 2018-11-16 11:56:19

Koto
Member
Joined: 2015-02-18
Posts: 3,267

Re: US 2018 Mid-term election discussion

Azurepudding, have you seen the Documentary, "The Brainwashing of my dad"?  I havent seen it yet, but its on my short list of things to watch, you might find it interesting.

Edit 1: Master1, congrats, I think this is the longest I've seen a Trump supporter go without mentioning the Clinton's, or Obama.

However, the Kavanaugh hearing... That wasn't a criminal trial, that was a job interview.  I watched it live, and honestly, with the attitude he was having during it, he shouldn't have gotten the job.  I've seen people lose a potential job at McDonald's for less.

Last edited by Koto (2018-11-16 12:06:24)


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#47 2018-11-16 18:23:54

XxAtillaxX
Member
From: Canada
Joined: 2015-11-28
Posts: 3,818

Re: US 2018 Mid-term election discussion

I'll add that this was a large victory for progressives on ballot initiatives - which are a result of direct democracy.

If you go issue by issue, the vast majority of Americans agree on the same core principles our progressive candidates embrace and represent, unlike the establishment corporate politicians currently in office. I'm looking forward to a progressive-left future.
I hope we continue in the direction of favouring policy substance over party. I couldn't begin to express how tiresome the scare tactics of the establishment billionaires have become, and I think we all are tired of it at this point.
I don't think we should continue to fall for the red scare, we shouldn't equate social democracy to communism.

If you take health care for example, which is by far the largest issue that the progressive-left is campaigning on, approximately 67% of Americans say they want one form or another of socialized health care, be it Medicare For All, a public option or single payer system.

When they talk about health care, they aren't talking about Venezuela like many of the pundits will gleefully bring up.
We are talking about the many countries who have adopted socialized health care systems, where unlike the US, nobody dies because they can't afford to see a doctor or afford prescription drugs.
We are talking about the countries that are paying far less than the the US for better results, while covering everyone. We are talking about the countries that have the highest self-reported happiness indexes.
We are talking about the Nordic countries, as well as Canada and the UK, and many of the smaller nations.

In these countries you have free health care and education, high wages, a strong middle class and 1/12 paid vacation time by law.
I'm looking forward to the future where the vast majority of Americans have their voices heard and overturn the system wherein money in politics controls elections in favour of the incredibly wealthy elites.


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#48 2018-11-16 18:32:50

EEJoranasc
Member
From: Petoria
Joined: 2016-03-20
Posts: 1,145

Re: US 2018 Mid-term election discussion

Koto wrote:

Oh my god, Master1 is actually a Trump supporter, lmao.  He waa talking about bodyslammong a reporters ffs.  Trump is a terrible president, and he doesn't know anything about how the government works.  He couldn't even pass a basic High School level governmwnt class.

atleast donald trump is better than hillary clinton

if ben shapiro is on trump side, then im on trump's side

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#49 2018-11-16 19:09:36

Zoey2070
Moderation Team
From: Shakuras
Joined: 2015-02-15
Posts: 5,219

Re: US 2018 Mid-term election discussion

EEJoranasc wrote:
Koto wrote:

Oh my god, Master1 is actually a Trump supporter, lmao.  He waa talking about bodyslammong a reporters ffs.  Trump is a terrible president, and he doesn't know anything about how the government works.  He couldn't even pass a basic High School level governmwnt class.

atleast donald trump is better than hillary clinton

if ben shapiro is on trump side, then im on trump's side

YIKES!


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#50 2018-11-16 19:52:30

Yonanoke
Formerly Glaauber
From: Brazil, DF, Gama
Joined: 2015-07-07
Posts: 400

Re: US 2018 Mid-term election discussion

ad hominem finally started here mhmm

also i got more points >

Contains swearing

one day i complete it.

Last edited by BuzzerBee (2018-11-18 01:23:38)

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