To keep old worlds playable after EE Universe, make an offline client.

N1KF · 2018-05-27 22:38:35

Xenoetix wrote:

What about my worlds?
If certain aspects of the current version need to be transferred to the reboot, this is likely to happen during the overlap period, although currently, we can't promise anything.
If we end up deciding not to transfer anything, we've discussed the possibility that someone like capasha may well produce a program (or just update EEditor), so that world saves from the current version of the game could be transferred (at least in part, or as close as possible) to the new version of the game.
As a player of the game for over 7 years, I know the value of the work and time players have put into the game, and I would like to make the transition a smooth one, but at the same time, there may be a lot of features which simply don't transition. As an example (and a tease) of this, the current plan is to no longer include different world sizes, and just be able to set the world size at the moment of creating a new world (and possibly even after that, but not entirely sure yet). There will most likely be a range for these (as we don't want infinite-size worlds), but this should give people a lot more flexibility in how they wish to use their world space.

With the rEEboot coming, we will need a way to play old worlds. There are hundreds, if not thousands of worlds made over the years worth preserving. I'll assume the most dramatic case that worlds will not be transferred.

Converting server data to local data

Whatever you do, EE Staff, don't make downloading and playing old worlds hard to do. Please don't leave it up to whatever bot users choose to save, because that's a very small portion of players. Make it VERY clear to players that worlds will be deleted if they will be deleted. If you make the system right, it would be possible for some casual player to save hundreds of worlds. There is so much here to save, and I want that to be as easy as possible.

Consider having an in-game system where you can paste a bunch of links or world IDs, then it loads them then converts them into downloadable files. Judging by how worlds appear in profiles, it takes just a few seconds to load world data, so it should be possible to convert a hundred worlds in a few minutes.

Owned items would be saved in local files. Users logging into the current server will automatically have their account data converted to cookies for the offline client. Sure, people could hack for things they don't have, but there's nothing you can do to stop that. (You could also make all the items free, of course.)

Using the local data

Have an offline client that doesn't need an active internet connection. You don't even need to host it yourself if you're concerned about bandwidth, since it would also be hosted on Kongregate, ArmorGames, Newgrounds, and other websites.

Accounts would not exist. All features that rely on the server saving data for offline players (like friend lists, messages and news) would be removed since there is no reliable server to handle them. With all the removed features, the lobby and single-player game interface could be updated. Seasonal and holiday events would depend on the computer's clock.

Players can load worlds saved on their computer (or just text codes to copy and paste in an in-game loader) to play them. Some very important worlds (think campaigns, featured worlds, and anything with over 100,000 plays) would come with the client itself so the player doesn't have to manually download any worlds if they just want to play the game.

Player-hosted servers?

Perhaps players could host servers. I'm not sure if would be a good idea, but maybe servers could even host multiple worlds or switch between worlds. So if a group of players want to go between worlds without creating a new server, they could do that. This would need some more development time, though. What do you think?

Zumza, Anch, Minimania

SirJosh3917 · 2018-05-27 22:53:09

N1KF wrote:

Converting server data to local data

You can always download your worlds yourself using World Service hosted on EEJesse's VPS, or alternatively use the World.CLI interface for downloading your data yourself.
Then, you could ( possibly ) use some sort of bot to upload that same World.CLI data to the new EE.

IMO, if you care about your worlds enough, download them all right now and then upload them to the new EE later.

N1KF wrote:

Player-hosted servers?

I'm not sure how well this would settle with the staff at all, I think that the EE staff should just publicly source the EE game code once the game dies so clones of EE can come out - or, alternatively, the EE staff could host EE on a free PlayerIO server.

EDIT: fixed the world.cli link

N1KF

N1KF · 2018-05-27 22:59:51

ninjasupeatsninja wrote:

N1KF wrote:
Converting server data to local data
You can always download your worlds yourself using World Service hosted on EEJesse's VPS, or alternatively use the World.CLI interface for downloading your data yourself.

EEJesse's is giving me the error "The archive requested appears to be corrupt. (e:3) Not a GZip file: 85,110,97" for any user I look up, while Atilla's is giving me a 404 error.

edit: I found this, but it looks like a bunch of programming-related files. Leaving world data up to bot users is a bad idea unless they can archive every single world.

SirJosh3917 · 2018-05-27 23:06:57

N1KF wrote:

ninjasupeatsninja wrote:
N1KF wrote:
Converting server data to local data
You can always download your worlds yourself using World Service hosted on EEJesse's VPS, or alternatively use the World.CLI interface for downloading your data yourself.
EEJesse's is giving me the error "The archive requested appears to be corrupt. (e:3) Not a GZip file: 85,110,97" for any user I look up, while Atilla's is giving me a 404 error.

./shrug

use the World.CLI interface then, even though it might be confusing

EDIT: direct download link
read the FAQ for how to use it

when you extract the zip, SHIFT + RIGHT CLICK on the folder it's extracted to and click this

then just follow the FAQ instructions, e.g.

then once that's done, you should have a world.json file which has your world information.

When the rEEboot comes, there should hopefully be a bot around to read these world files and upload them back, or something of a similar sort. Can't predict the future though, so /shrug

N1KF · 2018-05-27 23:44:17

That doesn't solve the problem. Only users who use programmes like these will be able to save old worlds. There are many good worlds that could be forgotten and lost forever if they are not transferred to UnitEE, and we need to prevent that as much as possible.

If the Staff leave it up to us to save the worlds, then a by-user saver won't be enough. We need an automated system to find good worlds and save them, including those none of us know about. This could be based off the number of certain block types, number of plays, the name/description of the world, and many other factors. It's also possible that the system could learn as users add good worlds to the programme, and give them different qualities (good minimap art, good gameplay, unique gameplay, etc.).

Also, clumsily converting whatever blocks possible into the rEEboot and leaving them like that, or keeping the old physics despite major physics updates won't satisfy me either. Good worlds shouldn't be permanently butchered or unplayable. And if the rEEboot keeps all the blocks and physics we have now, then I'll have another topic to make...

I don't want to see thousands of good worlds go down the drain just because the Staff failed to help us. What Xenoetix wrote is very worrying to me. Please don't leave a few users responsible for the fate of thousands and thousands of levels.

Norwee

LukeM · 2018-05-28 00:08:26

N1KF wrote:

Player-hosted servers?
Perhaps players could host servers. I'm not sure if would be a good idea, but maybe servers could even host multiple worlds or switch between worlds. So if a group of players want to go between worlds without creating a new server, they could do that. This would need some more development time, though. What do you think?

I was thinking about this a while ago, and it might be possible to make a peer to peer client for EE, maybe with a matchmaking server just to start up the worlds. This would mean that you could still share worlds with other players and save your own worlds on your computer, so most of the features of EE would be intact.

Edit:
I'm also wondering how many worlds there are... Would it be feasable to download them all? Is there even a way to find them all?

N1KF

Norwee · 2018-05-28 00:53:37

Downloading an world into some kind of computer file sounds like the best solution to me. Then you could keep all your EE worlds in a folder and upload it to the new EE later. You could also download other peoples worlds you feel are worth saving.

N1KF, Emily, Minimania

hummerz5 · 2018-05-28 01:20:20

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

Downloading an world into some kind of computer file sounds like the best solution to me. Then you could keep all your EE worlds in a folder and upload it to the new EE later. You could also download other peoples worlds you feel are worth saving.

someone should reach out to Atilla. IIRC he had this giant archive of worlds. Or something stored somewhere. I'm not sure how trivial it is to get an archive of all the worlds as N1KF might suggest. But I suppose if Wikipedia can offer every article in one giant archive, surely we can do something similar for those archival enthusiasts

LukeM, Mait

N1KF · 2018-05-29 06:55:10

Two admins posted somewhere ever since I made this topic, including Xenoetix himself. Please don't leave us hanging... bump.

John · 2018-05-29 18:01:41

Anyone can just loop through each object in the database, convert it to json and use World.cs and remap the blocks, then upload to new EE.

If nobody else does it then I am willing to do it, but I am sure Ninja or Doh or Atilla are doing it / have done it already.

EDIT:

N1KF wrote:

Xenoetix

*Xenonetix

LukeM · 2018-05-29 18:28:59

John wrote:

Anyone can just loop through each object in the database

Hows that done? I've briefly looked through the documentation but can't see any way to index the worlds...

John · 2018-05-29 18:34:38

LukeM wrote:

Hows that done? I've briefly looked through the documentation but can't see any way to index the worlds...

You can use the LoadRange method. (too lazy to open VS so not sure if syntax is correct)

PlayerIO.BigDB.LoadRange("Worlds", index, startindex, null, null, 1000 (max limit), callback

You'll have to call it many times to get every object in existance, and the index must me supplied. I recommend using "owner" or "name", which gets objects with an owner or world title. You should adjust the startindex (add 1k each time) after each call, the max limit is 1000. Once you get less than 1k entries, that means you hit the end and should stop making calls.

(I've never actually done this but that's how I would do it.)

LukeM

XxAtillaxX · 2018-05-29 21:27:13

I have around a million and a half worlds archived, totalling over 25 gigabytes.

I don't have any way to update pieces of it, and it's too much to iterate through and store into a torrent. It's a huge volume of metadata; tons of files and folders.

If I were able to mass-distribute a dynamic torrent of it like I was able to with BT Sync in the past before the company got acquired, that'd be a good option.

In the current state, I will just wait until if the game does get shut down and then release the entire archive publicly.

I've restarted the WorldService process, which I occasionally have to do every few weeks, thanks to Player.IO timing out my API requests and Mono not handling exceptions properly.

It should fix any of the error messages you got. I would suggest using the built-in World Service functionality in EEditor rather than the website for specific worlds.

You can download the entire world archive for any given user by using the website, or alternatively you can call the API directly. (e.g. http://vps.eejesse.net:8080/archive/username/phinarose)

▼Example

Raphe9000, N1KF, SirJosh3917, Minimania

LukeM · 2018-05-29 21:41:06

XxAtillaxX wrote:

I have around a million and a half worlds archived, totalling over 25 gigabytes.

Just wondering, is this just the latest version of the worlds or all versions combined?

I'm trying to gauge whether it would be feasible to go through and back up every single world / profile personally (possibly on an external hard drive or something, or maybe just on my hard drive if its small enough)

XxAtillaxX · 2018-05-29 21:46:20

LukeM wrote:

Just wondering, is this just the latest version of the worlds or all versions combined?

It's for all versioned combined. For the latest versions of worlds, that's around 16 GB or so.

LukeM · 2018-05-29 21:56:09

XxAtillaxX wrote:

LukeM wrote:
Just wondering, is this just the latest version of the worlds or all versions combined?
It's for all versioned combined. For the latest versions of worlds, that's around 16 GB or so.

Do you think this would be the majority of the worlds in EE or do you only have worlds after a certain date? If it was < 20GB I could probably even do it on my website which runs off an SD card XD, especially if I use a more compressed format (e.g. here)

peace · 2018-05-30 12:54:50

hey lukem isn ti tpossible to svae whoel worlds into your pluging bot and then when the reeboot is open just load them one by one?

EDIT: i think that is what !selection save and !selection load can do... oops and then by just select the whole world as a selection... my bad

LukeM · 2018-05-30 13:07:52

peace wrote:

hey lukem isn ti tpossible to svae whoel worlds into your pluging bot and then when the reeboot is open just load them one by one?
EDIT: i think that is what !selection save and !selection load can do... oops and then by just select the whole world as a selection... my bad

Yes, but currently theres no way to export the saves, they are stored in your browser's localstorage (similar to cookies)

I'll probably create a way to export selections in the next update, as well as probably another tool that lets you download worlds more quickly.

N1KF · 2018-06-21 16:10:28

Bump.

I'm looking for confirmation that the Staff just won't leave the worlds up to some obscure fan client a few people know about. I want hundreds, if not thousands of people to be able to experience the game how it is now, even if the game changes in the future. Imagine having the offline client on Kongregate, Newgrounds, and other websites. (If the rebooted game goes by a new name, it could also serve as the "final update" to the Everybody Edits client.) Nothing I got so far has satisfied what I'm looking for.

The forums have hundreds, if not thousands of links directly to levels on the website. These links should not be broken, and since you can't host the worlds yourself you should consider having those links load or redirect to the same world on a fan world downloader.

A few weeks ago, I messaged ByeArray about this. He stated nothing has been decided yet, so everything he told me was kind of vague. Even if the Staff haven't made a decision yet, it still worries me that Xenoetix even brought up a fan-made backup client as an option.

This is a very big deal! The fate of thousands of worlds depends on how this is handled, and I want to make sure it's handled well. This content alone is probably worth the time and energy of a hundred other online Shockwave Flash games. History shows the Staff don't always make careful decisions, and sometimes there end up harsher on the players than intended. I want me, and the rest of the community to be safe knowing our worlds won't get buried. And if they do, I'd like to know ahead of time so I (and maybe others) can plan for it.

Atikyne, Minimania

Tomahawk · 2018-06-21 17:18:22

*Brand-new EE built from the ground up with unique features and a fresh playerbase*

NIKF: *goes on old-EE to replay old levels*

...

N1KF

peace · 2018-06-21 20:05:31

maby there should be a bot that is writen in java script by openign new tab you let it loging in your acount (simulair to lukems plugin) it saves all blcok sin the world and you can connect the bot then to the reeboot and paste the blcoks in the worlds you can just save all your worlds in that bot too fi you dont have the worlds bought yet

Vitalijus · 2018-06-21 20:16:17

In my opinion everything should start from 2012 (before MrShoe) era so we don't have **** tons of useless smileys and blocks that no one uses, but that would mean that we wouldn't have our worlds in the rebooted version because most of the blocks would be gone. And I'm 100% okay with that since I think we should start everything from zero.

peace · 2018-06-21 21:26:38

Vitalijus wrote:

In my opinion everything should start from 2012 (before MrShoe) era so we don't have **** tons of useless smileys and blocks that no one uses, but that would mean that we wouldn't have our worlds in the rebooted version because most of the blocks would be gone. And I'm 100% okay with that since I think we should start everything from zero.

no there aere poeple who wasted almost their whole lif ein these worlds

Xenonetix · 2018-06-21 23:18:48

Hi Everybody,

This is an understandably delicate subject, and none of us know quite yet how we're going to fully handle the transition, but there will be an overlap period for the two versions of the game for exactly the reasons you've outlined, to make sure people have time to make the necessary transfers if they wish to transfer worlds.

That being said, we wouldn't want to 'clog up' the reboot with millions of levels that are either empty, or no one will ever play again, including the home worlds. At the time of typing, there are 2411966 registered users (across all sites), which means there are a minimum of 2411966 worlds called "My Home World". Whether people like it or not, we don't plan on 'transferring' millions upon millions of worlds.

I recently went through the top 150 most played worlds in Everybody Edits. Here's the top of one of the many spreadsheets I'm working on to figure out exactly what should be transferred to the reboot:

I've been through every single block in the game (all 984 of them at the time of writing), and have been working out what needs to happen with them:

There are hundreds upon hundreds of decisions that need to be made when it comes to the reboot, and I'd like to reinforce the reminder that I've played Everybody Edits myself for almost 8 years. I know that there are a number of my own levels which I'll have to sacrifice, and a number that can most likely be transferred in some fashion.

When it comes to actually moving the worlds over though, it's likely we will turn to the community, whether it's Atilla's World Service, capasha's version of EEditor, or anyone else that wishes to contribute programs to make the necessary copies. As staff, we'll try to make sure the most popular levels out there will be moved over to the reboot (at least faithfully recreated relatively closely), but we can't realistically transfer every existing world from the current game to the reboot, as it's simply unfeasible.

When it gets closer to the time, the staff can discuss the possibility of providing an offline client, but we can't guarantee doing that.

In terms of keeping access by World ID, this is very unlikely, as the reboot is unlikely to have the same format of World IDs anyway.

There's still plenty of time to figure out what's going to happen, and, as mentioned, I do not plan on shutting down the current version of the game until the majority of the community have made the leap to the reboot, and are prepared for the shut down.

We have to let go of the past to provide a brighter future for this game.

Kirby, Atikyne, Phinarose, hummerz5, Raphe9000, RavaTroll, ByteArray, Onjit, 21Twelve, Xfrogman43, Norwee, N1KF, Jersa, Slabdrill

Norwee · 2018-06-22 05:16:48

Looks good. I am going to work very hard on transferring and salvaging as many of mine and Ipwner’s levels as possible so please give plenty of time for us all to perform our work.

Official Everybody Edits Forums

#1 2018-05-27 22:38:35, last edited by N1KF (2019-04-19 02:21:59)