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AlphaJon

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Re: Mafia | Game 5 - Mafia/Witch Victory: The New Law

Now that I have your opinions, I think we can safely say Rhaz is being too aggressive, and trying to lynch about half the town.
So far he's trying to get the town to follow him blindly.
Let's look at our possibilities for Rhaz:
Citizen: he would be trying to catch the scum by provoking everyone and waiting for triggers. It obviously failed since he's lost the trust of a few of us. Unlikely.

Investigate: one died, but nothing prevents a second one (random). He could have a clue about some people's actions, but the fact that he's voting that many people makes this unlikely. Or he identified scum successfully, and wants us to have his will. But in this case he could just have roleclaimed and say the names of the scum, so this one is unlikely.

Protective: his aim is to actually have people target him, so he can fully use his abilities this night, in order to catch the mafia/prevent a mafia kill. However, for this to work, he needs to not get lynched, and the mafia has to actually target him, which I think they won't do because he's already a target for the town. Not as unlikely, but flawed (not lynched AND targeted by mafia). Neutral opinion on this.

Town killing: I'm going to consider only veteran, because sheriff gives the same result as citizen, except for the fact that he'll make a kill by himself during night.

Veteran: he wants people to target him, in order to counteract all of them and killing them at the same time. For this to work, same reason as protective, but more likely to happen, because he will use the most of his night actions. Likely, but also flawed, because of the nolynch and mafia target criteria.

Support: escort or medium, doesn't matter, same as citizen above. Unlikely.

And then there's mafia/witch: He knows well how to try to lead the town. He got a free lynch, thanks to Unau, and planned on getting ninja too, then randomly switched targets. This has caused his plan to backfire, and now he is read as scum by some of us. However, by just blending in with the regular townie, he could have won eventually. Heck, the witch and the mafia could even win together if they could identify each other. Likely, but flawed, because he made mistakes which now are back at him.

In all cases, Rhaz, you didn't play well this mafia, because you let your plan go too far, which now screwed you over.

My global say on this is that you tried to lynch/provoke as much people as possible, in order to secure a win.

For these reasons, I will
!vote RhazzleFrazzle

I may be wrong, as there is always risk in mafia games, in which case I'd be glad to hear about arguments in favor of RhazzleFrazzle, and retract my vote. But don't forget we all still have to identify scum.

PS: I hope you enjoyed this wall of text, because it took me ages to write from my phone

AlphaJon

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Re: Mafia | Game 5 - Mafia/Witch Victory: The New Law

Ok, so there was some posts in between. So now Rhaz claims Sheriff. That changes the situation a bit. But in this case you could have claimed it right from the beginning, losing 1 town for 1 mafia is greatly helpful towards town winning. Why did you wait for everyone to read you as scum before doing so?

AlphaJon

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Re: Mafia | Game 5 - Mafia/Witch Victory: The New Law

There are 2 IRL days left, so I'll
!unvote
Until this gets sorted out
Sorry for the triple post, I'd edit them but edits aren't really encouraged in mafia games.

AlphaJon

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Re: Mafia | Game 5 - Mafia/Witch Victory: The New Law

Don't forget about framing though, because ninja's follow-vote was a trigger for some, aka the ideal target for mafia to have lynched. Do you honestly think he would give himself away as mafia in such a way?
About the witch f-over on rhaz: the worst that can happen is the witch controlling you every round to roleblock you, but at this point you'd make the witch useless at the same time, which isn't really great for someone who is on a self-alignment.

AlphaJon

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Re: Mafia | Game 5 - Mafia/Witch Victory: The New Law

I'd like to hear ninja's point of view, because atm we only have one side of the story.

AlphaJon

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Re: Mafia | Game 5 - Mafia/Witch Victory: The New Law

Tbh I find it weird that Rhaz waited that long to roleclaim. If he did it right from the beginning, he would have gained trust, and honestly, bringing the mafia number down to 2 would have been hugely beneficial, and after that I suppose he would get some protection overnight.
Now for something important you apparently forgot: The lookout died! Which means that for a sheriff to actually be there, it has to be part of the random town, which is unlikely considering the number of roles, and on top of that, the role would have to go to rhaz, which reduces the chance of him being sheriff down to around 1%.
So I will hold my first intuition, and

!vote RhazzleFrazzle

Btw the mafia has to hit twice to kill the witch, which effectively delays the "LyLo" situation by one night, assuming they don't collaborate(because to collaborate, they would need to know each other).

AlphaJon

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Re: Mafia | Game 5 - Mafia/Witch Victory: The New Law

Why would you think I'm voting him as retialation? I still don't take his vote on me seriously at the time of this post.
However, the fact that Ninja doesn't post is annoying me, to the point that I would vote him if he doesn't reply.
In the meantime my bet's still on Rhaz.

AlphaJon

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Re: Mafia | Game 5 - Mafia/Witch Victory: The New Law

Well, if there is no lynch, let's just hope the vigilante will get it right, if there is one, because the Rhaz/Ninja issue will still not be solved.
PS: Ninja's last post was more than 24hours ago (more than 48 actually), I think Creature should prod him.

AlphaJon

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Re: Mafia | Game 5 - Mafia/Witch Victory: The New Law

Creature: If Ninja doesn't come back, or comes back a bit too late, would you agree to extend the day deadline a bit? Usually I wouldn't care, but right now he's right in the middle of the mafiahunting thing

AlphaJon

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Re: Mafia | Game 5 - Mafia/Witch Victory: The New Law

So, if I got it right, W24 got killed by a mafia other than Ninja.
now that ninja is confirmed as mafia I guess we can trust Rhaz.
I really thought he was pulling the town investigate card to get out of the situation he's got in.
Guess we got lucky the mafia targeted the veteran right when he's on alert, and it happened to be ninja :o
Well, the consigliere is dead, meaning they know at most 2 player roles outside of mafia, plus who the veteran is.

@Rhaz: did you get an interesting result tonight?

AlphaJon

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Re: Mafia | Game 5 - Mafia/Witch Victory: The New Law

It implies me as the Veteran.

That's what I thought too when I read his post, but in this case you wouldn't be able to know ninja was mafia, plus, you could have been counterclaimed if you were actually veteran but claimed sheriff => mislynch because lied about PR.

So far (as I remember), noone claimed being roleblocked, so I suppose there are no roleblockers in either side, just the witch, which(no pun intended) is controlling.

AlphaJon

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Re: Mafia | Game 5 - Mafia/Witch Victory: The New Law

Noone claimed D1(either the controlled has something to hide, or Processor was the controlled one), Ninja claimed D2, and we have to wait for D3.

AlphaJon

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Re: Mafia | Game 5 - Mafia/Witch Victory: The New Law

why would the mafia not target rhaz?
either:
- they did target rhaz, but the mafia doing the killing was witch'd to w24
- they can't target rhaz, because rhaz is mafia/witch

You seem to forget this one:
Rhaz would be too risky for mafia or witch to target, because they assume he would be protected.
Maybe they got info of the bodyguard through earlier investigating, and maybe decided to get rid of him to remove protection? Or random target along the lines of "don't target Rhaz yet, you don't want to die because of that". Or he is a super-town(tm) having multiple PR at once, including sheriff and veteran

no. he could still be mafia or witch.

I don't think he's mafia, because that would imply betraying Ninja just to pass as town (mind game level over 9000?). Witch may be possible, but the Ninja = mafia info has to come from somewhere, and the witch doesn't get the night results of the controlled targets.

AlphaJon

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Re: Mafia | Game 5 - Mafia/Witch Victory: The New Law

I can already imagine the thing
Rhaz: !vote Kaslai
Kaslai: (defending himself)
Rhaz: Jokes on you, it was a pressure vote, the fact that you reacted this way confirms my suspicions
(and the rest of the day gets based on the Rhaz vs Kaslai thing)
THE END
/exaggeration

AlphaJon

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Re: Mafia | Game 5 - Mafia/Witch Victory: The New Law

Dunno, why Kaslai in particular? I mean, we are 8, you must have a particular reason on why you decided to go on him.
Guess I'll have to take some time to reread the whole topic to get a better understanding of it.

AlphaJon

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Re: Mafia | Game 5 - Mafia/Witch Victory: The New Law

Good to know my posts are considered spam
Back on topic: I don't think I'll have the time to reread the topic today, so I don't really have any read for anyone except Rhaz, and I'm already saying out openly what I think of him in my previous posts. (I admit this post isn't really useful, I just want you to know I won't be very active today)

AlphaJon

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Re: Mafia | Game 5 - Mafia/Witch Victory: The New Law

Tbh I don't have anyone in mind for mafia or witch, so I'll just
!nolynch
for now, however,

Onjit's post reminded me of that N1/D2 blackmail message, but what surprises me is that noone mentions being contacted the days after that one, and the blackmailer can do his action while killing, so there would be no point in not using his ability (because he can follow the one he sends a message to, right?).
My guess is that there is no blackmailer, and Anak could have made it up to cover himself. However I could be wrong, and in this case the blackmailer simply doesn't supposedly worry about his special ability. And who knows, the blackmailer may show up tonight in this case.
Whatever the outcome is, I'm not so sure about him being town, but not enough doubt yet to vote him.

AlphaJon

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Re: Mafia | Game 5 - Mafia/Witch Victory: The New Law

I don't have much time to post, and apparently everyone only swears by ppl's scumreads, because my posts are considered useless even though I put detail of everything I think of. However I don't have much time right now, so I will make a summary of what I think of the remaining ones.
note: I'm bad at reading people, whether it be irl or on the net

Calicara: Against Rhaz, in a rather vivid way. Basically I consider it as everything but bussing(because why would mafia bus 2 members??), so at least Calicara or Rhaz is town, maybe both of them are.
Onjit: Can't really tell, doesn't post much. Mostly agrees with Rhaz, but I don't know how to interpret that.
maxi123: Doesn't look suspicious to me, because he seems to act genuinely through the game.
Pyromaniac: he's not even there anymore. I honestly don't know.
Anak: The N1 Blackmailer thing looks weird to me, because first, he didn't mention the message immediately, just making an allusion to it, only some posts later did he said the message was like "You're being watched". The fact that there was no blackmail the next nights makes me think there is no blackmailer, and Anak's covering himself up.
AlphaJon: Do I really have to give this one too?
Kaslai: Always on alert, which I appreciate, especially to compensate the inb4 inactivity, but I can't really tell if he's against town or mafia.
RhazzleFrazzle: I already made a wall-of-text(c) about him, and later another post, and I don't really want to repeat myself.

I noticed something particular in this mafia, I'll explain later, but I don't have time now for that.

AlphaJon

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Re: Mafia | Game 5 - Mafia/Witch Victory: The New Law

Well, by current standings, Calicara and Onjit are the main potential lynchees. If we don't lynch, we will end up in a "Lynch or lose situation", and noone wants that. Out of the 2, I'd consider Onjit as more suspicious, because I can see him going behind Rhaz looking for protection out of the blue. He doesn't seem to have allies, so I'd lean for a witch. I will
!vote Onjit
If we get the witch down, Rhaz would be able to gather whatever info he needs to find the mafias, assuming he's really the Sheriff (I still doubt it a bit), and there is someone to protect him.

AlphaJon

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Re: Mafia | Game 5 - Mafia/Witch Victory: The New Law

I'll tell you something: being the witch is hard: You're all by yourself. Town is against you. The mafia doesn't know you, so they can also kill you unknowingly. (Well, at least the only protection I had)

I couldn't interact with them in any way until late D4, literally around 2 hours before the end of the day, when Kaslai FINALLY messaged me.

The night action is essentially a roleblock+possible random action, which can get you killed by Veteran, should you go on him, in the same way as anyone else, regardless of the shield.

My parade until mid-D3 was simple: I would act as a real townie, look for mafia as if I really wanted them dead. Except for the Rhaz part. He was too controlling to be trusted easily, and I played on that.
Somewhat later I find out people start reading me as scum, and don't ask me why, but I immediately imagined Rhaz coming back at me. And there I didn't dare to post as often as before, because a misplaced character in an otherwise regular text can get you out in mafia. (Calicara got reads from other players go from towy to scummy progressively as she slipped, it would have been a matter of time before she gets lynched.)

About the blackmail messages: you really had to wait till the very end to contact me, huh?
I thought about kaslai being the one behind it, but what made me think it was Anak who sent me the message is the fact that Kaslai wasn't in the logged in users list when I received the PM, while Anak was on. Guess you can't even trust the forums themselves in mafia

AlphaJon

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Re: Mafia | Game 5 - Mafia/Witch Victory: The New Law

Oh yeah, a funny thing: N1 and N3, I had the same targets as the mafia, without knowing anything about them. There was just the N2 Ninja on Ninja thing, but otherwise my roleblocks were useless since the targets dieded.