Official Everybody Edits Forums

Kirby

Member

Joined: 2015-04-04

Posts: 4,311

Debates anonymity

Forum mods can still see the usernames

Idk i just think it would improve the nature of the subforum

hummerz5

Member

From: wait I'm not a secret mod huh

Joined: 2015-08-10

Posts: 5,854

Re: Debates anonymity

It might prevent ad hominem, but foul actions on the internet often spring up from the anonymity. Not that a username is any form of being known, but would being anonymous in the forum just cause less coherent discussion?

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TaskManager

Formerly maxi123

From: i really should update this

Joined: 2015-03-01

Posts: 9,465

Re: Debates anonymity

Well debating sure may get your reputation lower in the community, but if you are brave enough to state out your point in a debate, then be brave enough to handle the hate as well

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Pyromaniac

Official Caroler

Joined: 2015-02-15

Posts: 4,868

Re: Debates anonymity

This is a bad idea. If you don't have the balls to show your face when stating an opinion then it's not worth saying.

"If you believe in something, you sign your name to it"

-Ron swanson

Ratburntro44

Member

Joined: 1970-01-01

Posts: 1,383

Website

Re: Debates anonymity

that's absolutely absurd, someone being too afraid of being attacked for holding an opinion is by no means proof that the opinion is worthless

if you lived in nazi germany, would the opinion that "jews shouldn't be killed and the nazis are bad" be worthless just because most people would be terrified to publicly attach their face to the opinion?

sorry for the obvious comparison but seriously that is a really really dumb thing to say

Pyromaniac

Official Caroler

Joined: 2015-02-15

Posts: 4,868

Re: Debates anonymity

Ok friend, there are a couple problems with your post.

1) this isn't bimpsing nazi Germany. Obviously. That was an awful analogy. Come on man, seriously? This is a forum for a kids game not an evil cult like nation. I'm not even going to dignify this with any more of a response because it's ridiculous. You have to learn how to interpret ideas in context.

2) if you WERE to look at my post in context, you would see that I'm talking about the people here that hold.....controversial beliefs who would probably benefit from this anonymity. Like an above post said, the anonymity of the Internet brings out the worst in people and creates a lot of hot headed individuals with (dumb) strong beliefs. If there were hidden identities here who knows what kind of hateful nonsense people would spew.

3) you immediately dipped into the Nazi well? Really??

4) If you're going to say something (AGAIN PLEASE READ THIS IN CONTEXT. I'm not talking about "not killing the Jews) that you're embarrassed to say publicly, chances are it's pretty damn bad and you might want to reconsider saying it.

I understand your point, but honestly for the purposes of THIS SPECIFIC FORUM, I hold by my point.

Also no need to come at me like that. Rude.

EDIT- I have much more to say to you but it'll have to wait till I get back home. Please hold. It's gonna be a doozy.

EDIt2-

Ok here we go. Since you wanted to go down the melodrama route let me ask you something. If terrible things are going on around you, and you do nothing about it (be it for fear of your own life, or any number of reasons), are you any better than the perpetrators? I watched a video recently, a PSA or something, that drew a aline between "not racists" and "anti racists". Non racists are the passive ones. They consider it good enough that they think they're "Not racist". Anti racists on the other hand cut out actively try to make a change in their lives, be it by acknowledging white privilege, cutting out racist friends, protesting, whatever. Obviously this is the riskier of the two options. But should you keep quiet because of this risk?

Whether or not I agree 100% with the points the video made, it was still thought provoking. If you believe something, but keep quiet, how strongly can you really believe in it?

To bring in a different example other than the ridiculous Nazi one, lets talk about the Underground Railroad.

This took place during a trying time in American history. Slavery was at a peak, and it was extremely dangerous to be caught assisting a slave. YET, some people took the initiative and stood for their beliefs. Obviously they didn't plaster their faces all over town saying "IM HELPING SLAVES", because like I said before: context. But they still did something. They took a stand.

You get my point, surely. Terrible things are always happening, right now even with the whole potential Muslim situation. If I keep quiet because I'm worried people like jawapa will think I'm stupid, what does it matter what I think???

hummerz5

Member

From: wait I'm not a secret mod huh

Joined: 2015-08-10

Posts: 5,854

Re: Debates anonymity

Leaving personal values aside, anonymity would remove the alluring ad hominem attacks.

At the same time, people would be "ooh I think I know who this person is based on their textual voice! let me post about that and go off topic!" or something similar.

compromise: LegalizeDupeAccounts2016#

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Ratburntro44

Member

Joined: 1970-01-01

Posts: 1,383

Website

Re: Debates anonymity

Ok friend, there are a couple problems with your post.

1) this isn't bimpsing nazi Germany. Obviously. That was an awful analogy. Come on man, seriously? This is a forum for a kids game not an evil cult like nation. I'm not even going to dignify this with any more of a response because it's ridiculous. You have to learn how to interpret ideas in context.

The specific example isn't really relevant, it just demonstrates the mechanism by which your claim is absurd. Are the following examples more suitable for you?

- Tommy and his gang of bullies on the playground won't let any girls use the slide. Timmy thinks this is wrong, but Tommy says any boy who disagrees with him is a sissy and will get beaten up. Timmy is too afraid to voice his opinion. Does that make it worthless?
- Timmy is on an internet forum wanting to debate a point. However, a trollish user who is somewhat prone to harassing others is vehemently in opposition to him. Timmy has (not totally unreasonable) fears that if he posts, the troll may start harassing him in private messages, or, with really bad luck, the troll may try to dox him. Does that make Timmy's opinion worthless?

2) if you WERE to look at my post in context, you would see that I'm talking about the people here that hold.....controversial beliefs who would probably benefit from this anonymity. Like an above post said, the anonymity of the Internet brings out the worst in people and creates a lot of hot headed individuals with (dumb) strong beliefs. If there were hidden identities here who knows what kind of hateful nonsense people would spew.

Most unreasonable people probably don't care all that much about their pseudonym being attached to an opinion anyways. Moreover, any actual spewing of hatred would still be dealt with by mods in pretty much the same way it is today (it's also pretty noticeable when people get banned- so if you get banned for spewing hatred in the debate forums people will realize they were doing it anyways).

Overall, identities are already plenty hidden on this website to allow people to spew "hateful nonsense". However, what there isn't is anything stopping the hateful nonsense spewers from going after particular other users or bringing it beyond this website. I have no doubt that anonymity would be much more useful to people wanting to avoid hateful nonsense being spewed to their PMs or email than it would be to the people wanting to do the spewing.

3) you immediately dipped into the Nazi well? Really??

Yeah. It's a pretty obvious counterexample to your claim that clearly makes the point. That's pretty much exactly how you're supposed to disprove something.

4) If you're going to say something (AGAIN PLEASE READ THIS IN CONTEXT. I'm not talking about "not killing the Jews) that you're embarrassed to say publicly, chances are it's pretty damn bad and you might want to reconsider saying it.

That seems pretty unreasonable. Plenty of people are embarrassed to say anything against someone who is making a heated argument, yet you present no reason why that would be a bad thing to say. There are far more reasons to be embarrassed to say something than it simply being a terrible horrible viewpoint- and I strongly doubt most of the people holding those terrible horrible viewpoints care too much about what other people consider of their pseudonyms here.

I understand your point, but honestly for the purposes of THIS SPECIFIC FORUM, I hold by my point.

Also no need to come at me like that. Rude.

EDIT- I have much more to say to you but it'll have to wait till I get back home. Please hold. It's gonna be a doozy.

EDIt2-

Ok here we go. Since you wanted to go down the melodrama route let me ask you something. If terrible things are going on around you, and you do nothing about it (be it for fear of your own life, or any number of reasons), are you any better than the perpetrators?

Yes.

I watched a video recently, a PSA or something, that drew a aline between "not racists" and "anti racists". Non racists are the passive ones. They consider it good enough that they think they're "Not racist". Anti racists on the other hand cut out actively try to make a change in their lives, be it by acknowledging white privilege, cutting out racist friends, protesting, whatever. Obviously this is the riskier of the two options. But should you keep quiet because of this risk?

In an ideal world, no. But there's a big difference between not doing something out of fear and not doing it out considering what you are doing "good enough". I also don't think that being a coward would invalidate one's opinion here.

Whether or not I agree 100% with the points the video made, it was still thought provoking. If you believe something, but keep quiet, how strongly can you really believe in it?

Plenty strongly, in my opinion. There are just other things that people can hold more important, such as their safety, their privacy, or any number of things. Moreover, the difference between someone willing and someone not willing to say doesn't indicate any difference in strength of belief at all- if you are a coward (in other words, have a stronger fear), then an equally strong belief in the opinion as someone willing to speak up might not, for you, be strong enough to give it priority over your fear.

To bring in a different example other than the ridiculous Nazi one, lets talk about the Underground Railroad.

This took place during a trying time in American history. Slavery was at a peak, and it was extremely dangerous to be caught assisting a slave. YET, some people took the initiative and stood for their beliefs. Obviously they didn't plaster their faces all over town saying "IM HELPING SLAVES", because like I said before: context. But they still did something. They took a stand.

You get my point, surely. Terrible things are always happening, right now even with the whole potential Muslim situation. If I keep quiet because I'm worried people like jawapa will think I'm stupid, what does it matter what I think???

Yeah, some people did help. Some people are much braver than others are. I don't think that makes their opinions more valid.

It matters what you think because it might be right, not because of how willing you are to say it. Bravery is a terrible method of assigning value to people's opinions.

Pyromaniac

Official Caroler

Joined: 2015-02-15

Posts: 4,868

Re: Debates anonymity

Yeah. It's a pretty obvious counterexample to your claim that clearly makes the point. That's pretty much exactly how you're supposed to disprove something.

OK but the "Hilter/Nazi" argument is barely an argument due to its extreme overuse. You sound at least somewhat intelligent, I would've expected more from you!

- Tommy and his gang of bullies on the playground won't let any girls use the slide. Timmy thinks this is wrong, but Tommy says any boy who disagrees with him is a sissy and will get beaten up. Timmy is too afraid to voice his opinion. Does that make it worthless?
- Timmy is on an internet forum wanting to debate a point. However, a trollish user who is somewhat prone to harassing others is vehemently in opposition to him. Timmy has (not totally unreasonable) fears that if he posts, the troll may start harassing him in private messages, or, with really bad luck, the troll may try to dox him. Does that make Timmy's opinion worthless?

But what good does his opinion do anybody? None. I mean, by all means, HAVE OPINIONS. But if nobody ever hears them then whats the point..?

That seems pretty unreasonable. Plenty of people are embarrassed to say anything against someone who is making a heated argument, yet you present no reason why that would be a bad thing to say. There are far more reasons to be embarrassed to say something than it simply being a terrible horrible viewpoint- and I strongly doubt most of the people holding those terrible horrible viewpoints care too much about what other people consider of their pseudonyms here.

I will cede that it hasn't stopped some people from throwing out hateful opinions. *ahem Jawapa*

But can you imagine how much worse it might get if nobody was held accountable? Even if that accountability is merely the fear of public ridicule? Have you been on yik yak? People say the WORST things on there, all because they know there will be no repercussions.

Yes.

Oh I see. Well, point taken!

It matters what you think because it might be right, not because of how willing you are to say it. Bravery is a terrible method of assigning value to people's opinions.

But you must see the issue here. In many situations by not speaking up you're enabling a bad thing to happen. Who gives a poop if you "think" its wrong. Thats not going to stop a murder, or a rape, or ANYTHING.

It really comes down to (in the situations that we're talking about now) whether you think your life is more valuable than another persons. Are you willing to watch someone die (again, you chose to be melodramatic) because you're too scared to voice an opinion? How would you live with yourself afterwards? I dont think I could.