Campaign mode - alternative solutions discussion

Kira · 2015-07-30 16:11:56

So you're meaning that EE should stay the same?

I strongly disagree with this statement. Sure, the game has always been "Everybody Edits", but if you want to make your game bigger, more enjoyable, having fun experiences while playing level, making levels for the suitable campaign, I think we're taking the right path, the path of improvement

Honestly, I don't care a lot if I lose edit in my own world, I can still access it via non-campaign mode and that's what it counts.

Also, I think they're relatively generous to give us a world with the same size as the chosen one for campaign.

Creature · 2015-07-30 16:13:16

Insanity wrote:

campaign would defeat the purpose of EE. The point of this game so other people create the campaign, the level experience, for you. Making a "campaign" mode is like what this game was about in the first place.

Would you consider a "code is 1234" world part of campaign mode?

Kirby · 2015-07-30 16:57:09

How about, "mod mode"

From what I heard, if a garden uses their special purple glow, they can't exit out of it

Maybe, if you hit g, you have godon, but you can not exit out of it for the rest of the session. So you can still fly around, but no cheating.

Falk, eeisold

Krosis · 2015-07-30 16:57:39

I think the world owner could have rights to use god mode, bu the way, the world owner probrably already test this world like 2 times, and the people who get the trophy can god on and god off on whathever place they like, just to watch the map, or see peoples and maybe help them by showing the solution, i agree with the terms.

BuzzerBee · 2015-07-30 16:57:58

I think Calicara's idea is great.
To you people who say the game has been based on multiplayer, honestly you should be against anything but an open world, then. The entire game is single player now, most levels are intended for one player without other player interaction. The only multiplayer aspect is chat. You don't have to play campaigns if you don't want to sacrifice the multiplayer element of the game, but I think what Calicara said is our best option.

Fradeshan · 2015-07-30 17:04:07

BuzzerBee wrote:

I think Calicara's idea is great.
To you people who say the game has been based on multiplayer, honestly you should be against anything but an open world, then. The entire game is single player now, most levels are intended for one player without other player interaction. The only multiplayer aspect is chat. You don't have to play campaigns if you don't want to sacrifice the multiplayer element of the game, but I think what Calicara said is our best option.

bosses, keys, curses, zombies

although i see your point in that most of "playing" is not multiplayer

mrjawapa · 2015-07-30 17:14:56

Wouldn't single player worlds defeat the multiplayer purpose of the game?

iPwner, Onjit, Nou, Falk

Calicara · 2015-07-30 17:50:02

Fradeshan wrote:

BuzzerBee wrote:
I think Calicara's idea is great.
To you people who say the game has been based on multiplayer, honestly you should be against anything but an open world, then. The entire game is single player now, most levels are intended for one player without other player interaction. The only multiplayer aspect is chat. You don't have to play campaigns if you don't want to sacrifice the multiplayer element of the game, but I think what Calicara said is our best option.
bosses, keys, curses, zombies
although i see your point in that most of "playing" is not multiplayer

I think you're missing the point. Campaign does not seem to mean to replace to the multiplayer aspects of EE but rather to provide additional incentive for people to play and create quality maps.

That's why I think they should be split from the regular map. Some people like to play just for the fun of playing and hanging out, and other worlds (bot assisted) would not work with this feature. But it's not like you will be forced to play campaigns, from what we've seen they're optional and you can choose not to do them, so it won't effect your normal gameplay.

TiKen · 2015-07-30 17:58:45

I personally won't recommend a "solo" (in a "potion of solitude" sens) mode for campaign. Many MMO games have massive solo campaigns, and yet, it's still nice to have interactions with others, that might unexpectedly help you (killing a mob, show you a hidden path, etc etc).

If you want to prevent a world owner from cheating, copy the world, and give them /godon mode if they finished it once. Or give them /godon, but disable /godoff (they have to leave and re-enter if they want to win)

Falk, Different55, Zoey2070, iPwner, Nou

BEE · 2015-07-30 17:58:59

Kira wrote:

Honestly, I don't care a lot if I lose edit in my own world, I can still access it via non-campaign mode and that's what it counts.

No, you wouldn't be able to access edit at all, that's the reason people are having a problem with giving up their edit rights.

Hexagon wrote:

The users whose maps are selected to be in the campaign should not be allowed to play them because they have an unfair advantage (they made the map!) If there are only a small selection of maps from a few users, this won't be a large issue however.
Users should not be able to see each other play the campaign map, because that would give them an unfair advantage if they saw someone else completing the same section of the level. Having the campaign author is also unfair, because they can give advice to people but some users won't get it.

+Calicara etc.

I... think I finally see why some people are upset by campaign mode. They see it as a singleplayer aspect in a largely multiplayer game. They see it as something that separates EE from what holds it together the most: the community.

Being online and playing with other people, having other people "show you" the answer isn't cheating at all... that's everybody edits!

My god it wouldn't be everybody edits if this were a singleplayer mode. I mean, I was looking forward to hanging out in FV, watching my friends play, as well as maybe even completing some of the medium worlds with my friends' guidance. That's why I would want to be able to turn god on and off, so I can help people that are stuck, not by drawing blocks for them, but acting as a guide. I see how some might consider that cheating, but it's the same as playing through the level with a friend to help you, or watching a walkthrough video on youtube, simply makes it more interactive.

This reminds me of a discussion I was having with someone where they basically said that they hated that the lobby was based on people online because they wanted to play good worlds, not worlds simply with other people in them. I was extremely confused because why play this game if not for the other people? Having other people playing increases my enjoyment of a level significantly. They disagreed. I wonder if I can find this thread, it was an interesting conversation at least.

So in conclusion, guys, campaign mode is basically featured levels with small rewards. The reason you lose edit is so the owner can't draw a path to the trophy for people to win unfairly. You already don't do this, but it basically ensures no one can claim you have.

Nou, Norwee, Falk, TSF14, Swarth100, Thanel, Calicara

skullz17 · 2015-07-30 19:43:54

I don't mind too much whether we have the solo aspect or not, but it's the "two copies" part which I definitely prefer.

BuzzerBee

Tamashiimizu · 2015-07-30 20:10:59

I'm against a single player mode, because... come on man, no one wants to be "locked" in a hard world, trying to beat a mini for several minutes alone. This seems like a jail to me.

But i'm also against the world owner helping people all the time. It would be like learning multiplication tables from a calculator: you're not learning at all.
So my suggestion is: make the world owner can't get off from god mode, so he can talk with others, he can tell how to beat some mini, but he can't show how to.
I don't see a problem about some other player showing how to beat a mini, because i consider this to be natural. Other players will play the world and will beat it, and it's just natural for someone to watch it. But IF this seems to be a problem, maybe you could disable spectating or make the everyone else besides the player invisible (a more radical approach), like a solitude potion, but still able to chat.

About editing: you could allow the world owner to edit, but not in campaign mode. The owner could ask for a guardian/moderator to edit and during some hours/days the world would not be in campaign mode. If the modification changes the gameplay (by some degree) you can change the prizes accordingly. The problem is: while the level is not in campaign mode, there should be another world replacing the old one, otherwise you will just create a gap in the campaign world list.

Also, if you want people not to edit things, than you have to be careful with the changes you make to EE. The Timbered Pack changes in 12/jun broke some of the aesthetic of some worlds, which could influence on gameplay.

Kirby · 2015-07-30 20:55:32

Tamashiimizu wrote:

I'm against a single player mode, because... come on man, no one wants to be "locked" in a hard world, trying to beat a mini for several minutes alone. This seems like a jail to me

very agreed. This would be fine for the easier missions, but what about the extreme ones? It's boring as hell to try to beat forgotten veil alone...

Nou · 2015-07-30 21:28:20

To be very clear: we're not doing any single player mode stuff. EE is a multiplayer game and we'd very much like to keep it that way. As BEE mentioned the interaction around playing and beating levels, being helped, cheered, shown, chatting, sharing the frustration and victories, it's all part of EE and I don't want that to fade. The whole unfair advantage thing is not an argument to me, I'm sure there's going to be videos showing how to beat some levels, but in a way that's also bringing the community together by sharing.

So far, the /godon /godoff for world owners only after having beaten it in campaign mode seems acceptable to me. By this I mean the 'beat once keep godon' thing.

The exploit fixes I suppose we can do if there's a really bad exploit, but of course generally there won't be many because we select high quality stuff, and we won't do any physics changes so it'd be weird if something broke.

Idk how the rest of the team thinks about it yet cause I just got home, but how would that be for you guys?

1. /godon /godoff for world owners after beating in campaign.
2. Edits requestable if really really needed for exploit fixes.

iPwner, BEE, Tamashiimizu

Calicara · 2015-07-30 21:34:02

I still think the campaign worlds should be copies. Even with multiplayer enabled, if you treat campaign worlds like regular worlds not only will they be in the top of the lobby forever, but some may (at a future point) suffer from an influx of players. Like if everyone wanted to play an easy campaign, I don't want to be competing against 30-40 other players, it's just too distracting.

Although I'm sure the devs are working on this. Just putting it out there

Nou · 2015-07-30 21:44:52

Calicara wrote:

I still think the campaign worlds should be copies. Even with multiplayer enabled, if you treat campaign worlds like regular worlds not only will they be in the top of the lobby forever, but some may (at a future point) suffer from an influx of players. Like if everyone wanted to play an easy campaign, I don't want to be competing against 30-40 other players, it's just too distracting.
Although I'm sure the devs are working on this. Just putting it out there

Ah yes, forgot to address that. We're thinking of having campaign levels always at the bottom.

Swarth100 · 2015-07-30 21:51:30

Nou wrote:

1. /godon /godoff for world owners after beating in campaign.
2. Edits requestable if really really needed for exploit fixes.

Answers:

1) I find it as a nice average, no full powers but also no lack of them if you finish your world

2) I find this feature might be needed if there is an acidental problem with a world the owner was unaware about

Nou wrote:

Ah yes, forgot to address that. We're thinking of having campaign levels always at the bottom.

Dunno really about that.... in the end they are normal worlds that some players are playing as campaign, but not all of them... some of them might just want nice worlds to be there for fun
(SIDE NOTE: By putting them at the bottom you reinforce the idea of having a single-player EE, trying to isolate players on the campaign from other regular EE players; your post clearly states that such might not be your intention... dunno.)

-spinastar

Nou · 2015-07-30 22:03:43

Spinastar wrote:

Nou wrote:
1. /godon /godoff for world owners after beating in campaign.
2. Edits requestable if really really needed for exploit fixes.
Answers:
1) I find it as a nice average, no full powers but also no lack of them if you finish your world
2) I find this feature might be needed if there is an acidental problem with a world the owner was unaware about

Nou wrote:
Ah yes, forgot to address that. We're thinking of having campaign levels always at the bottom.
Dunno really about that.... in the end they are normal worlds that some players are playing as campaign, but not all of them... some of them might just want nice worlds to be there for fun
(SIDE NOTE: By putting them at the bottom you reinforce the idea of having a single-player EE, trying to isolate players on the campaign from other regular EE players; your post clearly states that such might not be your intention... dunno.)
-spinastar

I can't predict player behaviour, I'm sure campaigns will be VERY popular at first, but I can't tell what happens after they age a bit. We'll have to see and wait it out, not everything can/has to be decided right now.

Hexagon · 2015-07-30 22:23:27

Insanity wrote:

campaign would defeat the purpose of EE.

You're right about this. The game is literally called "Everybody Edits" so everybody is technically allowed to edit... sorta.

Aaro54 · 2015-07-30 22:54:43

Hexagon wrote:

Insanity wrote:
campaign would defeat the purpose of EE.
You're right about this. The game is literally called "Everybody Edits" so everybody is technically allowed to edit... sorta.

How do campaigns negate that? You can still go to a free edit world or your own world to edit, and it's not like you could either at the campaign world's anyways.

Kirby · 2015-07-30 22:58:59

Hexagon wrote:

Insanity wrote:
campaign would defeat the purpose of EE.
You're right about this. The game is literally called "Everybody Edits" so everybody is technically allowed to edit... sorta.

Right, because you only play open worlds, you never play saved ones.

BuzzerBee · 2015-07-31 00:07:19

Honestly I hate the /godon idea. If there's anything I despise in this game it's /godon. I hate being stuck in god mode with no ability to move around normally in the level.

What if campaign mode didn't require a copy of the world, but there were to different playing environments depending on if you were doing a campaign or not?

Example, if you're not currently playing the level in campaign mode, everything is normal for the owners. They can kick, teleport, do whatever to users who are NOT playing the level in campaign mode.
When the owner is in campaign mode, they must act like a normal player, and do not get any permissions (not even godon at the end). If they want to fly around in the level they have to be playing outside of campaign mode.

Also to prevent hacking, campaign mode should be server sided so bots don't have the option to enter a world with campaign mode on maybe? Not sure if it works like that.

Also when you join a world in a campaign outside of campaign mode, there should be a little notification.

This level is available in campaign mode! Would you like to enter campaign mode to receive prizes for beating the level?
(Yes) / (No, continue in non-campaign mode)

Let me know if you need some explaining of this idea.

Krosis

Nou · 2015-07-31 00:47:05

BuzzerBee wrote:

Honestly I hate the /godon idea. If there's anything I despise in this game it's /godon. I hate being stuck in god mode with no ability to move around normally in the level.
What if campaign mode didn't require a copy of the world, but there were to different playing environments depending on if you were doing a campaign or not?
Example, if you're not currently playing the level in campaign mode, everything is normal for the owners. They can kick, teleport, do whatever to users who are NOT playing the level in campaign mode.
When the owner is in campaign mode, they must act like a normal player, and do not get any permissions (not even godon at the end). If they want to fly around in the level they have to be playing outside of campaign mode.
Also to prevent hacking, campaign mode should be server sided so bots don't have the option to enter a world with campaign mode on maybe? Not sure if it works like that.
Also when you join a world in a campaign outside of campaign mode, there should be a little notification.
This level is available in campaign mode! Would you like to enter campaign mode to receive prizes for beating the level?
(Yes) / (No, continue in non-campaign mode)

Nou wrote:

1. /godon /godoff for world owners after beating in campaign.

Pls.

Also, the system you propose, I understand, but seems overly complicated for a single level. I appreciate the out-of-the-box thinking though.

some woman · 2015-07-31 01:16:15

This whole "you can't be the owner of your world anymore if you want it to be popular" thing seems ridiculous, as with "you can only play campaign levels by yourself". I think the world and the creator's ownership should be left completely intact, even when playing in Campaign mode (add an option to get rid of the chat and other players if you think it will bother the player so much). EE is multiplayer and you should deserve the rights to modify your own world.

Different55 · 2015-07-31 01:23:54

some man wrote:

This whole "you can't be the owner of your world anymore if you want it to be popular" thing seems ridiculous, as with "you can only play campaign levels by yourself". I think the world and the creator's ownership should be left completely intact, even when playing in Campaign mode (add an option to get rid of the chat and other players if you think it will bother the player so much). EE is multiplayer and you should deserve the rights to modify your own world.

what if

you could only modify it when not in campaign mode

and changes to the world would only show up after saving

it wouldn't solve anything but :OOOOO

Official Everybody Edits Forums

#26 2015-07-30 16:11:56, last edited by Kira (2015-07-30 16:12:31)

Re: Campaign mode - alternative solutions discussion

#27 2015-07-30 16:13:16

Re: Campaign mode - alternative solutions discussion

#28 2015-07-30 16:57:09

Re: Campaign mode - alternative solutions discussion

#29 2015-07-30 16:57:39

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#32 2015-07-30 17:14:56

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#33 2015-07-30 17:50:02

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#34 2015-07-30 17:58:45

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#35 2015-07-30 17:58:59

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#36 2015-07-30 19:43:54

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#37 2015-07-30 20:10:59

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#38 2015-07-30 20:55:32

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#39 2015-07-30 21:28:20

Re: Campaign mode - alternative solutions discussion

#40 2015-07-30 21:34:02, last edited by Calicara (2015-07-30 21:34:18)

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#41 2015-07-30 21:44:52

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#42 2015-07-30 21:51:30

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#43 2015-07-30 22:03:43

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#44 2015-07-30 22:23:27

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#45 2015-07-30 22:54:43

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#46 2015-07-30 22:58:59

Re: Campaign mode - alternative solutions discussion

#47 2015-07-31 00:07:19, last edited by BuzzerBee (2015-07-31 00:12:56)

Re: Campaign mode - alternative solutions discussion

#48 2015-07-31 00:47:05

Re: Campaign mode - alternative solutions discussion

#49 2015-07-31 01:16:15, last edited by some woman (2015-07-31 01:16:58)

Re: Campaign mode - alternative solutions discussion

#50 2015-07-31 01:23:54

Re: Campaign mode - alternative solutions discussion

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