Why is the word 'gay' in Everybody Edits is censored? Prejudice? -.-

Anak · 2015-06-05 23:13:51

Panic wrote:

Anak wrote:
Here comes an opinion from another.... [Full post takes far too much space, so dropping it]
It's not that people don't understand different orientations, it's like more due to them not caring. As far as I recall, I've only ever seen these "orientations" used to create drama and name it discrimination, with the only participant being the one who started it. I'm not a biologist, but I'm pretty sure nearly all life reproduces either in pairs of asexually (alone). It would be much simpler to keep orientations as dichotomous as possible as well. Obviously there still exists discrimination against homosexuality and such, but for the most part it's fairly well accepted. Now, for those extra genders or whatever, many people, myself included, honestly just don't care enough to learn what any of the terms mean, as they sound fake and have absolutely no impact in our lives, other than the previously mentioned drama.
As for in the game, just because it's not impossible that orientations will be discussed in this game does not mean that it is probable, and therefore does not deserve equal merit in this discussion. The target audience of the game is younger players, and therefore the population is likely younger players as well. A younger person is far more likely to use the term "gay" intended as an insult than in a discussion of orientations. Additionally, given the "children's game", discussions of orientation are hardly appropriate anyway. Therefore its context is more likely to be something that someone may find offensive, and therefore it should remain censored.

It's not your place to say that someone has "created" their sexual orientation for drama... Why would anyone make up their sexuality if they know they're going to be discriminated against anyways?
How life reproduces is sort of irrelevant. Plus, sexuality is not simple. With all the terms out there it can still be so hard to define yourself. Sexuality is very fluid and it's different to figure out for different people.
Homosexuality isn't really well accepted when there are still countries that will jail and kill people for it...

The fact that you say you don't care to learn it... That disgusts me, quite honestly. We have a whole pride month, we're shouting out how we need to be accepted, we're being discriminated against, hurt, jailed, killed, killing ourselves because of all that's happening to us, and all you can say is, "I don't care, it's probably fake anyways"? What do we have to do to spark your interest, huh? What do we have to do to get you to say "hm equality and human rights sounds good for everyone"? Or is that all just drama to you? Are we just making it up for some undeserved attention? You can't just live in your nice straight heterosexual world where everything is perfect and lovely and straight and think, "Boy oh boy! Good thing I don't have to worry about those gays not being treated like human beings! Time to go back to my straight day!!"

Jesus, even when you're saying "hah, that's gay, you're gay" ... It's making a mockery of us. Gay is something you want to avoid, something no one wants to be. Kids shouldn't be acting like that anyways! Who decided to drill that disgusting thought into their everyday? Why, it's you! Saying "discussions of orientation are hardly appropriate anyway" No it's not! You can't tell a kid, "Gay isn't appropriate for kids your age, don't be gay" and then go back to your straight world!! You can't let kids look at all the men kissing all the woman but when two men or two women even so much as hold hands you censor it.

How would you react if I said "don't be straight" "haha you're straight!!" You're not going to like that. If I tell you you're sexuality is fake you're going to think "Well no it's not because that's what I am" so don't go ahead and think that of others. It's so much easier to treat us like every other human being than to not.

Emma333, Mylo, BuzzerBee, skullz17, Zoey2070

rgl32 · 2015-06-06 00:06:26

JaWapa wrote:

Yeah it's beta only. Still valid. We kind of made beta the age/maturity verification.

I really dislike this statement. If I remember correctly there have been shared accounts that were beta that many people used, Im not sure if there are now but it still shows that anyone can be beta regardless of age, and plus at most all it takes is one question to their parent and they can get it. And being able to be mature has nothing to do whether or not you decided to pay money for something, that is a horrible way to measure maturity.

I personally don't care about the censors, you can usually tell what people say through context clues unless its someone who just got mad and made a one word statement.

Different55 · 2015-06-06 01:12:25

Do you guys want me to split the topic into 2 because I can totally do that really I can and I never get to do it so I really will if you guys ask me to.

N1KF

BuzzerBee · 2015-06-06 01:21:47

@Panic: If you're only argument is that it's a kids game and there's no need to discuss sexuality, find a new one.

That doesn't mean it should be censored, that just means it's not necessary to talk about. Do you know what else is unnecessary to talk about? Someone's favorite color. But we wouldn't ban the word "blue" from the game.
Furthermore, if it should be censored, then so should heterosexual because "What use is the discussion of different sexualities within a game?"

Your logic is flawed. You're the one trying to cause drama because you're not contributing valuable information to the topic, you're just making an invalid argument then continuing to talk about homosexuality outside of the game, which is specifically what you were rebuking Anak for doing.

AmdS

Anak · 2015-06-06 01:23:17

No thanks, I'd rather not continue to speak to someone like that.

And exactly what BuzzerBee said. I'm not the one trying to cause drama here. No one was until Panic came along.
(Hmm I wonder why people don't say they're gay when it's used as an insult so much anyways hmmmm)

Kira · 2015-06-06 01:53:18

Honestly you guys are making me laugh, the thread was already over and answered in 2 comments, no need to have a debate over 1 word.

AmdS, Pyromaniac

iPwner · 2015-06-06 04:55:40

Anak wrote:

I personally define myself as polysexual panromantic

LOL ;D

BuzzerBee · 2015-06-06 12:57:19

iPwner wrote:

Anak wrote:
I personally define myself as polysexual panromantic
LOL ;D

I don't get what's funny. Explain.

Let's just summarize the arguments so far:

FOR:
-Unnecessarily censored, there's nothing wrong with the word
-Censorship takes away people's ability to express themselves
-"Gay" can be an umbrella term for anyone who's not heterosexual and should not be taken as an insult
-Heterosexual isn't censored

AGAINST:
-Some people are offended by the word
-People shouldn't talk about their sexuality
-People like Zumza are still homophobic in the 21st century

AmdS

BEE · 2015-06-06 14:49:15

I'd like to add in some background and thoughts on the topic and even perhaps play devil's advocate as to why it may be censored.

Let's change the word, since "gay" is clearly an emotional word for many in this thread.

What about the word "retard" or "retarded"? This word is currently censored in game as well. (Though I am actually surprised it is not censored on the forums.)

The reason that it is censored is NOT because of a prejudice against people that have mental retardation, but rather the attempt to protect them.

There is a huge campaign out there to stop people from using the word as derogatory, and as the way the english language has evolved it has become an insult for 'normal' people to throw around. A similar trend happened with the word "idiot" and "moron" in the past.

When I was a kid, "retard" wasn't a bad word, in the same sense that "special ed" currently isn't a bad word. It was thrown around a bit, but at the same insult-level of "idiot" and "moron" these days.

The question is not whether or not the word "retard" is a Bad word, but whether people can and will use it in a derogatory tone carelessly to ultimately demean a group of people. Calling someone "retarded" in an attempt at an insult really puts down people with intellectual disabilities, more than the person you are talking to. Similar with calling someone "gay" as an attempt at an insult. You're right, there's nothing wrong with being gay, but when people carelessly throw it around in an attempt to insult each other, it is the gay community that is hurt the most.

Now "gay" also had other difficulties as well, because of political movements and cultural dissonance. In a similar vein, it is now acceptable for a black person to call his affiliates "****" (see, the forums censor this word, and rightly so, but you can probably guess what it is) but anyone else doing so would be considered racist. The reason this is okay is because they have been empowered and taken back the word and use it for their own purposes. Now I am no mystic and cannot predict the future, but it appears that the gay community does not wish to do a similar thing with the word "gay" but rather return it to normal identification, hence why it would be fine to return it to the pool of uncensored words. I have great hope that we will be able to do so in the end, especially because the stint of "gay" as a kneejerk insult only lasted a few years and is fading quickly, and before that it was simply a taboo.

So in the end, language evolves, and censors are a new thing that only recently came with the internet. The censors and how they respond to the evolution of language is still a work in progress, so I understand why it may still be censored. I do agree that it should ultimately be uncensored, but I would not have agreed to uncensorship several years ago when it was still used as an insult (again, not because it was insulting to be called gay, as it should not be insulting to be called retarded, but rather because it ultimately harmed the group by being used as an insult).

Pyromaniac, AmdS, Badoosh, rgl32, BuzzerBee, skullz17

Anak · 2015-06-06 15:02:30

iPwner wrote:

Anak wrote:
I personally define myself as polysexual panromantic
LOL ;D

Please take your awful beingness elsewhere. My self is not some sort of joke. What I do find funny, though, is any time you get banned. I'm guessing with that behaviour you're going to get a lot more, pretty soon, huh?

BEE wrote:

I'd like to add in some background and thoughts on the topic and even perhaps play devil's advocate as to why it may be censored.

I think if you're going to change it to the r-word, though, they're really only similar in the way that they've been used discriminatively. I haven't really seen anyone in the neurodivergent community (in this case people with learning disabilities) want to make the r-word their own. From what I've seen I think they'd just like to remove it altogether. I can't speak for the whole of the community though, but I haven't got the impression that they want to make it something good about themselves, like black people with the n-word, and in some cases our LGBT+ community with "bundle of sticks". (Censored rightly, imo, but I know others will want to use it for themselves.)
I get why you might compare these, but they're really only similar because they're all used for discriminative purposes. Each form of discrimination, be it homophobia, racism, ableism, etc., has its own issues which are different to the other. Yes, language evolves, but the intentions of each community to use the language used against them is different.

BEE · 2015-06-06 15:15:50

Very true Anak, and I addressed that in my second to last paragraph as well.

I was providing a reason as to why it was most likely originally censored, not as to why it should continue to be censored now (See my conclusion paragraph).

Anak wrote:

I can't speak for the whole of the community though, but I haven't got the impression that they want to make it something good about themselves

Not 'good' or something within their own community, like '****', but neutral. I said

Now I am no mystic and cannot predict the future, but it appears that the gay community does not wish to do a similar thing with the word "gay" but rather return it to normal identification

Perhaps you misread that sentence?

Slushie · 2015-06-06 15:28:08

The whole point of a swear filter is to prevent people from being offended by the use of certain words. Most people aren't comfortable talking about sexuality, and this applies even more so to EE because the game is full of children who have barely started puberty.

It doesn't mean anyone is a homophobe (okay, most people aren't) or that we want to suppress anyone. Sexuality, straight or not, simply has no place as a topic of discussion in a game like this. Yes, this means words like "heterosexual" and others should be filtered as well, but it's pretty obvious that the censor isn't perfect and still needs a lot of work.

Anak · 2015-06-06 15:48:32

BEE wrote:

Very true Anak, and I addressed that in my second to last paragraph as well.
I was providing a reason as to why it was most likely originally censored, not as to why it should continue to be censored now (See my conclusion paragraph).
Anak wrote:
I can't speak for the whole of the community though, but I haven't got the impression that they want to make it something good about themselves
Not 'good' or something within their own community, like 'Proud Person of Colour', but neutral. I said
Now I am no mystic and cannot predict the future, but it appears that the gay community does not wish to do a similar thing with the word "gay" but rather return it to normal identification
Perhaps you misread that sentence?

No, I didn't misread anything.

AmdS

N1KF · 2015-06-06 16:05:57

BuzzerBee wrote:

FOR:
-"Gay" can be an umbrella term for anyone who's not heterosexual and should not be taken as an insult

Except asexuals. I just realized spellcheck thinks "homosexuals" and other orientations are words, but not "asexuals". pls

FOR:
-Heterosexual isn't censored
AGAINST:
-People shouldn't talk about their sexuality

I would say these arguments are null, as "homosexual" itself is not censored (nor are any other orientations). "Gay" itself is (of course) censored, but "straight", "bi", "ace", etc. are not (likely because they are almost never used offensively and technically have multiple meanings).

AGAINST:
-People like Zumza are still homophobic in the 21st century

I find it strange how people use the "you are a tiny bit against homosexuality, therefore homophobia" argument. Zumza make legitimate arguments, and has clearly took time to make an argument (at least, compared to immediately hating on homosexuals for no apparent reason). By your user of "in the 21st century", you imply that (your definition of) homophobia is uncivilized and primitive, regardless of what arguments are given. By giving out the "homophobia-bomb", you are giving those against homosexuality relationships themselves a bad name, despite the fact that quite a few who are against homosexuality are not hateful to or attack homosexuals themselves.

Please try to just use "homophobia" when people are directly attacking homosexuals themselves with no valid reasoning. I know this may lose me some respect, but I am personally against same-sex relationships and the equality of homosexuality to heterosexuality (and asexual, grey-sexual, demiheterosexual, etc.). I say this so I can state my point of view as one who has been accused of being "homophobic". I may dislike what people do, but I love and respect everybody, as nobody is perfect.

I am starting to agree with Yes that all orientations to be censored (even though it might be harder to spread awareness of asexuality ).

AmdS, Pyromaniac, mrjawapa, Zoey2070

BEE · 2015-06-06 16:21:22

Anak wrote:

BEE wrote:
Very true Anak, and I addressed that in my second to last paragraph as well.
I was providing a reason as to why it was most likely originally censored, not as to why it should continue to be censored now (See my conclusion paragraph).
Anak wrote:
I can't speak for the whole of the community though, but I haven't got the impression that they want to make it something good about themselves
Not 'good' or something within their own community, like 'Proud Person of Colour', but neutral. I said
Now I am no mystic and cannot predict the future, but it appears that the gay community does not wish to do a similar thing with the word "gay" but rather return it to normal identification
Perhaps you misread that sentence?
No, I didn't misread anything.

Then your response makes no sense, given it doesn't actually refute my claim, but rather agrees with it.

AmdS, Pyromaniac

Anak · 2015-06-06 17:31:47

BEE wrote:

Anak wrote:
BEE wrote:
Very true Anak, and I addressed that in my second to last paragraph as well.
I was providing a reason as to why it was most likely originally censored, not as to why it should continue to be censored now (See my conclusion paragraph).
Anak wrote:
I can't speak for the whole of the community though, but I haven't got the impression that they want to make it something good about themselves
Not 'good' or something within their own community, like 'Proud Person of Colour', but neutral. I said
Now I am no mystic and cannot predict the future, but it appears that the gay community does not wish to do a similar thing with the word "gay" but rather return it to normal identification
Perhaps you misread that sentence?
No, I didn't misread anything.

Then your response makes no sense, given it doesn't actually refute my claim, but rather agrees with it.

Maybe you're misreading my post? I'm not sure I'm actually dis/agreeing rather than just making a comment on it...

N1KF wrote:

BuzzerBee wrote:
FOR:
-"Gay" can be an umbrella term for anyone who's not heterosexual and should not be taken as an insult
Except asexuals. I just realized spellcheck thinks "homosexuals" and other orientations are words, but not "asexuals". pls
FOR:
-Heterosexual isn't censored
AGAINST:
-People shouldn't talk about their sexuality
I would say these arguments are null, as "homosexual" itself is not censored (nor are any other orientations). "Gay" itself is (of course) censored, but "straight", "bi", "ace", etc. are not (likely because they are almost never used offensively and technically have multiple meanings).
AGAINST:
-People like Zumza are still homophobic in the 21st century
I find it strange how people use the "you are a tiny bit against homosexuality, therefore homophobia" argument. Zumza make legitimate arguments, and has clearly took time to make an argument (at least, compared to immediately hating on homosexuals for no apparent reason). By your user of "in the 21st century", you imply that (your definition of) homophobia is uncivilized and primitive, regardless of what arguments are given. By giving out the "homophobia-bomb", you are giving those against homosexuality relationships themselves a bad name, despite the fact that quite a few who are against homosexuality are not hateful to or attack homosexuals themselves.
Please try to just use "homophobia" when people are directly attacking homosexuals themselves with no valid reasoning. I know this may lose me some respect, but I am personally against same-sex relationships and the equality of homosexuality to heterosexuality (and asexual, grey-sexual, demiheterosexual, etc.). I say this so I can state my point of view as one who has been accused of being "homophobic". I may dislike what people do, but I love and respect everybody, as nobody is perfect.
I am starting to agree with Yes that all orientations to be censored (even though it might be harder to spread awareness of asexuality ).

I've seen people who are ace refer to themselves as gay.

Also, people who are against homosexual people people but don't attack them are still homophobic. Homophobia means dislike or prejudice against homosexual people. You saying you are against same-sex marriage is homophobic. You are denying us a right. You are literally saying yourself that you don't think homosexual people are equal to heterosexual people. Whether you love and respect everyone or not, that's homophobic.

Emma333

Slushie · 2015-06-06 17:35:01

Is this topic even about the censor anymore

Pingohits, N1KF, mrjawapa

Stagecrew · 2015-06-09 11:36:27

Let's look at some statistics here, people.

As you can see, support of gays has become the majority now, and opposition has become a minority. I think gay should be uncensored. Going back to the chart up there, when the censor was made most people would agree with it being censored but now it's offensive to most people to have it censored. Times have changed (and will continue to do so), and the censors need to change with them.

Napakeun, Mylo, AmdS

Different55 · 2015-06-09 15:59:40

I seriously doubt it was initially censored because the slight majority opposed gay marriage.

skullz17

TheSource85 · 2015-06-09 16:17:21

Perhaps it's because people were using it as a curse word towards others?

There are a lot of words which can be used in neutral or positive (so: acceptable) ways, while they also can be used in opposite manners.
If you shout Gay to someone it also had more strength in meaning than for instance: Lesbian.
While the 2 are almost the same, the latter is longer to type and doesn't convey any anger or respectless demeaner.

If you want, I can discuss it within the team.. Just let me know

AmdS, Stagecrew, skullz17

mrjawapa · 2015-06-09 19:55:38

After discussing this, we found little reason to keep the word censored. The word "gay" and "homo*" will be uncensored. We are also going to release the option to turn the censors off to everyone.

This will all take place during the next update.

To answer the initial question: no we are not prejudice. This was a decision made before we had control of the game. I personally felt it was a decision that should stick, but after debating we agree it could be uncensored.

AmdS, Panic, Stagecrew

AmdS · 2015-06-09 21:24:04

JaWapa :3

Thank you JaWapa, and thanks for the discussion too. We know this word WAS used for insulting people, and no ones use it anymore.

SPT · 2015-06-09 21:49:29

i dont think the best place to talk about being gay is on a childrens game
but ok

Sensei1, some woman

mrjawapa · 2015-06-09 23:06:41

Duck wrote:

i dont think the best place to talk about being gay is on a childrens game
but ok

Neither do we, but it doesn't hurt to uncensor it.

AmdS

2015-06-11 15:08:34

Uhh... I'm kinda homophobic...

Official Everybody Edits Forums

#51 2015-06-05 23:13:51

Re: Why is the word 'gay' in Everybody Edits is censored? Prejudice? -.-

#52 2015-06-06 00:06:26, last edited by rgl32 (2015-06-06 00:06:56)

Re: Why is the word 'gay' in Everybody Edits is censored? Prejudice? -.-

#53 2015-06-06 01:12:25

Re: Why is the word 'gay' in Everybody Edits is censored? Prejudice? -.-

#54 2015-06-06 01:21:47

Re: Why is the word 'gay' in Everybody Edits is censored? Prejudice? -.-

#55 2015-06-06 01:23:17, last edited by Anak (2015-06-06 01:25:19)

Re: Why is the word 'gay' in Everybody Edits is censored? Prejudice? -.-

#56 2015-06-06 01:53:18

Re: Why is the word 'gay' in Everybody Edits is censored? Prejudice? -.-

#57 2015-06-06 04:55:40

Re: Why is the word 'gay' in Everybody Edits is censored? Prejudice? -.-

#58 2015-06-06 12:57:19

Re: Why is the word 'gay' in Everybody Edits is censored? Prejudice? -.-

#59 2015-06-06 14:49:15

Re: Why is the word 'gay' in Everybody Edits is censored? Prejudice? -.-

#60 2015-06-06 15:02:30, last edited by Anak (2015-06-06 15:04:09)

Re: Why is the word 'gay' in Everybody Edits is censored? Prejudice? -.-

#61 2015-06-06 15:15:50

Re: Why is the word 'gay' in Everybody Edits is censored? Prejudice? -.-

#62 2015-06-06 15:28:08

Re: Why is the word 'gay' in Everybody Edits is censored? Prejudice? -.-

#63 2015-06-06 15:48:32

Re: Why is the word 'gay' in Everybody Edits is censored? Prejudice? -.-

#64 2015-06-06 16:05:57

Re: Why is the word 'gay' in Everybody Edits is censored? Prejudice? -.-

#65 2015-06-06 16:21:22

Re: Why is the word 'gay' in Everybody Edits is censored? Prejudice? -.-

#66 2015-06-06 17:31:47

Re: Why is the word 'gay' in Everybody Edits is censored? Prejudice? -.-

#67 2015-06-06 17:35:01

Re: Why is the word 'gay' in Everybody Edits is censored? Prejudice? -.-

#68 2015-06-09 11:36:27, last edited by Stagecrew (2015-06-09 11:50:17)

Re: Why is the word 'gay' in Everybody Edits is censored? Prejudice? -.-

#69 2015-06-09 15:59:40

Re: Why is the word 'gay' in Everybody Edits is censored? Prejudice? -.-

#70 2015-06-09 16:17:21

Re: Why is the word 'gay' in Everybody Edits is censored? Prejudice? -.-

#71 2015-06-09 19:55:38

Re: Why is the word 'gay' in Everybody Edits is censored? Prejudice? -.-

#72 2015-06-09 21:24:04, last edited by AmdS (2015-06-09 21:24:45)

Re: Why is the word 'gay' in Everybody Edits is censored? Prejudice? -.-

#73 2015-06-09 21:49:29, last edited by SPT (2015-06-09 21:49:56)

Re: Why is the word 'gay' in Everybody Edits is censored? Prejudice? -.-

#74 2015-06-09 23:06:41

Re: Why is the word 'gay' in Everybody Edits is censored? Prejudice? -.-

#75 2015-06-11 15:08:34

Re: Why is the word 'gay' in Everybody Edits is censored? Prejudice? -.-

Board footer