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Rhythm

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Re: Religion, islam and christianity. [SERIOUS TOPIC]

Dayum.

Who is catholic here?

I am.

Palm

Guest

Re: Religion, islam and christianity. [SERIOUS TOPIC]

I never thought the biggest troll in the world would post "SERIOUS TOPIC" EVERY FREAKIN DANG PLACE!
Every off topic , its always:SERIOUS TOPIC, NO JOKE: and stuff like that..

Tako

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From: Memphis, Tennessee, USA

Joined: 2015-08-10

Posts: 6,663

Website

Re: Religion, islam and christianity. [SERIOUS TOPIC]

The specific religion is worthless; whether you believe in a "God" or not is all that really matters.

Here's why I have a religion and believe in God: When I was young, probably 6 or 7, I asked for a sign. I had trouble just giving all my faith into something I wasn't convinced existed. The same month, I got what I had asked for.

Every time I looked at a clock it was all the same digit. (i.e. 1:11, 2:22, 3:33, 4:44 etc)

It happened for a good month. It wasn't EVERY time I looked at a clock, but it was the good three-fourths of the time.

Yes, people can say that that can happen to anybody. But the odds are just too overwhelming. Someone caused this.

Also, atheists believe there is no god. But what's the harm? Better safe then sorry. When I say sorry I mean sorry as in eternity in hell, your worst nightmares repeating itself forever.

Last edited by Tako (Mar 31 2011 8:48:24 pm)

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Yeah, well, you know that's just like, uh, your opinion, man.

Chewy

Banned

Re: Religion, islam and christianity. [SERIOUS TOPIC]

Also, atheists believe there is no god. But what's the harm? Better safe then sorry. When I say sorry I mean sorry as in eternity in hell, your worst nightmares repeating itself forever.

What **** me off the most is when people believe in God just so they don't go to Hell.

Tako

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From: Memphis, Tennessee, USA

Joined: 2015-08-10

Posts: 6,663

Website

Re: Religion, islam and christianity. [SERIOUS TOPIC]

Well, they will go to hell because they don't truly believe in God.

Better that then nothing, I suppose. If you go to church just for the no-hell, you might catch on and actually like it.

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Yeah, well, you know that's just like, uh, your opinion, man.

Watashii

Guest

Re: Religion, islam and christianity. [SERIOUS TOPIC]

I think this thread need a bump.
It seems to me that a lot of people is willing and want to discuss religion and other stuff related to it (Source: this thread). The discussion there did not quite "finish up", as the thread got closed as per OPs request in the middle of the discussion. So rather than creating a new thread about the same topic, let's just bump this one. Continue whatever was said in that other thread, and post your thought and reflections upon anything religion related in this thread.

Also, atheists believe there is no god. But what's the harm? Better safe then sorry. When I say sorry I mean sorry as in eternity in hell, your worst nightmares repeating itself forever.

That's not how belief works. You don't "choose" to believe in anything like that. Belief comes for a reason, not a choice. I can't personally believe that a creature such as God does exist, as I've never seen any evidence or have any other reason to believe that he exists. If God however did appear in front of me, or anything else showed up that is a clear proof of his existence, I would not be as close-minded/ignorant as to deny that fact, and admit that he does exist. That does however not mean that I will start worshiping him, which seems to be what he demands me to do.

___________

I saw that someone in that other religious thread I mentioned above denied Evolution. I've also seen plenty of other people denying it too. I think that everyone like that needs to check out this video made by the great Youtuber QualiaSoup:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vss1VKN2rf8[/youtube]

___________

@TGT:
I took some quotes from you in this thread and put them in this research paper I did on God several months ago in school. I hope that you did not mind that I did that. I think I forgot to ask if it was okay. I'm also going to translate some (in my opinion) interesting parts of that paper tomorrow and post it here, and hope that it will awake some sort of discussion.

Last edited by Watashii (Jun 25 2011 6:18:29 pm)

Twipply

Guest

Re: Religion, islam and christianity. [SERIOUS TOPIC]

Also, atheists believe there is no god. But what's the harm? Better safe then sorry. When I say sorry I mean sorry as in eternity in hell, your worst nightmares repeating itself forever.

Is that any more likely than a God who rewards the atheists/agnostics with eternity in heaven for their ability to think rationally/logically, and punishes the religious with hell?

Here's why I have a religion and believe in God: When I was young, probably 6 or 7, I asked for a sign. I had trouble just giving all my faith into something I wasn't convinced existed. The same month, I got what I had asked for.

Every time I looked at a clock it was all the same digit. (i.e. 1:11, 2:22, 3:33, 4:44 etc)

It happened for a good month. It wasn't EVERY time I looked at a clock, but it was the good three-fourths of the time.

Yes, people can say that that can happen to anybody. But the odds are just too overwhelming. Someone caused this.

What you've said can easily be explained with basic maths and some psychology.   Think it over with a clear mind and you'll hopefully get it.   You most definitely don't need a higher being for that.

Last edited by Twipply (Jun 25 2011 6:46:43 pm)

Lugnuts

Guest

Re: Religion, islam and christianity. [SERIOUS TOPIC]

TGT: Ahem...

(I am atheist)

treejoe4

Guest

Re: Religion, islam and christianity. [SERIOUS TOPIC]

Religion is not the problem its people, pretty much 90% of the planet are idiots so when you give them a religion they use it as a weapon. People fail to see the main religions are the same. Another problem is how radical muslims can be today, not as common in christians but they have done some bad things. In my opinion christianity is individual becoming nicer, but the chruch as a whole cannot be trusted. A lot of people higher than a priest are corrupted. Its a shame to see how people give their religion a bad name.

MIHB

Guest

Re: Religion, islam and christianity. [SERIOUS TOPIC]

Get them watashii!   Cast judgement on the heathen believers!

Tako

Member

From: Memphis, Tennessee, USA

Joined: 2015-08-10

Posts: 6,663

Website

Re: Religion, islam and christianity. [SERIOUS TOPIC]

Also, atheists believe there is no god. But what's the harm? Better safe then sorry. When I say sorry I mean sorry as in eternity in hell, your worst nightmares repeating itself forever.

Is that any more likely than a God who rewards the atheists/agnostics with eternity in heaven for their ability to think rationally/logically, and punishes the religious with hell?

Interesting POV, but a belief in a God that does the opposite with people after they die is the exact same as Buddhism, or any other religion for that matter. Why I believe Christianity is truth and Buddhism is not simply relies on the Bible.

Here's why I have a religion and believe in God: When I was young, probably 6 or 7, I asked for a sign. I had trouble just giving all my faith into something I wasn't convinced existed. The same month, I got what I had asked for.

Every time I looked at a clock it was all the same digit. (i.e. 1:11, 2:22, 3:33, 4:44 etc)

It happened for a good month. It wasn't EVERY time I looked at a clock, but it was the good three-fourths of the time.

Yes, people can say that that can happen to anybody. But the odds are just too overwhelming. Someone caused this.

What you've said can easily be explained with basic maths and some psychology.   Think it over with a clear mind and you'll hopefully get it.   You most definitely don't need a higher being for that.

Read the last sentence again. It could very well just be a coincidence, but the odds are too overwhelming for me.

---

Yeah, well, you know that's just like, uh, your opinion, man.

RavaTroll

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From: France

Joined: 2015-02-16

Posts: 820

Re: Religion, islam and christianity. [SERIOUS TOPIC]

/!\ Warning : This post might hurt your feelings if you're a believer. You don't have to read this. You'll have to blame yourself if your feelings have been hurt.

Let me ask you simple questions :
Let's admit god is almighty, knows everything, and is good.
God created satan : He created evil. Is he still good ?
If god didn't know satan would become evil, does he really know everything ?
If he knew it, and was really good, then he can't be almighty : he can't destroy evil.

Also, why does he act like a 2yo kid ? Why did he just cursed everyone for aeons because a poor guy who doesn't understand anything - aka no knowledge, he's as dumb as a rock ( who said D-rock ?! I know someone just did ! )- took an apple ? Wasn't he even supposed to know that ? Can't he create something perfect ? ( Aka a men who'll not desobey ? )

You guys should read this : http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist_ar … e_ch1.html

Also, men of power used the "almighty" god stuff to make war, to torture, to kill, to murder, to steal, to lie, to enslave. It sounds a lot like a satanist church for me.

And this is not a troll.

Here's why I have a religion and believe in God: When I was young, probably 6 or 7, I asked for a sign. I had trouble just giving all my faith into something I wasn't convinced existed. The same month, I got what I had asked for.

Every time I looked at a clock it was all the same digit. (i.e. 1:11, 2:22, 3:33, 4:44 etc)

It happened for a good month. It wasn't EVERY time I looked at a clock, but it was the good three-fourths of the time.

Yes, people can say that that can happen to anybody. But the odds are just too overwhelming. Someone caused this.

Ok, let's try this : Have you noticed you're the only one at home who change the finished toilet paper with a brand new one ?
Well, actually, you're not, but you don't remember the times you didn't change it, so in your mind, you feel like it happens only to you. Selective memory only remember specific non-routine events. ( Changing the toilet paper, unusual hour. )

It's exactly the same. You wanted to believe that this was a sign of god ( obviously ) and remembered only the times when this conforted you in your faith. You can ask psychologists, it's very common.

IE : You know the geeks always say 42 is THE answer, THE number. Well, some friends and I decided that 47 is cooler than 42, and since then, I keep seeing 47 everywhere.
That doesn't mean that there's a god.

Last edited by RavaTroll (Jun 25 2011 7:20:04 pm)

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Trolls be in da place, mon !

MIHB

Guest

Re: Religion, islam and christianity. [SERIOUS TOPIC]

It could very well just be a coincidence, but the odds are too overwhelming for me.

Actually, the odds were phenomenally high that you WOULD see something, independent of the presence of any deity sending you a message.

Human beings are designed for pattern recognition.   In statistics, there are two types of errors: Type 1 errors and Type 2 errors.

Type 1 errors are when the statistician looks at the data and concludes that there is a pattern, when in fact there is not a pattern.

Type 2 errors are when the statistician looks at the data and concludes there is NO pattern, when in fact there IS a pattern.

In academia, type 1 errors are considered more dangerous, because those errors will lead the researcher to a conclusion that is false, a conclusion that may lead him and other people down false roads, false beliefs, and time lost before people realize that the conclusion was false.   If he makes a type 2 error on the other hand, he'll look at other things instead, and sooner or later another researcher will find the truth.

However, in the real world, type 2 errors are far more dangerous, because humans generally have way more energy and time than they have knowledge.   Time spent pursuing false leads gets the human nowhere, but he was getting nowhere anyway.   But pursuing the correct leads will give the human huge advantages over his rivals.   The benefit to pursuing all leads that look reasonably true is greater than the drawback.   Thus humans see patterns everywhere, which explains tons of illogical behavior by humans, such as superstitions.

Getting back to your case, you didn't ask for a specific sign; you asked for ANY sign.   You were looking for a sign in a world where so much happens that all sorts of unlikely things happen by sheer coincidence.   You ignored all the random data and picked up on the data that supported your hypothesis: that God is sending you a sign.   Nevermind the fact that incredibly unlikely things happen all the time, but because we aren't looking for a specific reason for them and they don't have any immediate benefit to us, we ignore them.

Tako

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From: Memphis, Tennessee, USA

Joined: 2015-08-10

Posts: 6,663

Website

Re: Religion, islam and christianity. [SERIOUS TOPIC]

Whether it was selective memory or not, it was still an overwhelming probability. What are your odds of looking at a clock and seeing all the same digits? Let's find out.

1:11
2:22
3:33
4:44
5:55

5 total. Now let's see how many possible times there are. 60 minutes in an hour. 12 hours in a day. (AM/PM doesn't matter) 60x12=720. The odds of looking at a clock and seeing all the same digit is 0.7%. Even if I got my facts mixed up and actually saw random digits in between, it's still miraculous to see a large quantity of all-digit times.

Last edited by Tako (Jun 25 2011 7:34:27 pm)

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Yeah, well, you know that's just like, uh, your opinion, man.

Twipply

Guest

Re: Religion, islam and christianity. [SERIOUS TOPIC]

Whether it was selective memory or not, it was still an overwhelming probability. What are your odds of looking at a clock and seeing all the same digits? Let's find out.

1:11
2:22
3:33
4:44
5:55

5 total. Now let's see how many possible times there are. 60 minutes in an hour. 12 hours in a day. (AM/PM doens't matter) 60x12=720. The odds of looking at a clock and seeing all the same digit is 0.7%. Even if I got my facts mixed up and actually saw random digits in between, it's still miraculous to see a large quantity or all-digit times.

You're missing the point entirely.   The odds of what you saw are not overwhelming because it never happened.   RavaTroll and MIHB have both mentioned what I've been trying to find the exact term for since my first post, but perhaps these two links will be of use anyway.

Apophenia
Pareidolia

Last edited by Twipply (Jun 25 2011 7:44:06 pm)

RavaTroll

Member

From: France

Joined: 2015-02-16

Posts: 820

Re: Religion, islam and christianity. [SERIOUS TOPIC]

Remember that you have the right to believe in whatever you want.
We're just saying that this is not a proof, and I'm ( we're ? ) not going to tell you God doesn't exists.
I just don't believe in God. This is not a proof he doesn't exists either.

Oh, and the "3 questions" are from a philosophy teacher from "Lyon" ( France ) University. I loved them, because they're pointing out some of the weakness of the religion.

Last edited by RavaTroll (Jun 25 2011 7:44:55 pm)

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Trolls be in da place, mon !

Tako

Member

From: Memphis, Tennessee, USA

Joined: 2015-08-10

Posts: 6,663

Website

Re: Religion, islam and christianity. [SERIOUS TOPIC]

Whether it was selective memory or not, it was still an overwhelming probability. What are your odds of looking at a clock and seeing all the same digits? Let's find out.

1:11
2:22
3:33
4:44
5:55

5 total. Now let's see how many possible times there are. 60 minutes in an hour. 12 hours in a day. (AM/PM doens't matter) 60x12=720. The odds of looking at a clock and seeing all the same digit is 0.7%. Even if I got my facts mixed up and actually saw random digits in between, it's still miraculous to see a large quantity or all-digit times.

You're missing the point entirely.   The odds of what you saw are not overwhelming because it never happened.   RavaTroll and MIHB have both posted about what I've been trying to find the exact term for since my first post, but perhaps these two links will be of use anyway.

Apophenia
Pareidolia

It never happened? Lol.

So, lemme get this straight, you're claiming that my thoughts can overpower my eyes? If I think of something then I will see it? I find that hard to believe.

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Yeah, well, you know that's just like, uh, your opinion, man.

treejoe4

Guest

Re: Religion, islam and christianity. [SERIOUS TOPIC]

Im sorry takoman but the brain is VERY powerful, the eye sends signals to the brain which allows you to see. You can even not see things as the eye doesnt pick up things sometimes

Twipply

Guest

Re: Religion, islam and christianity. [SERIOUS TOPIC]

It never happened? Lol.

So, lemme get this straight, you're claiming that my thoughts can overpower my eyes? If I think of something then I will see it? I find that hard to believe.

That was a strange leap to take.   What I'm/we're saying is that you saw a pattern because you're programmed to, even though there most likely wasn't one.   Even if there was, it's far from reason to believe in a God.

Last edited by Twipply (Jun 25 2011 7:52:08 pm)

jj4

Guest

Re: Religion, islam and christianity. [SERIOUS TOPIC]

@thegreentroll you don't know much about God/Christianity, God doesn't do "revenge" the flood was to save human's from human's, we were going to go extinct, so he told Noah to build thee ark, and he told the people to "GET ON THEE ARK!!!!!" but they didn't listen, so the drowned, he did not use "revenge" God is not like that. @the moderators of this forum, close this topic, it seems that the maker of this topic is giving people the wrong information.

MIHB

Guest

Re: Religion, islam and christianity. [SERIOUS TOPIC]

Whether it was selective memory or not, it was still an overwhelming probability. What are your odds of looking at a clock and seeing all the same digits? Let's find out.

1:11
2:22
3:33
4:44
5:55

5 total. Now let's see how many possible times there are. 60 minutes in an hour. 12 hours in a day. (AM/PM doesn't matter) 60x12=720. The odds of looking at a clock and seeing all the same digit is 0.7%. Even if I got my facts mixed up and actually saw random digits in between, it's still miraculous to see a large quantity of all-digit times.

First, lets assume that you didn't see any random digits in between.   Even though this assumes that you never looked at the clock, ever, for the 14 hours a day that such number combinations are not possible.

This still doesn't prove anything.   Of course the odds were phenomenally low.   But what are the odds of winning the lottery?   Those are also phenomenally low, but people win all the time.   This is because, over a large enough number of tests, eventually you will get a positive outcome.

You didn't have a huge number of tests for clock times over that period when you were looking for a sign.   But you had a countless number of other tests.   You could just as easily have looked up while riding in the car 5 times and seen church signs each time.   The odds of that would have been phenomenally low as well, and been a stronger signal of a sign of God, wouldn't you think?   But that did not happen.   Alternatively you could have been riding your bike down the road and found a bible lying by the side.   Phenomenally unlikely, but I guarantee you it has happened to somebody out there.   Or you could have tripped and been helped up by some guy that looks vaguely like Jesus.   Or. . . Or. . . Or. . .   The point is that there are a million million things you could have seen that would have seemed to you like a sign, because you were looking for a sign, any sign.

Let me ask you this: Do you have the courage to ask God to send you a sign by making you only see those numbers for the next month?   And then be honest about whether or not you saw other numbers?

Twipply

Guest

Re: Religion, islam and christianity. [SERIOUS TOPIC]

@thegreentroll you don't know much about God/Christianity, God doesn't do "revenge" the flood was to save human's from human's, we were going to go extinct, so he told Noah to build thee ark, and he told the people to "GET ON THEE ARK!!!!!" but they didn't listen, so the drowned, he did not use "revenge" God is not like that. @the moderators of this forum, close this topic, it seems that the maker of this topic is giving people the wrong information.

Why would you rather close a topic that apparently has false information instead of correcting it and spreading knowledge, hmm?

I've never liked quoting the bible, as everything unarguable often ends up being a mistranslation or misunderstanding, but Romans 12:19 might want to have a word with you.

Tako

Member

From: Memphis, Tennessee, USA

Joined: 2015-08-10

Posts: 6,663

Website

Re: Religion, islam and christianity. [SERIOUS TOPIC]

It never happened? Lol.

So, lemme get this straight, you're claiming that my thoughts can overpower my eyes? If I think of something then I will see it? I find that hard to believe.

That was a strange leap to take.   What I'm/we're saying is that you saw a pattern because you're programmed to, even though there most likely wasn't one.   Even if there was, it's far from reason to believe in a God.

It doesn't matter how hard I think, I NEVER see the clock all-same-digit. Actually, I'll test that. Over the next week, I'm going to look at the clock very frequently and record each time. I'll tell you my results.

And, tbh, I have no idea why I said that was why I believed in God. I suppose it was a cheap excuse of an argument.

@MIHB: Yes, you have a point there. If I were too stack up all the possibilities of a "sign" then it would be bound to happen.

But, I say this again, this is not what my religion hinges on. It's getting us nowhere.

Last edited by Tako (Jun 25 2011 8:02:37 pm)

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Yeah, well, you know that's just like, uh, your opinion, man.

D-rock2308

Guest

Re: Religion, islam and christianity. [SERIOUS TOPIC]

Whether it was selective memory or not, it was still an overwhelming probability. What are your odds of looking at a clock and seeing all the same digits? Let's find out.

1:11
2:22
3:33
4:44
5:55

5 total. Now let's see how many possible times there are. 60 minutes in an hour. 12 hours in a day. (AM/PM doesn't matter) 60x12=720. The odds of looking at a clock and seeing all the same digit is 0.7%. Even if I got my facts mixed up and actually saw random digits in between, it's still miraculous to see a large quantity of all-digit times.

Pretty much every day of the week I see 9:11 am or pm on a clock, does that mean I should believe I'm going to get bombed? (Please don't take offense to this because I'm trying prove a point.)

MIHB

Guest

Re: Religion, islam and christianity. [SERIOUS TOPIC]

So, lemme get this straight, you're claiming that my thoughts can overpower my eyes? If I think of something then I will see it? I find that hard to believe.

You believe in an imaginary man who is all-powerful, all-knowing, whose very existence is paradoxical according to the various qualities Christianity ascribes to him.   However, you find it hard to believe that the images your brain processes can be processed differently depending upon the workings of the brain, even though the connection is right there.

Your brain is doing some mighty leaps right now, I see.