more people online before?!

Goldy301 · 2016-06-14 12:39:36

We could save it if we spread the game to everyone who hasn't played it.

Kangxp · 2016-06-14 13:27:04

Goldy301 wrote:

We could save it if we spread the game to everyone who hasn't played it.

Mylo wrote:

I can't recommend EE to my friends because I am ashamed of it.
At the moment it's a kids game - and it's a pretty bad one, tbh.

I guess we could if we solve that problem first?

Xfrogman43 · 2016-06-14 15:45:34

Kefka wrote:

Xfrogman43 wrote:
IMO, sandbox games aren't a hit these days.
Terraria...?

Isn't that like minecraft?

Plus, you can do a whole lot more in those two games than you can in this one.

MartenM · 2016-06-14 16:19:40

Xfrogman43 wrote:

IMO, sandbox games aren't a hit nowadays. Mainly shooters and the like.

There are tons of 'sandbox' like games that are played today. Steam has a huge crowd of people that like all sorts of games.
They aren't a hit. But, don't make them look like they are nothing these days because that's just stupid.

I think that steam can really help this game.

Still there needs to be more advertisement. Maybe ask some site's to place the game on their site? (just the normal EE version. Not something like kong)
We can't stop people leaving EE but we can try to make the game bigger by bringing in new players. Maybe even some adjustments to give new players a bit of a head start and give them things to come back for.

Napakeun

realmaster42 · 2016-06-14 17:36:17

Everybody Edits has always been a kids game. When I was way younger this game was my favourite, but nowadays it's just a hobby (for bots and stuff), because now the userbase is much lower than back in these days ("golden times").
EE has drastacally changed, when I first came in v0.0.8.6.5.0

hummerz5

N1KF · 2016-06-14 18:51:28

Mylo wrote:

Zoey2070 wrote:
[...] but there's also the fact that a lot of players have outgrown the game.
This is the main problem of EE. Replace smileys with little figures, make it a little bit more like a real game, a mature game.

Are you serious? Normally I don't say things like this, but this is the worst, most harmful serious suggestion I've ever seen to this game.

The game's icon is a smiley. Smileys provide the most expressive characters as possible, and by suggesting you remove them to make them "mature" you are sucking all personality or fun out of the game. Hey, lets replace Mario with a realistic runner with realistic physics so its more of a "mature game". Or, in your words, a "real game" since apparently changing smileys to figures is suddenly going to make the game "mature" even though stick figures in the first place are still kind of childish themselves. By replacing the smileys, not only is it going to waste the staff's time by having to create lots of animations and fix lots of bugs, but its not even make the game as better as you think. I've never seen people who criticize the game for having "smileys" (besides you and one another person ive seen on the forum—now that i think about it that person might have been you but im not sure), so I'm kind of doubtful that many people will join as a result. Additionally, if you want to make the game "mature", you would have to change lots of things. The game has many simple, colourful blocks, so we may as well make them look more realistic so its more "real" and "mature". The game is basically using a bunch of building blocks with your imagination and playing around with others, so the sheer concept of the game is childish. I gotta wonder why creating stuff in Minecraft is so popular... Oh wait, perhaps its because not everything has to be "real" and "mature" to be good? Just a thought.

I can't recommend EE to my friends because I am ashamed of it.
At the moment it's a kids game - and it's a pretty bad one, tbh.

You're ashamed of the game, simply because the characters are represented by 16×16 smileys? I cant see any reasons this would be the case besides insecurity of how "mature" you are. Why does such a small, trivial thing about the game bug you so much? Or do you have shallow friends that would instantly judge a game as bad when they realize its not "real" or "mature" (by your definitions)? If you think "maturity" is based off something as shallow as whether or not the characters look like smileys, then I think you have a bad definition of what "maturity" is. People of all ages, from children to adults can enjoy it. This game is what you make it. Sure, if you have no sort of imagination, or sense of fun, then it's a "childish" waste of time. Just like drawing, as well as video games in general can be enjoyed by children, they can also be enjoyed by adults.

There's a reason for this.

This game isn't a "kid's" game.

It's an everybody game.

Because EVERYBODY EDITS.

(also, you brought up the game being "bad", but im not sure how to respond to that since you didnt clarify why you thought that)

It lost over the years all the things it used to be (which is not always bad, but in most of the cases..)

There are three cycling aspects to the game: the staff, the game, and the community. The staff creates the game; the game brings in a community; the community supports the staff.

Which one is it, and why? I think its mostly the community.

TaskManager, kubapolish, MartenM, Anch, Swarth100

Abelysk · 2016-06-14 20:37:25

Xfrogman43 wrote:

Kefka wrote:
Xfrogman43 wrote:
IMO, sandbox games aren't a hit these days.
Terraria...?
Isn't that like minecraft?
Plus, you can do a whole lot more in those two games than you can in this one.

Besides the point. They're still sandboxes at core and that's what got MC and Terraria popular in the first place.

Xfrogman43 · 2016-06-14 20:48:23

Kefka wrote:

Xfrogman43 wrote:
Kefka wrote:
Xfrogman43 wrote:
IMO, sandbox games aren't a hit these days.
Terraria...?
Isn't that like minecraft?
Plus, you can do a whole lot more in those two games than you can in this one.
Besides the point. They're still sandboxes at core and that's what got MC and Terraria popular in the first place.

This game isn't that exciting. It's really boring

Mylo · 2016-06-14 20:57:10

( the post N1KF is responding to: click )

N1KF wrote:

Are you serious?

I am.

N1KF wrote:

and by suggesting you remove them to make them "mature" you are sucking all personality or fun out of the game.

Am I by suggesting? The smileys are the only thing which convey fun and personality of this game?

N1KF wrote:

changing smileys to figures is suddenly going to make the game "mature" even though stick figures in the first place are still kind of childish themselves.

Did I say stick figures? I said figures. Which leaves pretty much space - I thought of something like in Downwell, maybe.

N1KF wrote:

going to waste the staff's time by having to create lots of animations and fix lots of bugs

I hope they can code good enough to avoid bugs in first place. Also now that you say it, nice animations could really push the game forward. Eg. Clash Royale.

N1KF wrote:

I've never seen people who criticize the game for having "smileys" [...] so I'm kind of doubtful that many people will join as a result.

Maybe that's why you never saw people criticize the game for having smileys. Or maybe it's because no one has thought about it before. Who knows.

N1KF wrote:

The game has many simple, colourful blocks, so we may as well make them look more realistic so its more "real" and "mature".

Mature != Realistic. I said real in the context of "a true, worthy game" - cleaner, better thought through.

N1KF wrote:

The game is basically using a bunch of building blocks with your imagination and playing around with others, so the sheer concept of the game is childish

I don't think so. Imagination is not a childish thing. I would agree it's a simple, but good concept. Drawing isn't childish either, is it?

N1KF wrote:

I gotta wonder why creating stuff in Minecraft is so popular... Oh wait, perhaps its because not everything has to be "real" and "mature" to be good? Just a thought.

I think Minecraft is pretty mature. It had, when it was big, a clean UI - and tbh I never had a problem with recommending Minecraft.
Also it was at the beginning not aimed at 4/10-years-old kids. And it's not a freemium game.

N1KF wrote:

I cant see any reasons this would be the case besides insecurity of how "mature" you are.

You're getting kind of personal here. Seems like I hit a sweet spot on your personality. Anyways, I don't think I have to prove I am mature.

N1KF wrote:

Why does such a small, trivial thing about the game bug you so much?

I did not say it bugs me a lot. I just said it's one of the things why I won't recommend EE to friends or colleagues.

N1KF wrote:

Or do you have shallow friends that would instantly judge a game as bad when they realize its not "real" or "mature" (by your definitions)?

So, I can't say how old your friends are - I can only speak for my age group (16-20).
If my friends think a game is stupid, they won't spend their time on it. Why should they?
105% they won't be like "wow this seems to be a cool game", because it just isn't.

N1KF wrote:

People of all ages, from children to adults can enjoy it.

Yes, they can. But most of the older ones won't, as far as I experienced.

N1KF wrote:

Sure, if you have no sort of imagination, or sense of fun, then it's a "childish" waste of time.

People's taste differs. But for me - I am bored of EE, and without REAL friends Ingame I don't see any future in it.

N1KF wrote:

Just like drawing, as well as video games in general can be enjoyed by children, they can also be enjoyed by adults.

I agree.

N1KF wrote:

This game isn't a "kid's" game.

It is. And if you don't see it, you're somehow closing your eyes.
Ask people how old they are, and ask the older ones if they have REAL LIFE friends inside.
Oh - and pay attention to the way people use the chat.

N1KF wrote:

It lost over the years all the things it used to be (which is not always bad, but in most of the cases..)
There are three cycling aspects to the game: the staff, the game, and the community. The staff creates the game; the game brings in a community; the community supports the staff.
Which one is it, and why? I think its mostly the community.

That's just a fact. At the beginning (if you can remember) it (Minecraft) was about open worlds, pushing your worlds to the top, keeping them alive etc. etc.

Please take a second, after reading a post where you don't agree with the opinion of the author. You don't have to get personal.
It's always better to (at least) try to be rational when trying to find the reason of a problem and responding to something which might have offended you.
I tried to find out where I see the reason of EE fading - and even if you might not like it - it could be true.

N1KF · 2016-06-14 22:01:18

Mylo wrote:

N1KF wrote:
and by suggesting you remove them to make them "mature" you are sucking all personality or fun out of the game.
Am I by suggesting? The smileys are the only thing which convey fun and personality of this game?

You seem to suggest that removing smileys would make the game more "real" or "mature". By suggesting that making it more "real" or "mature" is a good thing, it seemed as if you meant "mature" as in "more serious" which as a consequence means "less fun". Perhaps this was an exaggeration, but my other point still stands—smileys were one of the unique quirks about this game, so by removing them, you are lowering the "personality" of it.

N1KF wrote:
going to waste the staff's time by having to create lots of animations and fix lots of bugs
I hope they can code good enough to avoid bugs in first place. Also now that you say it, nice animations could really push the game forward. Eg. Clash Royale.

You have to consider that they would have to do this with every single smiley (unless they removed some, which would do more harm than good). This would take lots of time and energy that would probably better be put to use in other areas of the game. The time and effort could also be used to advertise people to the game who don't just base their opinions of the game purely on how the characters are represented.

N1KF wrote:
The game has many simple, colourful blocks, so we may as well make them look more realistic so its more "real" and "mature".
Mature != Realistic.

So why do you think replacing smileys with figures will help make the game more "mature"?

N1KF wrote:
The game is basically using a bunch of building blocks with your imagination and playing around with others, so the sheer concept of the game is childish
I don't think so. Imagination is not a childish thing. I would agree it's a simple, but good concept. Drawing isn't childish either, is it?

I suppose "childish" was not the right word. Perhaps "childlike". Either way, trying to make the game more "mature" kind of misses the point.

N1KF wrote:
I gotta wonder why creating stuff in Minecraft is so popular... Oh wait, perhaps its because not everything has to be "real" and "mature" to be good? Just a thought.
I think Minecraft is pretty mature. It had, when it was big, a clean UI - and tbh I never had a problem with recommending Minecraft.
Also it was at the beginning not aimed at 4/10-years-old kids.

You seem to say that its not aimed at 4/10-year-olds as if thats an advantage Minecraft has over Everybody Edits. To be honest, Ive never really seen the game at "aiming" towards anybody, so unless I'm misinterpreting things, I would like to hear more about what you think about this.

N1KF wrote:
I cant see any reasons this would be the case besides insecurity of how "mature" you are.
You're getting kind of personal here. Seems like I hit a sweet spot on your personality. Anyways, I don't think I have to prove I am mature.

I wasnt trying to say you were immature. I just thought that it was a possibility, and perhaps by saying that, I may perhaps provide something to ponder about yourself. Perhaps that was too personal, but when I see people (not referring to you) who immediately toss something away for being childlike, it bugs me.

N1KF wrote:
Why does such a small, trivial thing about the game bug you so much?
I did not say it bugs me a lot. I just said it's one of the things why I won't recommend EE to friends or colleagues.

Perhaps "bugs you" was not the right way to phrase it. I was trying to get the point across that it was significant enough to encourage you not to recommend this game. Now that you phrase it as "one of the things", you make it sound more minor than I initially thought.

N1KF wrote:
Or do you have shallow friends that would instantly judge a game as bad when they realize its not "real" or "mature" (by your definitions)?
So, I can't say how old your friends are - I can only speak for my age group (16-20).

I dont have any real life friends myself, so maybe I am just putting people to unrealistic expectations. idk though

If my friends think a game is stupid, they won't spend their time on it. Why should they?
105% they won't be like "wow this seems to be a cool game", because it just isn't.

If the game think the game is stupid, perhaps its less-so a problem of the smileys, and more-so a problem of the game in general. Characters being smileys are one in many potential reasons why people may avoid the game. Removing smileys brings many problems, and I think the advantage of bringing in the few people that suddenly think the game is "cool" is not enough to make up for it.

N1KF wrote:
This game isn't a "kid's" game.
It is. And if you don't see it, you're somehow closing your eyes.
Ask people how old they are, and ask the older ones if they have REAL LIFE friends inside.
Oh - and pay attention to the way people use the chat.

You're referring to the community, not the game itself. I've never seen any clear indication that the staff intentionally directed the game towards children (perhaps besides certain rules as well as the former chat payment, but these are more-so an "all-ages" type of thing I think). The type of sandbox gameplay may attract children, but that doesn't suddenly make it a children's game.

N1KF wrote:
It lost over the years all the things it used to be (which is not always bad, but in most of the cases..)
There are three cycling aspects to the game: the staff, the game, and the community. The staff creates the game; the game brings in a community; the community supports the staff.
Which one is it, and why? I think its mostly the community.
That's just a fact. At the beginning (if you can remember) it was about open worlds, pushing your worlds to the top, keeping them alive etc. etc.

I imagine some of this would be brought back, since the staff plan to revamp open/unsaved worlds. Either way I dont have much to comment on this since its kind of unrelated to the rest of the post and doesnt explain much.

Please take a second, after reading a post where you don't agree with the opinion of the author. You don't have to get personal.
It's always better to (at least) try to be rational when trying to find the reason of a problem and responding to something which might have offended you.

Perhaps a few things I said were in a slightly unnecessarily aggressive manner. Even then, I still agree with most of what I said, and I think most of what I said is "rational" as I gave my reasoning behind what I think.

Bimps · 2016-06-14 22:01:44

ee is dead

Lictor666 · 2016-06-14 23:45:18

Bimps wrote:

ee is dead

Then leave it.

MBlood · 2016-06-14 23:54:32

Lictor666 wrote:

Bimps wrote:
ee is dead
Then leave it.

Why not wait for Unity

MartenM

Lictor666 · 2016-06-15 00:01:22

MBlood wrote:

Lictor666 wrote:
Bimps wrote:
ee is dead
Then leave it.
Why not wait for Unity

The community is like a hot-air balloon, to go up, we need to get rid of unnecessary weight.

Abelysk · 2016-06-15 00:08:38

Xfrogman43 wrote:

Kefka wrote:
Xfrogman43 wrote:
Kefka wrote:
Xfrogman43 wrote:
IMO, sandbox games aren't a hit these days.
Terraria...?
Isn't that like minecraft?
Plus, you can do a whole lot more in those two games than you can in this one.
Besides the point. They're still sandboxes at core and that's what got MC and Terraria popular in the first place.
This game isn't that exciting. It's really boring

That's subjective. I find it exciting whenever I find a new unique map (new co-op, new type of gameplay, etc).

You've played EE for six years. Of course you'd find it boring after playing for so long.

TaskManager, MartenM

skullz17 · 2016-06-15 20:18:49

Kefka wrote:

I find it exciting whenever I find a new unique map (new co-op, new type of gameplay, etc).

Which is far too rare if that's the only thing in the game that can excite you...

imo the lobby just sucks. The game is just boring and monotonous for players who don't build levels. The lobby is the main part of having fun in EE, it is the playing of levels, and yet it's crap. The featured tab was good imo, because it was a kind of quality control, the problem was that certain levels were on there which didn't deserve it. Also, it wasn't consistent. But then nobody put an effort into bringing it back, and an emphasis was put on consistent, good quality updates. Which is good, since the lack of updates was the reason for EE dying, but now it's important to consider our other priorities.

We can think of the community as being divided into the staff, creators and consumers. Some component of this system is not functioning properly. I think the staff are doing enough by putting out great updates, and it's not likely that the consumers are doing anything wrong because they're just consuming, so it seems to depend on the creators. Perhaps a large problem is a lack of motivation. One reason why contests are so good is because they motivate people to make levels. However, who's organising the contests? Certainly not the creators. Well, it's the staff most of the time, however it's not just the staff that can organise contests, so we can create a new subgroup of people called motivators (I know it's not a good name but I can't think of anything better). These people are defined as consumers who have an influence on the content they consume. We can see that (some) creators are dependent on others to motivate them. So can we still say that creators are the single component which is not functioning? No, of course not.

You all probably understand the concept that the components of our community are all interdependent. But I think of it like this: it is the creators and consumers that are dependent on each other, however a motivator can act as an external force. So, I think we need motivators to intervene if we want the lobby to be good again. As mentioned earlier, motivators can organise contests, but that's not the only thing. Something that was also mentioned earlier was the featured tab. I think the featured tab takes the role of a critic, but they are not exactly a consumer, nor are they a creator. Yet they have influence on both. We could just have ordinary critics, but I do not expect all of the community to spend their time reading long reviews to decide whether a level is good or not (although I don't discourage writing these), so I think the featured tab is a nice alternative. Another alternative which I've thought about is a feature where you could leave little comments in a level which the owner can see. This would not help the consumer, but it would help the creator to improve their content through the feedback. I think these are similar to reviews, except they would be an in-game feature and linked to a specific level, so the owner of that level would be likely to read them. Also, there should be a character limit, which I think will also increase the likelihood of the owner reading it. I think I mentioned this in a previous post, but I think another reason this feature would be good is because the main ways to receive feedback on a level is either in the chat in-game, or from the forums. The problem with receiving it in-game through the chat is that it is unreliable, as the owner may not always be there, or they might be afk. The problem with the forums is that not everyone uses the forums. This feature would offer a reliable platform for feedback that is accessible to everyone.

MartenM, kubapolish, N1KF, Kikikan, iPwner

N1KF · 2016-06-15 21:27:03

skullz17 wrote:

Another alternative which I've thought about is a feature where you could leave little comments in a level which the owner can see. This would not help the consumer, but it would help the creator to improve their content through the feedback. I think these are similar to reviews, except they would be an in-game feature and linked to a specific level, so the owner of that level would be likely to read them. Also, there should be a character limit, which I think will also increase the likelihood of the owner reading it. I think I mentioned this in a previous post, but I think another reason this feature would be good is because the main ways to receive feedback on a level is either in the chat in-game, or from the forums. The problem with receiving it in-game through the chat is that it is unreliable, as the owner may not always be there, or they might be afk. The problem with the forums is that not everyone uses the forums. This feature would offer a reliable platform for feedback that is accessible to everyone.

Or, we could always implement a game/forum integration thing that would make it easier to post level topics on the forum. Don't rush me I'll make a topic about it some day I promise

imgood9 · 2016-06-15 21:40:17

Zoey2070 wrote:

maxi123 wrote:
Kirby wrote:
IamJoranasC wrote:
Dude. Everybody Edits never die. Just see after 5 years. And what will happen.
Players was less because timezone and players going to school or work.
2000-3000 players to 50-250 aren't because of time zones or work bud
there was never 2000-3000 players online simultaneously
http://i.imgur.com/CqVqL7Q.png
from april 2011

so, YES, EE's userbase has decreased drastically. i'd say that it's because of the Great Summer Vacation where we didn't have any updates for a year, but there's also the fact that a lot of players have outgrown the game.

God damn I miss the days of 1k+ players. Those were good times, save for the year of no updates and the current slow, painful death of the game.

Coolguy789t · 2016-06-16 09:48:19

@prodigy

Have you been in the "Summer Girl Update"? EE was stuck on the update for a long long time, eventually, alot of players quit but ahead of time when EE got updates again, EE came back to life...

Website? It's a game "powered" on a website.

Kikikan · 2016-06-16 13:17:05

Well, I have to admit that most of the teenager gamers don't even go near a Flash game. (E.x. most of my friends)
The people, who want to build will play Minecraft.
The people, who want to play maps will play Minecraft.

Why Minecraft? Because everyone plays it, everyone knows what it is.

What happened to most of EE's players?
-They changed to Minecraft, Terraria or whatever else
-They left because EE is monotonous
-Grown-up

The only thing which keeps me here is C#. Nothing else.

jbbill · 2016-06-16 13:18:56

1: this seems kinda like a debate
2: Steam has way high sandbox games which are too popular people are constantly shifting choosing etc especially the free games
3: Popular games like sandboxes: terraria stardew valley for that matter even GTA 4 is sandbox as you can do whatever you like vibe from it albeit its more for a mature audience
4: Now we are lucky to see 20 people in a room.. this year max ive seen is 40
5: If ee gets on more websites it will possibly get more popular perhaps? and especially steam steam will add atleast 50 people per day

MartenM

TaskManager · 2016-06-16 14:14:39

Kikikan wrote:

most of the teenager gamers don't even go near a Flash game.

this is true, the flash games are going extinct and after the transition happens the fact that EE runs on unity might bring in more players

hummerz5 · 2016-06-16 14:21:41

maxi123 wrote:

Kikikan wrote:
most of the teenager gamers don't even go near a Flash game.
this is true, the flash games are going extinct and after the transition happens the fact that EE runs on unity might bring in more players

most of the teenagers I know don't even touch a computer. It's all the xBox 720's and the playtrainstation 5's

Obviously no one wants to put EE on those platforms, so... actually I don't know if I've ever heard someone IRL say "steam" when referring to the store thing.

MartenM · 2016-06-16 16:42:20

hummerz5 wrote:

most of the teenagers I know don't even touch a computer. It's all the xBox 720's and the playtrainstation 5's

You have PC gamers and consol gamers. Those will always be the main 2 platforms I think.
I do not know where you live but everybody here still knows what a computer is...

I am a PC gamer and STEAM is the way the play my games. If a game is not on steam I usually add it using 'add-non steam product' (Did this with ee too). Many, Many games have been released on steam. Some are not played that much but many get some extra attention. Factorio for example was only purchasable from their site. After the steam release their server traffic DOUBLED.

EE isn't dead yet, but whit a community that rather calls this game dead than come up with solutions to the problem will not help at all. Better give some suggestions to get new players in because we can all see that the playercount is not that high at the moment. I think that the steam release/unity will really give EE a boost. And if not we can always say: 'atleast we tried'. Because the negative stuff here on the forums is just annoying. Maybe we can try to get EE featured on some sites (kong?) with the idea of EE remasterd in unity.

Napakeun, N1KF

Abelysk · 2016-06-17 00:17:33

skullz17 wrote:

Which is far too rare if that's the only thing in the game that can excite you...

It isnt the only thing. New things excite me, and they aren't all that rare.

It's fun making your own worlds, especially with friends. Its fun thinking up of new ideas and pouring your soul into making it into a reality. EE isn't all about playing worlds off the lobby. In fact, building is more the aim of EE than playing worlds themselves. Even the Energy shop is doing nothing but expanding the library of building tools.

Official Everybody Edits Forums

#26 2016-06-14 12:39:36

Re: more people online before?!

#27 2016-06-14 13:27:04

Re: more people online before?!

#28 2016-06-14 15:45:34

Re: more people online before?!

#29 2016-06-14 16:19:40, last edited by MartenM (2016-06-14 16:20:06)

Re: more people online before?!

#30 2016-06-14 17:36:17

Re: more people online before?!

#31 2016-06-14 18:51:28

Re: more people online before?!

#32 2016-06-14 20:37:25

Re: more people online before?!

#33 2016-06-14 20:48:23

Re: more people online before?!

#34 2016-06-14 20:57:10, last edited by Mylo (2016-06-14 21:04:15)

Re: more people online before?!

#35 2016-06-14 22:01:18

Re: more people online before?!

#36 2016-06-14 22:01:44

Re: more people online before?!

#37 2016-06-14 23:45:18

Re: more people online before?!

#38 2016-06-14 23:54:32

Re: more people online before?!

#39 2016-06-15 00:01:22

Re: more people online before?!

#40 2016-06-15 00:08:38, last edited by Abelysk (2016-06-15 00:09:14)

Re: more people online before?!

#41 2016-06-15 20:18:49

Re: more people online before?!

#42 2016-06-15 21:27:03

Re: more people online before?!

#43 2016-06-15 21:40:17

Re: more people online before?!

#44 2016-06-16 09:48:19, last edited by Coolguy789t (2016-06-16 09:48:45)

Re: more people online before?!

#45 2016-06-16 13:17:05

Re: more people online before?!

#46 2016-06-16 13:18:56

Re: more people online before?!

#47 2016-06-16 14:14:39

Re: more people online before?!

#48 2016-06-16 14:21:41

Re: more people online before?!

#49 2016-06-16 16:42:20

Re: more people online before?!

#50 2016-06-17 00:17:33

Re: more people online before?!

Board footer