Official Everybody Edits Forums

rocktheworld313

Guest

Re: The cost of spikes

Hazards < Portals.

We might be comparing apples to oranges, but we're comparing a million oranges to an apple core.

Bobithan

Member

Joined: 2015-02-15

Posts: 4,476

Re: The cost of spikes

To all the people throwing out the argument about spikes being cheaper than portals, that does not matter. Portals are fine when used in small quantities. They are used to quickly transport a smiley from one place to another without annoying tunnels and arrows everywhere. With spikes, you are probably going to use them in very large quantities.
Personally I think spikes are a great alternative to portals. Their hitbox is ~1/2 of a portal which makes great for precision minigames, and when you die your ghost ragdoll thing has a second of momentum, which is able to collect anything, even checkpoints.
Sure you get spikes faster than portals, but it's still hella slow.

Portals were often used as spikes before.   If spikes are too expensive, where are all the topics about portals being too expensive?   Why is it people only complain when something is made cheaper?

Before you could get 6 "spike" portals a week.   No complaints.

Now you can get 40 actual spikes a week.   Complaints.

You just got 70% off of portals used as spikes and that's terrible apparently.   You can pay 1000 energy and replace 10 portals on your map with spikes, and can use those portals for other things in the world now.   1000 energy saves 10 portals.   1000 energy saves 6250 energy.   Before you had to pay 6250, but now it's reduced to 1000.   And this is awful I guess, some how.

Typical spike deathtrap:

Typical portal deathtrap:

There's a difference.

Also sorry about the horrible cropping job.

Last edited by Bobithan (Dec 25 2012 10:51:14 am)

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aka towwl

rocktheworld313

Guest

Re: The cost of spikes

False. You could just as easily use one spike and all those arrows in the same manner as the bottom picture.

Persona

Guest

Re: The cost of spikes

False. You could just as easily use one spike and all those arrows in the same manner as the bottom picture.

But it doesn't look asthetically pleasing.   I question why there is a argument over why we should use portals over spikes...

Either way, I think spikes are too dang expensive.

AzurePudding

Guest

Re: The cost of spikes

To all the people throwing out the argument about spikes being cheaper than portals, that does not matter. Portals are fine when used in small quantities. They are used to quickly transport a smiley from one place to another without annoying tunnels and arrows everywhere. With spikes, you are probably going to use them in very large quantities.
Personally I think spikes are a great alternative to portals. Their hitbox is ~1/2 of a portal which makes great for precision minigames, and when you die your ghost ragdoll thing has a second of momentum, which is able to collect anything, even checkpoints.
Sure you get spikes faster than portals, but it's still hella slow.

Portals were often used as spikes before.   If spikes are too expensive, where are all the topics about portals being too expensive?   Why is it people only complain when something is made cheaper?

Before you could get 6 "spike" portals a week.   No complaints.

Now you can get 40 actual spikes a week.   Complaints.

You just got 70% off of portals used as spikes and that's terrible apparently.   You can pay 1000 energy and replace 10 portals on your map with spikes, and can use those portals for other things in the world now.   1000 energy saves 10 portals.   1000 energy saves 6250 energy.   Before you had to pay 6250, but now it's reduced to 1000.   And this is awful I guess, some how.

Typical spike deathtrap:
http://i.imgur.com/wJhbX.png
Typical portal deathtrap:
http://i.imgur.com/Dxd6i.png

There's a difference.

Also sorry about the horrible cropping job.

You need 2 portals for the trap to work.   That's 1300 energy.   10 spikes and a checkpoint cost 1250 altogether.

Also you could just use the arrow idea and use one spike.   But even using all of them, that's cheaper than 2 portals.

There's a difference.

Master1

Member

From: Crait

Joined: 2015-02-15

Posts: 4,452

Re: The cost of spikes

Portals were often used as spikes before.   If spikes are too expensive, where are all the topics about portals being too expensive?   Why is it people only complain when something is made cheaper?

Before you could get 6 "spike" portals a week.   No complaints.

Now you can get 40 actual spikes a week.   Complaints.

You just got 70% off of portals used as spikes and that's terrible apparently.   You can pay 1000 energy and replace 10 portals on your map with spikes, and can use those portals for other things in the world now.   1000 energy saves 10 portals.   1000 energy saves 6250 energy.   Before you had to pay 6250, but now it's reduced to 1000.   And this is awful I guess, some how.

Typical spike deathtrap:
http://i.imgur.com/wJhbX.png
Typical portal deathtrap:
http://i.imgur.com/Dxd6i.png

There's a difference.

Also sorry about the horrible cropping job.

You need 2 portals for the trap to work.   That's 1300 energy.   10 spikes and a checkpoint cost 1250 altogether.

Also you could just use the arrow idea and use one spike.   But even using all of them, that's cheaper than 2 portals.

There's a difference.

Notice how small his example was? Do you really think it would cost that much if your minigame room was bigger? say 20 blocks wide. Then you have 250+2000 for spikes and a respawn which is 2250. Then 1300 for portals. So now you spent more on spikes. Portals are cheaper.

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AzurePudding

Guest

Re: The cost of spikes

Typical spike deathtrap:
http://i.imgur.com/wJhbX.png
Typical portal deathtrap:
http://i.imgur.com/Dxd6i.png

There's a difference.

Also sorry about the horrible cropping job.

You need 2 portals for the trap to work.   That's 1300 energy.   10 spikes and a checkpoint cost 1250 altogether.

Also you could just use the arrow idea and use one spike.   But even using all of them, that's cheaper than 2 portals.

There's a difference.

Notice how small his example was? Do you really think it would cost that much if your minigame room was bigger? say 20 blocks wide. Then you have 250+2000 for spikes and a respawn which is 2250. Then 1300 for portals. So now you spent more on spikes. Portals are cheaper.

Okay.

Now use one spike with arrows and a checkpoint.   That's 350 (spending 1250 for the 10 spikes) which is still cheaper than two portals.   Though after using that one spike, you can make 9 more minis using one spike each, and having to spend 250 per mini for the checkpoint.   For portals, you'd have to spend 1300 per mini.

Spikes are cheaper.

Last edited by AzurePudding (Dec 25 2012 3:29:17 pm)

maegor

Guest

Re: The cost of spikes

can someone tell me why spikes, coindoors, portals and stuff ... BE LIMITED?

AzurePudding

Guest

Re: The cost of spikes

can someone tell me why spikes, coindoors, portals and stuff ... BE LIMITED?

For more money.

It's really not all that bad, though, unless you want to make one of those worlds mostly made of coin doors.   You'd either need BC or spend all energy for a couple months on them.

Different55

Forum Admin

Joined: 2015-02-07

Posts: 16,575

Re: The cost of spikes

MrShoe probably did that to force people to buy the Builders' Club. And he said that lava will come to EE too, so if spikes are a limited item, then lava will be too.

He just wants money.

Whole builders club is just pure greed.

To compare the 10 bucks / month with a usual subscription based MMO you get.. less and just less.

EE has no customer support,
EE has no fixed rule set,
EE has a community which cannot chat with each other,
EE has a developer not talking to the community,
a usual MMO has

Customer Support,
Chat for everyone,
frequent and good content updates
developers talking to the community

All things EE won't ever have with its current developer.
Also the player count at prime time dropped from 1300 to 800 as I last checked.
Furthermore MrShoe is baning people by random or by simple complains received by his slave servants I do not name here, but they are mostly know for their own promotion of being a liason to MrShoe.

He's randomly banning people? Dang, the nub is getting nubbier and nubbier.

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"Sometimes failing a leap of faith is better than inching forward"
- ShinsukeIto

AzurePudding

Guest

Re: The cost of spikes

To all the people throwing out the argument about spikes being cheaper than portals, that does not matter. Portals are fine when used in small quantities. They are used to quickly transport a smiley from one place to another without annoying tunnels and arrows everywhere. With spikes, you are probably going to use them in very large quantities.
Personally I think spikes are a great alternative to portals. Their hitbox is ~1/2 of a portal which makes great for precision minigames, and when you die your ghost ragdoll thing has a second of momentum, which is able to collect anything, even checkpoints.
Sure you get spikes faster than portals, but it's still hella slow.

Portals were often used as spikes before.   If spikes are too expensive, where are all the topics about portals being too expensive?   Why is it people only complain when something is made cheaper?

Before you could get 6 "spike" portals a week.   No complaints.

Now you can get 40 actual spikes a week.   Complaints.

You just got 70% off of portals used as spikes and that's terrible apparently.   You can pay 1000 energy and replace 10 portals on your map with spikes, and can use those portals for other things in the world now.   1000 energy saves 10 portals.   1000 energy saves 6250 energy.   Before you had to pay 6250, but now it's reduced to 1000.   And this is awful I guess, some how.

Typical spike deathtrap:
http://i.imgur.com/wJhbX.png
Typical portal deathtrap:
http://i.imgur.com/Dxd6i.png

There's a difference.

Also sorry about the horrible cropping job.

Here- I made a more fair comparison.   Hopefully this will clear things up more for people complaining about the price of spikes.

You forgot a portal in your portal deathtrap.   You need two portals which totals up to 1300 energy with using these arrows.  

Here is a more fair spike trap to compare to your portal one, which also uses arrows.   This totals up to 350 energy, or 1250 energy for all the unused spikes.

1300 total for the portal one versus 1250 for the spikes, with a checkpoint.   This is cheaper, but not by much.   However, you can make 9 more minis using one spike each, with a cost of 250 per mini.   if you used portals instead, you would have to pay 1300 for each additional mini.
Let's say you wanted to make 10 minis.

Using portals: 650(portal cost) x 2(for each mini) x 10(amount of minis) = 13,000 energy

Using spikes + checkpoints: 1000(spike cost) + 250(checkpoint cost) x 10 (amount of minis) = 1000 + 2500 = 3,500 energy.

If you went with portals, you would be spending almost ten thousand extra energy for 10 basic minis.
But let's say you want to place all spikes/portals on the ground for aesthetics.   For one mini..

Using portals: 650(portal cost) x 11(10 to line floor, 1 for respawn) = 7,050

Using spikes + checkpoint: 1000(spike cost) + 250(checkpoint cost) = 1,250

That's almost 6,000 more energy per mini.

For death traps, spikes   are much cheaper than portals, along with resets for music levels.   Portals do have more uses which is why they cost more, but for the use of death traps, spikes are far cheaper.
Plus you get to see people turn into fireworks which is mildly amusing.

Koto

Member

Joined: 2015-02-18

Posts: 3,269

Re: The cost of spikes

I'm not going to quote, but I am responding to the post above.
People would not complain about the amount of spike amounts, were it not for three reasons:

1. There are alot more updates, now, then there were when portals were introduced, you could build upon them faster.

2. More hazards ARE coming.   MrShoe told us to expect lava to come out soon, which is more than likely going to have a limited quantity as well.   After that, you really don't expect them to only have two hazards, right?   We will, very likely, get quite a few of them, all of which, will probably have limited quantities.   There's only been one type of portal, this long after it's introduction.

3. Builders club.   Everyone that has beta, has builders club.   Yes, you can get rid of it, but alot of people will want to use that month, to take advantage of it.   Afterwards, they will have to start at 0 spikes.   That's about 4 updates away.   Three different block-type items, came out last week, which non of these people will have, two of which have limited quantities.

Last edited by KingOfTheOzone (Dec 26 2012 1:02:53 am)

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AzurePudding

Guest

Re: The cost of spikes

I'm not going to quote, but I am responding to the post above.
People would not complain about the amount of spike amounts, were it not for three reasons:

1. There are alot more updates, now, then there were when portals were introduced, you could build upon them faster.

2. More hazards ARE coming.   MrShoe told us to expect lava to come out soon, which is more than likely going to have a limited quantity as well.   After that, you really don't expect them to only have two hazards, right?   We will, very likely, get quite a few of them, all of which, will probably have limited quantities.   There's only been one type of portal, this long after it's introduction.

3. Builders club.   Everyone that has beta, has builders club.   Yes, you can get rid of it, but alot of people will want to use that month, to take advantage of it.   Afterwards, they will have to start at 0 spikes.   That's about 4 updates away.   Three different block-type items, came out last week, which non of these people will have, two of which have limited quantities.

1.) This is true, however you do not need spieks for good levels, nor do you need a lot.   As you are saving up, you can place one and use gravity arrows to guide you to it, or place spikes every few blocks with arrows between them.  

2.) If more limited hazards are going to be added, then you can spend the energy on the ones you want, just like with packs.   You don't need all packs, only the ones you want.

3.) I made up over a year's worth of updates within about 3 months.   To make up for one month shouldn't take too long, plus with all the extra spikes/portals that were used during BC.

For simple death traps, spikes are more affordable, and are more fitting in most places than a glowing, shiny portal.   But if we're going off of assumptions, there could be new portals to come as well.
Btw, I'm not really arguing against you as I see those points.

green_meklar

Guest

Re: The cost of spikes

I concur that the spikes are too expensive.

Spikes were something Everybody Edits needed for a very long time. The gravity and boost hazards, however cleverly designed, were always a crude technology. Spikes had the potential to make those essentially obsolete. But if players can't buy enough of them to properly decorate a large level, then we're just back to the gravity and boost hazards again. The spikes are, by their nature, something that work best when there's a whole lot of them. Making them so expensive kinda ruins the point of that.

The weird thing is that, by comparison, the checkpoints are actually really cheap. Less than half the price of portals, and only 2.5 times as expensive as a single spike. That's kind of ridiculous. In terms of their usage in a level (and with respect to the cost of portals), it would make a great deal of sense to simply switch the prices of the checkpoints and the spikes.

Moreover, this is not just an issue for the person building the level, but also the person playing the level: The fast response of the spikes is less likely to frustrate the player than the relatively slow response of the gravity and boost hazards (especially when they just point into a single spike anyway).

Koto

Member

Joined: 2015-02-18

Posts: 3,269

Re: The cost of spikes

I concur that the spikes are too expensive.

Spikes were something Everybody Edits needed for a very long time. The gravity and boost hazards, however cleverly designed, were always a crude technology. Spikes had the potential to make those essentially obsolete. But if players can't buy enough of them to properly decorate a large level, then we're just back to the gravity and boost hazards again. The spikes are, by their nature, something that work best when there's a whole lot of them. Making them so expensive kinda ruins the point of that.

The weird thing is that, by comparison, the checkpoints are actually really cheap. Less than half the price of portals, and only 2.5 times as expensive as a single spike. That's kind of ridiculous. In terms of their usage in a level (and with respect to the cost of portals), it would make a great deal of sense to simply switch the prices of the checkpoints and the spikes.

Moreover, this is not just an issue for the person building the level, but also the person playing the level: The fast response of the spikes is less likely to frustrate the player than the relatively slow response of the gravity and boost hazards (especially when they just point into a single spike anyway).

I, actually, really like this post.   I think it would be better if you, say, got 50 spikes for 1000 energy, although, getting an unlimited amount would be better.

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hummerz5

Member

From: wait I'm not a secret mod huh

Joined: 2015-08-10

Posts: 5,853

Re: The cost of spikes

We're basing this on the cost of spikes being too high. Makes sense.
But we start comparing it to portals. Portals (imo) are entirely different than spikes. Spikes require your return point to have been visited. Portals can do that and more. They can adjust the exit direction. They can all go to one spot, or all to different spots.

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thanks HG, HG, HG, HG! anatoly, zumza! zoey!

Koto

Member

Joined: 2015-02-18

Posts: 3,269

Re: The cost of spikes

yeah, I don't understand why people are comparing them.   People only started using portals in that way, because of the lack of things like spikes.

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Shift

Guest

Re: The cost of spikes

How can anyone say spikes are too expensive? Let's look at the math.

The price of 1 portal is 650 energy. If I want 100 portals, it costs 65000 energy.

The price of 10 spikes is 1000 energy. The cost of 1 checkpoint is 250 energy. If I want 100 spikes, it costs 10000 energy. If I want 100 checkpoints, it costs 25000 energy. Together, this all costs 35000 energy.

In case you can't figure it out, 35000 is a lot less than 65000.

NR2001

Guest

Re: The cost of spikes

Instead of a spike floor, or even an arrow-to-spike, why not a central area where everyone goes when they fall, like a "death chamber" with spikes on the floor?