Yet another community project [Contests]

Saintcool · Before February 2015

I recently emailed MrShoe about contests asking if we could have one if the community could create a suitable pitch by the end of March and this is the reply:

Saintcool's email wrote:

I am writing to speak about a request that I am sure you have heard countless times about Everybody Edits competitions, in which you have already stated that "are too much work and everyone just gets annoyed in the end", I am proposing some solutions to these problems which involve practically us doing most of the busy work.
If you give me a month to prepare, by the end of March I would be able to show you an acceptable pitch on a future contest.

MrShoe wrote:

Hi *my name*
Thank you for your input.
I do not believe I have ever said that :-)
But it is true that there is a lot of work included, and that there are some things we feel is important to make first (for example a way of seeing all the worlds that are actually in the contest).
Either way, you are more than welcome to send in a pitch. Will be looking forward to it!

So the plan is if we can put together a good enough plan we may get another contest, if we make this a brainstorm topic we could gather some ideas for a few days before we begin to put everything together.

Ideas:
Higher and lower judges (Lower judges look through all the levels and pick ones with a spark out, Higher then look at these selected levels and pick yet more out). Judges are well respected unbiased members of the community. Spacetimefoam members?

Tiers of contests (Different classes in the contest, Veteran and Builder, Veteran being us and Builder being for the rest of ee. This would also lessen the amount of levels each judge has to judge).

Levels are posted on a thread, which are then transferred to an easy to understand list with Team Number, Name, level and members. Example is this:http://forumify.com/ee/contests/easter/

Different categories inside classes:
- Best Overall Level
- Best Concept
- Best In game art
- Best Mini Map art
- Best Minigames

System idea:http://eeforumify.com/viewtopic.php?pid=440964#p440964 (Why rewrite all of this when its just note taking topic)

Last edited by Saintcool (Feb 22 2013 11:15:14 am)

Terence22205 · Before February 2015

I don't think the community should judge.

I prefer mods judging. Because then there's absolutely no bias.

Alexthementalone · Before February 2015

Okay its about time we had a opportunity to organize a competition and give ideas.

Okay firstly I agree with the classification with the Veteran and Beginner ect. There should be these classes: Veteran, Intermediate and beginner. 1 judge would judge Veteran another judge intermediate ect you get the point.

Also maybe include different submissions (Some people do a world, some people do a loading screen and other various things)

This would give a chance for the people who aren't very good at world creating to give them an opportunity to have a good chance at winning the competition.

The competition prizes should be done like this:

1st Place: 2 smileys and 500+ energy per person in a crew or solo
2nd Place: 1 smiley and 500+ energy per person in a crew or solo
3rd Place: 500+ energy per person in a crew or solo

Judges don't always have to be moderators, maybe give well respected Veterans a chance at judging.

Organization of this competition could be just posting like people did In the Halloween submission level topic or a simpler way of keeping teams organzied could be this

Anyway I really hope there is another competition, sure it takes effort to organize, but it is really enjoyable and people have fun participating in it!

/Alexthementalone

Last edited by Alexthementalone (Feb 22 2013 6:08:10 am)

Legoking2000 · Before February 2015

March? How about St. Pat's day?

Saintcool · Before February 2015

I said a month so we would have ample time to create the pitch, without him forgetting. Alex my issue with the different ways of submission is that this is an everybody edits contest, meaning that it should be kept inside everybody edits.

Last edited by Saintcool (Feb 22 2013 7:29:48 am)

Calicara · Before February 2015

I don't think it's necessary to separate the older players from the newer players, because what's the point? What if a so called 'Veteran' was on a team with a 'Builder'. How would you classify that team?

I think instead there should be different categories for different types of level, maybe like ?Best Mini-Map art', 'Best in game art', 'Best minigames', 'Best concept', etc... that way those that are lacking in one spot, but excelling in another still have a chance to win a place in the competition.

I do not think that the old contests were fair though on that judging aspect. I'm not saying that none of the levels deserved to win, but the same people would always win, because they have been playing the game for so long and are really good at it. This way it might give some more leeway to newbie players.

TheYeti · Before February 2015

Failgirl101 wrote:

I don't think it's necessary to separate the older players from the newer players, because what's the point? What if a so called 'Veteran' was on a team with a 'Builder'. How would you classify that team?
I think instead there should be different categories for different types of level, maybe like ?Best Mini-Map art', 'Best in game art', 'Best minigames', 'Best concept', etc... that way those that are lacking in one spot, but excelling in another still have a chance to win a place in the competition.
I do not think that the old contests were fair though on that judging aspect. I'm not saying that none of the levels deserved to win, but the same people would always win, because they have been playing the game for so long and are really good at it. This way it might give some more leeway to newbie players.

I agree separation between old and new players isn't a good idea. When is someone old and when new, and they could be in one group together. What you said about the different categories, maybe we could also use this for the prizes. One prize for best minis, one for best art and one for best concept.

About judging, I think a small group should select about 20 groups per category (minis, art, concept) and then put them in a poll, so that everybody can vote for their favorite.

SilverStar · Before February 2015

That was a very respectable email. Many people would start this topic, come up with an idea, then shove it in his face. This way, he chose whether or not to view it.

When I first read the idea of Veterans vs Builders, I liked the idea. But when I started thinking...
How would we know who fits into what? It can't just be forumers vs nonforumers.

One thing I can think of is making the prizes bigger for the higher ranks. That way you choose the skill you think you can compete with.

Calicara · Before February 2015

SilverStar29 wrote:

That was a very respectable email. Many people would start this topic, come up with an idea, then shove it in his face. This way, he chose whether or not to view it.
When I first read the idea of Veterans vs Builders, I liked the idea. But when I started thinking...
How would we know who fits into what? It can't just be forumers vs nonforumers.
One thing I can think of is making the prizes bigger for the higher ranks. That way you choose the skill you think you can compete with.

I think there should be about 5 different categories with a first place and a second place.

The categories could be:

- Best Overall Level
- Best Concept
- Best In game art
- Best Mini Map art
- Best Minigames

That leave of a total of 10 different winning teams which is plenty. It also gives people a chance to try different things since they can enter under any category. I've seen some level with fun minis and bad art, and some levels with amazing art and bad minis. Everyone is good at something different

Shift · Before February 2015

NO FLAGGING CONTESTS!!! No more!

To debunk your ideas:
1. It's impossible to be completely unbiased when the people you propose be judges have interacted with the community.
2. Who's to say all of "us" are veterans? Or that the rest of EE isn't? The only solution to this is allowing contestants to choose their category, under which system a "veteran" could opt for the lower category in order to gain an advantage.
3. In your second clause you implied that each judge would receive different levels to judge, independent from the other judges. I really hope that's not what you meant, for that defeats the point of having judges.

Failgirl101 wrote:

I think instead there should be different categories for different types of level, maybe like ?Best Mini-Map art', 'Best in game art', 'Best minigames', 'Best concept', etc... that way those that are lacking in one spot, but excelling in another still have a chance to win a place in the competition.

That's not an entirely terrible idea, except that's the point of having a team: to collaborate by bringing various skills to the table. It also forces contestants to choose which category to focus on, which can only limit the level in the long run.

Calicara · Before February 2015

I think everyone should aim for their best, but lets face it. There are some people we know who will ALWAYS win. Its not their fault that they are good, and I' not criticizing them for being good level makers, but when the same people always win it just leaves the underdogs **** off, and they feel like it's a waste of time.

Even though anyone can sign up for EE, I consider it a very exclusive community. It is rare to see a non forumer make a decent level worthy of playing, and it is generally long time forumers who we look up to to make such good levels. I don't mean to say all forumers are superior, but generally from previous contests trends show that more popular players always win.

There are only two ways around this. Either the better plays should not enter and give the newbies a chance to show their stuff or Julian could have more prizes for more teams and not judge solely based on the entirety of a map. I'm not gonna lie, map making is hard. I think I have nice art, but I never share it because it takes up pretty much the entire map leaving no room for minis

There will always be some bias in the judges, we just have to trust that they will make the best decisions possible.

Saintcool · Before February 2015

With the veterans/builders, they are referring to a class, not the people entering. Veterans refers to anyone entering the Veterans class regardless of time playing the game and the same referring to the builders class.

Edit: May I add, the more classes and categories that are added, the more judges will be needed.

Last edited by Saintcool (Feb 22 2013 8:25:05 am)

skullz17 · Before February 2015

I think initially it should be judged by mods, then players that volunteer to judge, then players picked out from the community and finally, the whole community can give a vote.

With the final vote, if some people have the same amount of votes or there aren't enough votes, mods can decide the winner.

Glitcherkid · Before February 2015

skullz16 wrote:

I think initially it should be judged by mods, then players that volunteer to judge, then players picked out from the community and finally, the whole community can give a vote.
With the final vote, if some people have the same amount of votes or there aren't enough votes, mods can decide the winner.

I am also thinking something like this would work. The admins or mods would be the overall judges, but the community would also be able to vote (and they would have to give a reasoning to go along with the vote, so that it isn't just a spam vote). With this, the admins will be able to read through each member's thoughts on the levels, which can further help them decide which levels are worthy to win a bigger prize.

The reason I say bigger prize, is because I think that every level entered should even win a complimentary prize, whether that be only 25-50 energy, or a smiley that was made considering the theme of the contest (like a bunny smiley for Easter).

Last edited by Glitcherkid (Feb 22 2013 9:59:17 am)

Alexthementalone · Before February 2015

Saintcool wrote:

I said a month so we would have ample time to create the pitch, without him forgetting. Alex my issue with the different ways of submission is that this is an everybody edits contest, meaning that it should be kept inside everybody edits.

Well some people are very good at map making, where others are not. It would be really good to give those players who aren't good at map making an opportunity at winning. Of course the worlds and the other ways of submission would be judged seperatley. Im just saying its nice to include everyone.

Glitcherkid · Before February 2015

AL3XTH3M3NTALON3 wrote:

[snip]... Im just saying its nice to include everyone.

Exactly my thoughts. That's why I think a complimentary prize such as 25-50 energy or a contest related smiley should be given to all those who enter the contest and make a level.

AsurcH · Before February 2015

Not all maps need art to be good.
Not all maps need minigames to be good.
Not all maps need to be overall good to be good.(lolwut)

Basically my idea here is to make a system.

Every person who makes a legal entry should get a joining prize. The only way to classify a level should be fun. This is a game, you play it for fun. Also I would like to see non-monotone levels so creativity should also be rewarded. So this is how it should sound like;

- You or your group enters with a level you made on everybody edits.
- Judges, preferable selected from the last winners of contests(ie. easter, halloween etc.) judge your level and make a summary on how fun the gameplay is and how creative it is.
- Lets say that 100 worlds was entered. 50 of them get just a prize for joining(preferably smiley). 30 of them are selected for being competitive and fun(preferably smiley and blocks). 15 of them are selected for improving the gameplay and being fun meanwhile(preferably smiley blocks and energy) and the top 5 in here will be rewarded for being a director's cut, or should I say judge's cut? They receive a ribbon on their level, which might show up on lobby and the smiley blocks and energy prize.

- After this happens the selected 30, 15 and the 5 go on an upper state. After you elect alike maybe 300 levels, you will only have the half of them. As this might go on, after passing the first prizes, you may only get energy due to having abused prizes and a lot of people would miss the blocks and smileys. As this race goes on you finally have a top 20 or something, which will be rewarded as the contest's winners and get special mention in the lobby for a while. After all, they are selected for being fun and creative.

I would like to see such a system. The willing winners of the previous contests should be skilled enough to know what a good, fun and creative level is and reward them. If you would see a judge being weird or trying to make a level cheat, you can always report it to moderators or something. Also judges wont be able to enter their levels in, but they get a prize for judging, which include the smiley,blocks and some energy probably.

So what do you think? This system includes everyone to be able to judge, while it is choosing the "veteran" people as your term maybe. I see "veteran" as someone who is skilled in game to make someone enjoy their level. You don't have to be playing 1-2 years to be it.

hummerz5 · Before February 2015

I like all these ideas.

Saintcool wrote:

Levels are posted on a thread, which are then transferred to an easy to understand list with Team Number, Name, level and members. Example is this:http://forumify.com/ee/contests/easter/

Needs a table.

Something like this.

Last edited by hummerz5 (Feb 22 2013 3:36:17 pm)

iPwner · Before February 2015

I think EX should judge. There's not too much bias, and they're pros.

Please EX Crew, don't plead for trophies. Who knows if a wild Benjaminsen will jump out of a bush and slap your cheeks on both side repeatedly, take all your fame and glory, and jump up into the sky, saying an everlasting "SUUUUCKEEEERRRRRSSSS!!!".

Please don't ask for prizes for judging.

@Asurch Good idea! For another placemarker! The only placemarker I have is the fanboy smiley -..- I wish they gave prizes for joining contests in the previous ones... oh well! As long as MrShoe doesn't redistribute the fanboy, I'll be happy. ^_^

EDIT: BTW did you hear the news?! PSY and Justin Bebber got in a fistfight in L.A. and PSY beat his lil bootay good! Watch the whole thing here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUm5VVrncDs

Last edited by ipwner (Feb 22 2013 1:01:18 pm)

Calicara · Before February 2015

TBH I'm not against community judging. I think if a pro map maker is willing to take the time to be a judge instead of a contestant, they should not allowed to enter the contest (thus making sure that not all the same people win all the time). Then the should get a special judge smiley, and maybe 100-150 energy for devoting their time to properly judge all the levels.

I know these will always be a bit of bias, but I would feel much more comfortable with a long term level maker like Drock2308 judging, because he probably knows the difference better between a good or bad level compared to say, a judge who is one of Chris' friends who has never played before.

iPwner · Before February 2015

Saintcool, can't it wait for the summer? D: I need time to make my level, and I don't want to flunk school bcuz of EE

Saintcool · Before February 2015

I feel that a smiley for winning would deface the winners position, a small increase in energy maybe but a large one wouldn't be fair to the real winners.

Alexthementalone · Before February 2015

If this contest does go underway then the submissions should be posted like this:

Group/Crew Name: (If its a solo effort then you can make up a name)
Name of Particiapants: (Names of the players/player in the Group/Crew/Solo)
Level Link: (Self explanatory)
Short explanation of level: (Basically just a short memo that would go well with the level, it could be optional)

So here is how it would look if it was posted:

Name: Lol Group
Participants:Alexthementalone, Saintcool, Doh, Boh and Failgirl101
Level link: www.everybodyedits.com (Followed by the world ID)
Explanation: This level is awesome

Also we have really done most of the Planning for the contest, the only thing left is to do the dates and the judges.

Saintcool · Before February 2015

Dates are irreverent, judging we have a pretty good idea, about stages of judging, who is selected (Past winners, People like EX and Spacetimefoam).

iPwner · Before February 2015

What's Spacetimefoam? "Past winners"? o.O Since when did Spacetimefoam win... and what is it?

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