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#1 2020-08-03 21:17:35, last edited by Minisaurus (2020-08-05 03:01:58)

Minisaurus
Banned

ANALISIS - Current EEU basic movement weaknesses (EEU LAME Physics)

I am not giving my own vision of what I think is good or bad in EEU, In this topic I am pointing out completely objetive and verifiable weaknesses from EEU (This is not an opinion review, I show EEU weaknesses)
I can pretty much tell that those points are extremely noticeable and the new player can pretty much compare it to other bad games and tell it is in the range of the average internet game physics (If EEU want to stand out it has to have better physics than the average internet game, EEU should aim to not be one more of the average game with weaknesses that will repel new players to join the game)

The new player of EEU will have its vison of the game distorted by the false belief that it is the best the game can do because the new EEU player has never seen any better from the game franchise
The current state of EEU lacking features and having the weaknesses shown below are a ticket to be directly discarded by the major internet community, If I was going to play a game, I won´t be playing a game with bad or average physics, I will play a game with few flaws and a lot of interesting mechanics that have the most enjoyable physics with few visible weaknesses, and if I am an internet player who like to build I wouldn not be going to build in a game with bad or average physics neither, I would prefer to play a game with few flaws and a lot of interesting mechanics that have the most enjoyable physics with few visible weaknesses

My advice to the staff is that its better to fix the weaknesses of the game now than later, because the first wave of players that will try out EEU when it open to the public will the biggest EEU will have most likely ever (Like in EE and any other indi game, the peak of popularity after one month or two, the game popularity will be pretty much in its maximum peak) and the game will probably give a bad taste in the mouth to all the players who try EEU because of the reasons explained below

I consider all the weaknesses shown below to be completely objetive and verifiable:
▼Acceleration/deceleration (X,Y coordinates):
Acceleration is insanely fast and speed reduction is almost instantaneous feeling similar to photoshop moving objects
This mean that the friction is really high in EEU or simply intertia is really low in EEU, having a bland gameplay in result over all and short time to react after switching directions
Objetively the game speed acceleration is literally almost instantaneous, it goes from 0 to full speed in around 1 seconds, that is very fast, making the in-between moment almost non existent, the movement in photoshop is exactly that, not feeling "real" acceleration or deceleration, all goes immediately after the command

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▼EUU Hold space:
Hold Space Timing before activation & Speed of pausation:
ZERO pausation, almost ZERO timing before activation
ZERO pausation: Makes the jumps way too fast, imposible to control
ZERO timing before activation: It makes very likely the player to jump even when him didn´t wanted to jump at that moment, makign the player feel out of control of the smiley
Here I am not giving my opinion, it is objetively verifiable by doing it yourself that the hold space is almost instantly casted and the pausation between jumps is literally none, and this is objetively far away over the human reaction time, not my opinion, but what science have to say (200ms average reaction time after stimulus)


__

▼EEU Auto-align:
Auto-align:
No functional auto-align whatsoever
You can´t tell me that it has a functional auto-align, for the simple fact it does not have a functional auto-align, and that is proven objetively by trying it yourself, you just won´t be able to get the auto-align to work nor a new player will


__

▼Jump FPS:
Jumps feels "flat", not realistic
EEU jump frame per second usage does not follow this principle, or it follows it so lightly that if feels wrong
EEU is lacking this, is not my opinon, is what EEU jump is right now, a jump that lacks this principle
For the human eye it simply does not looks right because we have a basic knowledge of how physics work in real life, almost all good platform games (Super mario franchise for example) follow this animation principle, because otherwise the jump would and will look odd

I even discussed the responsiveness of the jump with the staff as the game response fails sometimes (I used super-slow motion to prove it to the staff and we agreed that it had some delay issues when jumping)
Videos that shows EEU jump weaknesses:

Look at a game that is from 1985 that do a better job with this principle than EEU does in 2020:
Go to minute 5:55 in the video, This is one of the features that EEU jump is lacking and one of the many reasons I am doing this Analisis topic
This video shows a lot of what EEU is lacking, the game of this video does a much better job than EEU is currently doing with Physics (not talking about graphics)
This video shows many things EEU is lacking as well, and shows what things EEU is doing wrong or weakly, for example in minute 10:25 of the video

Currently EEU is lacking a lot of basic physics features that would make it enjoyable, also the current EEU basic physics are not polished yet, and because of that the failure chances are very high for EEU right now in the game industry, you have to see behind the curtain of other successful games and see what are they doing right, and why they are successful in the first place, EEU need more than good graphics to be a popular game


See my posts below for additional information

In this post I show gifs that explain each point posted in this topic: https://forums.everybodyedits.com/viewt … 12#p783812

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#2 2020-08-03 21:32:12, last edited by drunkbnu (2020-08-03 21:36:20)

drunkbnu
Formerly HG
Joined: 2017-08-16
Posts: 2,306

Re: ANALISIS - Current EEU basic movement weaknesses (EEU LAME Physics)

EEU is not supposed to have identical physics to EE. Said that, I'm honestly fine with the movement speed and the non-delay when holding space, though it's hard to get used to it.

I know there are some issues, like it being a lot more difficult to jump in time due to the movement speed, and player aligning is only done when hitting a ceiling.

unknown.png

In this example, if you jump, you're aligned for the next jump. Sadly it's not the case when there's no height, like in the example you showed.
However, you could have jumped perfectly by holding Space and going through.

I see scenarios like these being more problematic and that could receive a fix:

unknown.png

What I'd like to see is aligning by moving to the direction the player is currently being pushed to by gravity. In the example above, the player would have to press Up to align themselves and jump without trouble.
This could solve similar scenarios, like yours, and allow for some interesting challenges, instead of auto-aligning the player every time.

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#3 2020-08-03 23:10:10

TaskManager
Formerly maxi123
From: i really should update this
Joined: 2015-03-01
Posts: 9,457

Re: ANALISIS - Current EEU basic movement weaknesses (EEU LAME Physics)

nobody:
minisaurus: here's 95 theses on WHY EEU SUCKS


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signature by HG, profile picture by bluecloud, thank!!
previous signature by drstereos

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#4 2020-08-03 23:44:27

mutantdevle
Moderation Team
From: Hell
Joined: 2015-03-31
Posts: 3,847
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Re: ANALISIS - Current EEU basic movement weaknesses (EEU LAME Physics)

The EEU physics definitely take some getting used to. But I wonder if that's a case of us going from EEs physics to EEU physics or if it's a case of the EEU physics just generally being unwelcoming to new players. If it's the latter, EEU is certainly going to struggle to grow regardless of any other factors.


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#5 2020-08-04 02:21:27

Tomahawk
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From: UK
Joined: 2015-02-18
Posts: 2,824

Re: ANALISIS - Current EEU basic movement weaknesses (EEU LAME Physics)

What I read:

Minisaurus wrote:

It’s bad because it’s different.

Maybe the problem is that you’re building EE minis in EEU. In that regard a newcomer might create smoother gameplay since they’re unbiased by EE’s physics.


One bot to rule them all, one bot to find them. One bot to bring them all... and with this cliché blind them.

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#6 2020-08-04 02:52:43, last edited by Minisaurus (2020-08-04 03:22:22)

Minisaurus
Banned

Re: ANALISIS - Current EEU basic movement weaknesses (EEU LAME Physics)

Tomahawk wrote:

Maybe the problem is that you’re building EE minis in EEU.

"building EE minis in EEU"
I would not try to build EE minis in EEU since both games have different phyiscs, but as both games are the same game-genre with almost the same tools and very similar physics, I surely have to build minis of the same CONCEPT (The essence of the mini rather than its physical structure)

For example T jumps, you are likely to build those kind of minis in both games, and you can compare in what game you like the most to play that mini concept

Here I compare CONCEPTS of games that are very likely to be played in both games: https://forums.everybodyedits.com/viewt … p?id=47053

Tomahawk wrote:

In that regard a newcomer might create smoother gameplay since they’re unbiased by EE’s physics.

"Unbiased by EE’s physics." because they would find out that EE physics are better?

That would be like someone tasting oreos-vanilla and claim them to be his favorite oreos without even tasting the other flavors, If I want to know what oreos are the best I have to test them all, it would be a dumb choice to just try one flavor if I can taste them all and see which one I like the most

You are claiming that if EEU newcomers don´t try EE they might find EEU physics better? How they would do that if they don´t try EE as well? (They clearly have to test both games to compare them)

What I am doing in this topic is comparing EE/EEU, if I would want just give my review about EEU without saying anything about EE, then I would end up with the same conclusion, because even without trying EE, EEU physics would still feel wrong to me, I have played tons of games and I know when the physics of a game are lame compared to other games of the same genre (Overall EEU physics feels bland)

#7 2020-08-04 03:20:07

Minimania
Moderation Team
From: PbzvatFbba 13
Joined: 2015-02-22
Posts: 6,386

Re: ANALISIS - Current EEU basic movement weaknesses (EEU LAME Physics)

Tomahawk is saying that your review is biased because it compares EEU physics to EE physics. Newcomers to EEU literally won't be able to try EE physics. That is why this review is flawed.


21cZxBv.png
Click the image to see my graphics suggestions, or here to play EE: Project M!

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#8 2020-08-04 03:23:25, last edited by Minisaurus (2020-08-04 17:54:40)

Minisaurus
Banned

Re: ANALISIS - Current EEU basic movement weaknesses (EEU LAME Physics)

Crybaby wrote:

Tomahawk is saying that your review is biased because it compares EEU physics to EE physics. Newcomers to EEU literally won't be able to try EE physics. That is why this review is flawed.

So because I can´t taste Vanilla Oreos I have to agree that Chocolate Oreos are good? (Even though I don´t like Chocolate Oreos)

EEU basic physics analisis:

__

EEU Movement (X,Y Coordinates):kq0IQuR.gif
(The gif shows how the X position start/stop, see the numbers)
Acceleration/deceleration (X,Y coordinates):

__

EUU Hold space:w85nqlB.gifYPMr7Ol.gif
Hold Space Timing before activation & Speed of pausation:


__

EEU Auto-align:I7y7Q93.gifb]Auto-align:


__

Jump FPS:

Start in minute 6:10 it explain what should be the fps (Principle of animation)

__

PD: This topic is ONLY to review the basic movement, I will make a review topic for action tools (That includes arrows, portals, effects, etc)

#9 2020-08-04 06:12:12

Different55
Forum Admin
Joined: 2015-02-07
Posts: 16,572

Re: ANALISIS - Current EEU basic movement weaknesses (EEU LAME Physics)

Minisaurus wrote:

So because I can´t taste Vanilla Oreos I have to agree that Chocolate Oreos are good? (Even though I don´t like Chocolate Oreos)

No, but when transitioning from Thing A that you've used FOREVER to a brand new Thing B, you should be aware that old expectations can fail for the new thing and cause additional cognitive stress which can then be projected on the thing, despite not necessarily being a real failing of the new Thing B. You haven't given any sign that you compensated for that. If you're going to compare it, bring in even more examples from other similar 2D platformers, would add additional weight that perhaps EEU's physics aren't ideal for its type of game, or maybe not. But that's why everyone's saying it might be worthwhile to bring in the opinion of someone untainted by the original flavor, because if the new flavor is objectively bad then the newbie will also recognize that and agree with you. If not, it could be a sign that your perspective is distorted from past experiences.


"Sometimes failing a leap of faith is better than inching forward"
- ShinsukeIto

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#10 2020-08-04 07:36:53

peace
Member
From: admin land
Joined: 2015-08-10
Posts: 9,226

Re: ANALISIS - Current EEU basic movement weaknesses (EEU LAME Physics)

the reason you autojump in the arrows at insnae speed is also there is not auto aligin that unecresary needs to take place there wiht auto aligign you cant stand on the pixel you want becuase allas EE rounds  thus this is alos seeable in X movement i think auto aligin isnt impelemented yet and tbh is it really needed?


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thanks hg for making this much better and ty for my avatar aswell

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#11 2020-08-04 16:12:28, last edited by Minisaurus (2020-08-04 21:40:15)

Minisaurus
Banned

Re: ANALISIS - Current EEU basic movement weaknesses (EEU LAME Physics)

EEU Movement (X,Y Coordinates)
EE Movement (X,Y Coordinates)

Acceleration/deceleration (X,Y coordinates):
EEU: EEU acceleration is insanely fast and speed reduction is almost instantaneous
EE: The acceleration feels right, the deceleration is soft and goes from the thousands to the hundreds to then go to the tens and finally stopping at the ones (X,Y)


EUU Hold space:
EE Hold space:

Hold Space Timing before activation & Speed of pausation
EEU: ZERO pausation, almost ZERO timing before activation
EE: Good amount of time before starting hold space, good pausation for the of hold space


EEU Auto-align
EE Auto-align

Auto-align:
EEU: No functional auto-align whatsoever
EE: Functional auto-align


Jump comparisson:


The video shows the frame per frame speed of the jumps of EE & EEU
EE: Correct use of FPS, more realistic movement
EEU: The movement feels like "flat", not realistic

It seems that EE do have the jump even outside the platform feature unintentionally

Related topic: https://forums.everybodyedits.com/viewt … p?id=47026

#12 2020-08-04 20:26:01

Andymakeer
Member
From: Nine-tails Vale
Joined: 2016-05-29
Posts: 672

Re: ANALISIS - Current EEU basic movement weaknesses (EEU LAME Physics)

This is now the Official Minisaurus EE/EEU Roasting Megatopic


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