Official Everybody Edits Forums

Anatoly

Guest

How do you select the difficulties, campaign team?

Like seriously. You can't just randomly put medium/hard labels everywhere around (which either is basic or insane..)

Tell us, how do you specify the difficulty?

Gosha

Member

From: Russia

Joined: 2015-03-15

Posts: 6,206

Re: How do you select the difficulties, campaign team?

By playing the map (hopefully with multiple people) and giving it a difficulty rank.

How would you do it? Counting the amount of hook jumps?

Anatoly

Guest

Re: How do you select the difficulties, campaign team?

By playing the map (hopefully with multiple people) and giving it a difficulty rank.

How would you do it? Counting the amount of hook jumps?

Right. But I mean, it cannot be so that the hard levels are given medium and the the medium levels easy. Master1 and other campaign team members are actually so good in campaigns that they don't recognise any difference between a medium and an hard level.

Raphe9000

Member

Joined: 2015-03-16

Posts: 1,864

Re: How do you select the difficulties, campaign team?

If I can beat it then it is automatically set to easy or below.

mikelolsuperman

Member

From: North Korea

Joined: 2016-06-26

Posts: 1,683

Website

Re: How do you select the difficulties, campaign team?

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Signature made by Nebula

I also like lasagna, but not when it's blue

Nou

Member

Joined: 2015-02-24

Posts: 2,762

Re: How do you select the difficulties, campaign team?

By playing the map (hopefully with multiple people) and giving it a difficulty rank.

How would you do it? Counting the amount of hook jumps?

Right. But I mean, it cannot be so that the hard levels are given medium and the the medium levels easy. Master1 and other campaign team members are actually so good in campaigns that they don't recognise any difference between a medium and an hard level.

Gee, it's almost as if it's based on a rough estimation/opinion with which you don't always seem to agree. In other words, had you been making campaigns, people would be whining about it just like you are, but then you'd be on the receiving end. Are you saying your opinion on difficulty is superior?

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No u.

bunglybongle

Guest

Re: How do you select the difficulties, campaign team?

By playing the map (hopefully with multiple people) and giving it a difficulty rank.

How would you do it? Counting the amount of hook jumps?

Right. But I mean, it cannot be so that the hard levels are given medium and the the medium levels easy. Master1 and other campaign team members are actually so good in campaigns that they don't recognise any difference between a medium and an hard level.

<snip - troublemaking>

2b55b5g

Formerly 2B55B5G TNG

Joined: 2016-08-27

Posts: 3,003

Re: How do you select the difficulties, campaign team?

Just make everything basic because campaign team thinks it’s easy

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she/her

also known as DevilCharlotte

search 2bisniekitastan if you wanna find my worlds on ArchivEE

pfp: https://picrew.me/image_maker/1272810

Yu

Guest

Re: How do you select the difficulties, campaign team?

It would be nice to get a little criteria sheet just for kicks. So I kind of like this thread.

Sure it's obvious that the difficulty is based off of judgment, but perhaps some criteria guidance could be necessitated.

Anatoly

Guest

Re: How do you select the difficulties, campaign team?

By playing the map (hopefully with multiple people) and giving it a difficulty rank.

How would you do it? Counting the amount of hook jumps?

Right. But I mean, it cannot be so that the hard levels are given medium and the the medium levels easy. Master1 and other campaign team members are actually so good in campaigns that they don't recognise any difference between a medium and an hard level.

Gee, it's almost as if it's based on a rough estimation/opinion with which you don't always seem to agree. In other words, had you been making campaigns, people would be whining about it just like you are, but then you'd be on the receiving end. Are you saying your opinion on difficulty is superior?

Exactly this way different levels have been played by different people with different opinions. So that the levels from when you added campaigns had another difficulty setting than these of today’s.

peace

Member

From: admin land

Joined: 2015-08-10

Posts: 9,226

Re: How do you select the difficulties, campaign team?

maby poelpe can vote afterwardas for the new true dificulty

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thanks hg for making this much better and ty for my avatar aswell

Yu

Guest

Re: How do you select the difficulties, campaign team?

maby poelpe can vote afterwardas for the new true dificulty

Hey, this is actually a very neat suggestion. Something like: curator rating: medium; user rating: medium-hard

mikelolsuperman

Member

From: North Korea

Joined: 2016-06-26

Posts: 1,683

Website

Re: How do you select the difficulties, campaign team?

Just put some holdspaces and name it Jump Jump Jump 2. Also put music level and at the end you get 1 label block

Difficulty: Medium

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Blue is my favourite color

Signature made by Nebula

I also like lasagna, but not when it's blue

2b55b5g

Formerly 2B55B5G TNG

Joined: 2016-08-27

Posts: 3,003

Re: How do you select the difficulties, campaign team?

maby poelpe can vote afterwardas for the new true dificulty

Nice suggestion but actually useless. Imagine new players play campaigns, medium campaigns are too hard for them, so they vote for hard. But when pro players play medium campaigns, they think that it’s too easy, so they vote for basic.

Again, if new players play extreme campaigns, it’s too hard, so of course they will vote for extreme. Normal skilled/non-skilled players would vote for hard/hard-extreme, pro players will vote for easy. It’s just not fair.

EE have many kinds of players, not every player’s skills are the same, so voting is useless.

---

she/her

also known as DevilCharlotte

search 2bisniekitastan if you wanna find my worlds on ArchivEE

pfp: https://picrew.me/image_maker/1272810

peace

Member

From: admin land

Joined: 2015-08-10

Posts: 9,226

Re: How do you select the difficulties, campaign team?

yeah but ofc its nto liek 1 peopel vote hard so lest make it hard diff it can take an average or an diff that is choosen the most

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thanks hg for making this much better and ty for my avatar aswell

Nou

Member

Joined: 2015-02-24

Posts: 2,762

Re: How do you select the difficulties, campaign team?

By playing the map (hopefully with multiple people) and giving it a difficulty rank.

How would you do it? Counting the amount of hook jumps?

Right. But I mean, it cannot be so that the hard levels are given medium and the the medium levels easy. Master1 and other campaign team members are actually so good in campaigns that they don't recognise any difference between a medium and an hard level.

Gee, it's almost as if it's based on a rough estimation/opinion with which you don't always seem to agree. In other words, had you been making campaigns, people would be whining about it just like you are, but then you'd be on the receiving end. Are you saying your opinion on difficulty is superior?

Exactly this way different levels have been played by different people with different opinions. So that the levels from when you added campaigns had another difficulty setting than these of today’s.

But not everyone's opinion is based on the same skill. The initial basic idea behind the difficulties (which I set up back in the days when we released campaigns) was to divide levels into 7 categories, starting with what was then arguably the hardest level, working down to the easiest levels, sub-dividing along the way.

Now, if you can actually beat the hardest levels, aka the entire Fractured Fingers campaign, having the hardest level of the hardest campaign means that's extreme, because it's an extreme challenge for the best players. This, ignoring the fact that some people have become even more amazingly skilled at this game that they can still breeze through that campaign.
Then, with the easiest levels, someone new to the game can beat the Basic campaigns with little effort. This was the foundation for the framework of the difficulties: Extreme would be what the most highly-skilled subset of players would find extreme, Basic would be no problem to beat for the most lowly-skilled subset of players.

If you take the middle section, let's say a Hard campaign, having a new or low-skilled player attempt a Hard level, let's say EX Crew Odyssey, for them that's an extreme challenge, so according to them that level should be in the Extreme category. Where does that leave the actual current Extreme campaigns? Uber Power Master Omfg Extreme? Nope, still extreme, because the framework was set up that way.
So, having people with vastly different skill levels vote won't work, because it's not based on a similar experience. That's why, especially in the beginning, highly-skilled players needed to form their opinions on campaign level difficulties, because then Extreme was actually Extreme. With the foundation having been lain, it is now much easier for lesser-skilled players to estimate whereabouts the difficulty really lies, because they can compare it to the current framework. So what might be an extreme challenge for one player might be just medium for someone else.

Master1 and Kirby are (I believe, I'm not around much) currently doing campaigns, and they are both highly-skilled players, so their reach is higher and therefore their estimation of difficulty is based on much more experience than for others. They might be getting biased about difficulty because they could be at the point where Extreme isn't an extreme challenge to them anymore, but that's something else.

That said, Anatoly and other players I've heard complain about this before, as far as I'm aware you're not nearly in the range of being able to beat the Extreme campaigns and therefore your experience is relatively lacking to form good judgement regarding campaign level difficulty. As far as I've seen, I think M1, Kirby, and Rava have been doing excellent work with the difficulty, with a few disagreements from my side as well, but hey, that's also just my opinion.

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No u.

mikelolsuperman

Member

From: North Korea

Joined: 2016-06-26

Posts: 1,683

Website

Re: How do you select the difficulties, campaign team?

Wow nou is active after leaving 2 years ago (was it that long)?

---

Blue is my favourite color

Signature made by Nebula

I also like lasagna, but not when it's blue

Yu

Guest

Re: How do you select the difficulties, campaign team?

maby poelpe can vote afterwardas for the new true dificulty

Nice suggestion but actually useless. Imagine new players play campaigns, medium campaigns are too hard for them, so they vote for hard. But when pro players play medium campaigns, they think that it’s too easy, so they vote for basic.

Again, if new players play extreme campaigns, it’s too hard, so of course they will vote for extreme. Normal skilled/non-skilled players would vote for hard/hard-extreme, pro players will vote for easy. It’s just not fair.

EE have many kinds of players, not every player’s skills are the same, so voting is useless.

But that's exactly how the rating system works. It gauges the level of the playerbase which can help the staff determine what difficulty to focus campaigns on. So what if a bunch of newbies rate a level a certain way. I'm interested in what players think of various campaigns difficulty-wise.

Nou

Member

Joined: 2015-02-24

Posts: 2,762

Re: How do you select the difficulties, campaign team?

maby poelpe can vote afterwardas for the new true dificulty

Nice suggestion but actually useless. Imagine new players play campaigns, medium campaigns are too hard for them, so they vote for hard. But when pro players play medium campaigns, they think that it’s too easy, so they vote for basic.

Again, if new players play extreme campaigns, it’s too hard, so of course they will vote for extreme. Normal skilled/non-skilled players would vote for hard/hard-extreme, pro players will vote for easy. It’s just not fair.

EE have many kinds of players, not every player’s skills are the same, so voting is useless.

But that's exactly how the rating system works. It gauges the level of the playerbase which can help the staff determine what difficulty to focus campaigns on. So what if a bunch of newbies rate a level a certain way. I'm interested in what players think of various campaigns difficulty-wise.

Then my question to you would be, what do you suppose a newbie would rate the Hard campaigns? They would most likely put it in the category of Extreme. But then how would they rate the current Extreme campaigns?

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No u.

Raphe9000

Member

Joined: 2015-03-16

Posts: 1,864

Re: How do you select the difficulties, campaign team?

We all know everyone would rate basic campaigns as extreme and extreme campaigns as basic because that's what the internet does when you give it power.

Snowester

Member

From: Mars

Joined: 2017-05-31

Posts: 638

Re: How do you select the difficulties, campaign team?

Or maybe it was because you could hack it easily... I mean the EE anticheat is rubbish tbh.

Kirby

Member

Joined: 2015-04-04

Posts: 4,304

Re: How do you select the difficulties, campaign team?

I'll try to be as thorough as I can in this post, but there really isn't a "process" or "formula" that we follow when selecting difficulties, it's very subjective and sorta boils down to a gut feeling.

Personally, I have a few maps that I use to model each difficulty. When picking new levels, I'll compare their difficulties to those maps and see where they rank. These maps are as follows:

Basic - Tutorial 1
Easy - Unforgiving Climb
Medium - Slipside Ride
Hard - EX Crew Odyssey
Extreme - TTL: Spike Edition

So for instance, in the recent "Bouncy" campaign, I found that Bayou Boogie definitely had some minigames that were more difficult than the hardest sections in Unforgiving Climb, but still was overall more easy than Slipside Ride, and as such was given the Easy-Medium tag.

There are also certain other elements that I'll look for when I'm trying to rate a level that isn't too challenging. For starters, I really don't believe basic levels in EE really exist outside of the tutorials, since the jump from Basic to Basic-Easy is so slight that it's pretty much negligible. To me, a Basic-Easy level is one that is pretty much mindless; an experienced player could pretty much do it while focusing on something else entirely, and a new player could catch on pretty quickly. Typically, Basic-Easy and Easy difficulty levels are simple platforming that doesn't require more than a couple of inputs to be strung together at a time.

When timed jumps are introduced, this is when a level goes from being potentially "Easy" to "Easy-Medium" or even "Medium". An example of this is the Technology campaign. Tier 1, "the cake is a lie" by Iraka, does not feature a single timed jump. The player can take their sweet time between pretty much every input (excluding the final key minigame, but Iraka allowed the player plenty of room for error anyway). As such, this level was given the "Easy" difficulty rating. If we move on to tier 2, "Terminal" by Star, we begin with similar simple movement as seen in the previous tier, but eventually it starts becoming more complex. Many minigames require timed jumps in order to beat them. They aren't very difficult, but they still require the player to string together multiple inputs to be able to beat the minigame. As such, this level was given the "Easy-Medium" difficulty rating.

Medium through Hard-Extreme is where it begins to get more difficult. Excluding campaigns such as Altered Reality and the Puzzle Packs, I like to say that there are two main areas of skill in Everybody Edits - precision and endurance. Every player has their own unique skill set, and as such might be amazing at precision minigames, but awful at endurance ones, or vice versa. In the case of extreme campaigns, this might mean that one player might think that CTM2 (endurance) is easier than TTL spike edition (precision), whereas another player could very well think the opposite.

For many levels, this isn't too much of a problem, but there have definitely been tiers (especially lately) that have very subjective difficulties because of this. Most of the "Non-Stop" campaign demands pretty high levels of endurance from the player, most notably "Trail Blazer" by KOTO. For people who can learn this level quickly, being able to execute these inputs might not be too difficult for them, and they might even think that the level should have been rated "Medium-Hard". Another player, who might be slower at developing muscle memory, could have a lot of trouble with this level and believe that it should have been rated "Hard-Extreme."

I guess that's enough ranting, that's pretty much all I can say about it. I suppose if you have any more questions about this stuff (or examples of levels that you felt had the wrong difficulty) feel free to ask.

TL;DR: everything is subjective but we try to make it not subjective but it ends up being really subjective

peace

Member

From: admin land

Joined: 2015-08-10

Posts: 9,226

Re: How do you select the difficulties, campaign team?

hwo do you determinne the bais baisc-easy andeasy ratings when you are skilled in doing extreme mps imean i thnk for you these 3 difficulty require no deaths/fails ect right?

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thanks hg for making this much better and ty for my avatar aswell

Yu

Guest

Re: How do you select the difficulties, campaign team?

hwo do you determinne the bais baisc-easy andeasy ratings when you are skilled in doing extreme mps imean i thnk for you these 3 difficulty require no deaths/fails ect right?

Please read the post right above yours, I'm sure you'll get your answer.

peace

Member

From: admin land

Joined: 2015-08-10

Posts: 9,226

Re: How do you select the difficulties, campaign team?

i did but im just wondeirng if they can get a real answer out of these 3 difficultys which are (i think) clealry too EZ for them

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thanks hg for making this much better and ty for my avatar aswell