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#1 2018-05-27 14:32:00

PiotrGrochowski
Member
From: Poland (born in 8 №v 2004)
Joined: 2016-04-27
Posts: 941

Unicode allowance

Currently, any character not in ISO 8859-1 is deleted from any EE chat comment. This can be a problem when wanting to type en–dash (–), em–dash (—) for better looking typography (8–bit instead of 8-bit, 1—4 players instead of 1-4 players; avoiding the ugly minus in general except for math) or using a language that ISO 8859-1 doesn't fully contain.


I'm known as "haslo" in EE.

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#2 2018-05-27 14:51:54

Gosha
Member
From: Russia
Joined: 2015-03-15
Posts: 5,894

Re: Unicode allowance

most of ee fonts only support characters only in range of x1F - xFF (english alphabet + additional characters)

reference

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#3 2018-05-27 14:56:23

PiotrGrochowski
Member
From: Poland (born in 8 №v 2004)
Joined: 2016-04-27
Posts: 941

Re: Unicode allowance

Isn't the font in chat comments from the OS and not from EE? In Microsoft Windows, the chat comments are in Tahoma, which has many characters not in ISO 8859-1.


I'm known as "haslo" in EE.

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#4 2018-05-27 14:56:51

Nameless
Formerly HG
Joined: 2017-08-16
Posts: 2,219

Re: Unicode allowance

CvoDGbj.png

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#5 2018-05-27 14:58:30, last edited by PiotrGrochowski (2018-05-27 15:00:19)

PiotrGrochowski
Member
From: Poland (born in 8 №v 2004)
Joined: 2016-04-27
Posts: 941

Re: Unicode allowance

Unicode spam? Then you could restrict comments to a larger superset, such as WGL4: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WGL-4 which is supposed to contain all characters in European languages as long as they're Latin, Greek or Cyrillic, and it also contains more punctuation.


I'm known as "haslo" in EE.

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#6 2018-05-27 16:46:52

TaskManager
Formerly maxi123
From: i really should update this
Joined: 2015-03-01
Posts: 8,172

Re: Unicode allowance

PiotrGrochowski wrote:

This can be a problem when wanting to type en–dash (–), em–dash (—) for better looking typography (8–bit instead of 8-bit, 1—4 players instead of 1-4 players; avoiding the ugly minus in general except for math)

this is the **** reason to introduce unicode that i have ever seen
don't get me wrong, i support the idea and want unicode to be implemented in the game chat and signs, but that reasoning is like so bad, there are better reasons that you could come up with

people saying "unicode spam and swastika characters!!!" - we can abuse chat just as much right now by spamming random characters and dodging censors with bad words, it kinda doesnt affect the chat abuse situation at all. what you're saying follows the same logic as "lets not add more keydoor colors cause people will have more keydoors to spam and break levels"


i8SwC8p.png
signature by HG, profile picture by bluecloud, thank!!
previous signature by drstereos













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#7 2018-05-27 17:31:18

Tomahawk
Forum Mod
From: BiH
Joined: 2015-02-18
Posts: 2,185

Re: Unicode allowance

Has anyone actually complained that they can't communicate in their language because the letters aren't supported?


One bot to rule them all, one bot to find them. One bot to bring them all... and with this cliché blind them.

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#8 2018-05-27 17:38:15

ninjasupeatsninja
Member
From: USA
Joined: 2015-04-05
Posts: 2,007
Website

Re: Unicode allowance

Tomahawk wrote:

Has anyone actually complained that they can't communicate in their language because the letters aren't supported?

I'm not sure that they could complain in the first place if their language isn't supported

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#9 2018-05-27 17:42:03

Gosha
Member
From: Russia
Joined: 2015-03-15
Posts: 5,894

Re: Unicode allowance

Tomahawk wrote:

Has anyone actually complained that they can't communicate in their language because the letters aren't supported?

Me. Since i got chat (2012 i believe)

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#10 2018-05-27 18:41:13

N1KF
Wiki Mod
Joined: 2015-02-15
Posts: 10,022

Re: Unicode allowance

There are 1.2 billion native speakers of Chinese. There are 310 million native speakers of Hindi, 295 million native speakers of Arabic, 200 million native speakers of Bengali, 160 million native speakers of Russian, 125 million native speakers of Japanese, and 100 million native speakers of Punjabi. That is over 2.3 billion people.

According to Alexa, 14% of players come from Poland, whose native language has 55 million native speakers.

There are many people we could reach by allowing unicode. I think the users this would help would well outweigh the work. If censor evasion is a problem, keep in mind that the censor system takes care of "lookalike symbols", like ( for C and 0 for O. This could be done for symbols in other languages as well.

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#11 2018-05-27 18:57:29

LukeM
Dev Team
From: England
Joined: 2016-06-03
Posts: 2,877
Website

Re: Unicode allowance

N1KF wrote:

There are 1.2 billion native speakers of Chinese. There are 310 million native speakers of Hindi, 295 million native speakers of Arabic, 200 million native speakers of Bengali, 160 million native speakers of Russian, 125 million native speakers of Japanese, and 100 million native speakers of Punjabi. That is over 2.3 billion people.

According to Alexa, 14% of players come from Poland, whose native language has 55 million native speakers.

There are many people we could reach by allowing unicode. I think the users this would help would well outweigh the work. If censor evasion is a problem, keep in mind that the censor system takes care of "lookalike symbols", like ( for C and 0 for O. This could be done for symbols in other languages as well.

You underestimate how much effort it would be though, EE's font would need to be extended to support the new characters, and Unicode isn't small...

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#12 2018-05-27 19:28:44

N1KF
Wiki Mod
Joined: 2015-02-15
Posts: 10,022

Re: Unicode allowance

LukeM wrote:

You underestimate how much effort it would be though, EE's font would need to be extended to support the new characters, and Unicode isn't small...

I just checked, and Tahoma doesn't support any of those languages I mentioned except Arabic. It seems we would need a new font.

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#13 2018-05-27 19:48:41

Gosha
Member
From: Russia
Joined: 2015-03-15
Posts: 5,894

Re: Unicode allowance

N1KF wrote:

There are 1.2 billion native speakers of Chinese. There are 310 million native speakers of Hindi, 295 million native speakers of Arabic, 200 million native speakers of Bengali, 160 million native speakers of Russian, 125 million native speakers of Japanese, and 100 million native speakers of Punjabi. That is over 2.3 billion people.

That all falls into nothing when you look at the graph of ee members locations.

There are almost no users who speak Chinese/Hindi/Arabic/Bengali/Japanese/Punjabi. Little from Russia. Major ones are Europe, and North America

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#14 2018-05-27 20:12:30

peace
Member
From: admin land
Joined: 2015-08-10
Posts: 6,363

Re: Unicode allowance

allow €€€€€€


peace.png

thanks hg for making this much better

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#15 2018-05-27 22:16:46

N1KF
Wiki Mod
Joined: 2015-02-15
Posts: 10,022

Re: Unicode allowance

Gosha wrote:
N1KF wrote:

There are 1.2 billion native speakers of Chinese. There are 310 million native speakers of Hindi, 295 million native speakers of Arabic, 200 million native speakers of Bengali, 160 million native speakers of Russian, 125 million native speakers of Japanese, and 100 million native speakers of Punjabi. That is over 2.3 billion people.

That all falls into nothing when you look at the graph of ee members locations.

There are almost no users who speak Chinese/Hindi/Arabic/Bengali/Japanese/Punjabi. Little from Russia. Major ones are Europe, and North America

It makes sense there would be few users who speak those languages here since the game doesn't support them.

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#16 2018-05-28 01:12:25

hummerz5
Member
From: wait I'm not a secret mod huh
Joined: 2015-08-10
Posts: 5,795

Re: Unicode allowance

N1KF wrote:
Gosha wrote:
N1KF wrote:

There are 1.2 billion native speakers of Chinese. There are 310 million native speakers of Hindi, 295 million native speakers of Arabic, 200 million native speakers of Bengali, 160 million native speakers of Russian, 125 million native speakers of Japanese, and 100 million native speakers of Punjabi. That is over 2.3 billion people.

That all falls into nothing when you look at the graph of ee members locations.

There are almost no users who speak Chinese/Hindi/Arabic/Bengali/Japanese/Punjabi. Little from Russia. Major ones are Europe, and North America

It makes sense there would be few users who speak those languages here since the game doesn't support them.

I know this is unnecessary interjection, but I feel the need to point out that the views each of you take on this issue are both valid and cyclic. People of other languages don't hang out here because we don't have other languages? Well we don't have other languages because they aren't here. I feel like using either side as an arguing point is ultimately invalid because of this fact. Simply put, we don't know how things might have been or how they would affect the larger populations

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#17 2019-02-16 14:35:41

PiotrGrochowski
Member
From: Poland (born in 8 №v 2004)
Joined: 2016-04-27
Posts: 941

Re: Unicode allowance

N1KF wrote:
LukeM wrote:

You underestimate how much effort it would be though, EE's font would need to be extended to support the new characters, and Unicode isn't small...

I just checked, and Tahoma doesn't support any of those languages I mentioned except Arabic. It seems we would need a new font.

WGL4 has more characters (657) than ISO 8859-1 (191) and font developers tend to target it, meaning Tahoma probably contains at least WGL4. The font limitation isn't nearly as big as the EE chat encoding limitation. Not to mention, a fallback font will probably be used by GDI.


I'm known as "haslo" in EE.

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