Random LGBT+ debates 'n stuff

Enurp · 2018-06-02 06:35:31

I've always disliked having any month be a labelled as an awareness month. Putting something on a pedestal for 1/12 of a year and having it shoved everywhere it can go isn't normalization and isn't going to solve a lot.

I have asbergers, and hate the idea of a "Autism awareness month" because it essentially puts a group on a pedestal and can only lead to an outcome of "Look how this person is different" or having those people believe they are special and having an inflated ego.

How about we learn to treat everyone like a human being and stop putting a label on everyone for every little detail of their lives or who they are.

Bimps, mutantdevle, mrjawapa, TaskManager, Slabdrill, Schlog, SirJosh3917, azurepudding, IanJanes

Zoey2070 · 2018-06-02 07:09:58

Luka504 wrote:

Zoey2070 wrote:
yeah and people misusing the word rape makes me kind of angry too... cuz, y'know, rape is a serious and traumatic topic and shouldn't be misused for something like having my capslock key on.
"You're not allowed to use a word in a specific way because I don't like it"

yes, that is how interacting with people works. congratulations! you figured it out!

ON THE NEGATIVE CONNOTATION OF SOME WORDS

Actually... I'm not going to even go there, because I know it'll cause issues if I go in-depth, oh boy.

The tl;dr of it is that in middle school, I referred to someone as a pretty rude word that is used to refer to gay people, while in a conversation with my best friend who'd came out to me previously.

"hey, can you not use that word? it bothers me because that's what they call my uncle, and they're always telling me how they hate him and how he's gay and stuff." (paraphrasing because this was like eight to ten years ago)

"oh, okay, sorry. i didn't know it bothered you."

and i haven't used it anywhere, real life or online, since then (as far as i can recall) BECAUSE I KNOW IT HURTS PEOPLE WHO ARE AFFECTED BY THESE ISSUES. It's really that simple! People have been raped! Please don't use it in this topic when referring to something that isn't actually the literal definition of it! And don't use slurs against LGBT people in general, but especially not here! That's all! Thanks!

XxAtillaxX · 2018-06-02 07:22:43

You literally couldn't sound more sanctimonious right now, Zoey.

We get it. In the US, gay marriage is overwhelmingly popular in the polls.

Zoey2070 wrote:

yes, that is how interacting with people works. congratulations! you figured it out!

You've done some pretty reprehensible interactions lately to someone I consider my friend. I'm not going to divulge anything specific but please don't be so hypocritical and speak with a holier-than-thou mentality.

Bimps, Luka504, mrjawapa

Luka504 · 2018-06-02 08:14:22

Ok Zoey there's a major difference between you referring to someone using the gay slur and someone telling you to stop "raping" the capslock button.

Seriously though, all that TaskManager did was use that word rape. That's it. And even then it doesn't mean actual rape, it just means that you were spamming the caps lock button and that it was annoying. But you just had to go and blow things out of proportion, didn't you?

Like, that's akin to me telling you to remove the rainbow emoji from the title because I personally find rainbows offensive. So, Zoey, I require you to delete the rainbow emojis and to refrain from using them in any way I deem offensive ever again.

IanJanes

Onjit · 2018-06-02 08:19:34

Well this thread is going as well as I expected haha

Who knew that it'd be difficult to get the EE community to not be tools

I don't really see how it should be so hard to not be in the range from <supportive> to <generally indifferent> on these kinds of issues. At most it's an attempt to bring historically disenfranchised groups into the mainstream, and at least it's a publicity thing that is ultimately placid.

Personally I fit squarely in the <generally indifferent> side of things when it comes to LGBT+ issues, but I can recognise the significance of these kinds of movements.

Emma333

Xfrogman43 · 2018-06-02 08:33:48

you raped your keyboard by typing all that nonsense

Luka504, SirJosh3917

mrjawapa · 2018-06-02 22:03:50

Zoey2070 wrote:

unsure if joking, but men can get breast cancer. and if you want to create a topic for some other thing then feel free to do that! but this topic is for pride month specifically

I'm well aware. I was being sarcastic. Your post implied only women get breast cancer.

Zoey2070 wrote:

In lots of places, men who have sex with men can't donate blood due to "a higher risk of disease" and stuff (this possibly ties into Ronald Reagan Being Bad).

It's because around 50% of people with HIV are gay men.
Source from 2015

Zoey2070 wrote:

yeah and people misusing the word rape makes me kind of angry too... cuz, y'know, rape is a serious and traumatic topic and shouldn't be misused for something like having my capslock key on.

Zoey2070 wrote:

Please don't use it in this topic when referring to something that isn't actually the literal definition of it

Actually, it wasn't misused. Rape can mean violent, abusive, or plunder.

Zoey2070 wrote:

SEX|||||||||||||
LIFE|||||||||||||
HEALING||||||||
SUNLIGHT||||||
NATURE|||||||||
MAGIC/ART|||||
SERENITY||||||| [serenity if you can't see it]
SPIRIT||||||||||

None of these are exclusive to being gay. Actually, they have nothing to do with being gay.
Whatever, I guess, it just seems like someone felt the need to validate liking rainbows.

Zoey2070 wrote:

This is a category specifically for gay men who are "bears" aka big and hairy. The stripes represent color of furs found in nature.

This is insane. Again, whatever, but hairy gay guys need a flag?

Zoey2070 wrote:

white is sexual (or allosexual)

Isn't that the exact opposite of being asexual?

Enurp wrote:

treat everyone like a human being and stop putting a label on everyone for every little detail of their lives or who they are.

Reminds me of a tedtalk

tl;dw
humans feel the need to label everything, and put everything into categories.

Zoey2070 wrote:

yes, that is how interacting with people works. congratulations! you figured it out!

That's how some people think interaction works. Usually those that never leave their house.

Luka504, IanJanes

Different55 · 2018-06-03 03:16:11

Splitting this topic in half. This half will contain all the "Why gay pride" stuff.

Enurp · 2018-06-03 03:34:25

Different55 wrote:

Splitting this topic in half. This half will contain all the "Why gay pride" stuff.

That's pretty gay dude

TaskManager · 2018-06-03 11:38:35

Different55 wrote:

Splitting this topic in half. This half will contain all the "Why gay pride" stuff.

yay

again, any X pride month is bad, particularly gay pride month
if u want to be part of the normal human beings community then why are you advertising this stuff left and right?? it does the opposite, separating you from the community by making you a bunch special snowflakes
it's like vegans except u can't be criticized for doing it cause "muh oppression"

SirJosh3917

Slushie · 2018-06-03 13:10:42

TaskManager wrote:

Different55 wrote:
Splitting this topic in half. This half will contain all the "Why gay pride" stuff.
yay

again, any X pride month is bad, particularly gay pride month
if u want to be part of the normal human beings community then why are you advertising this stuff left and right?? it does the opposite, separating you from the community by making you a bunch special snowflakes
it's like vegans except u can't be criticized for doing it cause "muh oppression"

"If you want me to consider you a human being, stop reminding me that you're gay."

Norwee · 2018-06-03 13:12:39

TaskManager wrote:

again, any X pride month is bad, particularly gay pride month
if u want to be part of the normal human beings community then why are you advertising this stuff left and right?? it does the opposite, separating you from the community by making you a bunch special snowflakes
it's like vegans except u can't be criticized for doing it cause "muh oppression"

I might be biased for coming from an extremely different culture than most of the Americans here, but why does expressing solidarity with oppressed minorities make you seperated from your "community"? Where’s the harm? Why do so many people get angry at someone just for respecting the concept of a world without discrimination for something one cannot control? (that is, ones own sexuality). TBH i find your comment about being a part of an "normal human beings community" highly disturbing. It’s as if your suggesting anyone who puts on an bumper sticker of an rainbow flag or whatever on their car are not considered "normal" and should be shunned from society.
Most arguments i see from the people that want to remove gay pride awareness seems pretty weak imo. If you think it’s bad because it divides the "community" then it’s already pretty telling that you must be coming from an conservative area with people which doesn’t like being told that homosexuality exists and is anything but an sin to god or feared because they think it will make little Jimmy gay or whatever.
The reason gay pride exists is to spread the view for gay and straight people alike that you don’t have to hide who you are. If someone tells you they are gay it’s not because they want to "flaunt" their sexuality or be treated differently for it. They just want you to know that: "Hey, i like dating members of the same sex. And i hope your cool with that." They don’t want you to put them on a pedestal, they want you to treat them with the same respect as any other person, without them having to hide who they are. If anyone told me they were gay in an casual conversation i wouldn’t freak out, i’d just think "oh, Lucy is gay." and move on with my day. Not treat her more nicely because she has such an "special inclanation" nor cry foul. Just treat it as an fact of life. If she told me she liked the colour Orange i’d probably react the same.
That’s ultimately what gay pride is about, don’t treat anyone differently for their sexual orientation or think that anyone who doesn’t think Lucy is an freak should be given the outsider treatment, that’s so incredibly petty and stupid i wonder if the anti-gay crowd really formed their own personal stance towards this issue or whether they simply follow the group mentality of their particular church/community without much critical thought.

Zoey2070, Onjit

TaskManager · 2018-06-03 15:43:36

Slushie wrote:

TaskManager wrote:
Different55 wrote:
Splitting this topic in half. This half will contain all the "Why gay pride" stuff.
yay

again, any X pride month is bad, particularly gay pride month
if u want to be part of the normal human beings community then why are you advertising this stuff left and right?? it does the opposite, separating you from the community by making you a bunch special snowflakes
it's like vegans except u can't be criticized for doing it cause "muh oppression"
"If you want me to consider you a human being, stop reminding me that you're gay."

Let's not twist words left and right
"If you want me to consider you a normal human being, stop advertising your minority issues, just act as if it's normal."

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

I might be biased for coming from an extremely different culture than most of the Americans here, but why does expressing solidarity with oppressed minorities make you seperated from your "community"? Where’s the harm? Why do so many people get angry at someone just for respecting the concept of a world without discrimination for something one cannot control? (that is, ones own sexuality). TBH i find your comment about being a part of an "normal human beings community" highly disturbing. It’s as if your suggesting anyone who puts on an bumper sticker of an rainbow flag or whatever on their car are not considered "normal" and should be shunned from society.
Most arguments i see from the people that want to remove gay pride awareness seems pretty weak imo. If you think it’s bad because it divides the "community" then it’s already pretty telling that you must be coming from an conservative area with people which doesn’t like being told that homosexuality exists and is anything but an sin to god or feared because they think it will make little Jimmy gay or whatever

Respecting the concept of a world ... is completely fine, starting protests to express it, that is weird and unnecessary

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

The reason gay pride exists is to spread the view for gay and straight people alike that you don’t have to hide who you are. If someone tells you they are gay it’s not because they want to "flaunt" their sexuality or be treated differently for it. They just want you to know that: "Hey, i like dating members of the same sex. And i hope your cool with that."

I don't need to know their preferences, it simply doesn't matter in most cases and I'm cool with it, as long as it's not announced massively for no apparent reason. You don't see people protest for liking orange colour, do you?

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

That’s ultimately what gay pride is about, don’t treat anyone differently for their sexual orientation or think that anyone who doesn’t think Lucy is an freak should be given the outsider treatment, that’s so incredibly petty and stupid

Again, if it's completely normal and fine and shouldn't be treated with outside treatment (excuse my wording), which I believe it is, or at least should be, then we don't need these pride months

Jorc · 2018-06-03 16:44:40

after saw another fake genders

i should post this:

other genders that havent showed up included

Norwee · 2018-06-03 16:52:01

TaskManager wrote:

-starting protests to express it, that is weird and unnecessary
You don't see people protest for liking orange colour, do you?

About the necessity, protesting for acceptance of people who like the colour orange sounds silly doesn’t it? That’s because you used my example for something which it was not intended for. But let’s say an sizable percent of the population, about 90% likes the colour green, and 10% likes orange. Then later it turns out that people who like the colour orange instead of green are discriminated against, looked down upon. People who like green think it’s disgusting that some people like orange instead of the standard green. Some "green" parents send their "orange" kid to a conversion camp which harrases and beats the kids until they claim they no longer like orange. Some people in far away countries are executed and stoned for liking orange. Etc etc. Then later when people who like orange stand up and create an awareness month people ask why it’s necesarry and get confused as to why there needs to be an "orange awareness month". But think about it, isn’t all this historic outrage over people who like "orange, people that are gay, kind of an ridiculous overreaction of an literal non-issue? What does being gay do that is harmful towards society? Literally nothing, unless you’re trying to come up with some excuse to hate them. That is why this is a weird thread for me. You might say: "why do we have an gay awareness months" while i’m thinking: "why on earth do you care whether there is an gay awareness month unless you have some sort of reason for disliking them?" Do you take offense at the fact that gay awareness exists? Is that somehow annoying to you? Or do you literally don’t care that it exists? But if you don’t care... why do you care enough to complain about it?

Slabdrill

Bimps · 2018-06-03 17:02:18

EEJoranasc wrote:

after saw another fake genders
i should post this:
https://i.imgur.com/NdtNwqP.png
other genders that havent showed up included

wow how clever of u

Zoey2070 · 2018-06-03 17:03:05

EEJoranasc wrote:

after saw another fake genders

Hi, this infograph is wrong, and I've fixed it!

Please don't post stuff like this in this topic. This topic isn't for debating any sort of LGBT content. Go elsewhere to do that.

If you're confused about things outside of the gender binary ("male" and "female") please peruse this fact sheet that has actual medical references!

http://www.apadivisions.org/division-44 … -facts.pdf

People who are neither male or female exist, and have existed for centuries in multiple cultures. It's not a new thing!

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/maga … -identity/

here's a national geographic article about it too.

Most scientists in the relevant fields understand that identity isn't just "male" or "female", but a lot of the world is still trying to catch up to science.

drunkbnu, mutantdevle, Slabdrill, RavaTroll

Different55 · 2018-06-03 17:28:11

Split and merged the last few posts of the other topic. Please keep all content in the appropriate topic.

In case you guys missed my last post, this topic is for debate crap. For future reference, the non-debate topic is over here.

TaskManager · 2018-06-03 18:38:48

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

You might say: "why do we have an gay awareness months" while i’m thinking: "why on earth do you care whether there is an gay awareness month unless you have some sort of reason for disliking them?" Do you take offense at the fact that gay awareness exists? Is that somehow annoying to you? Or do you literally don’t care that it exists? But if you don’t care... why do you care enough to complain about it?

I find it unnecessary and I'm voicing my opinion, there's no strong line between care and not care (caren't?)

SirJosh3917 · 2018-06-03 18:49:49

call it what you will but there are biologically 2 genders, XX ( female ) and XY ( male ). after you prove that there are actually 3 chromosomes or that theres a Z and not just XY, i'll say that there's more then 2 genders.

y'all can go celebrate your rainbows and stuff though i don't mind. whatever y'all wanna do, go ahead and do it, i don't see a reason to care or stop you, and if someone is stopping you, i don't see a valid reason why they should.

just count me out though cuz i don't celebrate much of anything

Anak · 2018-06-03 19:20:28

ninjasupeatsninja wrote:

call it what you will but there are biologically 2 genders, XX ( female ) and XY ( male ). after you prove that there are actually 3 chromosomes or that theres a Z and not just XY, i'll say that there's more then 2 genders.

Well, first of all, I will say that intersex people exist [x, x] and that's a whole grab bag of gender/sex differences that deviate from XX female and XY male standards: XXY for example, as well as differences in genitalia and hormones.

A lot of the time people say that "there are only 2 genders" in response to transgender people and the whole transitioning process. Interestingly, though, it's been shown that brain activity in transgender people often reflects the gender they're transitioning to rather than the one they were assigned at birth. [x, x] As well as that, with intersex people specifically, it's quite clear that gender/sex in human biology is not as simple as one may think.

The animal kingdom is even more complex and varied than us humans. Many fish will naturally change sex throughout their lives [x] to maximise reproductive success throughout their lives [x]. Not only that, but XY chromosomes aren't even the only sex determination system, you can also have ZW, XO, etc. [x]

mutantdevle

some woman · 2018-06-03 19:21:01

ninjasupeatsninja wrote:

call it what you will but there are biologically 2 genders, XX ( female ) and XY ( male ). after you prove that there are actually 3 chromosomes or that theres a Z and not just XY, i'll say that there's more then 2 genders.
y'all can go celebrate your rainbows and stuff though i don't mind. whatever y'all wanna do, go ahead and do it, i don't see a reason to care or stop you, and if someone is stopping you, i don't see a valid reason why they should.
just count me out though cuz i don't celebrate much of anything

Since some people have significant gender dysphoria but not enough income to pay for a gender reassignment surgery, biological gender and (social?) gender can be quite different to them. Sex does not always mean gender when talking about transgender stuff.

edit: partially ninjad by anak? maybe

Anak · 2018-06-03 19:25:41

some man wrote:

ninjasupeatsninja wrote:
call it what you will but there are biologically 2 genders, XX ( female ) and XY ( male ). after you prove that there are actually 3 chromosomes or that theres a Z and not just XY, i'll say that there's more then 2 genders.
y'all can go celebrate your rainbows and stuff though i don't mind. whatever y'all wanna do, go ahead and do it, i don't see a reason to care or stop you, and if someone is stopping you, i don't see a valid reason why they should.
just count me out though cuz i don't celebrate much of anything
Since some people have significant gender dysphoria but not enough income to pay for a gender reassignment surgery, biological gender and (social?) gender can be quite different to them. Sex does not always mean gender when talking about transgender stuff.

Gender and sex can sometimes be synonyms but in this case we're talking about gender identity as opposed to biological gender/sex.

LukeM · 2018-06-03 20:10:48

IMO we should just say 'gender identity' or whatever when you mean that, as that would get rid of all the confusion and prevent arguments about there only being two genders. 'gender' would always mean your actual gender, and 'gender identity' would always mean what gender you identify most with.

Pingohits

SirJosh3917 · 2018-06-03 20:26:22

TL;DR

Anybody who is LGBT/intersex is a deviation from the norm.
I shouldn't have to pamper to anybody who is LGBT/intersex
Discrimination, victimization, harassment, bullying, physical or sexual abuse, being disrespected, and homelessness are problems that everybody faces, and it isn't limited to transgender people.
People who identify as neither should choose the gender they were born with, or look like the gender they want to be called.

______________________________

Anak wrote:

Well, first of all, I will say that intersex people exist [x, x] and that's a whole grab bag of gender/sex differences that deviate from XX female and XY male standards: XXY for example, as well as differences in genitalia and hormones.

I won't disagree with the fact that intersex people exist, but I will say that someone who is intersex/LGBT is deviating from the norm. LGBT people make up 10% of the population, and to me, 10% isn't being close to a majority. Neither is 25%.
If you disagree with the fact that being born with chromosomes different to XX or XY, ISNA claims that "about 1 in 1500 are intersex", and to me, 1/1500 doesn't seem like any kind of majority.

Now I have no problem with people being LGBT, as stated earlier, 10% of the population is LGBT ( approx 730 million ) and 1/1500 births are intersex ( 4.86 million ). But if you are trying to convince me that there are more then 2 genders, I fully disagree with you because LGBT/intersex people are simply minorities. LGBT/intersex people make up only 10% ( 0.8 million ) of the population LGBT/intersex

( Note: I prefer to 'you' as the group of people who identify as LGBT/intersex )

I don't mind if you don't identify as a male or female, and I'm sorry if you get offended if I call you a male/female when you really identify as something else, but you shouldn't expect me to care when you only make up 10% of the population. Grow a spine - I'm not going to let you be pampered to. Call it what you want, but it's a deviation from the norm.

Anak wrote:

it's quite clear that gender/sex in human biology is not as simple as one may think.

I agree, but not in the same way.
Sometimes mistakes ( unintentionally ) can happen, which leads to someone who has deviated from the rest.
We shouldn't pamper these people, they can be what they want and do what they want to do, that's fine, but I'm not going to comply with any of their demands simply because they're impaired.

Anak wrote:

The animal kingdom is even more complex and varied than us humans. Many fish will naturally change sex throughout their lives [x] to maximise reproductive success throughout their lives [x]. Not only that, but XY chromosomes aren't even the only sex determination system, you can also have ZW, XO, etc. [x]

That's actually pretty interesting, I didn't know about these. However, if you notice, each different chromosome pair in the end corresponds to "Male" or "Female".

some man wrote:

Since some people have significant gender dysphoria but not enough income to pay for a gender reassignment surgery, biological gender and (social?) gender can be quite different to them.

If you could elaborate on what end goal you're trying to prove, I'd be happy to debate.

LukeM wrote:

IMO we should just say 'gender identity' or whatever when you mean that, as that would get rid of all the confusion and prevent arguments about there only being two genders. 'gender' would always mean your actual gender, and 'gender identity' would always mean what gender you identify most with.

The problem is some ( not all ) would disagree that gender identity is different from biological gender, as seen from this class room of people who were taking a gender studies class.
I'm certainly not saying that every single LGBT/intersex is as aggressive and close minded as this classroom of students taking a gender studies class, but it'd be something to consider.

______________________________

I say that if you are an intersex person and you don't classify as either, you should classify as the gender opposite to whatever gender you feel an attraction to the most, or just look like the gender you want to be classified as. Bisexual? Choose the gender that you want to look like the most. Heck, I'd even be willing to offer a third gender spot for intersex people only - it's saddening that something so horrific happened to you. Anybody who is simple LGBT, though, and has no physical problem like intersex people do, should be the gender they were born with.

Please note, that even though someone who is LGBT/intersex is a deviation of the norm., this is no reason to treat them as someone that isn't a human being. Discrimination, victimization, harassment, bullying, physical or sexual abuse, being disrespected, and homelessness are problems that everybody faces, and it isn't limited to transgender people. We should still be able to get together and figure out a solution to solve all of these problems, and all of these issues can apply to everybody, white, black, LGBT, straight, short, tall, asian, mexican, hispanic, e.t.c and they are issues.

Official Everybody Edits Forums

#26 2018-06-02 06:35:31, last edited by Enurp (2018-06-02 06:46:00)

Re: Random LGBT+ debates 'n stuff

#27 2018-06-02 07:09:58, last edited by Zoey2070 (2018-06-02 07:10:55)

Re: Random LGBT+ debates 'n stuff

ON THE NEGATIVE CONNOTATION OF SOME WORDS

#28 2018-06-02 07:22:43

Re: Random LGBT+ debates 'n stuff

#29 2018-06-02 08:14:22, last edited by Luka504 (2018-06-02 08:15:40)

Re: Random LGBT+ debates 'n stuff

#30 2018-06-02 08:19:34

Re: Random LGBT+ debates 'n stuff

#31 2018-06-02 08:33:48

Re: Random LGBT+ debates 'n stuff

#32 2018-06-02 22:03:50, last edited by mrjawapa (2018-06-02 22:04:50)

Re: Random LGBT+ debates 'n stuff

#33 2018-06-03 03:16:11

Re: Random LGBT+ debates 'n stuff

#34 2018-06-03 03:34:25

Re: Random LGBT+ debates 'n stuff

#35 2018-06-03 11:38:35

Re: Random LGBT+ debates 'n stuff

#36 2018-06-03 13:10:42, last edited by Slushie (2018-06-03 13:11:08)

Re: Random LGBT+ debates 'n stuff

#37 2018-06-03 13:12:39, last edited by Norwee (2018-06-03 13:14:01)

Re: Random LGBT+ debates 'n stuff

#38 2018-06-03 15:43:36

Re: Random LGBT+ debates 'n stuff

#39 2018-06-03 16:44:40

Re: Random LGBT+ debates 'n stuff

#40 2018-06-03 16:52:01

Re: Random LGBT+ debates 'n stuff

#41 2018-06-03 17:02:18

Re: Random LGBT+ debates 'n stuff

#42 2018-06-03 17:03:05

Re: Random LGBT+ debates 'n stuff

#43 2018-06-03 17:28:11, last edited by Different55 (2018-06-03 18:03:56)

Re: Random LGBT+ debates 'n stuff

#44 2018-06-03 18:38:48

Re: Random LGBT+ debates 'n stuff

#45 2018-06-03 18:49:49, last edited by SirJosh3917 (2018-06-03 18:50:22)

Re: Random LGBT+ debates 'n stuff

#46 2018-06-03 19:20:28

Re: Random LGBT+ debates 'n stuff

#47 2018-06-03 19:21:01, last edited by some woman (2018-06-03 19:21:44)

Re: Random LGBT+ debates 'n stuff

#48 2018-06-03 19:25:41

Re: Random LGBT+ debates 'n stuff

#49 2018-06-03 20:10:48, last edited by LukeM (2018-06-03 20:11:16)

Re: Random LGBT+ debates 'n stuff

#50 2018-06-03 20:26:22

Re: Random LGBT+ debates 'n stuff

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