Mafia 13 game [TOWN WINS!]

mutantdevle · 2017-08-12 18:01:34

Okay I'd just like to start by saying @Luka, why are you being an idiot and attacking jkdrip here? Jkdrip was actually steering the lynch wagon away from you and directing it more towards jawapa and you decide to call him out for being suspicious? eh, what?

First of all your points about him not having any opinions of his own is just wrong. He pretty much started the idea of the lynch against me. Even if he was not the one who first voted for me, he was the one that put forth the idea of voting for me and essentially started that wagon. If that isn't his own idea then I don't know what is. Next he jogged our brains to realise that lynching jawapa would be good for information gain. I may have heavily expanded that idea but he was the one that first thought of it and prompted it. Finally, you criticised him for not saying a "hmm, maybe we shouldn't do this" type message and then criticised him when he said we should wait before lynching jawapa... You can't make an exception to something you criticise him for just because it's directed towards someone you don't like.

MrJaWapa wrote:

Devlin wrote:
All the other scenerios you mentioned are dramtically more unlikely than this one.
Not killing isn't unlikely, why do you keep saying that?

Because it is unlikely. The chances of all 3 Mafia being inactive or dumb enough to decide not to kill is just incredibly low probability wise. There is no tactical gain to not killing.

MrJaWapa wrote:

Devlin wrote:
I'm not really that connected to anatoly though am I?
Luka saying you and anatoly are town, everyone else is scum. That's suspicious as ****.

You keep taking that out of context. He clearly said that during his little tantrum that he was picked to be killed by a RNG. As a result he was being hyperbolic.

MrJaWapa wrote:

Devlin wrote:
You being scum will not prove AlphaJon being role blocker any more than you being town will prove Luka is the doctor. If you do flip scum how do we know AlphaJon didn't lie about role blocking you and you were just sacraficed as a teammate to make him look like town?
Right, so we're not going to learn ****!

You seem to consider that we only 'learn' things when there is 100% proof of it with no other options. If that's what you consider as us learning then the only thing we can every learn is someone's role when they die and have it read out by the game moderator. Well what I consider us able to learn is much more lenient than 100% probability as the clues given based on the information we have been told can allow us to discover and learn other things.

MrJaWapa wrote:

Devlin wrote:
With anatoly gone that leaves 2 other people who would have had to of been absent for there to be no kill. In case you havn't noticed I am very active so I would not have missed the kill option.
Inactivity is not the only reason a kill would not have been made.

There are only 5 reasons there could have been no kill:

The role block was succesfull - which you disagree with because it would mean you are Mafia.
Mafia targeted me and Luka saved me - which you disagree with because it would confirm both me and Luka to be the roles we say we are making you wrong.
A protective role saved someone - no one has claimed any other protective role so we will not know if this is a possiblity until they do.
All 3 Mafia were inactive - which you have just said isn't what happened.
All 3 Mafia decided not to kill - there is no advantage to the Mafia not performing a kill. No Mafia of basic inteligence would agree to do this.

So which is it? Your death will narrow down the options. Out of which tbh there is only 2.

AlphaJon wrote:

Lynching you will allow us to move on, along will the information that will come with your lynching.

MrJaWapa wrote:

What information?

How many times do I have to tell you? You can't just ignore what's there. If you really don't know then pay special attention to my point below.

MrJaWapa wrote:

What progress is going to be made by me being lynched?

1. We will have a better understanding of what caused the no kill on N1.
2. We will be able to better confirm what roles some people are.
3. We will not longer have to debate whether you are or are not Mafia since we would know. This is an issue that the town is fairly divided on.

Evilbunny wrote:

Evilbunny wrote:
Jawapa came up with a theory about anatoly and friends when there was no pressure on him. Anatoly turns out to be mafia. Now if you are voting to kill jawapa, ask yourself why he would do that, throw his team under the bus out of nowhere. He wouldn't.
@devlin respond to this

I already did. But I will say it again to save you the trouble of having to re-read:

It is possible that jawapa (or rather the Mafia) knew whatever drama was going on with anatoly. As a result they may have known that he was likely to be mod killed. Anatoly doesn't sound like he was someone who'd be willing to co-operate with the rest of the Mafia and as a result may have caused argument and problems in the Mafia chat. Anatoly is basically scum towards the Mafia. This means it would be a tactical move to be against anatoly so that they looked innocent when he was mod killed.

If you would like me to explain that better then feel free to ask (I feel like I poorly worded that).

Onjit wrote:

Honestly, I think that Luka is innocent, and that Jawapa is playing us for fools.
Either way, I'm not going to lynch our doctor.

Exactly. This basically sums up my thoughts.

jkdrip wrote:

I feel that JaWa's conspiracy theory is getting more and more viable.

Is your reason for that Luka's attack on you? If not then please explain. Personally I don't see that as further evidence to jawapas claim but okay.

MrJaWapa wrote:

If it adds weight to my claim, lynch me and see I'm town

Actually lynching you will, for the most part, disprove your claim either way. But yeah I do agree, we should lynch you. Even if you do flip town, your death will benifit the town.

Different55 · 2017-08-12 18:08:29

MrJaWapa wrote:

Proc asked for the last few words.

Then ignore him because that's a scummy way of playing the game.

mrjawapa · 2017-08-12 18:21:43

Devlin wrote:

disprove your claim either

How so

mutantdevle · 2017-08-12 18:23:12

MrJaWapa wrote:

Devlin wrote:
disprove your claim either
How so

I'll explain after you've been lynched if I need to. It's too much effort to write it out now because I don't need to defend myself right now.

mrjawapa · 2017-08-12 18:33:16

"Lynch him now I'll say why later"
Wtf...

mrjawapa · 2017-08-12 18:34:09

Ignore that, misread
Sorry

Different55 · 2017-08-12 18:35:45

Devlin wrote:

MrJaWapa wrote:
Devlin wrote:
disprove your claim either
How so
I'll explain after you've been lynched if I need to. It's too much effort to write it out now because I don't need to defend myself right now.

You need to knock it off with this kind of delaying. I've got no idea why you're all voting for JaWapa and if all you got is "cuz if he's scum then yay, but nah we dont' really have any reason to suspect him at all and if he's town well I'm sure knowing that will come in handy at some point just shut and and vote for him." If you're town you should be helping the town by giving as much info as you can without killing yourself.

Harmonious · 2017-08-12 18:58:55

Devlin wrote:

jkdrip wrote:
I feel that JaWa's conspiracy theory is getting more and more viable.
Is your reason for that Luka's attack on you? If not then please explain. Personally I don't see that as further evidence to jawapas claim but okay.

Jawa's theory

When Anatoly was confirmed Maf, that supported Jawa's theory. Every time Luka gets more suspicious, it ties into the theory. Nothing more or less, it's just convenient that the events that have transpired have tied into this so well.

mutantdevle · 2017-08-12 19:00:27

The information I am withholding I am doing so because it isn't relevant. The information is basically why you shouldn't lynch me if jawapa is town. We don't know what jawapa's role is yet, and no one is currently trying to lynch me (the votes are between jawapa and luka). Hence the information is not relevant. And diff your inability to even see where we are coming from in our push against jawapa is what makes you so suspicious to me.

Here's why I personally am wanting a lynch on jawapa, I have ordered it from least important to most important:

1. We share the "It's them or me attitude" towards each other. Jawapa has it in for me and luka so naturally I have it in for him. The easiest way to get him off my back is to have him dead.
2. His unwillingness to accept Luka as a doctor is also suspicious to me. Sure a few people have doubts about Luka but he seems to think that if we don't have 100% confirmation then he automatically isn't.
3. AlphaJon role blocked him last night and there was no kill. Many people agree that this makes jawapa a suspect.
4. Jawapa thinks the reason there was no night kill was because the Mafia chose not to. He obviously doesn't believe Luka's doctor story, he denies AlphaJon's role block was the reason and he's stated he doesn't think it was inactivity. The Mafia gain no advantage from not killing which makes it look like he only wants us to believe this so he doesn't look suspicious, which ironically makes him look suspicious.
5. Out of everyone we could possibly lynch right now, lynching jawapa will give us the most information. The information that we will gain from his death, regardless of his role, has been stated so many times... There are at least 3 players, myself included, that accept that to be a valid reason to lynch him even if he is town. If you are seriously saying that this information means nothing or that it simply doesn't exist, in my opinion, that makes you either delusional or scum.

So regardless of what jawapa flips, he is our best option for making progress in the game. That's why people want to lynch him.

Slabdrill

mrjawapa · 2017-08-12 19:17:28

Devlin wrote:

We don't know what jawapa's role is yet,

Vanilla town... said it many times

Devlin wrote:

Jawapa thinks the reason there was no night kill was because the Mafia chose not to.

Never said that's what I thought. I said that was a possibility.

Devlin wrote:

he denies AlphaJon's role block was the reason

Because I'm vanilla town

Devlin wrote:

The information that we will gain from his death,

Literally the only thing you will learn is that I'm town. Everything else is still speculation.

mrjawapa · 2017-08-12 19:21:54

Processor where tf are you

Processor

Harmonious · 2017-08-12 19:23:58

Jawa, I don't think we can just take you at your word. You've suggested yourself that this is a game of deception. Just saying "I'm vanilla town" isn't going to convince me you're vanilla town.
Also, yes everything we learn from your death will be speculation. But, valuable speculation.
I'll keep my vote on Luka for now, due to just how convenient Anat's death and Luka's suspicious actions are, but don't be surprised if I continue to switch between the 2.

Slabdrill · 2017-08-12 19:25:17

MrJaWapa wrote:

Devlin wrote:
The information that we will gain from his death,
Literally the only thing you will learn is that I'm town. Everything else is still speculation.

We don't need to be completely sure of something to make a good hypothesis of it.

mutantdevle · 2017-08-12 19:28:59

jkdrip wrote:

When Anatoly was confirmed Maf, that supported Jawa's theory. Every time Luka gets more suspicious, it ties into the theory. Nothing more or less, it's just convenient that the events that have transpired have tied into this so well.

But do you think I am town? If you do then that completely eliminates the theory. The only way his theory would have any ground is if I am scum also, which I assure you I am not. Lynching Luka would be a mistake right now, if we lynch Luka then we also lose AlphaJon. The Mafia are sure to go after AlphaJon now that they know he is the role blocker. As far as we know, Luka is the only one that can stop that happening. If Luka get's lynched then the Mafia will be comfortable in eliminated AlphaJon. However, if Luka survives the lynch then he will be able to protect AlphaJon, not only because oh his night ability but because the Mafia are likely to kill Luka so he cannot protect anyone in the future.

Whatever happens, Luka is not going to survive the night. If Luka does survive the night then I do agree it would be suspicious and I would start looking into him myself for a possible lynch on D3. But we need to keep Luka alive because he is the only way the town will have any power in protecting our role blocker that we know of.

AlphaJon, as an exposed role blocker, is arguably the most valuable player we have right now. We need to protect him and keep him alive. Jawapa is our safest option for the lynch to keep AlphaJon alive. If we lynched Luka and he turns out to be the doctor then we will also lose our role blocker in the same night. Do you really want to lose 2 power roles with 1 bad mistake?

But if we lynch Luka and find he is indeed Mafia, then that would mean we still probably have a hidden protective role who is sure to protect AlphaJon. So basically, if Luka is Mafia and we do not lynch him, AlphaJon will probably survive anyway.

If you agree with me that AlphaJon should be kept alive and as a result we should lynch with his fate in consideration, think of it like this:

If both Jawapa and Luka are town and doctor and we lynch Luka: Then AlphaJon is almost guaranteed to die.
If Jawapa is scum and Luka is the doctor and we lynch Luka: Then AlphaJon is almost guaranteed to die.
If Jawapa is town and Luka is scum and we lynch Luka: There is still a chance AlphaJon could be saved by a real protective role.

If both Jawapa and Luka are town and doctor and we lynch Jawapa: Then AlphaJon is almost guaranteed to live.
If Jawapa is town and Luka is scum and we lynch Jawapa: There is still a chance AlphaJon could be saved by a real protective role.
If Jawapa is scum and Luka is the doctor and we lynch Jawapa: Then AlphaJon is almost guaranteed to live.

As you can see, in all 6 situations we have a better chance of AlphaJon, aka the role blocker aka our current known most valuable player, seeing the light of the next day and potentially prevent night kills. This isn't just about if we should lynch Jawapa or Luka anymore, we have to consider how badly the town as a whole would be damaged from their lynches. And I consider there more to be lost from voting Luka than there is from voting Jawapa.

MrJaWapa wrote:

Devlin wrote:
We don't know what jawapa's role is yet,
Vanilla town... said it many times
Devlin wrote:
Jawapa thinks the reason there was no night kill was because the Mafia chose not to.
Never said that's what I thought. I said that was a possibility.
Devlin wrote:
he denies AlphaJon's role block was the reason
Because I'm vanilla town
Devlin wrote:
The information that we will gain from his death,
Literally the only thing you will learn is that I'm town. Everything else is still speculation.

I've stated I am town many times, but you don't believe me do you? You going to have to think of a better defence than that.

jkdrip wrote:

but don't be surprised if I continue to switch between the 2.

Not to add any pressure but Jawapa is at L-1 again is he not? (or L-2 I lost track). So if you do change your mind back to jawapa you're going to have to strongly consider it; though feel free to change your mind but not your vote

The TLDR of this post is basically AlphaJon has more chance of surviving if we lynch jawapa. And I'd argue that AlphaJon is currently worth more than Jawapa based on his (alleged) role.

Harmonious · 2017-08-12 19:29:01

Jawa, why do you keep asking for Proc to post? I get that he's pretty suspect, but I don't understand why you want specifically his input so much.

mutantdevle · 2017-08-12 19:30:06

^^ especially since, from my understanding, Proc is in more support of me than him.

Harmonious · 2017-08-12 19:34:29

Alright, you've convinced me.
I checked, he's at 5 votes rn. Onjit's the only person to vote since maxi's last tally.
!vote Jawa

mutantdevle · 2017-08-12 19:37:01

Oh okay. Just out of interest did you change your vote because you genuinely think he is Mafia or because you think his lynch is the most tactical option?

Personally I am not 100% convinced that Jawapa is indeed Mafia (based on what he's said and also how I have a tendency to doubt myself easily), but it is the most tactical for the town.

Slabdrill · 2017-08-12 19:39:58

I'm not too sure if jawa is mafia (i'm inclined to think they arent; hard to tell with how much people lie) but i'm willing to take the risk to have some confirmed roles

@jawapa what do you think is the reason for there not being an N1 kill?

mutantdevle

Harmonious · 2017-08-12 19:40:48

I haven't confirmed Jawa to either side, but I'm leaning maf. It's mostly speculation, but I'm not a fan of a number of his reasons for his actions. They seem pretty shoddy.
Weak reasoning I guess, but check out his posts in isolation and I think you'll see what I mean.
And yes, it is strategically advantageous.

mutantdevle

mrjawapa · 2017-08-12 19:42:08

I think you're full of ****

Proc needs to post because I want him to. Why is that bad?

TaskManager · 2017-08-12 19:43:37

Vote count:

[6] MrJaWapa - Devlin, Luka504, hummerz5, Slabdrill, Onjit, jkdrip (L-1)
[2] Luka504 - MrJaWapa, Evilbunny
[1] Processor - Gosha

7 votes needed for majority.

Harmonious · 2017-08-12 19:44:24

MrJaWapa wrote:

I think you're full of ****
Proc needs to post because I want him to. Why is that bad?

This is kind of what I mean. You're not explaining your actions.

mrjawapa · 2017-08-12 19:47:19

Slabdrill wrote:

@jawapa what do you think is the reason for there not being an N1 kill?

Only one m af member could kill, and was inactive
All of them chose not to kill, for whatever reason
They tried to kill but hit a night immune
They tried to kill but a doctor saved target
They were role blocked

I believe alpha role blocked me, I don't believe luka is doctor.

I think the most likely is they all chose not to make a kill

jkdrip wrote:

I haven't confirmed Jawa to either side, but I'm leaning maf. It's mostly speculation, but I'm not a fan of a number of his reasons for his actions. They seem pretty shoddy.
Weak reasoning I guess, but check out his posts in isolation and I think you'll see what I mean.
And yes, it is strategically advantageous.

You change your mind every three posts. Gtfo

mrjawapa · 2017-08-12 19:48:02

jkdrip wrote:

MrJaWapa wrote:
I think you're full of ****
Proc needs to post because I want him to. Why is that bad?
This is kind of what I mean. You're not explaining your actions.

What explanation is needed to want someone to post? That's it. I just want him to post.

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