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#1 2015-08-18 21:49:11, last edited by skullz17 (2015-08-19 17:40:31)

skullz17
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Joined: 2015-02-15
Posts: 6,697

When and why did minimap art become an important aspect in a world?

Isn't it just a feature for players to see where they are/where to go in a world? Why have I, and many other players, been making the minimap look nice first and then focusing on in-game stuff such as minis? Shouldn't the in-game content of the world be priority? And why did I think it was normal for minimap art to be one of the most important parts of a world all these years??

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edit: This is about playable levels. This doesn't include art-only maps.


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#2 2015-08-18 22:03:17

soulrunner
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Joined: 2015-03-10
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Re: When and why did minimap art become an important aspect in a world?

Introduction of mini maps. Done. Question finished.


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#3 2015-08-18 22:08:39

SmittyW
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Joined: 2015-03-13
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Re: When and why did minimap art become an important aspect in a world?

I've found that focusing on in-game art often produces nice mini-map art as well.

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#4 2015-08-18 22:08:39

0176
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From: Brazil
Joined: 2021-09-05
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Re: When and why did minimap art become an important aspect in a world?

Art was always focused on the minimap from the very beginning; see EX Crew's first maps, for example.
In fact, I only began to see people valuing ingame art recently. Older maps are full of keys and ugly decos so that the minimap's shinier.

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#5 2015-08-18 22:09:52, last edited by Creature (2015-08-19 00:49:33)

Creature
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Re: When and why did minimap art become an important aspect in a world?

Yeah, today minimap = everything.

You can make the best gameplay ever but if you don't have a good minimap art players won't enjoy. I see my minis being rated by it's art instead of it's play.

I wished there was an option to disable minimap in your world, then everyone would play instead of judging the world by the minimap art.

Example of what people ignore these days.


This is a false statement.

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#6 2015-08-18 22:23:04

skullz17
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Joined: 2015-02-15
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Re: When and why did minimap art become an important aspect in a world?

I just find it weird. Like when you play a game, you want to enjoy the gameplay. You also want it to look nice. But there's no minimap that you think should look nice. I guess I can understand why you would want the map to look nice in EE, but what I find weird is valuing minimap art over in game content. I look at my old worlds and see them look alright on the map but really ugly in game. I just don't understand why I did that.

Back then I probably thought of a world as art accompanied by some minigames which have nothing to do with the art. But now I think of a world as an adventure or a challenge, which places the player in a specific setting. That setting shapes the art. Basically a playable landscape


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#7 2015-08-18 22:25:31

Calicara
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Joined: 2015-02-16
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Re: When and why did minimap art become an important aspect in a world?

When EE was in it's origins there were no such things as decorations, and the block palette was a scant few basic and beta blocks. With those kinds of tools in game art was difficult, if not almost impossible, hence the focus on minimap art. What tools players lacked to make art in game, they made up for by decorating the minimap.

However, now that we have been given the tools to make successful in game art, I am highly against the philosophy of valuing minimap art (with the exception of maps which serve only to be art, such as the likes of Dazz, Chiscory, etc...) I think for a game setting the in game art should be valued over the minimap art, because the in game art is what players immediately see.

Although, I could certainly understand the importance of minimap art to some, I do think it's time for a change. Successful art cannot be judged on that sole factor alone.


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#8 2015-08-18 22:33:04, last edited by Swarth100 (2015-08-18 22:42:44)

Swarth100
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Joined: 2015-07-18
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Re: When and why did minimap art become an important aspect in a world?

At times it's even worse... Most people here on the forums won't even check out a world that seems to have bad minimap art. No way to convince them they'll enjoy the level.... They just won't play it.

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#9 2015-08-18 23:21:35, last edited by MIHB_casts_confuseplayer (2015-08-18 23:32:53)

MIHB_casts_confuseplayer
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Joined: 2015-03-22
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Re: When and why did minimap art become an important aspect in a world?

Ah, a history of EE question, where my having been around forever is relevant.

This actually has a simple answer: in-game art used to be pretty much impossible.  No decos, few block packages, we didn't even have backgrounds until about a year and a half after the game was introduced.

Minigames are fine and all, but a minigame is nothing more than an "obstacle" unless you can make it part of a world.  A minigame that represents a bunch of arrows and blocks in a certain combination is fine.  The exact same minigame, except in the context of 'you are trying to climb a tree' or 'make your way across a ravine', is much better.  Context improves levels so much, and it used to be virtually impossible to provide that context within the level itself.  The minimap was used to provide context, and so it made sense to make the minimap look really good.

IMO the mistake comes when minimap art comes at the expense of the in-game content, such as having keys everywhere to provide shading, which looks awful when you're actually playing the level.  But going back to the initial question: why focus on making the minimap look good first and then focus on the in-game content?  Because back then, the minimap was the best way to create context, and context makes everything better.  Starting with in-game content and then working on the minimap to provide context was extremely difficult to do well.  Creating art, then building minis off the art, is much easier to do than to make minis then create art around the minis. 

Generally the only way to go minis -> art is to use a setting of some sort of building, because the minis can usually be squeezed into some sort of squarish room shape.  For examples, look at our (EX Crew) original maps: most of the maps were built art-then-minis to a large degree.  The biggest exceptions were the Pro maps, which started with the minis.  If you look at the maps for Rainbow Roadrage and Are You a God, you can see that almost all the minis have a basic "box" shape, and that the art was then built with a bunch of boxes in mind.  However, we also had lots of buildings in our other maps, such as Illusion, because it was always a hell of a lot easier to make minis if you could take a random box and make something in it.  Even Forgotten Veil, a map that came out much later and had much more integrated art and minis, was still essentially a bunch of boxes in rooms in buildings.

For a map like Fall of Zeal, the gameplay was a mix of "box minis" and art-based minis: the box minis are generally stronger because the gameplay is built with no concern for the 'terrain', but the terrain-based minis felt more organic and more like you are exploring a world.

Now, full disclosure: I think we have enough tools to make good context within a level, and any level made these days that has a good looking minimap is probably not as good as it could have been if the minimap had been completely ignored.  But it is hard to change the way people build maps overnight, and it might take a while longer before the "pretty minimap" goes the way of the dodo.

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#10 2015-08-19 00:46:39

Tamashiimizu
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Joined: 2015-03-28
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Re: When and why did minimap art become an important aspect in a world?

Like everyone said, there was no way you could create good in-game art years ago. Put some "Smiley" block with a flower above, and some christmas decorations below? yeah try again

Also, the minimap says quite a lot about the world itself. If you see a blanc space with some lines; probably a boss. If you see a lot of boxes together, expect 50~200 minis. If you see a column of large rectangles; probably a hotel, and so on. In this aspect, it is so important (in my point of view) that we have now a "Preview" option in the lobby.

Last but not least, minimap art was and still is a good way for expressing yourself. Today you have better in-game art, you have signs, but sometimes you can't express somethings without minimap art.

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#11 2015-08-19 02:04:10

Minimania
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Re: When and why did minimap art become an important aspect in a world?

The only thing I'm seeing here that looks incorrect to me is the prejudice against maps with bad minimaps/maps that give no context.

And that isn't entirely true, either. I took a look at MIHB's map Megaman Dash for the first time not knowing what I was going to get myself into. Next thing I knew it was a featured world with thousands of plays. I enjoyed it.


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#12 2015-08-19 03:48:44

Aoitenshi
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Re: When and why did minimap art become an important aspect in a world?

Personally, minimap art serves as a presentation to catch players' "Ooooo". In order for players to be interested to play your world, they'd have to be presented with a cake with icing first, not much players are interested when presented with a cake without icing no matter how delicious they may be.

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#13 2015-08-19 04:10:46

Schlog
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Joined: 2015-07-21
Posts: 1,906

Re: When and why did minimap art become an important aspect in a world?

Aoitenshi wrote:

Personally, minimap art serves as a presentation to catch players' "Ooooo". In order for players to be interested to play your world, they'd have to be presented with a cake with icing first, not much players are interested when presented with a cake without icing no matter how delicious they may be.

That is a really weird analogy.

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#14 2015-08-19 05:47:40

BEE
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Joined: 2015-03-14
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Re: When and why did minimap art become an important aspect in a world?

Uh... I did/do minimap art because it was fun to basically have an interactive MSpaint. Then later it was because people kept saying that good art couldn't be done using the limited palette so it was more of a challenge.

So I guess my reasons are different than everyone else's.


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#15 2015-08-19 06:20:12

Kirby
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Re: When and why did minimap art become an important aspect in a world?

It's kinda, sorta, somewhat like adding a hook to an essay. You want to draw the player in, and the minimap is the quickest way to do so.

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