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Gikkle

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Joined: 2022-09-05

Posts: 126

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

I'm most likely going to be at school during EOD tomorrow, so I'm going to say some quick thoughts before bed.

Shadow's claim seems like a slip and also Lumi was suspicious of MM, ShadowsEdge, and Mini, and now they're dead.

If Shadow flips town, that's when we should start reevaluating slots like 2B/Gandhi.

!vote ShadowsEdge

oh, I was sniped
!unvote shadowsedge

what

He took the l-2 vote from me
Now I can't vote till nearer to EoD

Gikkle

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Joined: 2022-09-05

Posts: 126

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

Did you trust Lumi more than you scumread Elijah?

yes

hm
ok

Gikkle

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Joined: 2022-09-05

Posts: 126

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

and wouldn’t it be helpful to town if you say there’s 2 mafia in the game at the very start? just like how Pqwerty claimed anti-town? what reason is there to hide it? the only reason i can think of is to not let people mistake you as a mafia, but the same can be said to Pqwerty who claimed anti-town.

I didn't learn that there was 2 mafia at the start of the game, so I couldn't have said D1 that there were 2 mafia.

I'll just openly state my role. My role is Informer, I can check one person to see if they were visited by the mafia for that night, I went on MM, who was visited by Mafia, given that Lumi was also definitely visited (due to it being the only kill and the fact that Mafia would not want to miss a kill in a game like this), that means that there are 2 mafia. As mentioned previously, Norwee did say there were up to a maximum of 3 mafia (including the traitor), hence, the issue was trying to find if there were 1 or 2 mafia (discluding the traitor).

Also important to note that I dont see these for the Traitor (explicitly stated in my rolecard).

I didn't want to claim because while most often the role could be pretty useless, it can help to clear some people of at least not being a part of the mafia team (such as MM). Though this doesn't clear them of being the Traitor as the Mafia can still visit the Traitor. My information is also why i've been more trusting of MM in D2 because I knew that they weren't part of a team despite everyone being convinced that they were.

But day 1 is when you said the thing we've been talking about?

Gikkle

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Joined: 2022-09-05

Posts: 126

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

and wouldn’t it be helpful to town if you say there’s 2 mafia in the game at the very start? just like how Pqwerty claimed anti-town? what reason is there to hide it? the only reason i can think of is to not let people mistake you as a mafia, but the same can be said to Pqwerty who claimed anti-town.

I didn't learn that there was 2 mafia at the start of the game, so I couldn't have said D1 that there were 2 mafia.

I'll just openly state my role. My role is Informer, I can check one person to see if they were visited by the mafia for that night, I went on MM, who was visited by Mafia, given that Lumi was also definitely visited (due to it being the only kill and the fact that Mafia would not want to miss a kill in a game like this), that means that there are 2 mafia. As mentioned previously, Norwee did say there were up to a maximum of 3 mafia (including the traitor), hence, the issue was trying to find if there were 1 or 2 mafia (discluding the traitor).

Also important to note that I dont see these for the Traitor (explicitly stated in my rolecard).

I didn't want to claim because while most often the role could be pretty useless, it can help to clear some people of at least not being a part of the mafia team (such as MM). Though this doesn't clear them of being the Traitor as the Mafia can still visit the Traitor. My information is also why i've been more trusting of MM in D2 because I knew that they weren't part of a team despite everyone being convinced that they were.

But day 1 is when you said the thing we've been talking about?

post #97 Shadows

Gikkle

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Joined: 2022-09-05

Posts: 126

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

Intuition

what

Gikkle

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Joined: 2022-09-05

Posts: 126

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

!unvote

Gikkle claimed mason here, and then a few posts later claimed to have protection (which i'm assuming would be along the lines of a bulletproof role?)

even the mason claim by itself was sketchy considering the only person who could back them up on it would be Bon Jovi, someone who has made a whopping four (4) posts so far

Shadow's informer claim is weak, but i don't think letting Gikkle be the one to hammer is a wise idea before they explain why they made two contradicting claims

i'm up way too late but i'll check back in when i wake up to see what Shadow and Gikkle have to say

I'm not going to elaborate.

If you don't trust me bc I said I had protection, idc, that wasn't the point of me saying it. The point was making sure protectives don't waste an action protecting me. I'm not sure what you think scum me would gain from discouraging protectives?

Gikkle

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Joined: 2022-09-05

Posts: 126

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

After sleeping, I sort of feel like Shadows is just being confusing instead of necessarily scum aligned. I've seen too many players like him and rarely do I get the satisfaction of them flipping scum.

Assuming he *is* town, that means mafia visited MM n1. My guess is Roleblocker, Neopolitan, Motion Detector, or some other kind of PR Hunting/Manipulating role. I can’t think of many roles in a lower power role list like this that would visit a fellow mafia? If town had a lot of KP they could have a rolestopper or bus driver. If town had a lot of invests it could be a tailor. I don't think either of those are true though.

Thus MM is likely not mafia (could be the traitor)? If shadows is town. Which I'm beginning to view as the case.

!vote minimania

Gikkle

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Joined: 2022-09-05

Posts: 126

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

Don't feel like catching up today soz
!vote shadow

I don't like this.

Gikkle

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Joined: 2022-09-05

Posts: 126

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

After sleeping, I sort of feel like Shadows is just being confusing instead of necessarily scum aligned. I've seen too many players like him and rarely do I get the satisfaction of them flipping scum.

Assuming he *is* town, that means mafia visited MM n1. My guess is Roleblocker, Neopolitan, Motion Detector, or some other kind of PR Hunting/Manipulating role. I can’t think of many roles in a lower power role list like this that would visit a fellow mafia? If town had a lot of KP they could have a rolestopper or bus driver. If town had a lot of invests it could be a tailor. I don't think either of those are true though.

Thus MM is likely not mafia (could be the traitor)? If shadows is town. Which I'm beginning to view as the case.

!vote minimania

@shadowsedge @elijahbaley @grilyon2 @pqwerty @nuclear gandhi @BuzzerBee @2b55b5g  @marshmallow marshall

Gikkle

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Joined: 2022-09-05

Posts: 126

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

After sleeping, I sort of feel like Shadows is just being confusing instead of necessarily scum aligned.

im still having a hard time believing this, "intuition" just seems like a last ditch effort to save himself after contradicting himself

if he flips town, me, buzzer, and gandhi are probably suspicious
if he flips mafia, MM is probably suspicious

we get info either way, i dont see why we're voting someone with no votes with less than an hour left

I think saying that "intuition" is a last ditch cover up is a bit of a stretch. If he was a wolf he wouldn't just say that, knowing he was under fire and had the most votes. I also think if he was wolf he wouldn't have forgotten this was a DAY 1 post we're talking about. First thing I do as wolf if someone calls me out like this is find the post in question. The fact he acted like it was something he said day 2 shows a carelessness that is more common among townies.

You cannot lynch a PR claim (that you have reason to believe is town) as an information lynch. That’s not how this works.

Gikkle

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Posts: 126

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

The people I got patently bad vibes from are Minimania and Marshmallow Marshall. Well, and you, to a degree.

was there anything specific for Minimania?

Mini is someone I've seen good and bad from.

Lumi's very last post sort of sums up the bad. I feel like Mini has been very hedgy, only took a firm stance when it was about a potential serial killer, and even though they said they wanted to find town, I haven't seen a lot of worldbuilding with their town reads in mind. They've shared a lot of *thoughts*, but they aren't really doing anything with those thoughts. I also thought the hierarchy idea was an attempt to just look helpful but that's not a very strong point.

As for the good.... Their thoughts are very in depth. I can see where they are coming from. It's possible for a wolf to fake the level of depth mini has shown but it does leave me with some doubts about Mini being scum.

Ultimately I can't confidently say Mini *will* flip scum. I just don't really think there are any really good alternatives at this point in time.

Gikkle

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Joined: 2022-09-05

Posts: 126

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

!vote Shadow

This is at least better than a no lynch.

Gikkle

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Joined: 2022-09-05

Posts: 126

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

I find this very unfortunate
I will now go be sad

Gikkle

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Joined: 2022-09-05

Posts: 126

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

Oliwaz are you masons with Gikkle?

The answer is no. I lied to see how people would react. And to see if maybe I could bait mafia into killing one of us (specifically Bon Jovi) out of fear of there being two near confirmed townies.

I had already intended to reveal this today, oliver replacing in probably makes this look a bit awkward though.

Though I don't think anyone who actually thinks about this for more than 5 seconds should fine it scummy so I'm not really worried.

Gikkle

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Posts: 126

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

Elijah looks like they might have copped minimania as a green check

Gikkle

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Joined: 2022-09-05

Posts: 126

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

Elijah looks like they might have copped minimania as a green check

Yeah 99% sure this is the case

Could be godfather or tailored... Not sure how common those roles are on this site.

Gikkle

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Joined: 2022-09-05

Posts: 126

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

Well since the cop is dead, my role info doesn't help the mafia anymore.

I'm the Miller and I didn't want the mafia to know there was an investigative role to hunt down, so I kept my role a secret. I am no longer anti-town.

Why not claim Miller? Investigative is already something mafia would probably reason exists, and not claiming Miller means the cop could have checked you and wasted an action.

Gikkle

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Posts: 126

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

Knowing that ShadowsEdge flipped as a Traitor Watcher, I think it's kind of important that we pay attention to what information Shadow is comfortable with pushing here. Obviously he wasn't a Town Informer, but it's likely he felt comfortable claiming it because he had a role that could pretty much do the same thing, and he could lie about the details as he wants. He says that he checked MM and found that someone had visited him. It could've been any player in the game, and yet I get the feeling that it might've been Elijah.

The biggest problem with my theory is that, when pushing Buzzer and MM, Elijah decided to push Buzzerbee's slot first. Why go on and tell people to vote Buzz first, and then MM if it was a more certain thing for MM to be Mafia? It just doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

However, Elijah never relented on his scumread of MM, not even once. So I admit, I'm really suspicious of MM right now. I realize that it's probably pretty risky trying to read too far into Shadow's post, but it sounds plausible that someone visited MM Night 1, and I think it might help disambiguate who Elijah checked if someone that visited MM Night 1 could step forward.

Not sure I understand. Shadows' fake claim would have worked even if it was only himself visiting MM. How do you get Elijah visiting MM from that?

Also, if he did get a red check on MM, I'm fairly certain Elijah would have pushed it way harder.

Gikkle

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Joined: 2022-09-05

Posts: 126

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

Well since the cop is dead, my role info doesn't help the mafia anymore.

I'm the Miller and I didn't want the mafia to know there was an investigative role to hunt down, so I kept my role a secret. I am no longer anti-town.

Why not claim Miller? Investigative is already something mafia would probably reason exists, and not claiming Miller means the cop could have checked you and wasted an action.

I was really hoping the anti-town claim would deter this because I really didn't want this worst-case scenario to happen. The best strategy would've been to claim miller and then have everyone else claim cop, but that strategy hasn't been accepted in past games when I suggested it so I figured claiming anti-town would just be best.

Fair enough.

Gikkle

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Joined: 2022-09-05

Posts: 126

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

Not sure I understand. Shadows' fake claim would have worked even if it was only himself visiting MM. How do you get Elijah visiting MM from that?

Also, if he did get a red check on MM, I'm fairly certain Elijah would have pushed it way harder.

I'm not sure I understand the point of a role that can visit someone else and learn if they were visited that night if you always counted, because then every check would be positive. Thus, I concluded that someone else visited him.

Is this some different form if watcher than what I'm used to?

Gikkle

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Joined: 2022-09-05

Posts: 126

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

Oliwaz are you masons with Gikkle?

The answer is no. I lied to see how people would react. And to see if maybe I could bait mafia into killing one of us (specifically Bon Jovi) out of fear of there being two near confirmed townies.

I had already intended to reveal this today, oliver replacing in probably makes this look a bit awkward though.

Though I don't think anyone who actually thinks about this for more than 5 seconds should fine it scummy so I'm not really worried.

I'm having a hard time trying to place myself in a headspace where I'm mafia and I want to off you for your claim; Masons aren't lovers, and with your claim to have protection, it seems like it'd have been a moot point to go after you anyway. So no I don't really think you're scum for this claim, I don't really buy that this was just bait since it seemed more like a deterrent than anything.

I thought they might conceivably go after Bon Jovi (if the slot is town),  who from their PoV, while inactive, could be replaced by a really strong player, and would be confirmed town on top of that.

Bait wasn't the biggest part of it anyways though. I mostly wanted to see how readily people would believe the mason claim.

Gikkle

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Joined: 2022-09-05

Posts: 126

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

Not sure I understand. Shadows' fake claim would have worked even if it was only himself visiting MM. How do you get Elijah visiting MM from that?

Also, if he did get a red check on MM, I'm fairly certain Elijah would have pushed it way harder.

I'm not sure I understand the point of a role that can visit someone else and learn if they were visited that night if you always counted, because then every check would be positive. Thus, I concluded that someone else visited him.

Is this some different form if watcher than what I'm used to?

I might be confusing this role for something else. Isn't Watcher the role that can check someone to see if they were visited that night?

The Watcher I'm familiar with sees the names of all visitors.

Gikkle

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Joined: 2022-09-05

Posts: 126

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

Oliwaz are you masons with Gikkle?

The answer is no. I lied to see how people would react. And to see if maybe I could bait mafia into killing one of us (specifically Bon Jovi) out of fear of there being two near confirmed townies.

I had already intended to reveal this today, oliver replacing in probably makes this look a bit awkward though.

Though I don't think anyone who actually thinks about this for more than 5 seconds should fine it scummy so I'm not really worried.

I'm having a hard time trying to place myself in a headspace where I'm mafia and I want to off you for your claim; Masons aren't lovers, and with your claim to have protection, it seems like it'd have been a moot point to go after you anyway. So no I don't really think you're scum for this claim, I don't really buy that this was just bait since it seemed more like a deterrent than anything.

I thought they might conceivably go after Bon Jovi (if the slot is town),  who from their PoV, while inactive, could be replaced by a really strong player, and would be confirmed town on top of that.

Bait wasn't the biggest part of it anyways though. I mostly wanted to see how readily people would believe the mason claim.

Buzzer and Jovi aren't S/S for what it's worth.

Gikkle

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Posts: 126

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

I think BB was the only person who doubted your claim Gikkle. Idk if this is WIFOM territory, but the fact that you're still alive could mean that the mafia believed you and didn't kill you. Hence BB couldn't be mafia since he didn't believe your claim. Is this too speculative?

It means wolves didn't believe me and saw me as a potential mislynch (or just otherwise not worth killing), or they did but had a kill in mind that took priority over a mason (maybe they rolecopped Elijah, or maybe they had a non-mechanical reason for it).

For the first case - it means wolves are either aligned with Jovi, know Jovi's role somehow as town, or somehow figured out via logic that I wasn't being truthful about the mason claim (dunno how likely this is for anyone except MM, who has played with me before in a game where I've done a reaction fish).

For the second case - It means they either had a good reason to kill Elijah for a non-mechanical reason (I'll have to think for a while about what this could mean), or they found elijah was cop bc of a role cop or vanilla cop (totally plausible in a role list like this).

Gikkle

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Joined: 2022-09-05

Posts: 126

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

My first read: MM is scum.
Im sad Gikkle dropped the Mason claim. Either he thinks im stupid or hes scum

I don't think you're stupid . I did actually think you would probably catch on if I continued it and would play along, but I had already intended to drop the claim at the start of today. If you hadn't replaced in, I would have done the same thing.