Mafia 51 - Secret Weapon [TOWN + GLADIATOR + SURVIVOR WIN!!!]

mutantdevle · 2022-07-13 22:19:12

!sleep

mutantdevle · 2022-07-13 22:26:50

Norwee wrote:

Not limming allows the opressor to mess with the votes tommorow.

And if I am the oppressor just lynch me day 4? By that time we'd 100% know the truth.

Norwee wrote:

I'd probably be in it as an pointless option neutral with no wincon + two townies.

You can be a honourary townie <3

mutantdevle · 2022-07-14 11:34:16

Norwee wrote:

AND he is bulletproof.

It is the most basic level of kill protection. There are literally so many roles in the game that can bypass it.

And as I've said, I think it makes perfect sense to be bulletproof because it forces pressure onto lynching me. And once I do reach a state where everyone knows I'm town, if I get placed in the oppressor pool it limits the options from 3 down to 2.

Norwee wrote:

Minimania knows how to design a good and balanced setup.

You are assuming this setup is supposed to be balanced. Sentinels, flagbearers, mayor and realtor can all verifiably PROVE they are town. That is 4 potential innocent childs. On top of that, we have several powerful investigator roles and, with the exception of the cop, all of their results are guaranteed to be accurate. Meanwhile, the mafia's only real power is an oppressor and a goon, both of which they can lose. Most of the third parties are also quite weak until later in the game so it is only mafia + third party that poses a threat rather than either being a threat on their own.

The basic conclusion here is that this setup is very clearly designed to be fun and interesting rather than balanced.

mutantdevle · 2022-07-14 11:35:32

N1KF wrote:

Norwee is trying to guilt trip me
And it's working
!vote mutantdevle

And here was me thinking we were friends

mutantdevle · 2022-07-14 11:41:53

All of these claims are provable within a day. As soon as any of us 4 dies we will all know the truth. Literally the only reason we'd have to lynch me today is if we wanted to give Norwee the win. And as much as it sucks that Norwee is gonna die, we lose the game if they don't. Voting me right now is so anti-town that it's stressful. Besides Era and Onjit, I'm almost certain that the third mafia member will be on this wagon too. If I do get killed during the night, and honestly, I'm kinda hoping I do, then please blitz everyone who has voted for me since the sentinel claims on my behalf.

mutantdevle · 2022-07-14 11:44:37

mutantdevle wrote:

Norwee wrote:
AND he is bulletproof.
It is the most basic level of kill protection. There are literally so many roles in the game that can bypass it.

Just to further emphasise my point here, I had a look through the roles and literally the only killing roles that can't touch me are the Serial Killer and the Goon. Every single other killing role would go straight through my protection.

mutantdevle · 2022-07-14 18:56:41

I'm gonna repeat myself here but this is yet another reminder that this entire situation is immediately resolved as soon as any of myself, era, onjit or althea dies. Anyone who thinks that a flagbearer claim is worth risking is inherently anti-town.

You're right, in the hypothetical where I am a mafia flagbearer, I'd 100% not put myself in the voting pool tomorrow. But that literally changes nothing. You'd just lynch me day 4 instead and althea day 5 - if someone hasn't night killed us already.

This whole idea of "we need to do this lynch now or by the time we lynch him it will be too late" is completely ludicrous.

mutantdevle · 2022-07-14 21:44:51

I find it so incredibly hard to believe that we ever make it to day 4 without

A) One of us 4 dying.

B) Us gaining any other kind of information that can prove who is town.

mutantdevle · 2022-07-14 21:49:19

2B55B5G TNG wrote:

!vote Mutant

Your constant vote switching isn't what I find sus about you, it's the fact that you don't seem to care about the possibility that this could end the game for you. Not once have you ever mentioned any fear over that possibility to the point where it kinda feels like that doesn't matter to you.

mutantdevle · 2022-07-14 21:50:12

2B55B5G TNG wrote:

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/ … nknown.png

We can just lynch Onjit or Althea instead, neither of them are claiming to be important roles.

mutantdevle · 2022-07-14 21:51:27

Era wrote:

And honestly your claim that I just randomly picked a flagbearer for the town is fairly ridicilous.

I've never said that you picked me because you either thought/or knew I was a flagbearer. This is 100% a coincidence that's turned out in your favour.

Era

mutantdevle · 2022-07-14 21:55:15

ZeldaXD wrote:

then we're basically losing two days

The mafia isn't our only threat. There is guaranteed at least 1 third party that poses a genuine threat to us. Any days spent not resolving this situation (aka, just tomorrow) can be spent looking for the pestilence.

mutantdevle · 2022-07-21 19:00:40

Minimania wrote:

I was too worried about the power of the Oppressor, I overcompensated in favor of town.

I think the main flaw with this approach is that we didn't have a night kill. Even if I could use my ability on day 2, the lack of a goon meant that overall we were less powerful than the classic 3 vanilla mafia members with 1 night kill between them. I think at the very least we needed an investigative ability to gather information and potentially influence our oppressor pools. Besides that, we just got unlucky that I was the one who was given the important role. Almost anyone else in my position would have lived much longer.

Minimania wrote:

I feel Semi-open setups are king. The benefit of making the game a little more mysterious, allowing for speculation (like the speculation around there possibly being a Voodoo or an Arsonist) cannot be understated.

I agree. Semi-open is definitely my favourite type of setup. Too closed means that players are just guessing in the dark about what's going on and completely open means that people have to work within very specific rules. Though, I think you were a little too restrictive with the roles that were on offer in this semi-open setup. The *only* option I had was to accuse Era of lying because there were literally 0 roles which could have possibly messed with his investigation results. There is absolutely 0 logic to someone randomly falsely accusing someone like that, so it was always an impossible sell. The town actually having a sentinel was just the nail in the coffin. Even if you didn't have a role capable of redirecting people or falsifying investigation results, by explicitly confirming no such roles exist it severely limited our options.

Additionally, you had too few roles for mafia. Mafia needed a lot more 'possible' roles that were variants of town roles. Almost all of the town could 100% prove they are town just by proving their night abilities are real. Each time those town roles would claim, the only thing that stops them from being confirmed as town is if someone counterclaims. All that achieves is a 50% chance of killing the actual town role first but inevitably sacrificing the false counter-claimer in the process. The neutral roles will never sacrifice themselves like that and the mafia don't have enough members to keep doing that either. So the number of confirmed town players would just keep increasing until the game could be solved through process of elimination. Ironically, the only way for the scum factions to counter that would be if they were able to collectively kill more people per night. The only way the town would ever have lost this game is if nobody ever claimed.

That said, I did have a lot of fun playing. Fighting for your life immediately is much more thrilling, and of all the ways to lose, I'm 100% glad it wasn't through a slow and drawn-out process of elimination. Norwee is also a very worthy opponent and it is genuinely impressive how much influence they had over the situation despite effectively not being able to vote. It was also really nice to play with a whole bunch of new people who take the game seriously but not so seriously that it stops being fun

Norwee wrote:

If Mutant is scum then this marks the second game where they as scum say: "I’m going to post less due to busy but dw i’ll still get in the walls y’all know and love wink wink ))kr"

I have to say that this comment did bother me a little. I didn't say anything during the game because there was no way of addressing it without people analysing it. I get that you said it as part of your building a case to have me lynched but I would NEVER use irl circumstances as a tool for manipulation and no self-respecting player of mafia would either. I planned on opening the game with that statement regardless of my alignment. Although I tend to enjoy playing as mafia more than town, I was hoping to have a chill game and I was very uncomfortable with just how active I was forced to be in this game. I would have been much less active if it wasn't for the amount of pressure I felt to keep fighting knowing that the consequences of if I didn't was letting my entire team down who literally lost the game if I died.

There was definitely ups and downs for me this game in terms of the ways in which I was and was not enjoying it. I might scuttle off back into retirement because this game has made me realise that it's unfair for me to keep playing whilst not wanting to put as much effort in - the hand you are dealt in terms of what role card you get and what actions other people take is uncaring towards such a desire. So I'm not certain that playing mafia works for me anymore. That said, it has reawakened in me my passion for setup design and hosting. But idk if there's a market for that or if this game was just a one-off - I guess it entirely depends on if the new people decide to stick around. Though, the few ideas I've had are flexible in terms of how many people can join so if I were to host a game there'd be no real player count requirement. Regardless, I'd have to consider even that as, although hosting is less pressure in some ways, it is definitely more pressure in others too.

Era

mutantdevle · 2022-07-22 00:20:28

Era wrote:

mutntdevle: fwiw, as I had never played mafia before investigating you wasn't really a play on your previous behaviour, but rather that I sinply though your line of "I'll make sure you don't regret keeping me alive or so" was kind of suspicious
orherwise didn't really know whom to investigat, kind of funny that I was so effective in my investigations this game.

That’s what made it worse! I couldn’t even wholeheartedly make the argument that you were scum wanting to get rid of me as soon as possible because it was sooo obvious that you were new to the game. Literally the only thing that nearly kept me alive was the flagbearer and sentinel claims because there was literally no logical argument we could make against it 😢

Also, if I were to host a game there’d definitely be very little if any flavour. Not that I could live up to Mini’s efforts anyway

Era

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#26 2022-07-13 22:19:12

Re: Mafia 51 - Secret Weapon [TOWN + GLADIATOR + SURVIVOR WIN!!!]

!sleep

#27 2022-07-13 22:26:50

Re: Mafia 51 - Secret Weapon [TOWN + GLADIATOR + SURVIVOR WIN!!!]

#28 2022-07-14 11:34:16

Re: Mafia 51 - Secret Weapon [TOWN + GLADIATOR + SURVIVOR WIN!!!]

#29 2022-07-14 11:35:32

Re: Mafia 51 - Secret Weapon [TOWN + GLADIATOR + SURVIVOR WIN!!!]

#30 2022-07-14 11:41:53

Re: Mafia 51 - Secret Weapon [TOWN + GLADIATOR + SURVIVOR WIN!!!]

#31 2022-07-14 11:44:37

Re: Mafia 51 - Secret Weapon [TOWN + GLADIATOR + SURVIVOR WIN!!!]

#32 2022-07-14 18:56:41

Re: Mafia 51 - Secret Weapon [TOWN + GLADIATOR + SURVIVOR WIN!!!]

#33 2022-07-14 21:44:51

Re: Mafia 51 - Secret Weapon [TOWN + GLADIATOR + SURVIVOR WIN!!!]

#34 2022-07-14 21:49:19

Re: Mafia 51 - Secret Weapon [TOWN + GLADIATOR + SURVIVOR WIN!!!]

#35 2022-07-14 21:50:12

Re: Mafia 51 - Secret Weapon [TOWN + GLADIATOR + SURVIVOR WIN!!!]

#36 2022-07-14 21:51:27

Re: Mafia 51 - Secret Weapon [TOWN + GLADIATOR + SURVIVOR WIN!!!]

#37 2022-07-14 21:55:15

Re: Mafia 51 - Secret Weapon [TOWN + GLADIATOR + SURVIVOR WIN!!!]

#38 2022-07-21 19:00:40

Re: Mafia 51 - Secret Weapon [TOWN + GLADIATOR + SURVIVOR WIN!!!]

#39 2022-07-22 00:20:28

Re: Mafia 51 - Secret Weapon [TOWN + GLADIATOR + SURVIVOR WIN!!!]

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