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Minisaurus

Banned

Re: EEU is like Gunz 2: The second duel?

Why do you think we are unaware of the flaws? I'd like to think that we are very aware of them. The problematic physics is a very well documented thing which is why everything physics related is not set in stone at this stage of development. I guess it may appear like we are ignoring those flaws because we've not actually done anything physical to fix or change them yet, but we definitely do plan on changing them.

That response was totally evasive and not clear.
1. Not quite sure what are the flaws that the staff is aware of.
2. Not quite sure what are the flaws that the staff is planning to change.

3. Are those really flaws?
(A flaw could be seen by the eyes of the staff as something that works fine||Something that works fine could be seen by the eyes of the staff like a flaw).

I would really like to know what are the flaws that the staff actually is planning to change as there is really few details about it. I know sometimes the staff don´t want to reveal those details to the community. But it is really spooky to think how much time ahead are we talking about of when those flaws are actually going to be changed and there is the chance that the changes going to be made end up being even "worse".

mutantdevle

Moderation Team

From: Hell

Joined: 2015-03-31

Posts: 3,848

Website

Re: EEU is like Gunz 2: The second duel?

I would really like to know what are the flaws that the staff actually is planning to change as there is really few details about it.

I don't know what you mean about evasive since I was just responding to a point you made and not a question you have for me, but I can certainly answer this:

1. The physics - we are very aware that the physics in EEU do not feel as fun as EE's and we want to rectify this. In particular, the jump/auto jump mechanic is quite problematic but this is not the only issue. We have not had much of an opportunity to continue experimenting with the physics due to developers being busy with other things (whether that be other things in EE/EEU or other things in their lives) but the physics remain, as they always have been, in development. The physics are going to be subject to change throughout EEU Beta.

2. Xeno being the subject/cause of drama - there are currently no issues amongst the staff team in terms of working with Xeno and we intend to keep it that way. I think Xeno's relationship with some previous staff members was damaged a long time ago and never recovered so having an almost completely new staff team has resulted in a less toxic environment. Xeno's relationship with the community is also very damaged to the point that it's pretty irreparable at this point. I do think that Xeno has made progress in this department, for example, his arguments with LukeM in the EEU server are a lot less toxic than they used to be, but ultimately this is why a community manager is needed which will result in fewer opportunities for Xeno to get into arguments with people. Whilst a lot of people would like to see Xeno step down as owner as a solution to this issue, I do agree that there isn't really a clear successor. So in the meantime, helping Xeno to improve upon his flaws is the best thing to do because I do think his ideas and vision for the game are something to get behind.

3. Slow development speed - as EEU relies on volunteers for its development, we unfortunately have the problem that developers will not be able to work on the game consistently. Whilst previous developers suffered from motivational issues that could be attributed to Xeno, I don't think the current developers suffer from the same problem. Lucifer has been working very hard on EEO as, unlike other developers, he has the free time available to devote to it. Unfortunately for us, he will no longer have time to work on the game in a few months time so he is just a short term beaming ray of hope that we all appreciate and not a solution to this issue. Going forward we definitely need more developers, and ideally ones that can work on the game more consistently.

4. Inconsistent moderation - EE is not moderated very consistently. The rules are vague and it isn't clear what rule breaks deserve what punishment. And how should punishments scale for repeat offenders? We've made progress in this department such as fixing mutes so we no longer have to ban players for minor chat offences and introducing multiple new staff to the moderation at once has definitely allowed the enforcement of rules to be more consistent. Moving forward, we are going to treat EEU as a fresh start for moderation. We plan on having proper documentation that outlines what the various rules are, examples of what does and doesn't break each rule, what kind of punishment you'll receive for breaking each rule, how severe each rule is, and how punishment scales for repeat offenders. This will be available publically so everyone can have a full understanding of the moderation system.

5. Communication with players - Whilst I do think a good job has been done in regards to sharing what the plans are for EEU's future, I also think there are areas to improve. As has been highlighted in this thread, there is an issue where a lot of information about EEU is scattered into various locations and I think it would benefit everyone to have all of that information clearly laid out and displayed in one place which I plan to do personally when I get a few hours to do so. We've also stopped giving out timeframes for when certain things will be completed by because we have accepted that we can't trust that not everything will go to plan and we don't want to give the community false hope. I do also think we could do a better job of communicating when we don't have anything to update y'all with - the previous approach of just remaining silent when there's no good news naturally isolates the community.

6. Community engagement - When everyone is waiting for news and updates sitting around with nothing to do is naturally going to be boring. The easter egg hunts were a good idea to keep up community engagement for a while but I think they got stale after a while. Right now, the only thing that would really keep people engaged would be if they are a Patreon supporter which is a very small percentage of people and not good enough. It would have been nice if there had been a contest in EEU by now but there just hasn't been the development to support that. We've had some discussions about how to keep the community involved with the game and essentially we'd like to involve you with the development side of things more - but that's hard to do when the development is so inconsistent.

7. Keeping the game simple but refreshing - This is more a flaw with EE than it is of EEU but it's definitely something that will be hard to balance from a game design point of view moving forward. I'd definitely say that EE isn't very welcoming to new players due to its amount of content. EEU currently isn't very welcoming either as it relies upon people's knowledge of EE to understand it. This is fine for now but if we want to grow the player base it will definitely need to be properly addressed at some point down the line. In regards to the implementation of mechanics, how to keep things simple and not confusing is frequently addressed when discussing future features so I think EEU is good in that regard but there EEU's presentation still needs a bit of work for the sake of new players.

8. Responding to feedback - We definitely listen to feedback/suggestions but we can do a much better job of responding to it. It's hard to respond to feedback when what is suggested is either already planned but not something we want to publically reveal yet or if all we can say is "we will consider it". Oftentimes we can't take immediate action to feedback so in that regard it's difficult to show how we are listening.

This is just the stuff I can think of off the top of my head. I'm sure there are other issues/concerns that I have missed so feel free to highlight those and I can say what we are doing about them but please don't think that we are somehow not aware of our flaws because that is not the case at all. I understand that for many people the solution to some of these problems is simply to replace Xeno but just because that isn't what's happening it doesn't mean that we are ignoring the problems.

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Minisaurus

Banned

Re: EEU is like Gunz 2: The second duel?

Are you representing the whole staff in those points?
Or are those your own speculations that are not yet approved by the staff popular vote?

mutantdevle

Moderation Team

From: Hell

Joined: 2015-03-31

Posts: 3,848

Website

Re: EEU is like Gunz 2: The second duel?

Are you representing the whole staff in those points?
Or are those your own speculations that are not yet approved by the staff popular vote?

A mix of both. Points 1, 3 and 7 regularly appear in staff/patreon meetings, points 5 and 6 aren't necessarily the subject of meetings but are things we have conversations about in between (eg. people randomly suggesting things). Point 2 is something I have spoken to Xeno about on numerous occasions mostly in private with him but I do remember 1 conversation about it in the staff chat. Point 4 was an issue I raised when joining the team. The stuff I outline in that point is our action plan as a result of the discussion we had and I think the immediate outcome of that was getting the mute command fixed within the next few days. And finally point 8 is mostly just my analysis of the staff team - I held that opinion before joining staff and becoming staff has only reinforced it.

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Minisaurus

Banned

Re: EEU is like Gunz 2: The second duel?

I feel like if those points has been being promised by the staff for very long time, even if they didn´t.
I look forward to see the staff to actually start to enforce those points eventually on the future. (Rather a too later future than a too too later future)
It is hard to believe the staff due the continued noncompliance with its obligations with the community.