Mafia 33 [Friday Wins!]

Different55 · 2019-10-20 14:23:34

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

Different55 wrote:
Anyone who ISOs you and views your posts in context with mine can see it.
See what?

Different55 wrote:

NorwegianboyEE wrote:
Also Diff, how many times do i need to say that i never had a strong townread on you?
Dearest, you can say it as many times as you want but we're not allowed to edit posts here. Anyone who ISOs you and views your posts in context with mine can see it.

Strong, maybe not, but you only ever mentioned leaning town towards me.

Just so we don't all have to go digging:

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

Diff needs to say something allignment indicative so i can townbin him.

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

NorwegianboyEE wrote:
And yes i agree about Diff. In fact he hasn’t voted a single time yet. An way to avoid any negative attention maybe? That’s why i was hesistant to townlean him.
Different55 (My initial instinct says town, but i don't have a strong enough read to be confident in placing him as one yet. I'm going to need more time to confidently sort him.)

Not even a hint of pushing me in the maf category. You agreed with everything I had to say and encouraged me to act in ways that would let you count me as town like you wanted.
Also my bad, you didn't do your lightning 180° on me as soon as I voted for you, that only happened after NoNK came along voicing such strong opposition to me. Before that you were still downright passive towards me:

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

Now you just need to explain why you suspect me and you're in the game Diff.

Interesting snippet from said NoNKpost:

NoNK wrote:

The slow speed of the suspicion on diff is scum indicative.

Then what do recent events indicate? Within 15 minutes we had 3 votes. Went from everyone (Norboy included) generally townreading me to the conversation being completely derailed for a person nobody even really suspects except for NoNK.

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

Suits who exactly? Can you give names?

Oh I'm struggling. You either really think I'm a cop role or that I'm straight up psychic. Why is your response to everything an immediate interrogation of who is scum? Right now my main suspicions are you for flipping so quickly and NoNK for seemingly ordering you to do so.

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

There were no clear signs that he was town, the speed in which the wagon gained momentum could be explained by mafia bussing him as well.

It is generally agreed that the speed and intensity of Peace's lynch were highly suspect. Bussing him is one thing, this obviously wasn't that. In this game you bus someone by just going along with the crowd, not by turning it into a big visible event.

Different55 · 2019-10-20 14:29:00

ShadowsEdge wrote:

Diff brought up about Norwegian was that they were being too aggressive, and disregarded Peace's claim as town and pushed on anyways

Mm, not quite. Wasn't about Peace's claim, Peace can claim whatever he wants, like Norboy tried to poorly point out:

Different55 wrote:

NorwegianboyEE wrote:
Btw i'm a townie. Haha! I claimed it! Now there's no way i'm mafia!!
...This isn't helping. D1 is over now, even Kira claims he's going to be getting serious.
The wagon on Peace was obviously backed by maf. L-1 twice within 4 hours. That should have been *everyone's* giant neon sign that we were on the wrong track. But everyone pushed on, you notably claiming that you didn't care that Peace was probably a townie. Not because he said so, but because the maf was obviously pushing for that particular lynch.

It was more about the likeliness of scum pushing heavily for his lynch and Norboy outright saying he didn't care if peace was a VT.

Different55 · 2019-10-20 14:44:19

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

Regarding my "quick 180" i put you as null.

That's a stretch.

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

Did you see how many woots NoNK’s post on Kira got?

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I wasn't a fan of going after Kira either, that's why I went after you. I wanted to wait and see how he got serious. Still kinda waiting but.

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

So now that i convinced NoNK to switch his vote to Diff then suddenly there is a lot more opposition, ergo: scum doesn’t approve.

First legitimate point from you that's actually had me concerned. Not because you're right, but because someone might think you are. There's opposition because nobody, including you, suspects me. There is opposition because 3 votes came rushing at me within minutes of each other, and that's as suspicious as the events we had with peace yesterday.

Actually that'd be a kinda funny play. Scum all finding a generally agreeable guy, speedvoting him out of nowhere, then pointing at the unsurprising opposition as "look, we must be on the right track"

Different55 · 2019-10-20 15:23:15

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

Are you trying to play some sort of mind games now?

Heck I mean I'm not saying you're a complete friggin' puppet but as we now all know, you never publicly suspected me in the slightest, consistently saying things along the lines of wanting to townread me, not scumread me, til NoNK came along and posted his reads. I respected those reads until you went and held my scumread up as total fact out of nowhere. You're even trying to retcon all that now.

Again, Like I've Said From the Beginning and in Which I Have Not Wavered or Tried to Misrepresent, I didn't even suspect you all that much initially. I thought you were playing too aggressively and were too dismissive of the thought of lynching a townie, and you didn't have any votes on you. Now we've got you pulling whiplash-inducing 180s and trying to retcon that after the fact to try and make it seem less sudden.

And what do you actually have on me? Literally nothing? Because when I've prompted you for what made me suspicious before you just said "lol learn to read." And when prompted by other people:

Onjit wrote:

Onjit wrote:
My question is this: What are we set to gain from a Diff lynch, over say a Jawp or Kira lynch? Both are also quite suspicious imo.
Repeating this question because it seems to have been ignored/missed

Twice now, it gets ignored. I don't know how you could be more suspicious.

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

Yeah, that would be very funny. Because that's not what's happening at all.

Ain't it? I mean that is pretty much exactly what's happened here. Even NoNK recognizes that.

Different55 · 2019-10-20 15:23:57

NoNK wrote:

NoNK wrote:
I realize I'm probably just doing this for "I told you so" points and we are probably going to have to mislynch today in order to hit mafia but still like come on man, I call out what I see
!vote Different55
If kira gets momentum I'll go there but currently just trying to not lynch norwegian sigh

in the face of everything, why are you so confident he's not scum?

Different55 · 2019-10-20 15:55:43

Kira wrote:

mrjawapa wrote:
Just want to point out that Daneeko is still following Nonk.
Every vote Nonk has cast, Daneeko followed. Some of them were just a couple minutes later.
I'm really seeing a NONK / Norboy / Daneeko Mafia team right now, I'm ready to bet anything one of them AT LEAST is mafia.

It's super suspect but that seems way too easy. NoNK and Norboy seem way too competent to do that but then again at least in Norboy's case he should have been competent enough to not do like. Any of the things I'm currently scumreading him for.

Mildly concerned that you two are agreeing while also being pretty high up on the scum lists.

Different55 · 2019-10-20 16:10:18

@Task

Been mostly trying to avoid thinking about NoNK. On the one hand he seems to be puppeting Norboy, who had no issue with me at all, no matter what he claims now, until NoNK posted his reads. Norboy still has failed to find any actual issue with me.

That kinda puts NoNK in an odd position from my PoV. Seems like if Norboy is being puppeted by someone, and if I'm scumreading Norboy, then his puppetmaster must also be scum. But I don't get much of anything from NoNK. Only concern I have is that he's so seemingly confident that Norboy must be town despite all the suspicious moves he's made. To the point of putting his vote back on me just to "shield" Norboy, which really solidifies that there is *some* connection there for me. Before it could have just been oddly one-way but without some sort of justification, establishing the connection as two way is highly suspect.

Different55 · 2019-10-20 16:10:57

@Norboy I'm not confident y'all aren't backing down having bitten off more than you could chew. You have no answers for any of the questions sent your way.

Different55 · 2019-10-20 16:34:01

Bleh. I'm not satisfied that Norboy isn't scum. His actions are way too suspicious to ignore. Not caring if a townie gets lynched, trying to go after me using his own prompts as "evidence," trying to retcon his past posts, just the speed of his turn on me after your post, there's no way we can simply shrug and move on anyway. We tried that once already. And I'd say currently Norboy currently is the more popular lynch. Still need to hear more from more people but.

That said I don't intend to let town go without a lynch today. I'm not moving my vote, but only not yet.

I'd be okay with lynching Kira if only for the reason that if he flips town I don't think either of you can talk your way out of it. I still don't have any real read on him from his little he's posted.

Different55 · 2019-10-20 16:36:06

NoNK wrote:

@Different55
I guarantee you that mafia is banking on a town imploding as their strategy to win this game, and I say that is for a few reasons:
1. Crybaby got nightkilled. Crybaby had zero game content in his ISO.
2. The people who I scumread (Kira, Jawapa, Shadowsedge) are sitting back and remaining largely background characters or totally uninvolved (shadowsedge) in the main conflict of the day, or casually sitting back and adding fuel to the fire (Kira).
3. Kira is going absolutely BONKERS at the fact that Norwegianboy and I are working together to try to solve this game. Town working together wins games. The fact that he calls out Norwegain / NoNK / Daneeko as scum because we are all on the same wagon should be very indicative of where his motivations lie: fuel the fire of the town conflict, prevent anyone from working together. Scum thrive in chaos.

I agree that this is a real possibility, yes.

Slabdrill wrote:

I'm concerned about the no one really having answered Onjit's question, because I think it's good to consider what can be gained as information from the flip of a specific person. (I'd give it a try, but that takes more thinking than just going through everyone's iso once)
Still undecided on who I want to vote for.

4 times it's been asked now.

Different55 · 2019-10-20 17:02:19

I'm not convinced that Daneeko is anything but a clueless newbie yet.

I'm not seeing the lines of reasoning between the rest of what you're saying.

I will keep my vote on you unless the town will nolynch without it elsewhere or unless something drastic happens.

Different55 · 2019-10-20 17:06:28

To expand on what I said earlier, I'm okay lynching Kira because I don't think you guys can talk your way out of it if he flips green. If we lynch you and you flip green then there's a large base of suspicious actions that anyone can dig into to to justify their actions. It's more dangerous for you to be wrong about Kira than anything else, which is why even though I find you painfully suspicious with no justification for being so, I will accept a Kira lynch since flipping green basically guarantees you're scum imo.

Kira

Different55 · 2019-10-20 17:16:02

NoNK wrote:

Different55 wrote:
To expand on what I said earlier, I'm okay lynching Kira because I don't think you guys can talk your way out of it if he flips green. If we lynch you and you flip green then there's a large base of suspicious actions that anyone can dig into to to justify their actions. It's more dangerous for you to be wrong about Kira than anything else, which is why even though I find you painfully suspicious with no justification for being so, I will accept a Kira lynch since flipping green basically guarantees you're scum imo.
No, I don't accept those terms. To say that I, as town, need to have perfect knowledge of people's alignments in order to be proven town is completely backwards. What are you smoking?

You can't be proven town except by getting lynched. I'm offering you no terms, no way for you to be confirmed town. I'm only saying that if Kira is not red, you are.

NoNK wrote:

I would rather just lynch norwegianboy and have him flip green so then I can get my actual scumreads lynched tomorrow, if this is the moonlogic we're playing with now.
Because if and when norwegianboy flips green, there's no way Kira/Jawapa can talk himself out of supporting that lynch, and now he's the bad guy.

I'd agree with you if Norboy hadn't dug himself a deep little hole today. Something you still have completely disregarded.

Different55 · 2019-10-20 17:17:17

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

Wouldn't it be a **** strategy if me and NoNK was on the same scumteam and we'd both risk our lives on voting someone that we know will flip green?

Ugh fair. Hold on lemme sit down at a non-phone and go over everything again

Different55 · 2019-10-20 17:38:28

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

I had that same fear about you NoNK, but i've put those aside because i highly doubt there is any scum motive in your posts. It is in the interest of the town to co-operate in finding scum. And because you're my strongest townread i have openly allied myself with you. Because two town votes are stronger than one and can sway the town into the right direction.

In a game where the the whole tagline is basically "trust nobody" this reads like you two trying to lampshade your connection.

Still writing up a whole brain dump

Different55 · 2019-10-20 17:39:17

NoNK wrote:

@mrjawapa, kira, different55
Trying to re-read this day and pick out exactly what is being argued is legit making my eyes bleed and I feel like I'm just going to hilariously misinterpret everything.
For the sake of absolute clarity, could I get a tl;dr of the points against norwegianboy, explained like I just joined this game?

working on it.

Different55 · 2019-10-20 18:29:50

▼Recap to get my thoughts in order

Mafia 33 through the eyes of a Diff

Day 1:

Peace does some random crap calling out a scum team. Maybe he's trolling, it's D1, after all. I thought that he doubled down in later posts making him seem serious but I can't find those anymore.

Norboy draws comparisons between Peace's behavior and a past game where he played mafia.

Peace wagon builds, punctuated by a few rapidfire L-1s (by Daneeko and Kira) and backpedalling (by Norboy and Onjit) which scream mafia approval of the wagon.

Peace claims vanilla townie. Norboy hammers Peace saying he doesn't mind if we lynch a townie, despite the strong evidence (see above) that we're barking up the wrong tree.

D2

Starts off as a normal day. Kira says he'll get serious.

I denounce the previous day's wagon. I am prompted by Norboy to place my vote. I vote for Norboy, feeling that he's the strongest scumread I have that doesn't already have votes. Primarily because of his disregard for the evidence we had that the Peace wagon was backed by scum.

Up to this point, Norboy has generally been townleaning, only wanting me to be more active. Maybe he's starting to get a bit defensive now that I've placed my vote on him.

NoNK posts his read list, with me highlighted in red.

Norboy switches his vote to me to "gauge how people react." Within 15 minutes NoNK and Daneeko have done the same. Even those "rapid-fire" L-1's peace hit yesterday were spaced in terms of hours.

He has no reason to actually suspect me. When questioned about what makes me suspicious or what there is to gain, despite this subject being brought up countless times now, it always goes ignored. The most he's been able to point at is my actions that were done with his prompting, trying to twist that into evidence I'm scum, somehow.

Meanwhile, Norboy is trying to pretend he's never had me as even town leaning. As linked above, this is plainly not the case. The speed of his change of heart, his attempted retconning of his past posts, and his complete refusal to answer direct questions about his suspicions do not look good.

Norboy picks up another vote. NoNK suggests they move their votes back to Kira, saying he now believes I'm not scum at all. Could be what he actually thinks, could be realizing that they were never going to get the support to lynch me.

NoNK switches his vote back to me, "currently just trying to not lynch norwegian sigh." There's no reason given for his loyalty to norwegian and he hasn't offered any up since.

So as far as my suspicions for Norboy:
Complete disregard for the neon sign saying we were about to lynch a townie.
The rapid change of opinion of me, with no event causing it besides seemingly NoNK's post.
His attempt at erasing his past posts, trying to change their meaning now that it works against him.
Refusal to answer any questions about his reasoning, despite being asked multiple times by 3+ different people now.

Okay that's past events. As far as things as they are right now, Norboy and Nonk clearly have some kind of connection that goes beyond "Eh I think he's town, sure."

I don't have any strong opinions on Kira but I want him to post more. Kira and Jawapa both have a reasonable amount of non-suspicious suspicion, and both are advocating for a honestly really painfully obvious Nonk/Norboy/Daneeko scum team.

I'm not sure if ZeldaXD actually still exists.

Onjit is strongly town IMO. His reasoning is generally solid and he asks the hard questions that refuse to get answered even when repeated multiple times even by other people.

I need to read up on Kira more to see how he's been interacting with things. Based on what others have said he sounds like a competent player. I don't oppose the Kira bandwagon but will only join it if there aren't any more attractive options, unless I find something of my own when going through his interactions.

I don't have strong feelings about JaWapa but others do.

I have more I'm writing up but I need to get going, be back in like 8 hours. Probably drop in a few times along the way.

Different55 · 2019-10-20 18:39:35

I'm not gonna write it yet again. Iso my posts, most recently I explained it to shadow. Heck the explanation is in my summary right there. Even you yourself said it was suspicious as heck, hope you're not making snother retcon attempt.

Different55 · 2019-10-20 18:52:40

Kira wrote:

NorwegianboyEE wrote:
Kira wrote:
-Norwegianboy is a passive player when he is town. He plays confused and ask a lot of questions around: He needs someone to lead him. However, when he is mafia, he plays confident, he knows in which direction to go. He is not scared to play aggressive (See PurgatorEE for instance). And this is exactly what he is showcasing here: aggressive play.
Filthy lies. What the heck do you know about my playstyle as a town player? It's scummy how you are now trying to turn your wagon around because you sense that Daneeko is someone people might be redirected into.
You play like a sheep when you're town, like a lost little lamb in the middle of a plain. Obvious defence that I was expecting from you though, you feel threatened by my attack because it puts you in very bad light.
I'm choosing Daneeko, but I could be choosing you. I just feel like town would be more inclined to vote Daneeko than voting you.

That is in direct contradiction to what Norboy has said, brb diving through old games. Well not right now. Maybe on my lunch break or something. But I'll return with links.

Different55 · 2019-10-20 19:12:33

Kira wrote:

Norboy made Peace look like scum after comparing his playstyle to the previous mafia games. I find this pretty rude honestly, because TLDR his argument was: "Peace is too stupid, he always plays the same and is not clever enough to switch playstyles"

? Is that not the same thing you just did with Norboy lol

Different55 · 2019-10-20 20:39:00

Maybe Kira and Daneeko? They seem to be injecting the most confusion. Then again the NoNK Norboy association is injecting plenty of confusion, too. *Still* no explanation for that. And NoNK has yet to address Norboy's scummy actions.

Different55 · 2019-10-20 20:40:12

Tbh I read Kira's recent posts as funposting/throwing before he goes down to cause as much confusion and townlynches as possible before he died but Nonk seems to think he's actually saying something in just the most cryptic way possible.

mrjawapa

Different55 · 2019-10-20 21:59:48

TaskManager wrote:

Kira basically started the fight between Diff and Norboy

Gonna need a citation on that. Norboy started it when he pulled his 180noscope on me just after NoNK posted his reads. Kira was nowhere to be seen at the time. V possible that Kira took advantage of that existing chaos but he didn't start it.

Different55 · 2019-10-20 22:10:30

...? I was the first to vote for Norboy. I voted for him because I didn't want to contribute to any existing wagon given D1, and Norboy had no votes on him at the time. Kira agreed later, although I don't know where in the timeline that lines up with Norboy flipping out on me.

Different55 · 2019-10-20 22:19:49

Huh. So he did.

I had no idea, his vote had no influence on me since I wasn't aware of it til just now lol

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#26 2019-10-20 14:23:34

Re: Mafia 33 [Friday Wins!]

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Re: Mafia 33 [Friday Wins!]

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Re: Mafia 33 [Friday Wins!]

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Re: Mafia 33 [Friday Wins!]

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Re: Mafia 33 [Friday Wins!]

!vote Different55

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Re: Mafia 33 [Friday Wins!]

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Re: Mafia 33 [Friday Wins!]

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Re: Mafia 33 [Friday Wins!]

Mafia 33 through the eyes of a Diff

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