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#26 2019-07-26 22:58:26

Bimps
Member
From: michigan
Joined: 2015-02-08
Posts: 4,941

Re: Imagine if Benjaminsen had EE ownership again

Xenonetix wrote:

As for EE at this point, it's very likely it won't be coming back online, and this is simply because it isn't viable to do so.

I think we all wish this weren't the case but it makes sense why you're doing it, thank you


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#27 2019-07-26 23:22:04, last edited by mrjawapa (2019-07-26 23:22:11)

mrjawapa
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From: Ohio, USA
Joined: 2015-02-15
Posts: 5,321
Website

Re: Imagine if Benjaminsen had EE ownership again

Thank you, Mega, and everyone else that's been a part of the ever-changing staff, for keeping the game going for this long.


Looks like everything will be coming to an end soon.

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#28 2019-07-27 00:53:13

NoNK
Member
Joined: 2019-07-13
Posts: 577

Re: Imagine if Benjaminsen had EE ownership again

No. I don't care about EE. I don't care about EEU. Do EE Offline. Somebody, please do EE offline.

I'm not stupid enough to put my hope in EEU. Just give me a place where I can indefinitely make Cold World clones while listening to youtube videos on a Saturday. I don't care who does it.

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#29 2019-07-27 01:14:09

Xenonetix
EE Owner
From: Working on EEU
Joined: 2015-03-07
Posts: 856
Website

Re: Imagine if Benjaminsen had EE ownership again

NoNK wrote:

No. I don't care about EE. I don't care about EEU. Do EE Offline. Somebody, please do EE offline.

We still plan on providing EE Offline, although it is still currently unknown when it will be ready. I hope Cercul1 heals up enough soon to finish work on it.

Quite simply, although our previous plans were not to shut down EE until EE Offline was available, it seems that option has been stripped from us, but it won't stop us releasing it eventually, provided Cercul1 is able to finish it.


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#30 2019-07-27 01:15:23

Crybaby
Formerly minimania
From: Wilted
Joined: 2015-02-22
Posts: 4,717

Re: Imagine if Benjaminsen had EE ownership again

I'm looking forward to seeing that sick EEU lobby design and loadscreen


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#31 2019-07-27 01:15:26

NoNK
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Joined: 2019-07-13
Posts: 577

Re: Imagine if Benjaminsen had EE ownership again

Eventually ™ works for me!

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#32 2019-07-27 06:14:20, last edited by 2B55B5G TNG (2019-07-27 06:34:48)

2B55B5G TNG
Member
From: Levitation Planet
Joined: 2016-08-27
Posts: 1,628

Re: Imagine if Benjaminsen had EE ownership again

peace wrote:
2B55B5G TNG wrote:

guys atleast with benjaminsen wer eegtting soemting better than EEU

have you seen EEU? no so you can say that yet come back in a year or 2 then say it if its true

You haven’t seen Benjaminsen own EE in 2019 too //forums.everybodyedits.com/img/smilies/tongue

The original owner of EE is definitely better than Xenonetix, but I’m not saying Xenonetix is bad too.

Nvm I completely skipped that long post xeno made when I posted this

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#33 2019-07-27 07:12:32

Kkay
Formerly Kaydog99
From: Canda eh
Joined: 2015-08-20
Posts: 410

Re: Imagine if Benjaminsen had EE ownership again

Xenonetix wrote:
XxAtillaxX wrote:

Chris Benjaminsen was going to own Everybody Edits again and develop it, and it would've been released somewhere between 6-8 months ago from now.
We made a deal, discussed the monetization and unique aspects going forward and, literally right before it was finalized, NVD decided to give the game to Emalton, and then NVD gave it to Chris Lamb after Emalton started doing immature **** in-game.
Nou gave the intellectual property rights to Chris Lamb thereafter.. It's extremely unlikely that Chris Lamb would give up the game to anyone else, since he cares more about his ego and making profit from Patreon than the success of the game.

It's interesting that you conveniently leave out the part of the story where Chris Benjaminsen claimed he was unable to find developers to work on Everybody Edits, and decided to back out of any deals in terms of ownership. I have tried to make contact with him on multiple occasions since becoming owner. I am relatively certain that he no longer has any interest in taking control of the game.

I would love to hear what the unique aspects were, considering you never mentioned any of those, but as far as I know, your deal was being discussed for an amount close to $15,000 to purchase the game (with plans to split this between development staff), and then $250,000 investment to making it successful again.

NVD, along with many other staff, put development of EE completely on hold during 2017, firmly in the belief that the game would be passed back to Chris Benjaminsen, and I was the only person to say we still had to maintain some levels of updates or we'd lose the community entirely. I did everything I could, as the developers no longer wanted to work on the game, so I did all I could to take responsibility of updating into my own hands, which, at the time, was purely to release new Campaigns. It was only after I had been preparing various campaigns, and planning updates for the campaigns, that the staff of the time renewed their interest in updating the game, whilst promises of Chris being in control again by September, October, November, and December of 2017, kept being pushed back.

Atilla insisted that he should be the only one to communicate with Chris Benjaminsen, claiming that anyone else communicating with him could jeopardize the deal. We all respected that instruction, and it was only when NVD finally realised the deal was unlikely to ever come through that he broke down and wanted to be rid of the game. Atilla can try to claim that it's somehow my fault that Benjaminsen is not currently the owner again, but history suggests that the only two individuals that could possibly be to blame for that could be Atilla and Chris himself.

I don't care about my ego, and never have done. I've attempted to help this game for the better over all 10 years of its existence, and not once have I asked for gratitude or even monetary gain. I'm not sure which world you're living in where a Patreon that pays currently $341 a month is enough to make "profit", but I certainly could not live on $341 a month, and it's only because I do freelance sheet music work in addition to working on Everybody Edits that I make enough money to live. I've had to move house multiple times just to afford to live and not become homeless, currently living in an 8 person shared residence, which I hate, and the rent is £100 a week, down from £510 a month at the last place I lived. I would much rather live alone again, in a place where I could work in peace, and where my housemates don't steal my food and drink, which has occurred. Even the $341 we are receiving, I'm still doing what I can to split between current staff, which NVD never did, and kept all the money for himself, never once paying any of the other staff.

I honestly don't know where the "ego-trip" notion of my personality even came from. As far as I can tell, it's something Atilla has been perpetuating ever since I became owner, and only because Atilla disagreed that I should be owner, but many people have suggested that if NVD had remained owner, EE would have been dead by February 2018, and if Emalton had become owner, it would have been dead by Summer 2018. At least I gave it more longevity than either of those options.

In short, I have never been egotistical about owning or developing this game, and I have certainly never made profit from it. If anything, I have made immense losses in my life trying to keep the game afloat, purely in the belief that we could make something great out of it in future, with the developments of Everybody Edits Universe.

The only owner I believe possibly could have continued doing a better job than I did was Nou, and Atilla is the reason a mutiny occurred to push Nou out of that position. I do not believe Benjaminsen has any interest in receiving the game now, or at any point this year, even before all the hacking. People also seem to forget that Chris Benjaminsen was owner of Player.IO, and is the entire reason behind many of the security issues so many people are so quick to blame me of. As owner of PIO, it's entirely his fault in the first place that PIO does, as Atilla has pointed out, set passwords to be lowercase before hashing them, and for some reason now I'm being blamed for that when it's completely out of my control?

We are moving away from Player.IO for a reason. I was given the game, and I made the best I could out of a bad situation. The only reason I kept EE alive was so we could develop a new game to live on long after Flash dies, and that's what we've been doing. That is what we will continue to do.

As for EE at this point, it's very likely it won't be coming back online, and this is simply because it isn't viable to do so. Anything that we could do can currently just be changed and reversed by the hackers, who currently still have access to the backend of the game. We have done everything in our power to stop them, and it's now down to PIO to fix it. There is nothing more we can do, whether anyone likes it or not.

If Chris Benjaminsen had ownership again, what would be different? Hackers would still exist, and hackers would still have full control over the backend. The only reason they wouldn't have full control for whatever reason is if the hackers chose to respect Chris Benjaminsen enough not to hack his game in the first place. There's nothing Chris would do to combat the hackers different to anything we have done so far, which means the only course of action would either be to have transferred the game entirely away from PIO, which would take many months anyway, or create a new game, which we are doing with EE Universe. I do not believe Chris would have let EE live as long as it has done, and the moment hackers would get control, he would just shut the game down. I would expect that he would have been far less vocal about it with the community, as he was certainly the type of individual to only ever focus on the positive, and anything negative, he regularly refused to address in public.

Like it or not Chris Benjaminsen is not a "player" of Everybody Edits. He made the game for the creative outlets of others to come out and develop. The moment the game became too large for him to handle on his own, he passed it on to Brian Meidell, and went off to do other projects in his life, which have indeed been successful. He is an excellent business-man, but I do not believe he is a good Community Specialist. He would try to avoid talking to large groups of people whenever he could, and the largest group that I'm aware of him speaking to simultaneously was EX Crew in 2011.

Brian Meidell's approach was that the game wasn't making enough money, and so should be abandoned. He pulled MrShoe and MrVoid from the project during the time MrShoe was on vacation for about a month. Eventually, as Brian decided he also wanted to get rid of this game that was cancerous to his company, he passed it off to NVD. Now Brian also has left Player.IO, moving to work with Chris Benjaminsen in America. Effectively, he abandoned EE, never ONCE spoke to the community about the game, and never announced anything about it at all. The reason it was believed MrShoe "went on vacation and never came back", and that MrShoe got all the credit for his abandonment was simply because Brian refused to speak out to the community at all. If anything, MrShoe was the best 'owner' the game had, and he was never owner.

Every single owner except two have abandoned EE when it got too hard for them to handle, including Chris Benjaminsen, Brian Meidell, and Niels Van Dijk. The only owners not to have abandoned the game were Nou, who was pushed out by Atilla, and me, whom Atilla has attempted to push out on many occasions.

So here I am, still here, still suffering through this nightmare of a situation, and doing the only thing I possibly can at this point, which is keep the game offline for security reasons, and do all I can to continue work on EE Universe. If we abandon EE Universe at this point, then it's game over for all of us. No more EE. No more EEU. The game will officially be completely dead.

If Nou had stayed owner, I believe EE Unity would be out by now, and the game would have been moved away from PIO. As far as I can tell, it is entirely Atilla's fault this is not the case, simply because Atilla made a decision that Nou wasn't doing his job well enough.

That was a legit good response, normally I don't appreciate how you handle PR but ill give you props because that's how you handle a situation, either way great job dude and keep this **** up

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#34 2019-07-27 09:42:57

peace
Member
From: admin land
Joined: 2015-08-10
Posts: 6,929

Re: Imagine if Benjaminsen had EE ownership again

i woudl liek to hear from antila why he disagrees wiht xeno being owner beecause xeno is a good owner yes we had 2 dat abreaches but it snot ALL xeno's fault blame PIO aswell for the password security for exmaple


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thanks hg for making this much better

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#35 2019-07-27 11:15:37

icepegasus
Member
Joined: 2015-08-21
Posts: 64

Re: Imagine if Benjaminsen had EE ownership again

Can we please get an explanation as to how the leaks contained uppercase characters even though the passwords on pIO are all converted to lowercase? It might not be playerIO's fault?


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#36 2019-07-27 16:47:24

Xenonetix
EE Owner
From: Working on EEU
Joined: 2015-03-07
Posts: 856
Website

Re: Imagine if Benjaminsen had EE ownership again

icepegasus wrote:

Can we please get an explanation as to how the leaks contained uppercase characters even though the passwords on pIO are all converted to lowercase? It might not be playerIO's fault?

As far as we can tell, the password leak itself is not directly PlayerIO's fault. If it were, hundreds of thousands of passwords would have been leaked, and thankfully, only 882 have been.

It's currently believed that, as the hackers have close to full control over the backend of EE, and have done for quite some time without our knowledge, at some point within the last couple of months, they managed to upload a version of EE with a keylogger incorporated within it, and then managed to remove that version maybe a day or two later.

Even though we have scoured the previous clients to try to find evidence of this, the hackers have made thousands of changes that are not showing up in our Change Logs, so it is believed that they somehow managed to swap out the client in secret as well. We have asked Player.IO to assist us in figuring out exactly how and when this might have happened, but for now, this is currently the prevailing theory over how they got 882 passwords. It is also approximately the number of people who log on regularly during a 24 hour period, and it has been confirmed that some of the passwords leaked are lowercase even though they were originally made with a combination of lowercase and uppercase (because players who knew of Player.IO's password security flaws have ended up simply typing them in lowercase). The fact Player.IO converts the passwords to lowercase before hashing them may not be the reason this hack occurred, but it certainly proves the most likely way the hackers could have received the passwords in the first place was through keylogging software of some variety.

We currently have no reason to believe this keylogging software has been downloaded to computers, and would have purely been incorporated within the EE client for a day or two. Although we cannot say for certain, we believe your computers are safe from EE's software, but we would still recommend doing regular anti-virus scans and setting a firewall if you haven't already done so.


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#37 2019-07-27 17:10:26

Slabdrill
Formerly 12345678908642
From: canada
Joined: 2015-08-15
Posts: 3,358
Website

Re: Imagine if Benjaminsen had EE ownership again

Is there really 882 people that log on in a 24-hour period? I'm online, but I don't type my password every time I'm on and I assume the same is true for most of the community.


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#38 2019-07-27 17:16:33

peace
Member
From: admin land
Joined: 2015-08-10
Posts: 6,929

Re: Imagine if Benjaminsen had EE ownership again

i tick th ebox kremebr me since im th eonly oen at hom eusing EE no reason to log me out


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thanks hg for making this much better

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#39 2019-07-27 17:58:02

Xenonetix
EE Owner
From: Working on EEU
Joined: 2015-03-07
Posts: 856
Website

Re: Imagine if Benjaminsen had EE ownership again

Slabdrill wrote:

Is there really 882 people that log on in a 24-hour period? I'm online, but I don't type my password every time I'm on and I assume the same is true for most of the community.

It's a fair point I hadn't really considered, but we really have no idea how long the compromised client may have been present for. It could have been over a period much longer than 1-2 days, but that was our previous estimate. We suspect they wouldn't have wanted to keep it present for long, because the longer they would have kept the client there, the more likely we would have been to find out.


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#40 2019-07-27 17:59:05

Charlie59876EE
Member
Joined: 2016-06-18
Posts: 133

Re: Imagine if Benjaminsen had EE ownership again

Xenonetix wrote:
icepegasus wrote:

Can we please get an explanation as to how the leaks contained uppercase characters even though the passwords on pIO are all converted to lowercase? It might not be playerIO's fault?

As far as we can tell, the password leak itself is not directly PlayerIO's fault. If it were, hundreds of thousands of passwords would have been leaked, and thankfully, only 882 have been.

It's currently believed that, as the hackers have close to full control over the backend of EE, and have done for quite some time without our knowledge, at some point within the last couple of months, they managed to upload a version of EE with a keylogger incorporated within it, and then managed to remove that version maybe a day or two later.

Even though we have scoured the previous clients to try to find evidence of this, the hackers have made thousands of changes that are not showing up in our Change Logs, so it is believed that they somehow managed to swap out the client in secret as well. We have asked Player.IO to assist us in figuring out exactly how and when this might have happened, but for now, this is currently the prevailing theory over how they got 882 passwords. It is also approximately the number of people who log on regularly during a 24 hour period, and it has been confirmed that some of the passwords leaked are lowercase even though they were originally made with a combination of lowercase and uppercase (because players who knew of Player.IO's password security flaws have ended up simply typing them in lowercase). The fact Player.IO converts the passwords to lowercase before hashing them may not be the reason this hack occurred, but it certainly proves the most likely way the hackers could have received the passwords in the first place was through keylogging software of some variety.

We currently have no reason to believe this keylogging software has been downloaded to computers, and would have purely been incorporated within the EE client for a day or two. Although we cannot say for certain, we believe your computers are safe from EE's software, but we would still recommend doing regular anti-virus scans and setting a firewall if you haven't already done so.

it can't be a key logger, or not just a key logger at least afaik, as i have remember me on, and i don't remember typing being logged out, and even if i was, i use a password manager, so i don't type passwords in, i copy and paste them. unless there's a different kind of key logger.


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#41 2019-07-27 18:22:52, last edited by Gosha (2019-07-27 18:23:56)

Gosha
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From: Russia
Joined: 2015-03-15
Posts: 5,916

Re: Imagine if Benjaminsen had EE ownership again

Slabdrill wrote:

Is there really 882 people that log on in a 24-hour period? I'm online, but I don't type my password every time I'm on and I assume the same is true for most of the community.

Ee (pio)  doesn't use tokens. Ee stores your password locally in plain text and every time you open up ee, playerio still gets your password like you just typed it

When people say "keylogger" they don't mean the malware actually records your keys, it just copies the passwords from your local storage

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#42 2019-07-27 18:38:35

LukeM
Dev Team
From: England
Joined: 2016-06-03
Posts: 2,911
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Re: Imagine if Benjaminsen had EE ownership again

Slabdrill wrote:

Is there really 882 people that log on in a 24-hour period? I'm online, but I don't type my password every time I'm on and I assume the same is true for most of the community.

Charlie59876EE wrote:

it can't be a key logger, or not just a key logger at least afaik, as i have remember me on, and i don't remember typing being logged out, and even if i was, i use a password manager, so i don't type passwords in, i copy and paste them. unless there's a different kind of key logger.

As Gosha has said, in this instance by 'key logger' we're really talking about anything that logs what people enter into the email and passwords fields, rather than just by typing it with physical keys.

There are several ways that they could have intercepted other methods of entering your password, either through code in the client itself that logs your details when you press the sign in button, or a malicious script on the page that could send off the cookie that keeps you logged in or retrieve the contents of your clipboard the moment you paste, so unfortunately, in this case it's fairly likely that it could have been grabbing your password however you entered it.

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#43 2019-07-28 06:17:05

Joeyjoey65
Member
Joined: 2017-11-05
Posts: 141

Re: Imagine if Benjaminsen had EE ownership again

Thanks for helping ee out so much while you could, it's honestly been such a pleasure!




Last edited by Xenonetix Yesterday 01:13:03


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#44 2019-07-29 01:50:54

Processor
Member
Joined: 2015-02-15
Posts: 2,078

Re: Imagine if Benjaminsen had EE ownership again

Xenonetix wrote:

It's currently believed that, as the hackers have close to full control over the backend of EE, and have done for quite some time without our knowledge, at some point within the last couple of months, they managed to upload a version of EE with a keylogger incorporated within it, and then managed to remove that version maybe a day or two later.

Xenonetix wrote:

Anything that we could do can currently just be changed and reversed by the hackers, who currently still have access to the backend of the game. We have done everything in our power to stop them, and it's now down to PIO to fix it. There is nothing more we can do, whether anyone likes it or not.

Okay Xenonetix, I'm stopping by from the Mafia 27 game to help you out here.

You are:
- compromised
- still compromised after changing passwords and moving to a different PlayerIO game
- no clue how it could happen

Have you considered that one of your internal staff might be the hacker?


I have never thought of programming for reputation and honor. What I have in my heart must come out. That is the reason why I code.

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#45 2019-07-29 02:41:03

mrjawapa
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From: Ohio, USA
Joined: 2015-02-15
Posts: 5,321
Website

Re: Imagine if Benjaminsen had EE ownership again

who even is on the staff now?


Looks like everything will be coming to an end soon.

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#46 2019-07-29 02:46:59

TaskManager
Formerly maxi123
From: i really should update this
Joined: 2015-03-01
Posts: 8,453

Re: Imagine if Benjaminsen had EE ownership again

mrjawapa wrote:

who even is on the staff now?

Not you


https://wiki.everybodyedits.com/images/c/c0/069_LOL


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previous signature by drstereos













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#47 2019-07-29 03:21:40

mrjawapa
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From: Ohio, USA
Joined: 2015-02-15
Posts: 5,321
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Re: Imagine if Benjaminsen had EE ownership again

TaskManager wrote:
mrjawapa wrote:

who even is on the staff now?

Not you


https://wiki.everybodyedits.com/images/c/c0/069_LOL

wow, good one

thanks for answering my question


Looks like everything will be coming to an end soon.

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#48 2019-07-29 04:28:32

Xenonetix
EE Owner
From: Working on EEU
Joined: 2015-03-07
Posts: 856
Website

Re: Imagine if Benjaminsen had EE ownership again

Processor wrote:

You are:
- no clue how it could happen

I am no clue?

Processor wrote:

Have you considered that one of your internal staff might be the hacker?

Yup, although motives would be a complete mystery. If either Josh or Luke have done this, they've then just made a huge amount more work for themselves by doing so, which would be counterproductive. In theory, Cercul1 could have something to do with it, but he also had the least access of any developer. In addition, all current staff are fully aware that, if caught, they'd legally be fined under the Non-Disclosure Agreements.

mrjawapa wrote:

who even is on the staff now?

ByteArray, LukeM, & Cercul1 are the Developers.
Zoey2070, LRussell, & Grandswordsman26 are the Moderators.
Kirby, Master1, & Tiralmo are the Campaign Curators.
Kentiya & Koya are the Graphics Designers.
RavaTroll is the primary EEU Composer.
Different55 is the Forum Administrator for EE & EEU.


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#49 2019-07-29 05:11:04

Thegame
Member
Joined: 2015-03-11
Posts: 53

Re: Imagine if Benjaminsen had EE ownership again

This makes me sad. //forums.everybodyedits.com/img/smilies/sad We had a great run fellas, appreciate the great memories. //forums.everybodyedits.com/img/smilies/smile Add me on Discord: Thegame#5952 I promise this wasn't me and I love you all. //forums.everybodyedits.com/img/smilies/cool


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#50 2019-07-29 10:10:29

peace
Member
From: admin land
Joined: 2015-08-10
Posts: 6,929

Re: Imagine if Benjaminsen had EE ownership again

Processor wrote:

Have you considered that one of your internal staff might be the hacker?

im 99% sure luke wouldtn do this hes too nice for that im fairly sure byte wouldnt do this aswell cercul idk but i doubt he allso would do this so i think none of em did it but it i had t make a scum list based on how well i know them then (1 is scumiest) its 1. cercul 2. byte 3. luke

Xenonetix wrote:
mrjawapa wrote:

who even is on the staff now?

ByteArray, LukeM, & Cercul1 are the Developers.
Zoey2070, LRussell, & Grandswordsman26 are the Moderators.
Kirby, Master1, & Tiralmo are the Campaign Curators.
Kentiya & Koya are the Graphics Designers.
RavaTroll is the primary EEU Composer.
Different55 is the Forum Administrator for EE & EEU.

uhm ur nto staff anymore xeno? //forums.everybodyedits.com/img/smilies/sad (lol ui forgot to mention urself)


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thanks hg for making this much better

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