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#76 2019-07-31 20:55:38

mutantdevle
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Re: Mafia 27: PurgatorEE [GAME OVER!]

At this point your statements are genuinely just coming across as stupidity...

I don't understand what you're trying to say. What's the point you're trying to make? That we shouldn't try and convince other people to believe what we say???



I've no idea where you're getting this idea of spoon-feeding from. Are you saying that in order for you to convince me of anything you'd need to spoon-feed me? Hence implying that you were purposely making your arguments **** last phase because I should "think for myself"?

Just because we can't say things for 100% certainty doesn't mean we shouldn't push our opinions. When you believe something and you're reasonably sure of it, you should try to convince others of that. Like I did to you and you did to me last phase. When you're trying to convince people of your opinion you need to convince them why you're right and why they should trust you (if they don't already). Although you were right, you gave me no reason to trust you for numerous reasons. Throughout our debate about Onjit, I was thinking for myself. If I wasn't then I would just say "oh I guess Onjit is town then" as soon as you stated that you disagreed with me. Your problem is that nothing you said ever made me reconsider the conclusion I had already come to. You denying responsibility for your failure to convince literally anybody last phase just proves to me that you're going to remain just as useless when it comes to presenting your opinion especially since you're now making excuses like convincing people somehow isn't a part of the game.


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#77 2019-08-01 12:21:40

mutantdevle
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Re: Mafia 27: PurgatorEE [GAME OVER!]

I'm done trying to help you here processor. You clearly have no desire to listen. I'm actually hoping at this point that you are mafia because if you're town then it's very clear you're never going to improve as a mafia player.


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#78 2019-08-01 12:22:47

mutantdevle
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Re: Mafia 27: PurgatorEE [GAME OVER!]

NoNK wrote:

4 votes norboy . Proc 2b task slab.

@'norboy', if I was to join this wagon, would you self-vote?


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#79 2019-08-01 12:31:10

mutantdevle
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Re: Mafia 27: PurgatorEE [GAME OVER!]

I was hoping you'd say no lol (forgetting that you said you would earlier). Because that would make me confident enough in your townieness to not have any doubts.

Not that it matters, I don't think anyone but you has any chance of going to heaven anyway, it was just a personal reassurance kinda thing //forums.everybodyedits.com/img/smilies/tongue


!vote NorweigianboyEE

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#80 2019-08-01 12:41:08

mutantdevle
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Re: Mafia 27: PurgatorEE [GAME OVER!]

Please be joking...


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#81 2019-08-01 21:43:59

mutantdevle
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Re: Mafia 27: PurgatorEE [GAME OVER!]

I trust Kira as he's had the towniest actions all game.

I trust Crybaby, he's consistently not wanted to go to heaven unlike the mafia that we've sent there. I don't think mafia!crybaby would want to stay down here to manipulate the situation.

Processer does not belong in hell. I've mostly concluded that he is town (and have done for a fair while) but still have my doubts. I think what solidified that read was his lack of desire to go to heaven.

I consider it impossible for both Crybaby and Processor to be mafia - this is a piece of information that isn't really relevant but there is a slim chance it might be later.

My biggest suspects at this point are peace and 2B55. I could very easily see them as aligned with each other.

I'm not sure what to think of Taskmanager and Slabdrill, they really needs to prove themselves.

Logically, I still think Zelda is town. But I have my doubts mainly due to paranoia.



We should not be basing our votes on judgement day. It's very unlikely to ever happen. For heaven phases we should be voting safe picks. The problem is that it's hard to know what safe is anymore.


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#82 2019-08-01 22:36:40

mutantdevle
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Re: Mafia 27: PurgatorEE [GAME OVER!]

ZeldaXD wrote:
2B55B5G TNG wrote:

You'll end up getting ANOTHER townie out but sure, I'm useless anyway //forums.everybodyedits.com/img/smilies/tongue

!vote 2B55B5G TNG

Can townies stop voting themselves to hell for a single second?

What makes you so sure he's town?


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#83 2019-08-01 23:21:27

mutantdevle
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Re: Mafia 27: PurgatorEE [GAME OVER!]

Personally, I think 2B55 is using the self vote as a defence mechanism as expressed through how prematurely he votes for himself.

Zelda, there are 2 mafia left in the game. If you had to pick 2 people right now to decide the fate of the game then who would you pick?


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#84 2019-08-02 10:22:01

mutantdevle
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Re: Mafia 27: PurgatorEE [GAME OVER!]

2B55B5G TNG wrote:

Fine, lynch me, but if I’m town, please lynch Mutantdevle.

What do you mean ‘if’? Surely you know what you’re going to flip, right?

Personally, I’d learn from your lynch whether peace is also likely to be mafia. It would also solve your alignment which would be great considering you’re one of the most elusive players in this game.


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#85 2019-08-02 11:51:35

mutantdevle
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Re: Mafia 27: PurgatorEE [GAME OVER!]

Processor wrote:

Two mafia threw Zoey under the bus. Impressive

You mean 3? If I'm mafia, that makes 3 mafia members that decided to throw a teammate under the bus. That's 3/4 of her teammates. 2 of which (myself and jawapa) playing an active role in starting the wagon.


ZeldaXD wrote:
mutantdevle wrote:

Personally, I think 2B55 is using the self vote as a defence mechanism as expressed through how prematurely he votes for himself.

Zelda, there are 2 mafia left in the game. If you had to pick 2 people right now to decide the fate of the game then who would you pick?

Honestly, I have no idea, my reads are complete trash. We really need to think this through.

Then think it through. Make a conclusion. This late in the game it's not acceptable for your opinion to be 'I don't know'. Your opinion doesn't have to be based on who is scummiest. Instead, you can eliminate options through who you think is townie or townish. Process of elimination is a valid way of finding scum.


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#86 2019-08-02 11:51:57

mutantdevle
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Re: Mafia 27: PurgatorEE [GAME OVER!]

To those of you who think I'm mafia, who do you think my partner is?


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#87 2019-08-02 12:31:03

mutantdevle
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Re: Mafia 27: PurgatorEE [GAME OVER!]

TaskManager wrote:

Consider Jawapa's heaven lynch: Mutant suggested it out of the blue
Consider Norboy's lynch: Mutant was on this wagon too, albeit it's not a major scum tell because we've all got fooled

We all got fooled by jawapa too. Surely that means that's not a major scum tell either?

Can I just remind y'all what happened with the jawapa vote. I merely suggested him. My expectation was that he should be dicussed as an option but immediately everyone was like 'yeah let's do this!' and voted. One of those players who had that reaction was Norweiganboy. We've established from Onjit's flip that the mafia are prepared to frame people so how can you be so sure they're not framing me too?

It genuinely annoys me that I'm being used a scapegoat for both the mafia and the town. Almost every time we get something wrong I get the blame. Y'all have been just as wrong about these things as I have, but I get the blame for it simply because my voice has the most power. The mafia, knowing this, just let me ramble on - of course they're not going to push back against my opinions if what I'm saying will help them win. Both jawapa and norweiganboy took on the strategy of mostly staying out of everything that's going on and looking townie in the process. And because most people here show the same behaviour - except without the added bonus of looking townie - that's what has allowed both the mafia players sitting in heaven to get where they are.

Taskmanager, do you agree that you've had very little impact in this game? Because I certainly think that's true. What gives? Usually, you're seen as one of the most valuable players yet in this game you've just been a semi-lurker. Why have you become less helpful in a game where you don't have to worry about being night killed?


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#88 2019-08-02 12:31:45

mutantdevle
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Re: Mafia 27: PurgatorEE [GAME OVER!]

Processor wrote:
!unvote

Thanks. I assume this is because you still want to give me a chance to talk rather than that you're having doubts?


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#89 2019-08-02 12:38:46

mutantdevle
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Re: Mafia 27: PurgatorEE [GAME OVER!]

TaskManager wrote:

They are/were scummy and can't defend themselves. They're all low hanging fruit

To say that they are incapable of defending themselves is just insulting to them to be honest.

I don't like how you're brandishing everyone I've been suspicious of as low hanging fruit. So many people in this game fit that description. I'd argue that right now even I fit the description of low hanging fruit so what's your excuse?


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#90 2019-08-02 12:57:51

mutantdevle
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Re: Mafia 27: PurgatorEE [GAME OVER!]

TaskManager wrote:

I also don't know how and why do you town read Kira

Kira has consistently shown a desire to solve the game. Although I don't agree with all of his conclusions, his logic makes sense on how he came to them and the very fact that he's been able to show his logic is proof that his reads and conclusions are genuine. I have similar reasoning to town read Zelda but their posts are not as strong as Kira's. I also think that Kira's initial lack of hope at the start of the game is quite a townie thing to think - if he was mafia, he would be glad of this advantage and possibly not feel the need to mention.

Posts like this stand out to me as townie. He could have just joined the wagon with a simple vote but instead not only did he make it clear that he agreed with me but more importantly he explained why he agreed with me. Just scroll through Kira's iso and you can see for yourself how consistently he does this kind of thing. He explains his logic and actively tries to solve the game when he has time to.

He's also suspected for quite a while now that 2B55 and norweiganboy are scum partners. Of course, at the time everyone ignored him because we all town read norweiganboy. But hey, Kira was right about him being scum. Maybe it's about time we listened to him.


Noteworthy posts by Kira that I think you all should be considering

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#91 2019-08-02 14:01:04

mutantdevle
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Re: Mafia 27: PurgatorEE [GAME OVER!]

2B55, a way you could try to prove your townieness to me specifically would be to give a detailed list of what alignment you think everyone is - justifying why - and mentioning any changes from previously.


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#92 2019-08-02 17:20:49

mutantdevle
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Re: Mafia 27: PurgatorEE [GAME OVER!]

2B55, the problem with your reads is that someone being right or wrong is not really a good indication that they are mafia or town. Anyone can be right and anyone can be wrong. What you need to think about instead is motivation behind what they are saying. Why were they right? Why were the wrong? What were they trying to achieve with X post. Can you see why they think X. Those kinds of things. It's sort of hard to explain exactly what you'd need to look for because there's obviously so much to the game of mafia. But automatically thinking people are town or mafia because they are getting everything right or wrong is a dangerous way of thinking. You forget, the mafia knows the answers. In effect, they choose to be right or wrong. When someone gets something right you have to think 'did they choose to get this right, or did they come to the right conclusion naturally?'. The same applies to getting things wrong. I think a better way of explaining my point is that instead of judging people on what they get right and wrong, judge them on what looks fake and what looks natural.

So even though I think In your post you came to a lot of wrong conclusions (or rather, maybe your conclusions are right but your logic behind them I at least consider to be wrong), your post does look very natural to me. I don't think you've really faked anything in that post and I can see why you'd come to the conclusions that you have using the logic that you've stated. Combine that with the fact that I do think it's unlikely that 3/4 mafia would be on Zoey's wagon I do town read you now.

!unvote

@peace, I'd like to see you make a similar sort of post to 2B55's. Slabdrill and Taskmanager you two also really need to step up because this game is steering closer and closer to a loss and at the moment both of you are very much in the PoE pool.


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#93 2019-08-02 19:15:11

mutantdevle
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Re: Mafia 27: PurgatorEE [GAME OVER!]

TaskManager wrote:

The thing is that in jawapa's case you were the one to bring him up as a candidate

So because I voice my opinions that makes me scum does it?

TaskManager wrote:

Also what would you have discussed there? Cause considering he was town read by pretty much everyone, I don't think anyone would have anything to discuss

Getting a consensus of who thought it would be a good idea before then actually going through with the vote would have been better like had been done with every other candidate for all previous phases. You could say it was an oversight on my part to not expect a tone of immediate votes given how towny he was, or that I then didn't step in to cool the votes down, but I don't think it's fair to entirely blame me for the mistake of sending jawapa to heaven and I especially don't agree with the idea that I somehow manipulated the town into sending a mafia member to heaven considering when you actually take a look at the situation I actually did very little. And if you're to think that as mafia I'd be self-aware of how just powerful my opinion could be, then surely I'd use that, knowing that the consequence is then losing that trust, to send a teammate that's less likely to get into heaven otherwise? If jawapa was to continue the way he was then he would have ended up in heaven eventually with or without my support.

TaskManager wrote:

so can you explain how is mafia potentially framing you rn

Think about it, if I were to, as town, state an opinion that was wrong and benefitted the mafia, why would the mafia then not back it up? They support the idea, and then, when it goes wrong, I take the **** for it. Which is exactly what happened. When I spoke up about jawapa, norweiganboy instantly voted and mentioned he'd been in support of the idea since the previous phase. Then, when Jawapa flips town, I get the blame for being wrong and nobody thinks any ill of norweiganboy over it. And then with my argument with Processor, norweiganboy was backing me every step of the way. Then, when I'm wrong about Onjit, norweiganboy then gets no **** for it and even gets into heaven - this despite the fact that he actively supported every mistake that I've been considered suspicious for. The mafia has been hiding behind my mistakes. You could say that norweiganboy was backing me up because we're on the same team, but do you really think either of us would be so blatantly obvious about it especially given how subtle norweiganboy was with jawapa?

TaskManager wrote:

Onjit couldn't defend himself because he acted scummy the entire game and you had a ton of arguments against him, against which he only had "i acted scummy on purpose"

Onjit had the perfect opportunity to prove himself as town. I stated many times that his argument that he was acting scummy on purpose countered literally every single one of my own points against him. What he then failed to do was prove that he had been trying to solve the game behind the scenes. He didn't fail because he wasn't capable, he failed because he wasn't willing to put the effort in.

2B55 is most certainly capable of defending himself - as he has just proven. He just lacks faith in himself sometimes. As for peace I do believe he is capable of giving a convincing argument. The only issue he has is that most people are not willing to decipher what he means.

TaskManager wrote:

I'm not "brandishing everyone", thats hella manipulative lol

And you cutting off my statement like this is even more manipulative. I said everyone I've been suspicious of, not everyone in general.

TaskManager wrote:

Explaining *why* does one agree with someone seems redundant to me. If you have the same opinion as someone else, what is to explain here?

This is exactly why it's hard to sort you. The more you justify your logic and the motivation, the more likely it is that you're town. Why? Because town's words are genuine and mafia's are effectively lies they have to invent. The more you question a lie the more chance you can see a hole in it. So when you freely offer explanations to your opinions, it shows you have nothing to hide (or that you're really good at lying).

TaskManager wrote:

Uhh you don't seem to have the same approach to Proc despite him being right about Onjit
Instead you tried to silence him by suggesting sending him to heaven

Proc currently isn't campaigning for anything other than me being scum (which I obviously know he's wrong on). Other than that, his only other significant opinion is that Zelda is scummy. But unlike Kira he hasn't really provided much of a reason to lynch Zelda. I'm perfectly willing to listen to Proc if he actually presents a case on Zelda.

Where did I try to silence Proc? I made it explicitly clear that I didn't want to send proc to heaven. Accusing me of trying to get proc into heaven is the equivalent of cutting someone off mid-sentence to twist what they're trying to say. The statement that I was making is that proc's 'playstyle' is better suited to a judgement day decision than it is trying to convince other living townies to follow him. And no point did I ever say that I wanted him in heaven.

TaskManager wrote:

Isn't he banned tho

oh. Well that certainly makes things more difficult.

Can whoever is teamed with peace ask him to respond to my post in your mafia chat and then post his response here on his behalf?


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#94 2019-08-02 22:28:44

mutantdevle
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Re: Mafia 27: PurgatorEE [GAME OVER!]

peace, Slabdrill, Zelda and TaskManager are the 4 people that I'm not certain of. I find it hard to believe that the final 2 mafia aren't in that group.


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#95 2019-08-03 11:45:36

mutantdevle
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Re: Mafia 27: PurgatorEE [GAME OVER!]

TaskManager wrote:

it's that your opinions turn out to be beneficial to mafia

Do you not consider it a possibility that I'm simply wrong about these things and that the mafia has been hiding behind me like norweiganboy did?

TaskManager wrote:

And losing the trust seemingly had paid off, considering there's 2 mafias in heaven already

My point was never that it wouldn't happen, my point was that losing the trust would be much more worth it if it was used to get a much less town-read teammate into heaven. I think given the way jawapa was playing it was inevitable that he was going to get into heaven at some point.

TaskManager wrote:

Onjit's chances to prove himself as town were slim because eventually he gave you a summary and you still dismissed it since apparently it's not what you wanted from him,

No, he made his own chances slim by the length of time he was taking to make that first post and then make posts thereafter. I made it clear what I wanted from him BEFORE he made that post and he even stated he knew that the post he made didn't fully meet that. He very clearly intended to make a second post but never did.

TaskManager wrote:

Literally in the next row I did say "people that you considered suspicious"
It's like you saw that flaw of not including the entire sentence in quotation marks and decided to play the "no u" card. Even though the entire sentence with "I've been suspicious of" is in the quote tags

I misinterpreted what you were saying, my apologies.

TaskManager wrote:

A mafia player could easily grab the statement that they agree with, rephrase it, and post it as their own

And why is this a reason for you to not explain your point of view?

But yeah, mafia can do that, that's why it's not as easy as going "that person is genuine and that person isn't" to solve a game. But here's the thing, the more someone does that the more it becomes obvious. That's why sheeping is considered scummy. But Kira did not simply rephrase what I said, he had his own things to add. Furthermore, throughout the game he has had several unique points of view - the main one of which I pointed out in my post.

TaskManager wrote:

Presents a case, yeah, yet in Kira's case it was simply "maybe about time we listened to him"

Did you even read my whole post? I literally highlighted all of Kira's main points that he made about norweiganboy and 2B55. That was worth listening to. Since then, I've disagreed with his conclusion again. But 2B55 was definitely worth investigating especially after half of the statement Kira was making was proven right.

TaskManager wrote:

Well, you wouldn't have to explicitly say you want him in heaven, would you?
Writing a paragraph about his playstyle and saying "y'all should definitely strongly consider him for heaven" is a solid enough implication
I also recall you saying at one point how we shouldn't bother with judg day much because it's unlikely to happen, so why suddenly mention it

The main reason I said it, like most of things I say, is to gauge what people think of it (additionally, recording you general thoughts in the game even if they don't amount to anything is a good way of allowing others to read you easier). In this instance, I was looking for 2 reactions in particular based on the fact that no one was really suggesting him. 1: if anyone would then support sending proc to heaven based on what I said. 2: if anyone felt the need to say that although they town read proc, they disagree with my conclusion. Responding with option 1 I would consider scummy whilst option 2 is townie - though this is flexible depending on the justification they'd give behind why. Unfortunately, no one responded with either of these things. I personally blame the lack of response on the fact that over the course of several games we've allowed a culture of not justifying yourself - something you seem to be totally fine with. But just because it didn't give me any new information to work with doesn't mean it wasn't worth trying.

Also, my comments on judgement day being mostly irrelevent were made after this post. Previously to that, my stance was 'we shouldn't hold judgement day as highly as we are' as it seemed like every decision being made was being made with judgement day in mind at the time.


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#96 2019-08-03 11:46:16

mutantdevle
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Re: Mafia 27: PurgatorEE [GAME OVER!]

@Processor, do you intend to go to heaven after my flip?


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#97 2019-08-03 15:00:47

mutantdevle
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Re: Mafia 27: PurgatorEE [GAME OVER!]

I don't want you going to heaven. I currently town read you but not nearly enough to ever approve of you going to heaven. If y'all are only going to remember one thing I've said after my death it's that you should not send processor to heaven. Don't send him to hell either. Just listen to his opinions on others.

I hope after my death that you realise being wrong about things isn't a sign someone is mafia. I also hope that the town doesn't turn on you like they turned on me.


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#98 2019-08-04 00:57:22

mutantdevle
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Re: Mafia 27: PurgatorEE [GAME OVER!]

Processor wrote:

Mutant, vote on somebody to be lynched
I'll follow you

Are you serious? I don't see why you'd suddenly trust me to lead you.

Processor wrote:

What do you think of the posts that follow (e.g. Zelda and Crybaby unvoting), @mutantdevle?

Well, I did pick up on Zelda at the time:

ZeldaXD wrote:
mutantdevle wrote:
ZeldaXD wrote:

!vote jawapa

Please talk me through why you voted, unvoted, then voted jawapa again?

I have read jawapa as town, I'm against sending crybaby to heaven this early, unvoted because I didn't read the "I cannot count." post and thought jawapa was L-1 based on proc's post, so I unvoted so it could be talked about, voted again because of this post

I bought this explanation at the time. Crybaby also seemed like the only unvoted because you cautioned against L-1. What I find interesting though is that on the very next page they both vote for jawapa and then both unvote again. This doesn't make me think any of them are more likely to be scum than I currently think they are but it does make me think that if either of them were to flip scum then that would make the other look very scummy also. Do you have a different interpretation of the events?

Processor wrote:

Or this one? //forums.everybodyedits.com/img/smilies/big_smile

mutantdevle wrote:

I'm honestly fine with both Norweiganboy OR jawapa being sent to heaven.

//forums.everybodyedits.com/img/smilies/sad


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#99 2019-08-04 13:52:10

mutantdevle
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Re: Mafia 27: PurgatorEE [GAME OVER!]

Processor wrote:

Mutant, vote on somebody to be lynched
I'll follow you

TaskManager was my immediate answer to this. It would have been peace but he obviously wasn't here to answer my questions and since he's being replaced by someone who is fairly good at mafia there's a chance the slot could be redeemed. But TaskManager was the answer I thought of immediately but I didn't want to say until you answered my post. However, time is not on our side right now so I decided not to wait. However, I did change my mind to Zelda later on. I thought that twisting this situation around so that it's actually me following your opinion would make this odd situation that you're giving me much more interesting. It would also be quite inciteful to see if anyone would follow you in following me in following you given that not many people are actually suspicious of Zelda. But now, since Kira is voting TaskManager, that's where I'm going to go too. So if you were being truthful about following me then vote TaskManager.

!vote TaskManager

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#100 2019-08-05 21:13:11

mutantdevle
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Re: Mafia 27: PurgatorEE [GAME OVER!]

Reading the process of the hell vote was certainly suspenseful.


My personal preference for today's vote is Kira. I'm not opposed to either myself or Processor going though.


I really don't like 2B55's self vote.


Processor, can I just ask, why are you following me on everything?


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