Mafia 24 [Crybaby wins]

2b55b5g · 2019-05-12 11:21:49

Oh, I thought classic cop can get the role card too.

peace · 2019-05-12 11:47:59

mutantdevle wrote:

It's not dumb. The cop claiming and having a doctor protect them the entire time is an effective strategy. This is known as 'follow the cop': https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti … ow_the_Cop
"The Cop claims immediately, and the Town votes No Lynch while the Doctor stays hidden. The Cop will get a result overnight, the hidden Doctor will protect the Cop, and the Mafia is powerless to stop it without first finding and killing the Doctor at Night. The Town will continue to No Lynch unless the Cop comes forward with a guilty result, which will then be lynched. However, by the time the Doctor is killed by the Mafia the Town should have enough reads from the Cop to finish the rest of the game via process of elimination."
I'm not expecting us to do that fully, but the premise of the doctor protecting exclusively the cop (or seer since they are stronger than the cop) is far from stupid.

yeah btu tthe article alos describle smafia can fake this so if ur mafia and fake hits you would be prtected the entire game

Norwee

Zumza · 2019-05-12 12:02:25

Mutant's need an alibi to justify how he remains alive. We all know, he is mostly always the top target.
It could be a plot.
But do we actually have anything to point that he could scum, in the first place? How is lynching a cop a good option?
If I were to chose between the two, I'd vote for Norwegian.

mutantdevle, Kirby, Slabdrill

Zumza · 2019-05-12 12:11:43

So much silence, from the others. Are the lurkers up just to hammer?

2b55b5g · 2019-05-12 12:21:53

No, I’m just playing EE

mutantdevle · 2019-05-12 12:21:53

I'm going to start putting who my posts are aimed towards at the top of my posts so that anyone who wants to skip over some of my walls of text can.

People who doubt my claim / suspect me as mafia

peace wrote:

yeah btu tthe article alos describle smafia can fake this so if ur mafia and fake hits you would be prtected the entire game

The article only mentions mafia counter claiming the cop to prevent the strategy (and losing a mafia member in the process), but yes, it is possible I could be mafia trying to do this. The mafia could do anything a town person does and a town person could do anything mafia does. The question is, which am I? The way you figure that out is by looking at motivation.

Think: what motivation would I have in fake claiming a cop who wants to be protected by the doctor?

"You'll be protected by the doctor"

Okay, why, as mafia would I want that?

"You can't be killed by the SK"

That's very little gain, but it's still motivation. It would be greater gain if the vig was still alive.

"It ensures that no townie is being protected by the doctor"

Again, since the chances of a kill being stopped by the doctor are actually fairly low, that's not much gain. But there is definitely something for mafia to gain from fake claiming cop.

But now let's look at the consequences. What would happen if a mafia member fake claimed cop:

"The cop would counterclaim"

There is a chance there is no cop. In which case, the mafia would get away with it. But that's a huge gamble. So what if there is a cop?

"The real cop would say who they've investigated and 1 of the cop claims would be lynched"

If the mafia member gets lynched then the mafia will gain nothing and they'll crucially lose one of their members in the process. Furthermore, the cop will be confirmed as town and no doubt be protected by the doctor. Aka, the mafia will achieve the opposite of what they were trying to do. Furthermore, if the cop has an innocent result that innocent is also confirmed town. And even worse, if the cop had a guilty result then the mafia will lose 2 members which basically just **** themselves over.

"But what if the real cop is lynched instead"

When the cop is lynched, the mafia member fake claiming cop gets exposed as mafia. As a result, they die anyway. So the mafia still loses a member. Furthermore, the real cop's result is also then believed. So that's either someone being confirmed as town or a 2nd mafia member exposed. Either way, it's bad for the mafia. They don't get doctor protection and they don't prevent the doctor from protecting townies. All they achieve is killing the cop but at the cost of either (1 mafia member + confirming someone as town) or (2 mafia members). Is there really anyone here that thinks that sounds worth it?

So what can we conclude? We can conclude that, whilst there is certainly motivation behind a mafia member claiming cop, there is a high chance that they are worse off after it. The only time it would ever pay off is if they get lucky and there is no cop in the game.

So to anyone who thinks I'm lying about my role, do you seriously think that, as a mafia member, I'd willing to risk **** up the game for my team just for the sake of trying to get immunity from the SK and reducing the chances the doctor protects a townie?

Norwee · 2019-05-12 12:38:44

Ok, Mutant. Do you think we should let other people say what’s on their mind now? Let’s just stay quiet for a while so people can catch up on what’s going on.

peace · 2019-05-12 12:47:36

!votecount
!timeleft

mutantdevle · 2019-05-12 12:50:10

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

Ok, Mutant. Do you think we should let other people say what’s on their mind now? Let’s just stay quiet for a while so people can catch up on what’s going on.

I'm all for giving everyone else a chance to talk and having their input on this situation but you've barely answered anything I've asked of you. I know you've been reading my questions because you've wooted other people's posts. Why are you avoiding my questions?

Norwee · 2019-05-12 12:55:23

Because they are so damn long. Sometimes the correct answer is the simplest.
If you could simplify the questions to me which you feel are the most relevant and important i promise i will answer them ok?

mutantdevle · 2019-05-12 13:54:47

Sure:

1: What is it that Anatoly said that made you trust that his rolecard is not mafia?

2: What kind of behaviour are made you think that 2B55 is townie?

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

MrJawapa: Appears to be bored of this whole mafia thing. Most likely sad he got a regular townie role and doesn’t even care anymore.

3: What did jawapa say that gave you the impression that jawapa was bored and didn't care?

You said the following things about each of these players:

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

ILikeTofuuJoe: I’m not sure about this guy yet. All i know is that he didn’t do much
Luka504: Has brought up some pretty good points and is active. He understands that we need to start lynching suspicious people fast, which is not what i believe a mafia would say.
Onjit: he appears to be on the town’s side. He puts some effort into his posts and makes some good points.[...] i think he is trustworthy.

4: Given you're 'not sure' about Joe, but have called the other 2 town, why are they all the same suspicion level?

5: Who were the 'suspicious people' that you think Luka was trying to lynch?

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

Peace:[...] Either he genuinely is a townie, or he is trying to divert attention from himself and the fact that he is scum.

6: Which do you think it is?

7: What's your opinion on Slabdrill after knowing he isn't very active in every game?

8: Why did you only feel the need to criticise Slabdrill for not being very active when plenty of other players were also not very active at the time?

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

Different55: Wooting a lot of posts from Mutantdevle, the fact that he supports Mutantdevle’s laughable efforts is more than enough to make him a prime suspect for potential guilty mafia members.

9: Why did you lie about this? He never wooted any of my posts and before this post he had never expressed any support of me other than that he also questioned why people were suspecting peace.

10: Is there anything other than this that you think makes diff look scummy?

11: What about my efforts prior to this post did you find laughable?

12: Why didn't you criticise Diff for not being very active when you did for Slabdrill?

13: Why do you think that disagreeing on who had done townie things so far in the game automatically makes me scum?

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

Mutantdevle: [...] Trying to make us lynch innocent’s in the most obvious way possible. Posting random “lel funni” **** to pretend he is just a townie. Not to mention his random “Ha gotcha!!” attempts to lynch innocents over spelling mistakes or minor revelations. Yeah right. Highly suspicious.

14: When did I try to make people lynch innocents? In what way was it obvious?

15: Why do you think I should be criticised for making **** when you and others have done the same?

16: What were my "ha gotcha" attempts? Where do I try to lynch innocents over a spelling mistake/minor revelations? I don't believe that either of these things happened.

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

Random person wrote:
But why would you lynch Slabdrill over Mutantdevle if that is your prime suspect?
Answer: It's a strategic play. I believe Mutantdevle's attempt to be the most vocal member in his mafia group is because he doesn't have a power role. My current theory is that Diff and Slabdrill has power roles and are attempting to "lay low" while Mutantdevle does all of the talking. If the Goon (Mutantdevle) get's lynched it's a tolerable loss for the mafia because he doesn't have a power role, but if one of the mafia members with a power role get's lynched it would be catastrophic.

17: Do you really think that this theory is plausible in any way whatsoever? Do you think that I would be less active if I was a mafia power role?

18: Why did you not bring up the criticism of me that the people on my list were some of the more active people in the game?

19: Given that I had 18 points of criticism about your reads list, can you understand why I believe that it is made up/fake?

20: Why do you think claiming cop makes me mafia? Why do you think that I'd choose to claim at the time that I did?

21: Can you be sure that you genuinely think claiming cop like I did is scummy? Did you start with the assumption that I was a cop and then conclude that I was mafia or did you already think I was mafia and hence think of a reason why mafia would claim cop?

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

using intimidation technique to have things go his way

22: Why do you find me intimidating? What intimidation techniques am I using?

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

Are you trying to manipulate the conversation so you can regain the initiative?

23: What is 'the initiative'? When did I have it, when did I lose it, and how did I try to regain it?

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

We realize we messed up so we want the cop to reveal himself so we can kill him later?

24: Where did I mess up so badly that I needed to fake claim cop? Where did I mess up at all?

25: Why do you think that if I wanted to expose a PR that I'd choose to expose the cop instead of the seer or doctor? Why do you think I'd choose to sacrifice myself to expose a PR?

That is a lot of questions lol. This could be your chance to surprise me.

Different55 · 2019-05-12 14:10:44

Hey guys it's me again. I don't have any particular specific reason I can point to (and I'd like to reiterate that I am NOT a cop, this is NOT a stupid way of revealing a night investigation, do NOT take this with anything less than a truckload of salt because everything contained inside should be taken at face value) but I have a feeling that Luka *might* maybe be SK just based on what he's said about the SK in their posts. I'm like half asleep and reading on a phone rn but I gotta feeling about it.

mutantdevle, mrjawapa

peace · 2019-05-12 14:26:32

im now questioning why iliketoforju thought diff was cop

mrjawapa · 2019-05-12 15:55:20

mutantdevle wrote:

This comment was designed to see how jawapa would respond to having his reason for voting Kirby being called ****.

I missed this. It was a **** post.

mutantdevle wrote:

Wow Jawapa, you must be scum! It's unlike you to release information like that when you're not really under any pressure...

That's false. Stop patronizing me. It hurts my feelings.

Kirby, mutantdevle

mrjawapa · 2019-05-12 16:01:37

Can i get a vote tally

Norwee · 2019-05-12 16:15:01

Answer to Mutantdevle:

▼Hidden text

1: What is it that Anatoly said that made you trust that his rolecard is not mafia?

A: It’s generally just the feeling i got from his behaviour. He seemed sincere in his desire to help the town, and he actually made some observations which seriously impressed me. I cannot say exactly which observations, but you can go through his posts and try guessing if you wish. I’m not excusing his meltdown, but in between his derpy episodes he does have his flashes of brilliance. The main problem with this guy is that he doesn’t understand certain levels of irony, such that he thought me and Taskmanager’s jokes were a “fight”. But overall i felt a high level of trust towards him and consequently refrained from voting to lynch him. (Of course, you can’t really trust anyone in this game. But one should definitely put pressure on certain people to weed out the mafia.)

2: What kind of behaviour are made you think that 2B55 is townie?

A: I don’t really think anyone is a townie to be perfectly honest, i just have bigger suspicions over certain people than others. I think this is one point you failed to understand with my list. I never explicitly claim that any single person is NOT the mafia. I simply suspect some people over others, and this list is of course very flexible. As events unfold i grow slightly less suspicious of some and more suspicious over others. You could blame me for being a newbie, but the reason i didn’t suspect 2B55 is simply because that’s the impression i’ve gotten from his behaviour so far. It’s that simple. My list wasn’t intended to be a bible of truth that i expected to be “picked apart” like you say, it’s just a simple little guide to show everyone where my beliefs were at in THAT point of time. I suppose that is my mistake again for being new at this game. Obviously people in mafia games will take your posts a whole lot more serious than i initially expected. Meaning i will admit outright that some of my entries in the list where rushed, incomplete or perhaps included solely to help me weed out the mafia. Not all obviously, but some of it shouldn’t be taken at face value. The “ILikeTofuuJoe” entry is basically just **** i wrote because i have no idea about him yet. Also the percentages aren’t really that well thought out either, as you point out with the “Luka504 and ILikeTofuuJoe are in the same percentage!” point.

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

MrJawapa: Appears to be bored of this whole mafia thing. Most likely sad he got a regular townie role and doesn’t even care anymore.

3: What did jawapa say that gave you the impression that jawapa was bored and didn't care?

A: As i initially looked at Jawapa’s contributions “post-night 1”. I saw him attempt to lynch Kirby for no reason while saying he was “sick of Kirby’s attitude”. I believe this is what made me think he didn’t care much about the game, treating it like a joke etc… but he did have like 2 more posts that were actually slightly useful. So i might have reached an hasty conclusion, he isn’t bored of the game. Just not as... should i say enthusiastic? This is the impression i get. But this behaviour might just be his natural state of mind.

You said the following things about each of these players:

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

ILikeTofuuJoe: I’m not sure about this guy yet. All i know is that he didn’t do much
Luka504: Has brought up some pretty good points and is active. He understands that we need to start lynching suspicious people fast, which is not what i believe a mafia would say.
Onjit: he appears to be on the town’s side. He puts some effort into his posts and makes some good points.[...] i think he is trustworthy.

4: Given you're 'not sure' about Joe, but have called the other 2 town, why are they all the same suspicion level?

A: You’re right. I should have put ILikeTofuuJoe’s suspicion level higher now that i think back on it. This goes back to my earlier answer, i simply didn’t put enough effort into my post than i would have been comfortable with right now.

5: Who were the 'suspicious people' that you think Luka was trying to lynch?

A: Peace. His protection claim seemed really fishy, i’m not really sure about Peace in general. He makes some good points, but at the same time it’s 50/50. Some people suspected that in night 1 the mafia failed to kill Peace, while the SK killed Taskmanager, but i think what really happened that night is that the mafia killed Taskmanager, then the serial killer refrained from doing anything to make us question his existence. Peace’s claim then seems a little suspicious. Perhaps the mafia saw this situation and decided to exploit it?
I didn’t feel comfortable with Luka’s decision to lynch Anatoly on day 1, but i could at least see where his decision was coming from.

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

Peace:[...] Either he genuinely is a townie, or he is trying to divert attention from himself and the fact that he is scum.

6: Which do you think it is?

A: I don’t know. That’s why i mentioned 2 alternatives and asked myself that very same question in the text you have quoted.

7: What's your opinion on Slabdrill after knowing he isn't very active in every game?

A: I suppose i’m just a little bit disappointed that apparently we need to “analyze” how he lurks to figure out if he is the mafia. Like wtf.

8: Why did you only feel the need to criticise Slabdrill for not being very active when plenty of other players were also not very active at the time?

A: Because i believed Slabdrill was intentionally lurking. If that makes sense to you. So i thought i should call him out to see how he would react. But apparently he always lurks so idk anymore.

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

Different55: Wooting a lot of posts from Mutantdevle, the fact that he supports Mutantdevle’s laughable efforts is more than enough to make him a prime suspect for potential guilty mafia members.

9: Why did you lie about this? He never wooted any of my posts and before this post he had never expressed any support of me other than that he also questioned why people were suspecting peace.

A: You both seemed to agree with each other on lynching Luka504 because he suspected Peace, which i found suspicious. So i believe in my overzealous effort to explain this connection i said he “wooted your post”. But i actually meant it the other way around, you wooted his post. Look back on answer 3 for more details.

10: Is there anything other than this that you think makes diff look scummy?

A: Already explained on answer 9.

11: What about my efforts prior to this post did you find laughable?

A: Your overly confrontational attitude seems very scummy to me. I’m going to be completely honest, most of the game i’ve felt like you’ve only attempted to pick apart people’s post to the miniscule detail because you are attempting to hide the fact that you are mafia and look good in the eyes of the town. The use of those pictures and videos you’ve been posting are absolutely ridiculous and proves even more your overly aggressive playstyle whenever confronted with criticism. If you really aren’t scum, then why are you so verbally violent? You could have replied to me by logically dismantling the argument, yet it’s like you lose your cool sometimes and turn into this caricature of yourself.

12: Why didn't you criticise Diff for not being very active when you did for Slabdrill?

A: I think i already answered this in answer 9.

13: Why do you think that disagreeing on who had done townie things so far in the game automatically makes me scum?

A: I don’t understand your question. Context?

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

Mutantdevle: [...] Trying to make us lynch innocent’s in the most obvious way possible. Posting random “lel funni” **** to pretend he is just a townie. Not to mention his random “Ha gotcha!!” attempts to lynch innocents over spelling mistakes or minor revelations. Yeah right. Highly suspicious.

14: When did I try to make people lynch innocents? In what way was it obvious?

A: I’ve already said why i find you suspicious in answer 11. Also at that time when i wrote this, your lynch list had many people i did not particularly suspect. But honestly, your cop claim throws all that crap i wrote earlier under the water. I do not understand why you would reveal that you supposedly are the “cop” on day 2 when you haven’t even found a single mafia or let alone the serial killer. It just seems like such an uncharacteristic move for you to choose this strategy if you really were a cop. Let alone blow up like that when i confronted you about it.

15: Why do you think I should be criticised for making **** when you and others have done the same?

A: Read answer 14.

16: What were my "ha gotcha" attempts? Where do I try to lynch innocents over a spelling mistake/minor revelations? I don't believe that either of these things happened.

A: Read answer 11.

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

Random person wrote:
But why would you lynch Slabdrill over Mutantdevle if that is your prime suspect?
Answer: It's a strategic play. I believe Mutantdevle's attempt to be the most vocal member in his mafia group is because he doesn't have a power role. My current theory is that Diff and Slabdrill has power roles and are attempting to "lay low" while Mutantdevle does all of the talking. If the Goon (Mutantdevle) get's lynched it's a tolerable loss for the mafia because he doesn't have a power role, but if one of the mafia members with a power role get's lynched it would be catastrophic.

17: Do you really think that this theory is plausible in any way whatsoever? Do you think that I would be less active if I was a mafia power role?

A: Why not? It’s up to the group of mafia to decide what strategy they’ll be doing for the game. Is it really that implausible?

18: Why did you not bring up the criticism of me that the people on my list were some of the more active people in the game?

A: Uh… Because someone else did? Why would i repeat what has already been said by someone else?

19: Given that I had 18 points of criticism about your reads list, can you understand why I believe that it is made up/fake?

A: Sure.

20: Why do you think claiming cop makes me mafia? Why do you think that I'd choose to claim at the time that I did?

A: Already answered in answer 14.

21: Can you be sure that you genuinely think claiming cop like I did is scummy? Did you start with the assumption that I was a cop and then conclude that I was mafia or did you already think I was mafia and hence think of a reason why mafia would claim cop?

A: It doesn’t really matter. What’s important is to stop the mafia, and the way i see it. This “cop reveal” could be an attempt by the mafia to put their mafia cop on a pedestal. The way you demand absolute trust from the town without actually having any information other than Kirby being townie is ludicrous. I’m starting to wonder if you’re just a bad townie cop which haven’t really thought this through. You know the serial killer is going to target you now right? Why would you be so stupid? You’re obviously going to die or kill the doctor in the next night. And you haven’t even found the serial killer yet.

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

using intimidation technique to have things go his way

22: Why do you find me intimidating? What intimidation techniques am I using?

A: Answer 11.

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

Are you trying to manipulate the conversation so you can regain the initiative?

23: What is 'the initiative'? When did I have it, when did I lose it, and how did I try to regain it?

A: You are obviously a wordsmith. Writing lengthy paragraphs of text that never seem to end. I had to spend like an hour just to write this damn reply. Let me explain to you what i mean. Having the “initiative” is quite simply, staying at the top of the game, having public opinion on your side, making your opponent’s arguments seem flawed and weak. Etc… Something you lost when you posted that silly picture and “It’s time for you to die” or whatever it said. So i’m referring to what i perceive as you trying to make us forget about the agressive incident and returning to your usual argumentative self.

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

We realize we messed up so we want the cop to reveal himself so we can kill him later?

24: Where did I mess up so badly that I needed to fake claim cop? Where did I mess up at all?

A: You have misunderstood my statement. I’m trying to put myself into the mindset of the mafia here. Kirby said “If Mutantdevle is fake claiming cop, then the real cop should just speak up!” Assuming Kirby and you are the mafia, this could be an attempt by you two to make the real cop speak up so the mafia can nightkill him. I’m assuming this desperate plan would form from a real fear that you, Mutantdevle would be lynched by the end of the day, so they’d try to make some good from it.

25: Why do you think that if I wanted to expose a PR that I'd choose to expose the cop instead of the seer or doctor? Why do you think I'd choose to sacrifice myself to expose a PR?

A: If you are the mafia cop, it would make more sense to fake claim being a regular cop rather than the seer. Because the seer is more powerful than your own mafia role equivalent. I believe you chose this course of action because you wanted to prove you were a “cop” to the town, of course this would be more trustworthy than claiming to be a seer and failing to understand what the power role is of people that “ask” to be investigated. I don’t think you planned on sacrificing yourself at all, i think you planned for everyone to believe your story without anyone questioning it whatsoever.

Please don't give me another huge reply with 50 quote lines.

mrjawapa · 2019-05-12 16:22:17

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

3: What did jawapa say that gave you the impression that jawapa was bored and didn't care?
A: As i initially looked at Jawapa’s contributions “post-night 1”. I saw him attempt to lynch Kirby for no reason while saying he was “sick of Kirby’s attitude”. I believe this is what made me think he didn’t care much about the game, treating it like a joke etc… but he did have like 2 more posts that were actually slightly useful. So i might have reached an hasty conclusion, he isn’t bored of the game. Just not as... should i say enthusiastic? This is the impression i get. But this behaviour might just be his natural state of mind.

I'm not bored of the game. I've just been super busy.

When I have had time to read everything, there's been walls of text, and I am too lazy to read all of that ****.

peace · 2019-05-12 18:14:51

ugh getting tired of walls of text by muttandevle sorry mutant but:
!Unvote
!lynch mutantdevle

Kirby · 2019-05-12 18:30:14

...WHAT

peace · 2019-05-12 18:31:35

alos have to add that the doc is forced now to protect mutant IF hes the real cop and if the doc knows who is the see rhe coudlnt protect him becuase wwe woudl lsoe cop

Kirby · 2019-05-12 18:48:13

peace let me get this straight

your reasons for lynching mutant are

1) he makes long posts
2) if he is cop, doctor would have to protect him, so might as well lynch him now to save the doctor the effort
3) if the doctor magically knew who the seer is, he would have to choose between the cop and the seer, so its better to just intentionally lynch a town now so the doctor doesnt have to hypothetically make that choice in the future

????

mutantdevle, mrjawapa, Slabdrill

2b55b5g · 2019-05-12 19:21:04

Peace what?

Why would you lynch Mutantdevle

mutantdevle · 2019-05-12 19:24:47

Mostly NorwegianboyEE but there are some smaller details that I think others could benefit from too:

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

Please don't give me another huge reply with 50 quote lines.

Too bad.

Before I address the points you've made, I would like to say that my opinion of you has drastically improved. Whilst I still have many criticisms of you, the very fact that instead of justifying your reads list you have admitted mistake makes me think you are town.

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

Peace’s claim then seems a little suspicious. Perhaps the mafia saw this situation and decided to exploit it?

I don't think so. peace definitely has the power to surprise us but I don't think he would have made a risky decision like that. If it was part of a team decision, I'm 90% sure a different mafia member would carry it out.

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

10: Is there anything other than this that you think makes diff look scummy?

So just to clarify, the only criticisms that you have of diff is that I like a lot of what he posts? Do you think that as mafia I'd so obviously associate myself with a scum buddy? How do you feel about the fact that, given the choice between tofuuJoe and GreenyMix (the slot that diff replaced), I chose GreenyMix as my preference for the day 1 lynch? I'm almost certain GreenyMix would have been lynched day 1 had diff not replaced them and their lynch was going through with basically no resistance (part of the reason why I town read the slot).

Who do you currently think my mafia buddies are?

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

A: Your overly confrontational attitude seems very scummy to me. I’m going to be completely honest, most of the game i’ve felt like you’ve only attempted to pick apart people’s post to the miniscule detail because you are attempting to hide the fact that you are mafia and look good in the eyes of the town. The use of those pictures and videos you’ve been posting are absolutely ridiculous and proves even more your overly aggressive playstyle whenever confronted with criticism. If you really aren’t scum, then why are you so verbally violent? You could have replied to me by logically dismantling the argument, yet it’s like you lose your cool sometimes and turn into this caricature of yourself.

I don't consider myself overly confrontational. I picked apart your reads list and voted you to add pressure. I then gave you an opportunity to reply. I never mentioned you in any negative way from then on nor did I ever try and convince anyone else to vote for you. My vote was a request for information from you. All you had to do was reply to either appease or confirm my suspicions of you. Failing to respond to that and instead attacking me rather than defending yourself was never going to appease that. You just looked like a mafia member who knew they couldn't justify any of what they said so chose to lash out instead.

As for the picture, it was a joke. You seem to think that it was some great offence that I meant towards you. No. It was a joke. Because I thought that the idea of thinking I'm mafia for my claim was ludicrous. I'm honestly surprised I've received so many votes for it.

If you think that the way to identify mafia is to simply look at those who are being more 'verbally violent' or hostile, then I don't have any faith in any reads you can make. Being forward and aggressive is not a scum trait. My initial vote and post on you needed to be hostile. When you're hostile towards people it panics them. It means they're more likely to make mistakes. More likely to slip up and give greater indication that they are mafia. If you were to question someone in a more relaxed way and made it clear to them that their answers have no consequences, then you're hardly going to get much out of them. (I mean, a softer approach is sometimes better but I didn't view it as so in this case). From there, all my aggression towards you has been entirely motivated by your lack of desire to answer me or acknowledge my points against you. I find it ironic that you say I've turned hostile when confronted with criticism because that's exactly what you've done towards me ever since I voted you.

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

13: Why do you think that disagreeing on who had done townie things so far in the game automatically makes me scum?
A: I don’t understand your question. Context?

If I say A B and C are town and you say that X Y Z is town then why does it automatically make me scum just because I have a different opinion to you?

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

14: When did I try to make people lynch innocents? In what way was it obvious?
A: I’ve already said why i find you suspicious in answer 11. Also at that time when i wrote this, your lynch list had many people i did not particularly suspect.

I didn't ask you why you find me suspicious. I was asking about where you thought I was trying to lynch innocents. In my list I never told anyone else to vote for those people, I just gave a list of the people I'd feel comfortable voting. At no point was I ever advocating lynching random innocent people. You just twisted my words in your reads list to fit your idea that I am scum. To be honest, I think you know really that I'm not mafia. But that you have it in your head that I am and you don't have anything else to go on if I'm not. I don't understand why you'd vote for Slabdrill when your whole theory on who the scum team are solely relied on me being scum.

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

But honestly, your cop claim throws all that crap i wrote earlier under the water. I do not understand why you would reveal that you supposedly are the “cop” on day 2 when you haven’t even found a single mafia or let alone the serial killer. It just seems like such an uncharacteristic move for you to choose this strategy if you really were a cop. Let alone blow up like that when i confronted you about it.

I said why I'm claiming in my post that I claimed. Or did you not actually read it? Tbh, it would explain a lot if you stopped reading my post at the part where I said I was the cop.

I claimed because I don't believe I would live until day 3 unless I was protected by the doctor. Claiming is the only way to guarantee that I get that protection.
I claimed at the moment I did because that was the moment I remembered that the mafia has a role cop. Since they didn't decide to attack me or role block me night 1, I'm almost certain the investigated me.
As a result, I believe that the mafia already knew I was the cop. I also think that they would have picked up on my hints that Kirby is town. As a result, by not claiming, the only people I'm keeping in the dark are the rest of the town and the SK. Giving the town information that the mafia has is worth also giving the information to the SK especially when in the process it increases my chance of survival.

And don't get how you can you say this is 'uncharacteristic' for me when you very clearly don't know my character.

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

16: What were my "ha gotcha" attempts? Where do I try to lynch innocents over a spelling mistake/minor revelations? I don't believe that either of these things happened.
A: Read answer 11.

Answer 11 doesn't answer my question. I want you to point out to me where I have A) Done something to the effect of "ha, gotcha!" and B) Tried to lynch someone over a spelling mistake. Because neither of those things happened. I think you seriously need to re-read my posts because I don't understand how you can be misrepresenting me this much.

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

17: Do you really think that this theory is plausible in any way whatsoever? Do you think that I would be less active if I was a mafia power role?
A: Why not? It’s up to the group of mafia to decide what strategy they’ll be doing for the game. Is it really that implausible?

Why not? Because it's ridiculous. It's 100% a stab in the dark. In fact, it's not even a stab. That would suggest your theory has weight. Your theory is more like a pinprick. You think I'm specifically the goon because I'm vocal? What the actual hell. There is no evidence or weight or plausibility to that whatsoever. No one here for a second is willing to entertain that. Just ask them. People might think I'm mafia. Maybe they think I am the goon. But they certainly don't think that because I'm vocal of all things. I was vocal in the previous game. I was a mafia PR there. But guess what? I was vocal in every single game of mafia I've played on this forum and I'm vocal in every single game I've played on mafiascum (though comparatively, I'm fairly quiet there because my posts here look like mere bricks compared to the walls that get posted on mafiascum). Me being vocal does not have anything to do with my role. It's my playstyle. You're clutching at straws to suggest otherwise. If you ever play a game where I'm not talking all that much, then that would be your cue to analyse how much I'm talking. Y'know, I had only skim read your post before I wrote that sentence at the start of this post and reminding myself that you present yourself as genuinely believing this kind of stupid-logic theory puts me further towards revoking it.

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

20: Why do you think claiming cop makes me mafia? Why do you think that I'd choose to claim at the time that I did?
A: Already answered in answer 14.

14 doesn't answer the 2nd part of 20. There is no reason I'd claim at the time I did if I was mafia. Yes, mafia cop if they were about to be lynched. That would then expose the real cop and give them something out of their death. But I was not being lynched. I had no pressure on me. I had no reason to panic and claim a role. My claim was unprovoked. I actively decided to claim rather than being forced to. And I've already explained why there is virtually no benefit to mafia doing that whatsoever.

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

21: Can you be sure that you genuinely think claiming cop like I did is scummy? Did you start with the assumption that I was a cop and then conclude that I was mafia or did you already think I was mafia and hence think of a reason why mafia would claim cop?
A: It doesn’t really matter. What’s important is to stop the mafia, and the way i see it. This “cop reveal” could be an attempt by the mafia to put their mafia cop on a pedestal. The way you demand absolute trust from the town without actually having any information other than Kirby being townie is ludicrous. I’m starting to wonder if you’re just a bad townie cop which haven’t really thought this through. You know the serial killer is going to target you now right? Why would you be so stupid? You’re obviously going to die or kill the doctor in the next night. And you haven’t even found the serial killer yet.

It certainly does matter. If you already thought I was mafia, you're not going to see my claim as townie. As a result, you invent reasons for why my claim is scummy. It's called confirmation bias and, in my opinion, you're either heavily subjective to that right now or your mafia. I don't see an in between.

And I'm not a bad cop. It's entirely you who hasn't thought this through, not me. First of all, I can't catch the SK. If I investigate the SK I get the result "nothing" which is the same result I'd get if I'm roleblocked. Next, obviously the SK is going to want me dead now. That's why I want the doctor to protect me. The doctor doesn't die when they protect people from the SK, only the roleblockers die if they try to block the SK. Finally, you don't need a guilty to claim as a cop. Telling people who is innocent is almost as valuable. It narrows the lynch pool and it gives people confirmed town status. When you know someone is town, you don't have to analyse their every word and you know that all of their opinions come from a place of good intent.

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

Having the “initiative” is quite simply, staying at the top of the game, having public opinion on your side, making your opponent’s arguments seem flawed and weak. Etc… Something you lost when you posted that silly picture and “It’s time for you to die” or whatever it said. So i’m referring to what i perceive as you trying to make us forget about the agressive incident and returning to your usual argumentative self.

I'm not making your arguments seem flawed and weak. A lot of them just are flawed and weak. Anyone who can't see that just doesn't want to. And you even kind of proved it yourself when you admitted the amount of mistakes you made in your reads list. I would also say that I never had the initiative. It's not like I could say "Hey, go lynch that person!" and everyone will abide. And my silly picture was not an 'aggressive' incident. It was just a silly picture. You're the only one who sees this great aggression in me because most of what I've been saying in my most recent posts has been directed at you.

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

“If Mutantdevle is fake claiming cop, then the real cop should just speak up!” Assuming Kirby and you are the mafia, this could be an attempt by you two to make the real cop speak up so the mafia can nightkill him. I’m assuming this desperate plan would form from a real fear that you, Mutantdevle would be lynched by the end of the day, so they’d try to make some good from it.

Okay, but why would I claim cop in the first place? I wasn't at any risk of being lynched back when I claimed. Any mafia member would try to make some good from their death by fake claiming a PR. You'd be stupid not to. But I had nothing to 'make good' from. Mafia!me was already in a good position. You're suggesting that either I was motivated to claim by something that happened after my claim (being voted for) or that I randomly decided to throw away my good relation with the town for the sake of exposing not even the strongest PR (You can't fake claim a PR and live - either you die or the real PR dies and then you die).

So my question remains, where did I mess up to the point that I was likely to die and hence decided to fake claim cop?

Everyone read the rest of this please:

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

A: If you are the mafia cop, it would make more sense to fake claim being a regular cop rather than the seer. Because the seer is more powerful than your own mafia role equivalent. I believe you chose this course of action because you wanted to prove you were a “cop” to the town, of course this would be more trustworthy than claiming to be a seer and failing to understand what the power role is of people that “ask” to be investigated. I don’t think you planned on sacrificing yourself at all, i think you planned for everyone to believe your story without anyone questioning it whatsoever.

Okay, this has convinced me that you are town. I don't think mafia!you would think to be this ignorant to their own factions' roles.

It makes no sense at all for a mafia cop to fake claim cop.

As a cop, I can investigate people and learn their alignment. The seer investigates people and learns their role. The mafia role cop investigates people and learns their role. Seer and mafia role cop are exactly the same. By your own argument, it would make more sense for me to claim seer.

And I never said I was going to sacrifice myself. Please stop misrepresenting me. Why would I ask for the doctor's protection if I was 'sacrificing' myself? I want to stay alive for as many nights as I can to get as many results as I can.

Finally, you said earlier that you still believe your theory that I'm the mafia goon. So doesn't that kinda debunks your theory here that I'm the mafia cop? You've contradicted yourself. This is what I mean when I say your arguments are flawed an weak. I think that your best course of action from here is to reevaluate your reads.

After all that though, I'm glad that I can conclude you're town - figuring out your alignment is exactly what I wanted to do when I voted for you.

!unvote

mutantdevle · 2019-05-12 19:25:24

peace wrote:

ugh getting tired of walls of text by muttandevle sorry mutant but:
!Unvote
!lynch mutantdevle

peace wrote:

alos have to add that the doc is forced now to protect mutant IF hes the real cop and if the doc knows who is the see rhe coudlnt protect him becuase wwe woudl lsoe cop

Peace, unvote me please.

mrjawapa · 2019-05-12 19:29:06

!unvote

because I don't know where the **** we are

Kirby

Official Everybody Edits Forums

#376 2019-05-12 11:21:49

Re: Mafia 24 [Crybaby wins]

#377 2019-05-12 11:47:59

Re: Mafia 24 [Crybaby wins]

#378 2019-05-12 12:02:25

Re: Mafia 24 [Crybaby wins]

#379 2019-05-12 12:11:43

Re: Mafia 24 [Crybaby wins]

#380 2019-05-12 12:21:53

Re: Mafia 24 [Crybaby wins]

#381 2019-05-12 12:21:53

Re: Mafia 24 [Crybaby wins]

People who doubt my claim / suspect me as mafia

#382 2019-05-12 12:38:44

Re: Mafia 24 [Crybaby wins]

#383 2019-05-12 12:47:36

Re: Mafia 24 [Crybaby wins]

#384 2019-05-12 12:50:10

Re: Mafia 24 [Crybaby wins]

#385 2019-05-12 12:55:23

Re: Mafia 24 [Crybaby wins]

#386 2019-05-12 13:54:47

Re: Mafia 24 [Crybaby wins]

#387 2019-05-12 14:10:44

Re: Mafia 24 [Crybaby wins]

#388 2019-05-12 14:26:32

Re: Mafia 24 [Crybaby wins]

#389 2019-05-12 15:55:20

Re: Mafia 24 [Crybaby wins]

#390 2019-05-12 16:01:37

Re: Mafia 24 [Crybaby wins]

#391 2019-05-12 16:15:01

Re: Mafia 24 [Crybaby wins]

#392 2019-05-12 16:22:17

Re: Mafia 24 [Crybaby wins]

#393 2019-05-12 18:14:51

Re: Mafia 24 [Crybaby wins]

#394 2019-05-12 18:30:14

Re: Mafia 24 [Crybaby wins]

#395 2019-05-12 18:31:35

Re: Mafia 24 [Crybaby wins]

#396 2019-05-12 18:48:13

Re: Mafia 24 [Crybaby wins]

#397 2019-05-12 19:21:04

Re: Mafia 24 [Crybaby wins]

#398 2019-05-12 19:24:47

Re: Mafia 24 [Crybaby wins]

Mostly NorwegianboyEE but there are some smaller details that I think others could benefit from too:

Everyone read the rest of this please:

#399 2019-05-12 19:25:24

Re: Mafia 24 [Crybaby wins]

#400 2019-05-12 19:29:06, last edited by Tomahawk (2019-05-12 21:53:57)

Re: Mafia 24 [Crybaby wins]

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