Mafia 24 [Crybaby wins]

mutantdevle · 2019-05-11 14:15:31

If anyone has skipped over some of my previous posts because they're too long, then I can only ask that you read this one:

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

MrJawapa: Appears to be bored of this whole mafia thing. Most likely sad he got a regular townie role and doesn’t even care anymore.

Could you please explain why you think MrJawapa appears to be bored? I don't get that impression from him at all. In my opinion, he seems to be playing fairly similarly to how he was last game.

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

ILikeTofuuJoe: I’m not sure about this guy yet. All i know is that he didn’t do much, until he started posting in Cyan and making random nonsensical stats.
Suspicion level= 30%
Luka504: Has brought up some pretty good points and is active. He understands that we need to start lynching suspicious people fast, which is not what i believe a mafia would say.
Suspicion level= 30%

This is your first instance of stupid logic in this post. You say you are "not sure about" ILikeTofuuJoe and that he's posting in cyan. In what world does that make him only 30% suspicious? If you genuinely don't know, wouldn't he be more around the 50% mark? And why on Earth is Luka then also 30%? You gave nothing but compliments to Luka. He's active, making good points, wants to lynch suspicious people, and you actively label his actions as something mafia wouldn't do. But in your opinion, that makes him exactly the same level of townie/suspicion as someone who, by your own admission, you're not sure about. Geez, does posting in cyan really make you that townie?

On the topic of your comments about Luka, I'd just like to ask, who are these 'suspicious' people he's been wanting to lynch? Do you mean Anatoly and Peace? lol. Why doesn't everyone else who's been wanting to lynch those 2 get the same praise?

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

Onjit: Experienced of this game, but he appears to be on the town’s side. He puts some effort into his posts and makes some good points. I hope i’m not wrong, but i think he is trustworthy.
Suspicion level= 30%

I see that making good points and being trustworthy is also exactly the same as someone who you're unsure of and is posting in cyan.

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

Peace:[...] He appears to be attempting very hard to portray himself as a townie member. Which can be taken two ways. Either he genuinely is a townie, or he is trying to divert attention from himself and the fact that he is scum.
Suspicion level= 40%

So which is it? You don't make a conclusion here. Did you not know that it's common for scum to not make their mind up on things so that they have wiggle room to change their opinion? The percentage being on the lower side of 50% makes me think that you believe it's the former. Which begs the question, if you believe peace is town, why does Luka get good boy points for wanting to lynch him?

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

Slabdrill: Another gut feeling of mine. He isn’t being very helpful, and it’s like he is sneaking in the shadows, observing but not wanting to get any attention towards himself. I think he is communicating with his mafia buddies and refraining from posting in this thread at all.

I'll give you a pass on this one since you probably didn't know this, but Slabdrill ALWAYS lurks. And that fact along kind of blows apart your entire case on him. You're better off being like Onjit and looking at the difference between his lurking rather than just the inactivity in itself. Also, why is it only Slabdrill you criticise for this? These same comments could be applied to both Kirby and the cyan townie. They could even be applied to Diff which I'm coming to...

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

Different55: Wooting a lot of posts from Mutantdevle, the fact that he supports Mutantdevle’s laughable efforts is more than enough to make him a prime suspect for potential guilty mafia members.

First of all, what about my efforts are laughable? That's kinda mean

Secondly...

DIFF HASN'T EVEN WOOTED ANY OF MY POSTS, WTF??? Why are you lying to us?

Even giving you the benefit of the doubt, if you for some reason thought that Diff was wooting a lot of my posts, why would you not also criticise him for, like Slabdrill, not staying much and staying in the shadows?

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

Mutantdevle: Look at his “preference for lynching” list. It has all the people i believe are townies. He is most definitely the more vocal “goon” member of the mafia. Trying to make us lynch innocent’s in the most obvious way possible. Posting random “lel funni” **** to pretend he is just a townie. Not to mention his random “Ha gotcha!!” attempts to lynch innocents over spelling mistakes or minor revelations. Yeah right. Highly suspicious.

Bold of you to assume that a simple lack of agreement must mean that I'm mafia.
Weird for you to say that me being vocal is evidence of being, not only mafia, but specifically the goon and not make the more obvious conclusion that I'll always be active in every game of mafia because I enjoy it and tend to have a lot to say due to my experience of games that last literal months.
Manipulative of you to suggest that I'm trying to get innocents lynched when I've only ever made 1 vote and I haven't really actively told others to vote for any individuals. In fact, I think I've defended more people than I have tried to get anyone lynched.
Hypocritical of you to criticise me for posting '****' when you, and many others who you are not criticising for the same thing, have also made your fair share of ****.
Blatantly lying of you to accuse me of trying to lynch people for spelling mistakes. Like seriously, where did you get that from? Please point out to me my "Ha gotcha!!" attempts and criticisms of spelling? lol

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

Random person wrote:
But why would you lynch Slabdrill over Mutantdevle if that is your prime suspect?
Answer: It's a strategic play. I believe Mutantdevle's attempt to be the most vocal member in his mafia group is because he doesn't have a power role. My current theory is that Diff and Slabdrill has power roles and are attempting to "lay low" while Mutantdevle does all of the talking. If the Goon (Mutantdevle) get's lynched it's a tolerable loss for the mafia because he doesn't have a power role, but if one of the mafia members with a power role get's lynched it would be catastrophic. So yes, i agree with Onjit. We should definitely lynch either Slabdrill or Diff. However i am leaning more towards the former than the latter.

Ahh no, you've foiled my plan! You're right. I was planning on being vocal so that you'd lynch me. That's right, I wanted all the votes! That way, you'd never have time to lynch or look at my mafia buddies. I'd do all the talking so that when I flip scum you'd have A LOT to analyse. Because I'm expendable. That's right, I'd have no value to a mafia team whatsoever.

To be honest, I think the real reason you're not voting for me is that you don't have the balls to. You have nothing against me and even had to lie just to come up with something of substance to criticise me for. You had to lie just to tie me in with other players. Like, there are some valid criticisms of me that others have made. Yeah, it is kinda scummy that I'm seemingly giving less active people a free pass. But you didn't criticise me for that. You decided to invent your own reasons.

Your whole reads list here just smells of **** and makes it obvious to me that you don't believe any of this. You know who the mafia and that makes it harder for you to give reasons for why you suspect people which has made your logic make no sense in many cases. You selectively criticise people for things just for the sake of this list and you've lied on several occasions just to give substance to your points.

I look forward to seeing your response to my points.

!vote NorwegianboyEE

mutantdevle · 2019-05-11 14:55:28

peace wrote:

EDIT: i **** dup my pist forget teh first quote
zumza wrote:
ILikeTofuuJoe wrote:
!vote mutantdevle
If mutantdevle = scum, kirby = scum. That's is very like to appen. Also I'm suspicious of diff of being a cop. If diff = cop, luka = scum.
Where did this cop thing got out from? Did I lost my focus on something?
mutantdevle wrote:
If Kirby = town, mutantdevle = town.

Yeah, the format of what he said mirrored what I said but Zumza was questioning why ILikeTofuuJoe thinks diff is the cop. Personally, I don't think he has any greater reason for thinking Diff is the cop and, instead, it's just an assessment that Diff seemed to think that specifically Luka should be killed which could hint at Diff being a cop with a guilty on Luka.

Though, bringing this back into my mind does make me question why ILikeTofuuJoe would point out that he thinks Diff is the cop. Surely, if you knew who the cop was you wouldn't want to point that out to the mafia?

mutantdevle · 2019-05-11 21:44:30

Luka504 wrote:

Did you mean to say "quality over quantity"? I do agree that people should focus on making higher quality posts instead of a mountain of useless garble, but I don't feel like some of the people you trust (Kirby and slabdrill) have done enough to justify earning it.

Yeah, I only just realised I posted it the wrong way round

What I will say is that I'm not really looking at posts and thinking "are they contributing?" I'm more thinking "what is the motivation behind them saying this?". All that list took was just 1 post that I concluded "town would say this" or "scum wouldn't say this", with no other posts that conclude the opposite, for me to exclude people from it.

peace wrote:

i wasnt sur eso i didnt vote yet but now hteres a vote on him lets vote too

Yeah I'd be willing to vote him. However, I want to keep my vote on norweiganboy at least until he replies.

mutantdevle · 2019-05-11 22:36:58

Different55 wrote:

And since peace has said they were protected last night, I think we should really be focusing on figuring that out. That's a super valuable bit of info. In a lot of games, night actions only return info to the user. We now have a chunk of valuable info about the mafia and doc/roleblock/whatever role without endangering the doc. We should take advantage of that.
Since only one person died last night, it seems like somebody tried and failed to kill peace. Doc should absolutely stay silent and we should probably be looking at who would want to kill peace. Actually agreeing with Luka for a moment, peace isn't the most skilled player so if maf tried to take them out, it was probably for personal rather than strategic reasons. Which actually points me back in the direction of Luka again since he seems to love to make things personal (unless faking personal reasons was a strategic move to point us exactly in that direction).

You're totally right. We probably should have been analysing this situation a lot more than just being a bit suspicious of peace so I'm going to look more into the night events now:

I think that the first thing we need to figure out is, was it the mafia or the SK that tried to kill peace? I highly doubt anyone would view peace as a threat to them, so because of that, I think it was the SK. The only person the SK is playing for is themself. As a result, they are more likely to be personally motivated. On the other hand, the mafia are more team orientated. It's more unlikely that they'd make odd kill choices like peace unless there was some strategic motivation behind it. The main exception to this is if the 'leader' of the mafia heavily demands that peace be killed. To clarify, by 'leader', I simply mean the most vocal member of the mafia team. There tends to be 1 person calling the shots whilst the other 2 are content with standard input (I find that mafia teams tend to form better when everyone is vocal rather than just individuals). I don't think that anyone here has that much of a hatred towards peace to be able to overpower the opinion of their teammates, so I'm going with a strong guess that it was the SK that tried to kill peace.

With that established, we now know 2 things about the enemy factions. 1) The SK valued killing peace (presumably to increase their enjoyment of the game) over making a strategic kill. 2) The mafia thought that taskmanager was the optimal kill.

Let's look at the SK first. Here are the people who I think are unlikely to want to kill peace (pretty much solely based on their attitudes towards him on the forums):
NorwegianboyEE, Different55, Zumza, peace (obviously), 2B55B5G TNG, mutantdevle, Kirby, Slabdrill & ILikeTofuuJoe.

Jawapa, Onjit and Luka (in my opinion) I think would all have some sort of motivation to kill peace if they were a SK. The motivations could range from not liking peace to just finding him even slightly annoying or maybe they'd perform such a kill simply because they think it would be funny.

Next, let's look at the mafia. Which individuals would see value in killing taskmanager? The most obvious way to answer this question would be to look at what taskmanager's opinions were when he was alive. The only 2 people he ever had a disagreement with were Anatoly and NorwegianboyEE. I think that by the end of day 1 his issues with both of those 2 were resolved. To be honest, upon reading his posts in isolation, I don't think that anything taskmanger said will help us figure out why the mafia would want him dead. Instead, I think that we again have to look at those who hold a high enough opinion of taskmanager. And... that's pretty much everyone. So no help there. Finally, I just CTRL+F-ed through day 1 to try and read if anyone mentions taskmanager in a way that could suggest motive for wanting him dead. Unfortunately, pretty much no one mentioned him outside of **** posts. In conclusion, I don't think there is anything we can learn from taskmanager's death - which may be why they killed him.

This, of course, all assumes that peace isn't lying to us about being protected. There's plausible reasoning for why someone might want him dead, but I don't see much of a reason for someone to go out of their way to protect him. The only reason I can think of is if someone had a lucky guess that peace would be targetted for his demeanour. But either way, if peace is lying, then I'm sure that would be exposed eventually.

Slabdrill, 2b55b5g

mutantdevle · 2019-05-11 22:50:06

Whilst writing my prvious post I was thinking more and more about how I don't think that I will survive the night without the protection of the doctor. With the knowledge that we have a doctor that protected peace of all people, I think that both the mafia and the SK would be more confident in trying to kill me. And upon thinking about that, I remembered something. The mafia has a role cop. If they didn't want to kill me night 1, then I don't see any situation in which they didn't check my role. They only way they didn't is if they got role blocked. So I'm fairly certain that the mafia knows my role. As a result, I don't think I have any reason to keep my role a secret.

I'm the cop.

Kirby is town.

I hope that clears up to anyone why I magically trusted Kirby. After all:

mutantdevle wrote:

If Kirby = town, mutantdevle = town.

Only the first line there wasn't a ****.

mutantdevle wrote:

I have no idea why people took that so seriously and tried to analyse it like I had put any degree of thought into it beyond the first line.

I don't for a moment believe any of the other 5/6 statements that I made in that post. Aka:

mutantdevle wrote:

It was 86% ****

So with my claim being out there, I'd like to say 3 things:

1. @Doctor: please protect me every single night from now on. That way, you basically give me invincibility until you die.
2. I'm now going to listen to others on who they think I should check during the night. That way, we can find out people's alignments without the risk of losing their contribution.
3. Is there anyone who'd specifically like me to investigate them so that they can share confirmed town status with both me and Kirby?

Kirby

mutantdevle · 2019-05-11 23:24:48

I like how instead of replying to my criticisms of you you've decided to dig your own grave. I was giving you the benefit of the doubt earlier when I saw you on the forums but not replying in the thread, I thought that you just didn't have time.

It's time for you to die.

mutantdevle · 2019-05-11 23:34:03

Oh ****... I just remembered why I wasn't claiming...

**** mafia roleblocker fml.

mutantdevle · 2019-05-11 23:35:23

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

Why would you investigate Kirby if you were really a cop?

Because he exposed me as scum last game through an investigation

If I could do the same to him, then I wanted to.

mutantdevle · 2019-05-12 09:54:44

This is honestly ridiculous.

I can understand being cautious of the claim. But instantly deducing it comes from mafia without a second thought or a look at the context surrounding the claim I just don't think comes from town motivation.

If we are to narrow this down to "mutantdevle vs norweiganboy", and you're deciding to side with norweiganboy, then what you're saying is that you're siding with someone who blatantly lied about several points in their reads list. Someone who criticises certain players for one thing but gives others a free pass. And who thinks posting in cyan is just as trustworthy as having good points and trying to lynch scum. None of which he's decided to justify.

However, given that my claim was completely independent of my case against norweiganboy, this situation isn't as binary as "mutantdevle vs norweiganboy", however, I currently believe that the votes against me are likely motivated by trying to defend norweiganboy rather than any actual criticism of me.

For those of you saying it's 'stupid' for me to be claiming cop without being under pressure, I only ask that you take a look at a previous game. 2B55B5G TNG expressed a desire to claim some information unprovoked. When he then did claim, a sort of butterfly effect occurred which lead to town winning the game. Furthermore, in a setup like this, if everyone claimed at the start of day 1 it would be almost impossible for town to lose. If everyone claimed, the mafia and SK would have to either claim they are a PR, which would then lead to a 1v1 fight between them and the real PR, or they'd have to claim vanilla townie. Once all the 1v1 fights are resolved, every power role is confirmed and the rest of the game can be spent lynching and shooting vanilla townies. If someone got lucky and claimed a role that's not in the game, that would become more and more obvious when the PRs are killed off at night. Meanwhile, there's potentially 2 investigative roles and a vig helping narrow the pool further whilst a potential doctor and roleblocker work to reduce the number of kills. Although it wouldn't be a guaranteed win, it greatly reduces the lynch pool and hence increases the chance that each lynch ends in a scum's death. This tactic is commonly known as 'massclaim' and has the power to break a lot of setups. Personally, I don't think that breaking setups would be particularly fun on a forum like this as I don't think we should be expecting amazing game-balance skills from anyone that hosts.

Finally, I'd like to ask the people voting me and/or sceptical of my claim what motivation they'd think I have in claiming cop? I told you my motivation. I realised that the mafia had a role cop and hence were incredibly likely to kill me tonight. I set up my crumb that Kirby was town quite nicely so I'm sure you'd have been able to figure out if I did get killed. However, when I claimed, I forgot about the mafia roleblocker. But in writing this right now I've again realised that if the mafia were ever going to keep me alive, of course they were going to roleblock me. So nothing's changed on that front except that now everyone knows my role rather than just the mafia and the chance I survive the night has increased.

What would I gain if I was mafia in this situation? Fake claiming cop is too risky. What if there was a counterclaim? "You'd expose the cop!" Okay, great, but now I'm dead and 2 people are confirmed as town. Perhaps the cop was even hiding a guilty and now 2 members of the mafia are as good as dead. And if this was an attempt to expose a power role, surely I'd claim seer? Y'know, the stronger version of the cop. Trading members of the mafia for a PR is not a tactical thing for the mafia to do. The only time mafia would ever fake claim is if they are being lynched as a last-ditch attempt to either live or expose a PR with their death.

Slabdrill

mutantdevle · 2019-05-12 10:21:08

Slabdrill wrote:

@mutantdevle: I'm a bit curious about that 86% figure (which is 6/7) as that post distinctly has SEVEN lines

Lol yeah. I meant 6/7 not 5/6.

mrjawapa wrote:

As scummy as this may sound, I'm a vanilla townie.

Wow Jawapa, you must be scum! It's unlike you to release information like that when you're not really under any pressure...

Onjit wrote:

Just a hunch tbh, but it seems like he's generally been more combative, trying to direct the flow of conversation, rather than actually trying to figure people out. also his claim seems to like up almost too conveniently

Could you provide examples of where I'm being more combative and trying to direct the flow of conversation?

Because I can provide examples of where I've been "actually trying to figure people out":

▼Hidden text

mutantdevle wrote:

So was I a suspect of yours when you voted for me initially? Because you said that it was just a random vote. Why are you trying to hide the reason that you're voting for me? Is it because you don't really have a reason?

Y'know Mr Anatoly, it seems that at the start of this day you decided that you wanted me dead. Did you come to that conclusion after reading your role PM? Why do you want me dead Mr Anatoly? Am I a threat to you? Because I think that you think I am. So is it paranoia that I might be evil? Or is it you who is the evil one? Because do you know what Mr Anatoly? I don't think you are mafia. No, you're nothing like your previous self that I got to know fairly well last game by being aligned with you. No, I don't think you're mafia at all. You seem to have purpose here. The things you have said, it's like you want to help. You're trying to. You have a reason to solve the game, you don't know everyone's alignment. But just because you're not mafia, doesn't mean you're not evil...

I wonder why you so freely told us that you didn't have a role. To make the investigatives not want to investigate you? To make the mafia not want to shoot at you? Tell me Mr Anatoly, are you a townie who is trying too hard to solve the game? The townie that wants to be seen as the hero? I have my doubts. Let me just ask you this, are you the https://i.imgur.com/NuGHuQ3.gif

Investigating Anatoly's motives.

mutantdevle wrote:

@peace, how do you know you were protected?
Were you told that you were attacked, and then saved by a doctor? Or were you just told that a doctor visited you?

Trying to figure out if peace's claim is legit under the suspicion that the real message he got was that he was "immune" to the attack.

mutantdevle wrote:

NorwegianboyEE wrote:
I kind of agree with Luka, we really need to start lynching someone if we hope to get any mafia at all. And we've got nothing to really focus on rather than Peace's weird revelation.
!Lynch Peace
Do you have any reason to lynch peace other than that you'd think it would be easy to do so?

Questioning norwegianboy's motive for wanting to lynch peace.

mutantdevle wrote:

2B55B5G TNG - his behaviour this game seems to contrast heavily against the previous one. He doesn't strike me as having nearly as much enthusiasm or desire to solve the game. In my opinion, he's a lot more cautious here. I don't think that's coming from a burnout. His hesitance makes me suspect that he is scum.

mutantdevle wrote:

2B55B5G TNG wrote:
I become more cautious because when I was town last game, I speak some random things which makes me become very suspicious. I don’t want to do the same mistake again.
I find this to be a weak defence considering you were one of the most trustworthy people last game. I don't think you were ever accused of being mafia by anyone. You were only accused of being loaf by a select few people. Considering that, I don't understand why you'd switch up your playstyle. But thanks for admitting that you have consciously changed your approach to the way you are playing this game. That cements to me that either A) You are mafia (or, less likely, SK) or B) You majorly misinterpreted people's criticisms of you last game.

I'm clearly putting pressure on 2B55 here in an effort to get him to talk with the purpose of trying to figure out how conscious he is of his change of play and whether or not it's motivated by experience or a change in alignment.

I want this one outside the spoiler because I think it's further proof of my cop inno on Kirby:
(In general, I think you should isolate me and do a CTRL+F search for Kirby. I think it's very obvious that I'm a cop with an inno on him).

mutantdevle wrote:

mrjawapa wrote:
Y'know what? Kirby, I'm tired of your negativity.
You are bringing the moral down in this town, and I can't take it.
!vote kirby
What kind of a **** reason is that? lol. I do hope that I'm not ironically missing a **** post here.

This comment was designed to see how jawapa would respond to having his reason for voting Kirby being called ****.

What have you done to try and figure people out Onjit? When I isolate your posts I see you forming opinions but I don't see you asking many questions to try and get them.

I'd also like you to elaborate on why you think my claim is 'convenient'?

mutantdevle · 2019-05-12 10:30:51

Different55 wrote:

Uhh no thoughts currently on this bandwagon, want to do some more reading. But as I was reading through, devle, you mentioned the possibility that SK went after peace? I thought the SK was unstoppable at night. They may not kill the intended target but they will kill *someone*, right? Whoever tries to protect the intended target at least.

The doctor can stop a SK I'm pretty sure. Just a role blocker can't.

Luka504 wrote:

This would only be correct if peace was attacked last night, however, he stated numerous times that he hasn't been attacked, only protected by the doctor.

peace said that the message only tells him that he was protected. It doesn't specify one way or another if he was attacked. However, I suspect that he wouldn't be told that the doctor visited him if he wasn't attacked. Either way, we will probably have the answer tomorrow. If there are 2 kills and no one claims being protected by the doctor then we'll know that he 100% was attacked.

Luka504 wrote:

but Devlin is so far suspicious to me. For most of the game, I felt like there was something off with Devlin's behaviour. Sure, he still had his rather prideful mindset of "I'm amazing at mafia" and junk, but I felt like it wasn't the same.
He seems a lot more aggressive, Imo. Especially when he posted a picture of Norwegianboy literally digging his own grave, stating "it's time for you to die"
I would understand if you were a cop and got a guilty result on him, but by your own admission, you haven't. So what's with you this game?

So let me get this straight. You're comparing my behaviour in this game to my behaviour in the previous one and noticing that there is a difference? I mean, you realise I was mafia in the previous game right? If you're noticing a difference, it's because my alignment has changed.

Different55, Slabdrill

mutantdevle · 2019-05-12 10:42:37

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

Who says "it’s time for you to die" with the picture of a gravestone and expects to be seen as the good guy?

Have you never heard of humour?

Also, who blatantly lies in their reads list and expects to be seen as the good guy?

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

If i die in the next night, or get lynched. It will only prove my point. In fact, i welcome death at this point.

I'm down for this.

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

Also in Mutant’s quote pyramid you can see this quote:
[“Your whole reads list here just smells of **** and make it obvious to me that you don’t believe any of this.]
That sounds like some serious attempt at discrediting me.

Dude, you deserve to be discredited. You lied several times. Why aren't you addressing that? Your entire scum read on diff was that he was wooting lots of my posts yet he never even wooted 1.
Furthermore, you criticised people for something that others also did yet seemingly gave those others a free pass on it. Do you have nothing to say about that?
And finally, you haven't justified why you think someone you're "unsure of" and posts in cyan has the same suspicion level as both Luka and Onjit who you described as actively trying to solve the game and trustworthy.

Your reads list doesn't make any sense. Barely anything rings true about it. It honestly seems like you just made half of it up and that could only come from mafia who struggle to feign reads.

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

Did i hit the bullseye?

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

These are the signs of a mafia member, using intimidation technique to have things go his way. Why did he react so strongly to my sternly worded criticism? I believe it is in fact because he is very afraid that we might lynch him and reveal his accomplices.

I'm not so sure you actually know what the 'signs of a mafia member' are. Aggression is not exclusively a scum trait. Your 'sternly worded criticism' consisted of lies. You've yet to justify them.

And if we are talking about 'signs of a mafia member', do you maybe wanna explain why you are hyperbolic in how you represent things that I have said? Eg. "he's demanding the doctor protects him" when all I did was ask if they could?

mutantdevle · 2019-05-12 11:04:24

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

Let me justify the cyan claim. It was a J O K E. I had no real reason to either suspect or promote IlikeTofuuJoe's innocence. Are we done with that silly point now?

I don't genuinely believe you think posting in cyan makes someone town. My main issue is that you gave him the same suspicion level as 2 people that you had nothing but compliments for when your other point about him was that you're unsure. If you said that you think he's really towny AND he posts in cyan, there'd be no issue. But you put him, a null, on the same level as people you thought were null. Or was his position on your reads list a joke too? Because if so, I don't know why you expect anyone to give any form of credit to your reads.

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

I also see you have toned down your language considerably. I suppose your shocking display of aggression didn't work out the way you had hoped? You know, when you said "It's time for you to die"? How can you claim this isn't anything personal when you so desperately wanted to see me die? Why is that? Are you trying to manipulate the conversation so you can regain the initiative?

As far as I'm concerned, I haven't 'toned down' anything. There's nothing personal to this at all. I think you're mafia because your reads look fake and I want you dead for it. It's as simple as that. I gave you the opportunity to justify your reads or correct any mistakes you may have made when writing it, but instead, as soon as you saw my cop claim you decided to go full lynch mode on me and ever since then you've gone full out against me. Nothing I can say to you will ever be right because your only purpose now is to fight me. And to be fair, I also think you're irredeemable at this stage. You could surprise me, but I doubt it.

Also, what do you mean by "Are you trying to manipulate the conversation so you can regain the initiative?"? It just looks like you've thrown words together to essentially just say "I think you're bad".

mutantdevle · 2019-05-12 11:05:10

Luka504 wrote:

Devlin dude you write so much that it's extremely difficult to keep track of everything.

I just have a lot to say :/

mutantdevle · 2019-05-12 11:07:27

Oops, I forgot to include like half my post with post #372:

Onjit wrote:

If devle is mafia, then he has a 8/9 chance of guessing that a player is town, and even if he got it wrong it's not like the SK would admit it

Also a high chance that I would be counterclaimed, one of the cops is then lynched revealing the identity of the other. If the mafia is lynched, they gain nothing. If the town is lynched, congrats you've killed the cop. But now we know who the mafia is so the mafia dies too. And in the process, the real cop has either exposed a 2nd mafia or had someone confirmed as town. Trading a mafia life for the death of a PR is not worth the trade unless the mafia member was already likely going to die.

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

We realize we messed up so we want the cop to reveal himself so we can kill him later?

In what way did I 'mess' up? There was no threat to me whatsoever when I claimed. And again, fake claiming cop to get the real cop to expose themself is trading a mafia life for a PR which is stupid and not worth it.

And why the hell, if my motivation was to expose a PR, would I not instead fake claim as the seer? Your arguments fall apart way too easily.

peace wrote:

wtf soo much posts i tired to read all also mutant why tf woudl you reveal youre cops and want the doc to protect you every night? isnt tha kinda dumb?

It's not dumb. The cop claiming and having a doctor protect them the entire time is an effective strategy. This is known as 'follow the cop': https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti … ow_the_Cop

"The Cop claims immediately, and the Town votes No Lynch while the Doctor stays hidden. The Cop will get a result overnight, the hidden Doctor will protect the Cop, and the Mafia is powerless to stop it without first finding and killing the Doctor at Night. The Town will continue to No Lynch unless the Cop comes forward with a guilty result, which will then be lynched. However, by the time the Doctor is killed by the Mafia the Town should have enough reads from the Cop to finish the rest of the game via process of elimination."

I'm not expecting us to do that fully, but the premise of the doctor protecting exclusively the cop (or seer since they are stronger than the cop) is far from stupid.

peace wrote:

alos why are you so imporatnat if there is a seer role aswell whic can invetigate and see the full orle of someone? (asumign all roles are used and left over players are just normal townies..) or are you mafia and want doctors protect? how can you be sure you got checke dlast night by mafia cop?

Theoretically, I'm not more important than anyone else. In fact, from a mechanical point of view, the seer is definitely more important than I am and if they ever claim then I'd fully expect the doctor to be protecting them instead of me. I suspect that I was checked last night because, since I'm quite experienced in playing mafia and tend to be incredibly vocal, a lot of people want me dead. If the mafia didn't try to kill me, I think it's because they assumed I'd be protected. They also didn't roleblock me and I find it unlikely that they wouldn't target me with anything.

Sorry for all the walls of text, I just like to answer every point or question directed towards me.

mutantdevle · 2019-05-12 11:18:50

2B55B5G TNG wrote:

What’s the difference between a classic cop and a seer? There are no roles in this game that can ‘fool’ the classic cop.” when a classic cop check a person’s alignment.

Seer is just a role cop. They get the role card of a player which includes their role and alignment.

This is all the roles that could be in this game: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1jVA … th9uQ/edit

mutantdevle · 2019-05-12 12:21:53

I'm going to start putting who my posts are aimed towards at the top of my posts so that anyone who wants to skip over some of my walls of text can.

People who doubt my claim / suspect me as mafia

peace wrote:

yeah btu tthe article alos describle smafia can fake this so if ur mafia and fake hits you would be prtected the entire game

The article only mentions mafia counter claiming the cop to prevent the strategy (and losing a mafia member in the process), but yes, it is possible I could be mafia trying to do this. The mafia could do anything a town person does and a town person could do anything mafia does. The question is, which am I? The way you figure that out is by looking at motivation.

Think: what motivation would I have in fake claiming a cop who wants to be protected by the doctor?

"You'll be protected by the doctor"

Okay, why, as mafia would I want that?

"You can't be killed by the SK"

That's very little gain, but it's still motivation. It would be greater gain if the vig was still alive.

"It ensures that no townie is being protected by the doctor"

Again, since the chances of a kill being stopped by the doctor are actually fairly low, that's not much gain. But there is definitely something for mafia to gain from fake claiming cop.

But now let's look at the consequences. What would happen if a mafia member fake claimed cop:

"The cop would counterclaim"

There is a chance there is no cop. In which case, the mafia would get away with it. But that's a huge gamble. So what if there is a cop?

"The real cop would say who they've investigated and 1 of the cop claims would be lynched"

If the mafia member gets lynched then the mafia will gain nothing and they'll crucially lose one of their members in the process. Furthermore, the cop will be confirmed as town and no doubt be protected by the doctor. Aka, the mafia will achieve the opposite of what they were trying to do. Furthermore, if the cop has an innocent result that innocent is also confirmed town. And even worse, if the cop had a guilty result then the mafia will lose 2 members which basically just **** themselves over.

"But what if the real cop is lynched instead"

When the cop is lynched, the mafia member fake claiming cop gets exposed as mafia. As a result, they die anyway. So the mafia still loses a member. Furthermore, the real cop's result is also then believed. So that's either someone being confirmed as town or a 2nd mafia member exposed. Either way, it's bad for the mafia. They don't get doctor protection and they don't prevent the doctor from protecting townies. All they achieve is killing the cop but at the cost of either (1 mafia member + confirming someone as town) or (2 mafia members). Is there really anyone here that thinks that sounds worth it?

So what can we conclude? We can conclude that, whilst there is certainly motivation behind a mafia member claiming cop, there is a high chance that they are worse off after it. The only time it would ever pay off is if they get lucky and there is no cop in the game.

So to anyone who thinks I'm lying about my role, do you seriously think that, as a mafia member, I'd willing to risk **** up the game for my team just for the sake of trying to get immunity from the SK and reducing the chances the doctor protects a townie?

mutantdevle · 2019-05-12 12:50:10

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

Ok, Mutant. Do you think we should let other people say what’s on their mind now? Let’s just stay quiet for a while so people can catch up on what’s going on.

I'm all for giving everyone else a chance to talk and having their input on this situation but you've barely answered anything I've asked of you. I know you've been reading my questions because you've wooted other people's posts. Why are you avoiding my questions?

mutantdevle · 2019-05-12 13:54:47

Sure:

1: What is it that Anatoly said that made you trust that his rolecard is not mafia?

2: What kind of behaviour are made you think that 2B55 is townie?

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

MrJawapa: Appears to be bored of this whole mafia thing. Most likely sad he got a regular townie role and doesn’t even care anymore.

3: What did jawapa say that gave you the impression that jawapa was bored and didn't care?

You said the following things about each of these players:

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

ILikeTofuuJoe: I’m not sure about this guy yet. All i know is that he didn’t do much
Luka504: Has brought up some pretty good points and is active. He understands that we need to start lynching suspicious people fast, which is not what i believe a mafia would say.
Onjit: he appears to be on the town’s side. He puts some effort into his posts and makes some good points.[...] i think he is trustworthy.

4: Given you're 'not sure' about Joe, but have called the other 2 town, why are they all the same suspicion level?

5: Who were the 'suspicious people' that you think Luka was trying to lynch?

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

Peace:[...] Either he genuinely is a townie, or he is trying to divert attention from himself and the fact that he is scum.

6: Which do you think it is?

7: What's your opinion on Slabdrill after knowing he isn't very active in every game?

8: Why did you only feel the need to criticise Slabdrill for not being very active when plenty of other players were also not very active at the time?

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

Different55: Wooting a lot of posts from Mutantdevle, the fact that he supports Mutantdevle’s laughable efforts is more than enough to make him a prime suspect for potential guilty mafia members.

9: Why did you lie about this? He never wooted any of my posts and before this post he had never expressed any support of me other than that he also questioned why people were suspecting peace.

10: Is there anything other than this that you think makes diff look scummy?

11: What about my efforts prior to this post did you find laughable?

12: Why didn't you criticise Diff for not being very active when you did for Slabdrill?

13: Why do you think that disagreeing on who had done townie things so far in the game automatically makes me scum?

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

Mutantdevle: [...] Trying to make us lynch innocent’s in the most obvious way possible. Posting random “lel funni” **** to pretend he is just a townie. Not to mention his random “Ha gotcha!!” attempts to lynch innocents over spelling mistakes or minor revelations. Yeah right. Highly suspicious.

14: When did I try to make people lynch innocents? In what way was it obvious?

15: Why do you think I should be criticised for making **** when you and others have done the same?

16: What were my "ha gotcha" attempts? Where do I try to lynch innocents over a spelling mistake/minor revelations? I don't believe that either of these things happened.

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

Random person wrote:
But why would you lynch Slabdrill over Mutantdevle if that is your prime suspect?
Answer: It's a strategic play. I believe Mutantdevle's attempt to be the most vocal member in his mafia group is because he doesn't have a power role. My current theory is that Diff and Slabdrill has power roles and are attempting to "lay low" while Mutantdevle does all of the talking. If the Goon (Mutantdevle) get's lynched it's a tolerable loss for the mafia because he doesn't have a power role, but if one of the mafia members with a power role get's lynched it would be catastrophic.

17: Do you really think that this theory is plausible in any way whatsoever? Do you think that I would be less active if I was a mafia power role?

18: Why did you not bring up the criticism of me that the people on my list were some of the more active people in the game?

19: Given that I had 18 points of criticism about your reads list, can you understand why I believe that it is made up/fake?

20: Why do you think claiming cop makes me mafia? Why do you think that I'd choose to claim at the time that I did?

21: Can you be sure that you genuinely think claiming cop like I did is scummy? Did you start with the assumption that I was a cop and then conclude that I was mafia or did you already think I was mafia and hence think of a reason why mafia would claim cop?

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

using intimidation technique to have things go his way

22: Why do you find me intimidating? What intimidation techniques am I using?

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

Are you trying to manipulate the conversation so you can regain the initiative?

23: What is 'the initiative'? When did I have it, when did I lose it, and how did I try to regain it?

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

We realize we messed up so we want the cop to reveal himself so we can kill him later?

24: Where did I mess up so badly that I needed to fake claim cop? Where did I mess up at all?

25: Why do you think that if I wanted to expose a PR that I'd choose to expose the cop instead of the seer or doctor? Why do you think I'd choose to sacrifice myself to expose a PR?

That is a lot of questions lol. This could be your chance to surprise me.

mutantdevle · 2019-05-12 19:24:47

Mostly NorwegianboyEE but there are some smaller details that I think others could benefit from too:

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

Please don't give me another huge reply with 50 quote lines.

Too bad.

Before I address the points you've made, I would like to say that my opinion of you has drastically improved. Whilst I still have many criticisms of you, the very fact that instead of justifying your reads list you have admitted mistake makes me think you are town.

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

Peace’s claim then seems a little suspicious. Perhaps the mafia saw this situation and decided to exploit it?

I don't think so. peace definitely has the power to surprise us but I don't think he would have made a risky decision like that. If it was part of a team decision, I'm 90% sure a different mafia member would carry it out.

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

10: Is there anything other than this that you think makes diff look scummy?

So just to clarify, the only criticisms that you have of diff is that I like a lot of what he posts? Do you think that as mafia I'd so obviously associate myself with a scum buddy? How do you feel about the fact that, given the choice between tofuuJoe and GreenyMix (the slot that diff replaced), I chose GreenyMix as my preference for the day 1 lynch? I'm almost certain GreenyMix would have been lynched day 1 had diff not replaced them and their lynch was going through with basically no resistance (part of the reason why I town read the slot).

Who do you currently think my mafia buddies are?

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

A: Your overly confrontational attitude seems very scummy to me. I’m going to be completely honest, most of the game i’ve felt like you’ve only attempted to pick apart people’s post to the miniscule detail because you are attempting to hide the fact that you are mafia and look good in the eyes of the town. The use of those pictures and videos you’ve been posting are absolutely ridiculous and proves even more your overly aggressive playstyle whenever confronted with criticism. If you really aren’t scum, then why are you so verbally violent? You could have replied to me by logically dismantling the argument, yet it’s like you lose your cool sometimes and turn into this caricature of yourself.

I don't consider myself overly confrontational. I picked apart your reads list and voted you to add pressure. I then gave you an opportunity to reply. I never mentioned you in any negative way from then on nor did I ever try and convince anyone else to vote for you. My vote was a request for information from you. All you had to do was reply to either appease or confirm my suspicions of you. Failing to respond to that and instead attacking me rather than defending yourself was never going to appease that. You just looked like a mafia member who knew they couldn't justify any of what they said so chose to lash out instead.

As for the picture, it was a joke. You seem to think that it was some great offence that I meant towards you. No. It was a joke. Because I thought that the idea of thinking I'm mafia for my claim was ludicrous. I'm honestly surprised I've received so many votes for it.

If you think that the way to identify mafia is to simply look at those who are being more 'verbally violent' or hostile, then I don't have any faith in any reads you can make. Being forward and aggressive is not a scum trait. My initial vote and post on you needed to be hostile. When you're hostile towards people it panics them. It means they're more likely to make mistakes. More likely to slip up and give greater indication that they are mafia. If you were to question someone in a more relaxed way and made it clear to them that their answers have no consequences, then you're hardly going to get much out of them. (I mean, a softer approach is sometimes better but I didn't view it as so in this case). From there, all my aggression towards you has been entirely motivated by your lack of desire to answer me or acknowledge my points against you. I find it ironic that you say I've turned hostile when confronted with criticism because that's exactly what you've done towards me ever since I voted you.

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

13: Why do you think that disagreeing on who had done townie things so far in the game automatically makes me scum?
A: I don’t understand your question. Context?

If I say A B and C are town and you say that X Y Z is town then why does it automatically make me scum just because I have a different opinion to you?

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

14: When did I try to make people lynch innocents? In what way was it obvious?
A: I’ve already said why i find you suspicious in answer 11. Also at that time when i wrote this, your lynch list had many people i did not particularly suspect.

I didn't ask you why you find me suspicious. I was asking about where you thought I was trying to lynch innocents. In my list I never told anyone else to vote for those people, I just gave a list of the people I'd feel comfortable voting. At no point was I ever advocating lynching random innocent people. You just twisted my words in your reads list to fit your idea that I am scum. To be honest, I think you know really that I'm not mafia. But that you have it in your head that I am and you don't have anything else to go on if I'm not. I don't understand why you'd vote for Slabdrill when your whole theory on who the scum team are solely relied on me being scum.

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

But honestly, your cop claim throws all that crap i wrote earlier under the water. I do not understand why you would reveal that you supposedly are the “cop” on day 2 when you haven’t even found a single mafia or let alone the serial killer. It just seems like such an uncharacteristic move for you to choose this strategy if you really were a cop. Let alone blow up like that when i confronted you about it.

I said why I'm claiming in my post that I claimed. Or did you not actually read it? Tbh, it would explain a lot if you stopped reading my post at the part where I said I was the cop.

I claimed because I don't believe I would live until day 3 unless I was protected by the doctor. Claiming is the only way to guarantee that I get that protection.
I claimed at the moment I did because that was the moment I remembered that the mafia has a role cop. Since they didn't decide to attack me or role block me night 1, I'm almost certain the investigated me.
As a result, I believe that the mafia already knew I was the cop. I also think that they would have picked up on my hints that Kirby is town. As a result, by not claiming, the only people I'm keeping in the dark are the rest of the town and the SK. Giving the town information that the mafia has is worth also giving the information to the SK especially when in the process it increases my chance of survival.

And don't get how you can you say this is 'uncharacteristic' for me when you very clearly don't know my character.

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

16: What were my "ha gotcha" attempts? Where do I try to lynch innocents over a spelling mistake/minor revelations? I don't believe that either of these things happened.
A: Read answer 11.

Answer 11 doesn't answer my question. I want you to point out to me where I have A) Done something to the effect of "ha, gotcha!" and B) Tried to lynch someone over a spelling mistake. Because neither of those things happened. I think you seriously need to re-read my posts because I don't understand how you can be misrepresenting me this much.

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

17: Do you really think that this theory is plausible in any way whatsoever? Do you think that I would be less active if I was a mafia power role?
A: Why not? It’s up to the group of mafia to decide what strategy they’ll be doing for the game. Is it really that implausible?

Why not? Because it's ridiculous. It's 100% a stab in the dark. In fact, it's not even a stab. That would suggest your theory has weight. Your theory is more like a pinprick. You think I'm specifically the goon because I'm vocal? What the actual hell. There is no evidence or weight or plausibility to that whatsoever. No one here for a second is willing to entertain that. Just ask them. People might think I'm mafia. Maybe they think I am the goon. But they certainly don't think that because I'm vocal of all things. I was vocal in the previous game. I was a mafia PR there. But guess what? I was vocal in every single game of mafia I've played on this forum and I'm vocal in every single game I've played on mafiascum (though comparatively, I'm fairly quiet there because my posts here look like mere bricks compared to the walls that get posted on mafiascum). Me being vocal does not have anything to do with my role. It's my playstyle. You're clutching at straws to suggest otherwise. If you ever play a game where I'm not talking all that much, then that would be your cue to analyse how much I'm talking. Y'know, I had only skim read your post before I wrote that sentence at the start of this post and reminding myself that you present yourself as genuinely believing this kind of stupid-logic theory puts me further towards revoking it.

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

20: Why do you think claiming cop makes me mafia? Why do you think that I'd choose to claim at the time that I did?
A: Already answered in answer 14.

14 doesn't answer the 2nd part of 20. There is no reason I'd claim at the time I did if I was mafia. Yes, mafia cop if they were about to be lynched. That would then expose the real cop and give them something out of their death. But I was not being lynched. I had no pressure on me. I had no reason to panic and claim a role. My claim was unprovoked. I actively decided to claim rather than being forced to. And I've already explained why there is virtually no benefit to mafia doing that whatsoever.

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

21: Can you be sure that you genuinely think claiming cop like I did is scummy? Did you start with the assumption that I was a cop and then conclude that I was mafia or did you already think I was mafia and hence think of a reason why mafia would claim cop?
A: It doesn’t really matter. What’s important is to stop the mafia, and the way i see it. This “cop reveal” could be an attempt by the mafia to put their mafia cop on a pedestal. The way you demand absolute trust from the town without actually having any information other than Kirby being townie is ludicrous. I’m starting to wonder if you’re just a bad townie cop which haven’t really thought this through. You know the serial killer is going to target you now right? Why would you be so stupid? You’re obviously going to die or kill the doctor in the next night. And you haven’t even found the serial killer yet.

It certainly does matter. If you already thought I was mafia, you're not going to see my claim as townie. As a result, you invent reasons for why my claim is scummy. It's called confirmation bias and, in my opinion, you're either heavily subjective to that right now or your mafia. I don't see an in between.

And I'm not a bad cop. It's entirely you who hasn't thought this through, not me. First of all, I can't catch the SK. If I investigate the SK I get the result "nothing" which is the same result I'd get if I'm roleblocked. Next, obviously the SK is going to want me dead now. That's why I want the doctor to protect me. The doctor doesn't die when they protect people from the SK, only the roleblockers die if they try to block the SK. Finally, you don't need a guilty to claim as a cop. Telling people who is innocent is almost as valuable. It narrows the lynch pool and it gives people confirmed town status. When you know someone is town, you don't have to analyse their every word and you know that all of their opinions come from a place of good intent.

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

Having the “initiative” is quite simply, staying at the top of the game, having public opinion on your side, making your opponent’s arguments seem flawed and weak. Etc… Something you lost when you posted that silly picture and “It’s time for you to die” or whatever it said. So i’m referring to what i perceive as you trying to make us forget about the agressive incident and returning to your usual argumentative self.

I'm not making your arguments seem flawed and weak. A lot of them just are flawed and weak. Anyone who can't see that just doesn't want to. And you even kind of proved it yourself when you admitted the amount of mistakes you made in your reads list. I would also say that I never had the initiative. It's not like I could say "Hey, go lynch that person!" and everyone will abide. And my silly picture was not an 'aggressive' incident. It was just a silly picture. You're the only one who sees this great aggression in me because most of what I've been saying in my most recent posts has been directed at you.

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

“If Mutantdevle is fake claiming cop, then the real cop should just speak up!” Assuming Kirby and you are the mafia, this could be an attempt by you two to make the real cop speak up so the mafia can nightkill him. I’m assuming this desperate plan would form from a real fear that you, Mutantdevle would be lynched by the end of the day, so they’d try to make some good from it.

Okay, but why would I claim cop in the first place? I wasn't at any risk of being lynched back when I claimed. Any mafia member would try to make some good from their death by fake claiming a PR. You'd be stupid not to. But I had nothing to 'make good' from. Mafia!me was already in a good position. You're suggesting that either I was motivated to claim by something that happened after my claim (being voted for) or that I randomly decided to throw away my good relation with the town for the sake of exposing not even the strongest PR (You can't fake claim a PR and live - either you die or the real PR dies and then you die).

So my question remains, where did I mess up to the point that I was likely to die and hence decided to fake claim cop?

Everyone read the rest of this please:

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

A: If you are the mafia cop, it would make more sense to fake claim being a regular cop rather than the seer. Because the seer is more powerful than your own mafia role equivalent. I believe you chose this course of action because you wanted to prove you were a “cop” to the town, of course this would be more trustworthy than claiming to be a seer and failing to understand what the power role is of people that “ask” to be investigated. I don’t think you planned on sacrificing yourself at all, i think you planned for everyone to believe your story without anyone questioning it whatsoever.

Okay, this has convinced me that you are town. I don't think mafia!you would think to be this ignorant to their own factions' roles.

It makes no sense at all for a mafia cop to fake claim cop.

As a cop, I can investigate people and learn their alignment. The seer investigates people and learns their role. The mafia role cop investigates people and learns their role. Seer and mafia role cop are exactly the same. By your own argument, it would make more sense for me to claim seer.

And I never said I was going to sacrifice myself. Please stop misrepresenting me. Why would I ask for the doctor's protection if I was 'sacrificing' myself? I want to stay alive for as many nights as I can to get as many results as I can.

Finally, you said earlier that you still believe your theory that I'm the mafia goon. So doesn't that kinda debunks your theory here that I'm the mafia cop? You've contradicted yourself. This is what I mean when I say your arguments are flawed an weak. I think that your best course of action from here is to reevaluate your reads.

After all that though, I'm glad that I can conclude you're town - figuring out your alignment is exactly what I wanted to do when I voted for you.

!unvote

mutantdevle · 2019-05-12 19:25:24

peace wrote:

ugh getting tired of walls of text by muttandevle sorry mutant but:
!Unvote
!lynch mutantdevle

peace wrote:

alos have to add that the doc is forced now to protect mutant IF hes the real cop and if the doc knows who is the see rhe coudlnt protect him becuase wwe woudl lsoe cop

Peace, unvote me please.

mutantdevle · 2019-05-12 20:30:27

Slabdrill wrote:

mutantdevle wrote:
It makes no sense at all for a mafia cop to fake claim cop.
As a cop, I can investigate people and learn their alignment. The seer investigates people and learns their role. The mafia role cop investigates people and learns their role. Seer and mafia role cop are exactly the same. By your own argument, it would make more sense for me to claim seer.
Quote from mafia cop rolecard: "Possible results: Role/Vanila/Nothing"

Oops, my mistake. Sorry for criticising you on that front Norweiganboy

But now I dont know whether I should be town reading him... :/

Okay, I've thought about it, and my view on Norweiganboy being town is no longer locked. However, his initial response to my questions satisfied me enough to want my vote elsewhere for now. Unless his next response is terrible that is.

mutantdevle · 2019-05-12 22:42:29

peace wrote:

mutant how can you be sure role cop checke dyou and not one of the other 12 people?

I tend to get targetted by those kinds of things on EE mafia.

We're nearing the end of the day so we need to get a lynch going soon.

I'm leaning more towards Onjit, Luka or toffuJoe but if anyone has a case to make on anyone then now is the time to do it.

mutantdevle · 2019-05-12 22:52:04

Confirmed Town:
- Kirby

I'm fairly confident are town:
-Zumza
-Different55

Kinda liking:
- mrjawapa
- NorwegianboyEE
- Slabdrill

I'm suspicious of but would prefer to investigate further before seriously considering:
- peace
- 2B55B5G TNG

People I'd vote for without much convincing:
- Onjit
- Luka504
- ILikeTofuuJoe

mutantdevle · 2019-05-12 23:54:15

Only the last 2 paragraphs of this post are somewhat relevant to everyone

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

Mafia buddies: Right now i’m suspecting Kirby mainly. I’m also worried about certain suspicions you and Different55 are having on Luka504.
Also i don’t think inactivity is a foolproof defense. Mafia members can be afk too.

I more meant that I was super willing to see through a lynch on Diff's slot. It wasn't a defence in that GreenyMix was inactive, it was an attempt to highlight that I didn't need to risk a mafia buddy like that. As a general rule, if the only scummy thing that someone has done is be associated with someone else, you probably shouldn't be scum reading them. I can understand the point of view that me and Kirby could be a team, but I don't think Diff should be dragged into it.

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

This is going to sound like a real **** excuse. But the reason i didn’t answer your huge questionnaire immediately is that i have ADHD, and this means commitment issues. I thought about answers to your questions in my head all day, but the thought of spending half an hour to sit down and manage all of my thoughts into textual form made me nauseous. So i didn’t reply at all because of the scale of your questions, then you started adding ON and ON with even more questions hidden in long analysis essays that would require from me: long-winded answers. So i eventually said **** it and just plainly asked you to simplify the questions for me and put them in a plain and easy to read form. That’s how i managed to sit down and reply to that huge mess of questions. Let me add that i don’t have problems with long texts as long as i am entertained by what i am reading, but yeah. Putting it bluntly, some of your questions were a real bore to analyze and answer. I also can get too obsessive sometimes, or impulsive, i’ll admit it. But enough about the personal problems. I just want you to know where my behaviour comes from. So if my reply takes forever, consider whether you are making it easy for the person you are trying to extract information from.

No problem dude, I understand. I'll keep this in mind for the rest of this game and any future ones. I'll try not to overload you with too much at once and maybe try to make my messages a little more entertaining

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

It honestly was a hateful thing to do. And the fact that you are surprised about people voting on you for it is making me even more surprised. I know you simply tried to be funny, but certain things that people believe is just a “joke” can seriously damage other people. You made yourself look like a bully.

Sorry man, I didn't realise I hurt you beyond the boundaries of the game. I didn't even think that the image was anywhere close to being offensive. Perhaps the intent of it wasn't clear enough? The image was simply representing the phrase "digging your own grave", in other words, I intended it as nothing more than just a statement that I thought you were making things worse for yourself by voting for me. The message "time for you to die" was not meant in any literal or offensive way, it was intended as a jokey way of saying "it's time for you to be lynched in the game". I'm sorry if I seriously damaged or hurt you in any way as that was not the purpose of that, or any other, post.

Also, I don't think that anyone is voting me over that image. I was under the impression that both Onjit and Luka are voting for me because they both don't believe my claim and peace is voting for me because... well he's peace.

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

Ok so, it’s… just natural i suppose? I have a suspicion list… You have a lynching list. I know i’m town, we completely disagree on who we should lynch… Hey, maybe this guy is the mafia?

Yeah I get the logic. We clearly don't have the same mindset so it's logical to conclude that it could be because we have different alignments. However, I'd like to just warn against the premise. Thinking someone is mafia because they disagree with you is a very dangerous thing to do. Sometimes, disagreement can be a sign of a mafia. But more often than not it simply comes from a difference in playstyle.

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

And my goal isn’t to lynch 1 single mafia. It’s to identify them all. What’s better? To lynch 1 mafia, then get night killed with no more information. Or logically deduce who the other mafia are, from the one identified mafia?

Yeah of course. But if you have 2 people that you think are more directly related to each other it's always best to lynch one of them, or at least heavily push one of them, to see how the other reacts. That's what gives more weight to your theory. And the problem is, you need one of them to flip to make people believe your theory. If you think 2 people are mafia together and 1 person has already flipped as mafia then people are more likely to agree with you that the second person might be mafia.

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

This leads me to another point of concern however, what’s going to stop the mafia roleblocker from simply blocking your investigation on every single turn? Are you sure you really thought this move through? Because i’m having increasing doubts the more i think about it. What’s going to happen, assuming your role is real. Is that the doctor will protect you, and the mafia roleblocker will block you on every turn. How is this supposed to help the town? You’ve basically made yourself useless, instead of taking a minor gamble of staying hidden and investigating as much as possible. You’ve made yourself aware to the mafia roleblocker presence and completely uselessified yourself. Meanwhile the mafia is going to kill like never before, not having to worry about you even exposing them. Sooner or later they’ll kill the doctor and you’ll be easy prey. Was this your great plan? Like i’ve said before, either you are a complete failure of a cop. Or you are fake claiming.

I think what you need to understand is that I thought that the mafia role cop received the result of people's exact roles: https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Role_Cop. The version of role cop that Railmat is using in this game is more commonly (and less confusingly) referred to as a vanilla cop. As a result, I thought that a role that powerful was guaranteed to be used on me. Hence, I thought the mafia already knew my role. And if they knew my role, they were either going to kill me or keep roleblocking me anyway. However, that's not the case, and it's since been explained to me that the mafia role cop only gets the result of "vanilla" or "PR". So I'm willing to bet that the mafia still knew that I was a PR, they just didn't know which one.

If I had realised exactly how the mafia cop worked I'm not so sure I would have claimed. However, I still think that having done so that it was the right thing to do. I'm very sure that my chances of being killed during night 2 would have been really high and, by claiming, that has been majorly reduced. I doubt the mafia would have let me live after seeing I'm a PR (assuming they'd still investigated me) even if they didn't know I was specifically the cop. Another more town-wide benefit is that the mafia roleblocker now has to focus on me which would allow our potential seer to get a result ever night. Additionally, on the odd chance that our roleblocker blocks their roleblocker, I could still get a result. It would also give our role blocker a result as they'd know the person they blocked that night is the mafia roleblocker. Additionally, the doctor could still prevent a kill. There's no guarantee that the doctor is on me since not everyone believes my claim. As a result, the mafia may still try to kill me which would then be prevented by the doctor. Alternatively, the doctor could gamble under the assumption that the mafia won't attack me because they think I'm protected and hence stop someone else from being killed. Besides, I think it's a handy thing to have Kirby confirmed as town. He's definitely someone who is harder to sort but has good contributions. Y'all now don't need to worry about figuring him out and can know that everything he says is motivated by a town alignment. Finally, if we kill the mafia roleblocker then I become very useful again. So there's still a lot of benefits to us having me claimed. I don't really appreciate being called a failure of a cop. If the mafia role worked like I thought it did then claiming today was most definitely the right thing to do. Even though it doesn't, it's still pretty similar which means that I still think it is better that I'm claimed.

Official Everybody Edits Forums

#26 2019-05-11 14:15:31

Re: Mafia 24 [Crybaby wins]

#27 2019-05-11 14:55:28

Re: Mafia 24 [Crybaby wins]

#28 2019-05-11 21:44:30

Re: Mafia 24 [Crybaby wins]

#29 2019-05-11 22:36:58

Re: Mafia 24 [Crybaby wins]

#30 2019-05-11 22:50:06

Re: Mafia 24 [Crybaby wins]

I'm the cop.

#31 2019-05-11 23:24:48

Re: Mafia 24 [Crybaby wins]

#32 2019-05-11 23:34:03

Re: Mafia 24 [Crybaby wins]

#33 2019-05-11 23:35:23

Re: Mafia 24 [Crybaby wins]

#34 2019-05-12 09:54:44

Re: Mafia 24 [Crybaby wins]

#35 2019-05-12 10:21:08

Re: Mafia 24 [Crybaby wins]

#36 2019-05-12 10:30:51

Re: Mafia 24 [Crybaby wins]

#37 2019-05-12 10:42:37

Re: Mafia 24 [Crybaby wins]

#38 2019-05-12 11:04:24

Re: Mafia 24 [Crybaby wins]

#39 2019-05-12 11:05:10

Re: Mafia 24 [Crybaby wins]

#40 2019-05-12 11:07:27

Re: Mafia 24 [Crybaby wins]

#41 2019-05-12 11:18:50

Re: Mafia 24 [Crybaby wins]

#42 2019-05-12 12:21:53

Re: Mafia 24 [Crybaby wins]

People who doubt my claim / suspect me as mafia

#43 2019-05-12 12:50:10

Re: Mafia 24 [Crybaby wins]

#44 2019-05-12 13:54:47

Re: Mafia 24 [Crybaby wins]

#45 2019-05-12 19:24:47

Re: Mafia 24 [Crybaby wins]

Mostly NorwegianboyEE but there are some smaller details that I think others could benefit from too:

Everyone read the rest of this please:

#46 2019-05-12 19:25:24

Re: Mafia 24 [Crybaby wins]

#47 2019-05-12 20:30:27

Re: Mafia 24 [Crybaby wins]

#48 2019-05-12 22:42:29

Re: Mafia 24 [Crybaby wins]

#49 2019-05-12 22:52:04

Re: Mafia 24 [Crybaby wins]

#50 2019-05-12 23:54:15

Re: Mafia 24 [Crybaby wins]

Only the last 2 paragraphs of this post are somewhat relevant to everyone

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