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Onjit

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Mafia 22 [Loaf and Sangas Win]

Hi! Welcome to Mafia 22!

Please read the rules

1. Respect everyone, it's just a game, don't be a jerk.
2. Do not gamethrow. Play your role to win even if it seems dire, you never know what might happen.
3. Only discuss the game in this thread, or threads I assign to you.
4. Dead men tell no tales. Please use the graveyard thread if you have been eliminated.
5. Make all night actions via PM to me.
6. Don't use the mod text color please.
7. Try to post at least once every 24 hours.
8. Days will last 72 hours, or until a majority is reached, nights will last 24 hours.
9. If you break the rules I will be rather ornery.
10. Have fun!

Roles

Snags
3 of the 4 following roles are in the game.

▼Chipolata

You are the Chipolata.

The classic snag for a sausage sizzle.

You are aligned with the Snags. Your teammates are X and Y. You can talk with them here: <link>.

Each night, you may !kill another player, eliminating them from the game. If you are eliminated from the game, you may choose another member of your faction to give your role to, replacing their own role.

Your team will win when the Snags have a majority of the population.

▼Devon

You are the Devon.

Kind of a joke really, could hardly it a snag at all. But we’ll use that to our advantage…

You are aligned with the Snags. Your teammates are X and Y. You can talk with them here: <link>.

You appear to all searches to be a member of the Sanga faction.

Each night, you may choose a player and attempt to learn what their role is.

Your team will win when the Snags have a majority of the population.

▼Kransky

You are the Kransky.

A nice and thick snag that’s juicy and full of flavour.

You are aligned with the Snags. Your teammates are X and Y. You can talk with them here: <link>.

Each night you may choose a player and prevent them from making their action

Your team will win when the Snags have a majority of the population.

▼Soybean

You are the Soybean.

Not the most appealing, but it’s nice to have an extra option for those that want it.

You are aligned with the Snags. Your teammates are X and Y. You can talk with them here: <link>.

At the beginning of the game, you will be told all unassigned roles, allowing you to more confidently assume a false identity.

Each night, choose a player and send them a private message (via me)

Your team will win when the Snags have a majority of the population.

Sangas
5 of the 7 following roles are in the game.

▼Barbie

You are the Barbie.

Too hot to handle, people will only make that mistake once.

You are aligned with the Sangas.

Once during the game, at night, you may !kill another player.

Your faction wins if all snags are eliminated.

▼Tongs

You are the Tongs.

Snip snip, my dude.

You are aligned with the Sangas.

Twice during the game, at night, you may choose a player and stop them from nightkilling

Your faction wins if all snags are eliminated.

▼Onion

You are the Onion.

FROM: [email protected]: IMPORTANT RE: RE: RE: Onion must now go UNDER snag.

You are aligned with the Sangas.

Twice during the game, at night, you may prevent another player from performing their ability.

Your faction wins if all snags are eliminated.

▼Napkin

You are the Napkin.

Nobody likes greasy hands.

You are aligned with the Sangas.

Every night you may choose a player and protect them from being nightkilled. If the player you choose is targeted, you are killed instead.

Your faction wins if all snags are eliminated.

▼Tomato Sauce

You are the Tomato Sauce.

The classic sauce for a quality snagsanga.

You are aligned with the Sangas.

Every night you may choose another player and attempt to discover if they used an action.

Your faction wins if all snags are eliminated.

▼Barbecue Sauce

You are the Barbecue Sauce.

A bit of sweetness, a bit if smoky flavour.

You are aligned with the Sangas.

Every night you may choose another player and attempt to know any players that visited them.

Your faction wins if all snags are eliminated.

▼Mustard

You are the Mustard.

Fancy snag sauce.

You are aligned with the Sangas.

Every night, you may choose another player and attempt to discover which faction they are aligned with.

Your faction wins if all snags are eliminated.

Loaf
All 3 of the following roles are in the game.

▼White Bread

You are the White Bread.
What is a cheap snag without a slice of cheap bread?

You are a member of the Loaf. Your teammates are A and B. You may talk with them here: <link>

Your faction wins if all Loaf member are alive at the end of the game (regardless of what team wins) or the Loaf has a majority of the total players.

Each night, choose a player and attempt to see their role card.

----
Upon the death of one of your team mates, you will be given an additional ability (your choice between you and your teammate):
  - The ability to transfer a player’s actions to different player (at night)
  - The ability to block a player's actions (at night)

▼Sourdough

You are the Sourdough.
Fancy bread! Where's the avocado?

You are a member of the Loaf. Your teammates are A and B. You may talk with them here: <link>

Your faction wins if all Loaf member are alive at the end of the game (regardless of what team wins) or the Loaf has a majority of the total players.

Each night, choose a member of your faction (you can choose yourself) and prevent any visitors' actions from working (including nightkills)

----
Upon the death of one of your team mates, you will be given an additional ability (your choice between you and your teammate):
  - The ability to transfer a player’s actions to different player (at night)
  - The ability to block a player’s actions (at night)

▼Garlic Bread

You are the Garlic Bread.
The only thing you should eat garlic bread with... is even more garlic bread!

You are a member of the Loaf. Your teammates are A and B. You may talk with them here: <link>

Your faction wins if all Loaf member are alive at the end of the game (regardless of what team wins) or the Loaf has a majority of the total players.

Each night, choose a player and send them a private message (via me)

----
Upon the death of one of your team mates, you will be given an additional ability (your choice between you and your teammate):
  - The ability to transfer a player’s actions to different player (at night)
  - The ability to block a player’s actions (at night)

Remaining Players (Randomised)

Zumza
2B55B5G TNG
TaskManager
MrJawapa
Freckleface
Kirby

Graveyard

NorwegianBoyEE [Tongs] - Killed Night 1
Schlog [???] - Replaced by Anatoly due to inactivity
Crybaby [Barbie] - Lynched Day 2
Mutantdevle [Devon] - Lynched Day 3
Anatoly [Soybean] - Lynched Day 4
Different55 [Sourdough] - Killed Night 4

---

:.|:;

mutantdevle

Moderation Team

From: Hell

Joined: 2015-03-31

Posts: 3,848

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Re: Mafia 22 [Loaf and Sangas Win]

Who is the noob

Everyone but me

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mutantdevle

Moderation Team

From: Hell

Joined: 2015-03-31

Posts: 3,848

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Re: Mafia 22 [Loaf and Sangas Win]

!Endday

What is your motivation in wanting to end the day without lynching anyone?

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mutantdevle

Moderation Team

From: Hell

Joined: 2015-03-31

Posts: 3,848

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Re: Mafia 22 [Loaf and Sangas Win]

Lynching today is very advisable, (statistically better as diff has said).

I think it's best that instead of just saying this, I should instead prove why.

First of all, we have to understand the sentiment that in mafia you should always be aiming to keep the number of players at an odd number. The first reason for this is that it is harder to achieve a lynch with an even number of players. 6 is the majority needed to lynch with 11 players. If only 1 person dies (night kill) then that's 10 players. 5 votes would be half the votes. Half is not a majority. So the vote requirement would still be 6. 6 votes on the same person is harder to achieve with 10 people than 5 votes is to achieve with 9. It's simply fewer people needed to agree. So by not lynching today, we increase the chances that we are unable to make a decision or lynch tomorrow. 

Secondly, In order for the mafia to win, they need to gain majority. In order for this to occur, 3 townies (or people not in the mafia faction) must be lynched at any point in the game. If all 3 townies are lynched in a row then they win on day 3. If 1 mafia is lynched in between, they win on day 4. If 2 mafia are lynched, they'd win on day 5. But here's the thing, the mafia still (technically) wins if they make up exactly half of the people alive. (eg. 3 mafias vs 3 non-mafia). Why? Because there is (technically) nothing stopping them from winning. Or at least, there is a very low chance of stopping them from winning. With an even number of people, half of which are mafia, you'd need at least 1 mafia to join the wagon in order to get a mafia member lynched. If they don't join the wagon, you simply can't kill them. The only way to counter this is to both vig kill a member of the mafia AND prevent their kill in the same night. Otherwise, you'd have to kill 1 mafia member OR block their kill every single night thereafter to achieve a draw at best. These unlikely odds of survival can be prevented entirely if we never have an even number of players. And due to mafia being able to win with an even number of players, whenever we no lynch whilst on an odd number of players, it still counts as 1/3 townies they need to lynch in order to win. The only time we should no lynch is if we are on an even number of players because we don't lose anything by not lynching.

So in conclusion, no lynching with an odd number of players still counts as having lynched someone but with the extra negatives of giving us less information to base our next vote on whilst also making it functionally harder to achieve the lynch.

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mutantdevle

Moderation Team

From: Hell

Joined: 2015-03-31

Posts: 3,848

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Re: Mafia 22 [Loaf and Sangas Win]

Personally, I think that, based on past EE mafia games, we should be looking to lynch players that we don't think will be very active on day 1. (And on days where we can't decide on who to lynch, it should default to inactive people). The simple reason for this is that if people aren't talking and giving their opinions then there isn't much we can do to figure out what alignment they are.

As such, my current suggestions for the day 1 lynch are:

TaskManager (Yet to post) > Schlog (1 post of little substance and I doubt they'd be too active) > Freckleface (1 post of little substance) > Crybaby (1 post of little substance but they are generally more active on the forums) > MrJawapa (1 post but has substance).

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mutantdevle

Moderation Team

From: Hell

Joined: 2015-03-31

Posts: 3,848

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Re: Mafia 22 [Loaf and Sangas Win]

I'd also like other people to make a list on who they'd prefer to lynch based on the posts so far (however low content the posts so far have been).

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mutantdevle

Moderation Team

From: Hell

Joined: 2015-03-31

Posts: 3,848

Website

Re: Mafia 22 [Loaf and Sangas Win]

Everyone who decided it was a good idea to end the day early, hence robbing us of time to talk and get more content out of people, is scummy. And I suspect there is definitely multiple scum among those who voted for that as there is 0 town motivation behind wanting us to have less time to talk. If y'all want to stupidly make the case for a no lynch then, by all means, argue for that. But there is no reason to end the day early. Just let the time run out. Let us at least have to time to talk about our options. Because once all the time in the day is over, there is a no lynch anyway. There is no need to take away the time we have.

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mutantdevle

Moderation Team

From: Hell

Joined: 2015-03-31

Posts: 3,848

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Re: Mafia 22 [Loaf and Sangas Win]

!lynch mrjawapa

Yes, lets lynch people based on **** posts.

I don't think you understand how this game works at all. How do you honestly expect to understand people's alignments if they don't give their opinions on other people's posts? Having people give their opinions on basically nothing can be very telling. If person A only has 1 post consisting of nothing, and person B says that person A is town. Then if person B later flips as mafia, then that gives us something to work on in regard to figuring out person A's alignment. Furthermore, **** can also give us information. If someone is only ****, then that tells us they don't really care about figuring out people's alignments.

D1 lynch is stupid. It's completely random. Wait until D2, where someone should have information. Plus, the first person to toss a random vote gets tagged as scum.

A day 1 lynch is not completely random simply because the mafia know who the other mafia are. As a result, they are less likely to vote for someone who is mafia. Alternatively, they are far more likely to instantly jump on the wagon of someone who is town and get them lynched with relative ease. Day 1 lynches are not stupid. They give us information. They tells us the alignment of the player who is killed. There is a chance we lynch scum which we need to do to actually win the game. Alternatively, they could be town. If they are town, we can then look at who was and wasn't on the wagon and question them. What reason did they have to be on this wagon? We can also question the people who didn't vote for them. Did someone seem really against the wagon for no reason at all?

We're now on day 2 and, as a collective, we have nothing new to work with. Do you honestly expect people to claim their roles and tell us what they know? Do you really think that information is going to at all be helpful? I very much doubt it. No one gave their opinion on norwegianboy. So we can't criticise or praise anyone for their thoughts on his alignment. But when you have a wagon to lynch someone, you can. Because people are forced to give their opinions, at the very least through the form of a vote.

And as for being accused of being scum for throwing in the first random vote - well that would get the conversation started, wouldn't it? From there, you can ask: who agrees? why do you think they are scum for making the first vote? was the vote truly random? Etc. Besides, on sites dedicated to mafia, almost everyone's first post is a random vote. And you can sure as hell bet they lynch on day 1.

Where's Kirby, Diff, the dude with numbers, norwegianboy, and zumza? They've all posted.

You really shouldn't criticise someone without properly reading their post... smh. They were my suggestions for who to lynch based on activity alone... I didn't include anyone else because I wasn't suggesting anyone else... Do you want me to give my opinion on everyone else? Because I can do if you want but that wasn't the point of my post. And wanting that from me is very hypocritical of you since you criticised me for asking others to do the same thing.

I'm voting for you jawapa because, despite being one of the few players to involve yourself in discussion, nothing you've said seems to have any interest in solving the game. You don't seem to care about working out people's alignments and your actions seem motivated in hindering discussion. You've said that you don't want people giving their opinions on each other (which is needed to work out people's alignments) and you partook in a vote that prevented discussion time.

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mutantdevle

Moderation Team

From: Hell

Joined: 2015-03-31

Posts: 3,848

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Re: Mafia 22 [Loaf and Sangas Win]

Maybe we still don’t want to lynch anyone today. If only one person is killed in N2, then we have an odd number of people.

If you weren't new to the game I'd be voting for you right now for this suggestion alone. If we don't lynch people, how do you expect us to kill the mafia? Instead, I think that the vig should shoot tonight. 1 lynch, +2 deaths in the night gives us an odd amount of players again.

I'd like to remind everyone that, thanks to not lynching yesterday, we are at a disadvantage. The mafia only needs to not be lynched 3 days in the game. We have handed them a free 1/3 of those whilst sacrificing our chance to actually kill one of them. If the next 2 lynches do not hit mafia then we lose the game.

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mutantdevle

Moderation Team

From: Hell

Joined: 2015-03-31

Posts: 3,848

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Re: Mafia 22 [Loaf and Sangas Win]

What makes freckle a better lynch than jawapa?

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mutantdevle

Moderation Team

From: Hell

Joined: 2015-03-31

Posts: 3,848

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Re: Mafia 22 [Loaf and Sangas Win]

It's D1, there is no info. Wait until D2, where a power role should have some kind of info.

There's no info? So we make the damn info... by talking to each other... Every word that everyone says is motivated by their alignment. So the more that people say, the more opportunity we have to figure out WHY they would say that. WHY do they have that viewpoint. What is their motivation? If I accuse X of being mafia, how do they react? What does that tell us about their motives? ETC.

Congrats jawapa, it's day 2. No power roles have claimed because their information either isn't useful or they don't want to risk being killed by the mafia for their role. What now? Do we not lynch again today and wait until day 3 for power roles to give us information? No. You can't rely on power roles to solve the game for you. We need to lynch mafia in order to win the game and that involves risking lynching townies.

I think this viewpoint again shows your lack of willingness to solve the game. In fact, I would even suspect that your desire to have people admit their roles to give us information is a method of learning what roles people are to better inform who you kill at night as a mafia player.

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mutantdevle

Moderation Team

From: Hell

Joined: 2015-03-31

Posts: 3,848

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Re: Mafia 22 [Loaf and Sangas Win]

▼Post 1

I'm gonna need someone to cite games where a D1 lynch benefited the town. I don't recall that ever happening. If it has, I imagine it was a one-off game.

On the EE forums, I doubt an example could be found. Both because of a low sample size and because EE mafia has a history of not lynching on day 1. However, if you look at any forum devoted to mafia games you will find that 99% of the time there is a lynch on day 1. The main exception is when people can't decide on WHO to lynch rather than deciding to not lynch at all. Games are balanced around the assumption that someone gets lynched every single day because its very rare that it isn't optimal to do so.

The disadvantage we have to those devoted sites is that their day phases are typically 1 or 2 weeks long. But that just shows that you're supposed to solve the game by talking and figuring out people's motives behind what they are saying. You being ignorant to that aspect for the game and partaking in efforts to give us even less time to talk is not helpful. You can claim it's because you don't want to sit through days of ****, but how are we to know that your lack of interest doesn't come from already knowing who is and isn't mafia?

▼Post 2

You had frex in your order to be lynched, and his only post was a joke. I just found it odd that you picked certain people, instead of just ranking everyone.

Dude, did you even read my post?

Personally, I think that, based on past EE mafia games, we should be looking to lynch players that we don't think will be very active

My list was of the 5 people who had only 1 or 0 posts. The point of the list was that I was suggesting we lynch someone who might not be so active in the game instead of it just being random. Lynching a townie who is unlikely to post much isn't as much of a loss as risking a lynch on someone who'd be more helpful. I then evaluated those 5 people based on the quality of their single post and/or how active I'd think they'd be given their activity on the forums as a whole. Suggesting that I should have listed everyone would be like me listing all my favorite blue objects and then you complaining I didn't include any red ones.

▼Post 3

lol what? I didn't criticize anything.

Then what was the purpose of post 34 if it wasn't a criticism?

▼Post 4

You've said that you don't want people giving their opinions on each other

Citation needed.

It's an exaggeration on my part to say you said this exactly, but "Yes, lets lynch people based on **** posts" very clearly implies that you were against my idea for people to give their opinions on who they'd prefer to be lynched despite the lack of content. Nothing bad comes from people giving their opinions on minimal content and it would have started a much needed discussion - but your first instinct was to shut that down.

▼Post 5

Would it not have **** us if we, by good chance, lynched a town D1?

No, it really wouldn't.

What we would have lost by lynching a townie:
- That person's opinion in discussion.
- Their role.
- 1/3 wrong lynches needed for the mafia to win.

What we HAVE lost by not lynching at all:
- 1/3 wrong lynches needed for the mafia to win.
- A chance to kill a member of the mafia.
- The ability to form reads/opinions on people based on their opinion of the lynched player.
- The ability to form reads/opinions based on how the person who was lynched acted in the game and responded to being voted.
- It's now harder to achieve a lynch in general due to there being an even number of players alive.

Do you not see how we've lost more by not lynching at all than we would have done by lynching a townie?

▼Post 6

To be completely fair to Freckleface, he's just as much of a candidate right now as Schlog, 25, and myself. I'm not saying that any of us are innocent. I don't know what anybody is except for myself (if I say "I'm innocent" here you probably won't believe me, understandably) but Jawapa throws up a few red flags.

I agree. Everyone on the 'end day' wagon is as guilty as each other for it. So I do expect an explanation from them. But I think you raise a very good point specifically in saying Schlog is as much of a candidate as freckleface. In my opinion, I think schlog is more deserving of being lynched than freckle. Freckle's sins are that they aren't saying much and that they joined the wagon that ended the day early. However, Schlog was also on that wagon, he also isn't very active, and furthermore, who also advocated for not lynching on day 1. That's 1 extra crime than freckle.

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mutantdevle

Moderation Team

From: Hell

Joined: 2015-03-31

Posts: 3,848

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Re: Mafia 22 [Loaf and Sangas Win]

I think it does say a lot when I merely suggest schlog without even voting for him and the votes just pile on.

Perhaps that's entirely down to schlog being yet to respond but it does make me wonder why people weren't as willing to lynch freckle.

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mutantdevle

Moderation Team

From: Hell

Joined: 2015-03-31

Posts: 3,848

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Re: Mafia 22 [Loaf and Sangas Win]

It looks like there may have been a divide between Frex and Schlog, but Frex responded, and Schlog hadn't.

2B55 was the only person on the wagon who had previously mentioned any interest in voting Schlog. Prior to that, people were very comfortable voting freckle or had no interest at all. I'm not sure where you're getting this 'divide' from.

excuse me?? the only time you mentioned him was back on d1
i started this wagon

???

I agree. Everyone on the 'end day' wagon is as guilty as each other for it. So I do expect an explanation from them. But I think you raise a very good point specifically in saying Schlog is as much of a candidate as freckleface. In my opinion, I think schlog is more deserving of being lynched than freckle. Freckle's sins are that they aren't saying much and that they joined the wagon that ended the day early. However, Schlog was also on that wagon, he also isn't very active, and furthermore, who also advocated for not lynching on day 1. That's 1 extra crime than freckle.

But it's honestly irrelevant 'who' started the wagon. The point remains the same. The wagon seemingly came out of nowhere which makes me hesitant to vote there. Though, maybe I'm expecting too much from EE mafia to expect people to express prior interest.

For the record, that's why I'm strongly town reading 2B55. He's one of the few players who is actively showing his thought process so I can see how his opinions are formed. It shows me that he has nothing to hide. Some people have criticized him for stating the obvious but I think it's a good thing that he does. It allows us to know what he's thinking. I think it would be beneficial for this game if others also offered up their random thoughts rather than merely commenting on whatever is going on at the time.

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mutantdevle

Moderation Team

From: Hell

Joined: 2015-03-31

Posts: 3,848

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Re: Mafia 22 [Loaf and Sangas Win]

Are you and Frex Loaf buddies?

What is you interest in asking this question?

Myself also did endday in D1 and agreed to not lynch randomly, but now I realized that what I did was very wrong and can let the Mafia has a higher chance to win (stating the obvious again .-.). You can say that I’m not innocent because I did endday in D1, but I’m not loaf, and not Mafia too.

Frex also admitted that he was mistaken to vote endday on day 1 so I don't really think you can hold that against him too much. On the other hand, Schlog and crybaby are yet to address why they voted to end the day and jawapa says he believes it wasn't a mistake to end the day.

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mutantdevle

Moderation Team

From: Hell

Joined: 2015-03-31

Posts: 3,848

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Re: Mafia 22 [Loaf and Sangas Win]

Go back and read. Frex started to collect votes, until he posted something. Then all the votes went to Schlog.

Please explain to me how that shows a 'divide'? That's just one thing happening then another thing happening. No divide took place.

The only basis for the wagon was Schlog's inactivity. I don't know if it's based on anything more than that, but I believe a couple maf members planned to use it to their advantage.

If the only basis for Schlog's wagon is inactivity, then why did frex not receive nearly as many votes? He was being voted for the same thing right? See, if all of the people who voted Schlog voted Frex, then I'd understand where the wagon came from. But that's not what happened. A couple of people voted Frex, then lots of people voted Schlog.

Also, if a couple of maf members are using schlog's inactivity to their advantage, then you think that schlog isn't mafia and agree with me that mafia/suspicious people voted for him?

At first I was like, oh ****, the new guy just outed his entire team. Then, I realized there were unassigned roles, so maybe this is meaningless. I don't know.

Why would you think he outed his team if he named 3 people? There's no team of 4. I also don't understand why unassigned roles would make this meanignless.

Why would he suspect him of being part of the Loaf? What makes him think he's loaf instead of town? Either he's talking out of his ****, or both of them are loaf.

I don't understand why you are criticising him for sorting people into different factions... that's kinda what we're supposed to be doing. I also find it kinda harsh that you're expecting the newbie to justify his opinions when a lot of people have barely given theirs.

I explained why I think Frex is loaf.

I don't think it's a wise idea to speculate on who is and isn't loaf at this stage in the game. I think sorting people into mafia and 'not mafia' would suffice for now.

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mutantdevle

Moderation Team

From: Hell

Joined: 2015-03-31

Posts: 3,848

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Re: Mafia 22 [Loaf and Sangas Win]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, would it not make the most sense to label loaf as town? At this point in the game, it would be stupid to work against the town.

I agree to be honest. Their best interest is to help us hunt mafia whilst not being too helpful as to not draw a night kill. The only time they'd work against us is if they have somehow communicated with the mafia to the point where they agree to help them lynch townies once their factions combined make a majority. However, in order for that to happen, they'd have to have revealed their identities to the mafia only. It's possible they could do that, but I find it very unlikely. And the worst thing we could do is treat them as a threat because that's only going to encourage them to become one.

I don't know how much time we have left in the day, but I feel like it's running out. If schlog hasn't replied by when I wake up tomorrow, hell, even if he does and I don't think what he says is good enough, I'm just going to vote there with full intent on seeing him lynched.

!unvote

I'm still suspicious of jawapa, but he's definitely not an optimal lynch right now.

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mutantdevle

Moderation Team

From: Hell

Joined: 2015-03-31

Posts: 3,848

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Re: Mafia 22 [Loaf and Sangas Win]

But wait, are the blue ones evil?

I don't consider the loaf faction to be evil. But that's entirely their decision.

Do you guys really want me to tell you my role so you can trust me?

I don't think anyone should be telling anyone else their role unless they are at L-2 or L-1.

if we make sure they don’t have the majority of people, they won’t win.

This is not the mentality to have. We can both win, we don't need to try to prevent them from winning.

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mutantdevle

Moderation Team

From: Hell

Joined: 2015-03-31

Posts: 3,848

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Re: Mafia 22 [Loaf and Sangas Win]

My take on this whole 2B55 vs Zumza argument is that crybaby is mafia.

I think that 2B55's case on Zumza had 1 good point in it at best. That being Zumza's wagon-hopping being a little hypocritical. The rest of the case just highlighted things that a lot of other people have also done and aren't considered to be that bad. So I find it kinda odd that crybaby would react to it as though he had just provide lots of examples of contradiction and wrongdoing.

especially more now that he's bringing up some very good points against you.

I'm voting for you because of the evidence that's starting to pile up against you at the moment.

This kind of portrayal of 2B55's post makes me think that crybaby is trying to frame it as much more impressive than it was with intent to try and make others agree that Zumza is scummy. In my opinion, 2B55's case is exactly what I'd expect from a noob so crybaby's praise seems unfounded.

I also think that crybaby's response to Zumza's vote was over the top. It was clearly a throw away vote designed to spark a bit of discussion. The whole response of "you think I'm mafia for defending myself?" again seems illfounded. First of all, Zumza never said he was voting crybaby for defending themself. I'd hardly call the words "excuse me" as being a 'defence', more a request for elaboration on what the hell anatoly actually meant. So to then get so defensive over something so little would suggest to me that crybaby has something to hide if they think small actions are serious attacks.

^Especially considering most of my posts in this thread are serious.

It's inevitable that someone will suspect me

I'm always going to be suspected

Things like this just further emphasises how paranoid crybaby seems to be all of a sudden. Why is it inevitable that someone would vote you? Is it because you know you're guilty and hence think people are going to be picking up on that?

I admit, honestly I was sort of riding the bandwagon. I have no real defense for that

This especially irks me. Why would you need a defence for that? No one was accusing you of being scum for riding the bandwagon. No one had even mentioned you were riding a bandwagon... This is an admission of guilt that just came out of the blue. An admission of guilt that no one else percieved except crybaby.

If the town votes to lynch either you or me tonight, then the other one is going to be suspected of being the Mafia. In the chance that we're both innocent, we're letting the Mafia have their way by turning against each other.

I think that this is the nail in the coffin for me. This basically translates to: "If Zumza is lynched and flips town, you shouldn't just lynch me next because that's what the mafia would want!". Already, crybaby is setting up a defence for the Zumza town flip that they are expecting.

!lynch Crybaby

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mutantdevle

Moderation Team

From: Hell

Joined: 2015-03-31

Posts: 3,848

Website

Re: Mafia 22 [Loaf and Sangas Win]

Inactive persons have a high potential of being mafia, as well as  people who are sketchy about what they say, people who are getting things out of context, and people who are easily steered into a certain direction.

I wouldn't say that inactive people have a high chance of being mafia, just that if there are a lot of inactive people then the mafia can easily get away with doing nothing and winning (I've won games like that before on MafiaScum). Hence, it is a good idea to lynch inactive people to discourage that kind of culture from forming.

I also don't think that people being steered in a certain direction is necessarily a mafia trait. Town do it just as much as scum. It more comes from people who are less confident in their abilities and hence look to other's opinions to guide them.

Also, chronologically, NorwegianboyEE was the first who hinted that 2B might be scum.

And now they are dead.

I think this is a good point that I've only just come to realise. This kind of throwaway line is exactly the kind of thing that I'd expect someone who is new to mafia to make a night kill over. Especially since not a lot went on day 1 so there's very little substance to perform night kills on. I do question, however, would any mafia team with 2B55 in really let him decide the kill? Regardless, this has made me doubt my town read on 2B55 a bit but I'd still want to see Crybaby lynched first.

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mutantdevle

Moderation Team

From: Hell

Joined: 2015-03-31

Posts: 3,848

Website

Re: Mafia 22 [Loaf and Sangas Win]

My brain hurts reading Anatoly's post...

Let me just understand 1 thing, you are claiming you are the onion role and that you roleblocked taskmanager last night?

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mutantdevle

Moderation Team

From: Hell

Joined: 2015-03-31

Posts: 3,848

Website

Re: Mafia 22 [Loaf and Sangas Win]

Also, you criticised jawapa for voting 2B55 with the comment "he is stupidly showing he is loaf". Which of the 2 are you referring to? And how does that even make any sense when you said you think they are both loaf???

And why are you trying to figure out who the loaf are? I personally think that's a very mafia thing to do.

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mutantdevle

Moderation Team

From: Hell

Joined: 2015-03-31

Posts: 3,848

Website

Re: Mafia 22 [Loaf and Sangas Win]

Yes, what did you not understand?

I'm not understanding the amount of useless text surrounding that... if that was your point then it's very important and you should have just said that in a clear and concise way.

Does anyone else have any information from their role to back up Anatoly's claim? Because I'm personally very sceptical of it.

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mutantdevle

Moderation Team

From: Hell

Joined: 2015-03-31

Posts: 3,848

Website

Re: Mafia 22 [Loaf and Sangas Win]

Not to vote for the loaf, because they may be still on our side.

That's a fair point, but I'm sure a simple L-1 claim would stop that happening. Also, I'd argue that they're definitely still on the side of the town because, otherwise, the game would be over already.

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mutantdevle

Moderation Team

From: Hell

Joined: 2015-03-31

Posts: 3,848

Website

Re: Mafia 22 [Loaf and Sangas Win]

What the **** is actually going on right now?

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