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#1 2019-02-21 20:37:41

272
Member
From: Everywhere
Joined: 2015-08-26
Posts: 240

Why Everybody Edits is dying, and how to "bring it back to life."

So I mentioned on the "Ways to make the game better?" post that the only way I think that Everybody Edits could live on, is a full on remaster of the game. I thought about it a bit, and decided to make my own thread for this idea. I'm not going to claim that this is the path that the game should go. I am only going to be looking at this purely from a marketing standpoint

It's fact that Everybody Edits is a dying game. The players just aren't there, the people working on it aren't getting paid(they get paid very little, but it's not really enough to consider it a job), and the servers are probably costing more than what Everybody Edits is making(Surprisingly enough, this is actually false. I didn't know that there was some deal with Player IO, and I assumed, knowing the average prices of server hosting, that Everybody Edits wouldn't be able to afford the servers for very long.) There is just no way around it. The way the game is now, it won't survive, it wont progress, and it wont escape its' inevitable death. Even if Everybody Edits Universe finally came out, if it stuck to the original game's design, it too, would die out. To find out why Everybody Edits is failing, we must look a competitor succeeds. In this instance, the most similar game I can think of to Everybody Edits is Super Mario Maker(1 & 2).

First, lets look at the similarities between Everybody Edits and Super Mario Maker, so that we can establish the differences:

Hidden text

Now that we've taken a look at how the games are similar, let's look at what Super Mario Maker has to offer that Everybody Edits doesn't. These are the things that drive Super Mario Maker's success.

Hidden text

So if these are the things that makes Super Mario Maker infinitely more marketable than Everybody Edits, let's think about what's kept Everybody Edits just barely outside of the jaws of death for all this time. In other words, the reasons that we've all stayed around for so long.

Hidden text

Now that we've compared and contrasted Everybody Edits with a similar competitor, like Super Mario Maker, we should also think about other successful games, to see problems Everybody Edits has, and things we can do to widen the market.

Hidden text


TDLR: If I was to attempt to revive Everybody Edits, I would probably end up remaking/re-coding the game from the ground up, adding the possibility of new game modes to play with, redo the game's graphics, add more animations, and then finally, I would make the game available on more platforms, like steam, and google play. However, by that point, it would no longer be the Everybody Edits that we know.

Last edited by 272 (2019-02-22 07:55:32)

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#2 2019-02-21 20:59:41

Kira
Formerly Dream
Joined: 2015-04-04
Posts: 1,769

Re: Why Everybody Edits is dying, and how to "bring it back to life."

Mr. Superman wrote:

TDLR: If I was to attempt to revive Everybody Edits, I would probably end up remaking/re-coding the game from the ground up, adding the possibility of new game modes to play with, redo the game's graphics, add more animations, and then finally, I would make the game available on more platforms, like steam, and google play. However, by that point, it would no longer be the Everybody Edits that we know.

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#3 2019-02-21 21:17:43

Gosha
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From: Russia
Joined: 2015-03-15
Posts: 5,622

Re: Why Everybody Edits is dying, and how to "bring it back to life."

272 wrote:

the people working on it aren't getting paid

They do, actually. Not much (some get less, some get more, but they are paid)

272 wrote:

and the servers are probably costing more than what Everybody Edits is making.

Current ee plan has some nice discounts for servers costs (i don't know the details but iirc it is connected that Everybody Edits was created as a way for Chris (original creator) to demonstrate PlayerIO in action)
And with Patreon money EE staff have money. I would suggest looking deeper in spendings xenonetix provided in his "security" thread, you might find some curious stuff

272 wrote:

The way the game is now, it won't survive, it wont progress, and it wont escape its' inevitable death.

That is true, but people have been saying it for over 4 years now. so /shrug

272 wrote:

Even if Everybody Edits Universe finally came out, if it stuck to the original game's design

Who told you that? The idea of EEU was to start fresh with the basic idea of EE, but branch out in a different way.

272 wrote:

In this instance, the most similar game I can think of to Everybody Edits is Super Mario Maker(1 & 2).

I really Love SMM1 (and judging by the trailer, 2 will be even more awesome), but they are not very similar in terms of gameplay.
The only similarity they have is level creation for other people, that's it. The gameplay is different, no multiplayer (it is the essential part of ee), limited levels, No Timeless levels, and many more..

Hidden text
272 wrote:

TDLR: If I was to attempt to revive Everybody Edits, I would probably end up remaking/re-coding the game from the ground up, adding the possibility of new game modes to play with, redo the game's graphics, add more animations, and then finally, I would make the game available on more platforms, like steam, and google play. However, by that point, it would no longer be the Everybody Edits that we know.

Yeah, they do exactly that. EEU is not a copy of EE made in a different language
it's a proper remake with it's own code which isn't taken from current EE.

Graphics will be 24x24 and most of them will be redone

Making game available on more platforms is hard, You must pay fees and run support for every single platform. EE is just not that large even to think about it.


TDLR: I agree that EE needs to change, but most of the things you point out and suggest are probably impossible considering the small size of EE as a game, small non-professional team (compared to Nintendo employees), and don't even get me started on the owner //forums.everybodyedits.com/img/smilies/wink . Also, as much as i love SMM, i wouldn't like EE to become a copy of it with multiplayer.


From my point of view, EE should be remade from the start and sticking to it's formula. Everybody should have access to every block, There shouldn't be Single player mode, people should play together. If you want to create shop, make it accessories only (smileys and ****). No reward-giving campaigns. You shouldn't reward players for playing the game, you should reward them for being creative and creating good levels. So if you want to create campaigns - reward the amazing creator, not the player. Player should have fun playing good level and trying to improve their building skills. And many moreeee things...
but i should stop writing this all already

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#4 2019-02-21 21:22:59

TaskManager
Formerly maxi123
From: i really should update this
Joined: 2015-03-01
Posts: 7,096

Re: Why Everybody Edits is dying, and how to "bring it back to life."

bruh "ee is dying" threads are a meme that is so dead at this point that i cant even be bothered to fully read the tldr


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#5 2019-02-21 21:58:40

272
Member
From: Everywhere
Joined: 2015-08-26
Posts: 240

Re: Why Everybody Edits is dying, and how to "bring it back to life."

Gosha wrote:
Hidden text

Sure, okay, they are getting paid, but from what I heard, they are getting paid way below minimum wage, and the point was actually that it's not exactly enough to consider it a job.

I suppose I didn't actually know how much the servers cost, but I'd still imagine that EE is getting very little income, and I know generally how much servers cost. I didn't know that Player IO was helping out though, so I have no idea how much the servers are costing with that.

It is explained later on that EEU, if it just has what EE has to offer without any changes to the overall game design, it will get a bunch of players, and then flop, just as EE did. Also, Super Mario Maker is similar just due to the style of play. You make a level, share it, you play other people's levels. That's what I was trying to say about them being similar.

What I was trying to explain about the things about Super Mario Maker, was simply what it has that make people play it. I am not necessarily suggesting that EE needs to have a previously established story mode, but it certainly helps out super mario maker, which was the point. I believe I've also explained that a game doesn't necessarily need higher graphics, as there are many games that have lower quality graphics, but they must also combat this with fun, and interesting gameplay. This is something EE doesn't exactly have a lot of.

The next thing, is a game doesn't need a lot of money to be produced on a game system, you would just need to work around the system's development kit, which is usually not that hard to obtain. I've heard that EEU will be based around Unity, if that is the case, then there shouldn't be much of an issue, as the Switch, and other systems have great support with unity. The actual point of this though, was that it's on other, more popular platforms than EE is currently. Steam, and other platforms, which is supposedly the plan, will work as well.

Advertising generally comes after the fact of being a good game. As I said, not just paid advertising, but people talking about the game in general. It's not exactly something you see people talking about, or playing outside of these forums.

Single-player is a key thing though. Currently, there aren't very many players, which is a problem because there is nothing really much to do without other players being online. I believe that some sort of single-player method would help Everybody Edits in gaining more people to play multiplayer, where there any currently.

Regardless, the overall gameplay of EE is repetitive and boring. There currently aren't really any ways other than bots to make it more interesting.

Several of the platforms I listed are actually not that difficult. For example, in terms of money, getting on Nintendo eShop is actually free. Steam costs a one time payment of $100, etc. Getting on every platform isn't something really to worry about yet, but if at some point EE is to grow large, getting it on multiple platforms will certainly help it.

If EEU does what they say, then EEU will certainly be more successful than EE, but they still need to change a few key aspects of the game, such as improving gameplay, or adding some other way of playing, so that the game is more interesting. Team size doesn't necessarily even matter, as I've seen games made by one person that became big things. As EE becomes more popular, and interest in the game rises, the team will inevitably grow larger. Example: Minecraft was a one man creation that grew into a small team that grew into a larger team, which eventually grew to be one of the most successful games in the world.

I agree with pretty much most of the things you said. I was not suggesting that EE become more like SMM, but instead saying how we can look at SMM to get some ideas on how EE needs to change.

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#6 2019-02-21 22:11:33

Security-Drone
Formerly Killerthegreat
From: Chile (Homeland: UK)
Joined: 2015-02-18
Posts: 240

Re: Why Everybody Edits is dying, and how to "bring it back to life."

Being paid in EE is like a paid hobby.
Some people enjoy programming, and learning from it. Being paid (albeit a low amount) is a bonus I guess.
Same goes for design. (I'm learning each time I make something)
Dunno about campaign curators though. Maybe they do.
Moderating is being paid for dishing out punishment. Another bonus right?

And like gosha stated before, EE is making more money with its slightly extended AOE on the internet. Patreon, T-shirts, EE cereals (a face for every flavour), etc...
TBH I have no idea what's in EEU, only from what they've stated on the forums. But from what they've said, it sounds like a promising re-vamp.


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#7 2019-02-21 23:46:37

LukeM
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From: England
Joined: 2016-06-03
Posts: 2,681
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Re: Why Everybody Edits is dying, and how to "bring it back to life."

Just a few corrections:

- EE currently makes enough money to pay for its servers on its own, the reason we needed Patreon was because during the overlap period we'll be paying for two sets of servers, so costs will be significantly higher for a while.

- It was the old reboot (which was discontinued) that was going to use Unity, since then we've decided that HTML5 is a better way to go as Unity's support on the web is shaky at best, HTML5 is supported natively by pretty much all browsers now (and is less likely to go the way of Flash any time soon)

- "you would just need to work around the system's development kit, which is usually not that hard to obtain" - the problem is not the difficulty of getting something to run on the device, its the fact that to support things like the switch we'd need to create an entirely seperate version of the game (afaik), which just isn't worth the huge amount of effort that is required //forums.everybodyedits.com/img/smilies/tongue

- We are however planning on putting EEU on more platforms than EE is currently on, as HTML5 is much more widely supported than Flash, so it will likely be possible to support mobile / Steam / whatever.

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#8 2019-02-22 00:00:31

Yu
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Joined: 2018-06-18
Posts: 219

Re: Why Everybody Edits is dying, and how to "bring it back to life."

The only thing EE needs at this point is legs

Smiley legs

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#9 2019-02-22 00:20:21

Surrealism
Formerly Arizona0117
From: the blevins
Joined: 2018-06-08
Posts: 227

Re: Why Everybody Edits is dying, and how to "bring it back to life."

honestly if i was part of the ee staff team i wouldn't care if i wasn't getting paid i'd be more than grateful i'm helping a game i enjoy improve


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#10 2019-02-22 05:48:11

TheTemmie
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Joined: 2019-02-16
Posts: 7

Re: Why Everybody Edits is dying, and how to "bring it back to life."

START TRANSMISSION

272 wrote:


Regardless, the overall gameplay of EE is repetitive and boring. There currently aren't really any ways other than bots to make it more interesting.

Actually, there are many ways to make it more interesting. Boss to Code, Top-down, and simply using power-ups help everything!
Honestly, if this game wasn't getting a remake, I would still play this past any other game.

P.S. you missed something in the things EE has that SMM doesn't. It's free. For THIS good of a game, this addicting!

Okay, now I'm all tired. Alexa, end call.

END TRANSMISSION.

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#11 2019-02-22 05:55:18

Kentiya
Design Team
From: United States
Joined: 2015-02-16
Posts: 1,056
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Re: Why Everybody Edits is dying, and how to "bring it back to life."

Yu wrote:

The only thing EE needs at this point is legs

Smiley legs

unknown.png


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#12 2019-02-22 07:47:13

272
Member
From: Everywhere
Joined: 2015-08-26
Posts: 240

Re: Why Everybody Edits is dying, and how to "bring it back to life."

TheTemmie wrote:

START TRANSMISSION

272 wrote:


Regardless, the overall gameplay of EE is repetitive and boring. There currently aren't really any ways other than bots to make it more interesting.

Actually, there are many ways to make it more interesting. Boss to Code, Top-down, and simply using power-ups help everything!
Honestly, if this game wasn't getting a remake, I would still play this past any other game.

P.S. you missed something in the things EE has that SMM doesn't. It's free. For THIS good of a game, this addicting!

Okay, now I'm all tired. Alexa, end call.

END TRANSMISSION.

Actually, you make a very good point. I'm about to add that in now. Price is probably the most important thing about a game's success, and I seemingly just glanced over it. https://wiki.everybodyedits.com/images/c/c0/069_LOL

Anyway, even with some of those things- specifically boss to code, isn't actually a thing in the game, but more of something that players do, that the game doesn't really support. Bots help make these kinds of thing happen, but they aren't supported in any way by the game itself. I don't exactly know how the EEU remake will recreate the code of Everybody Edits, but I can only assume that unless they make some sort of support for custom game modes, that we wont really see much of bots in the future. I don't even really know what a "Top-Down" is, but currently there aren't really that many "power ups" to choose from to make it more interesting. Not to mention, a majority of the worlds that are featured on the game, don't actually have those.

They also cost energy to even be able to use those- another mistake I personally see in the game's design. All things should be unlockable without grinding, or waiting for another day. Waiting for the next day to put more energy into a block may have worked for a Facebook game at one time, but from what I can tell, Facebook games are beginning to be less popular, and in my opinion, we need an alternative. This is similar to what Gosha said about the energy and shop system.

(Also, Boss to Codes aren't exactly...exciting... well, most of the time...)

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#13 2019-02-22 08:17:12

mikelolsuperman
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From: Under your bed
Joined: 2016-06-26
Posts: 986
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Re: Why Everybody Edits is dying, and how to "bring it back to life."

Kentiya wrote:
Yu wrote:

The only thing EE needs at this point is legs

Smiley legs

https://media.discordapp.net/attachment … nknown.png

Oh no


Blue is my favourite color

I also like lasagna, but not when it's blue

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#14 2019-02-22 10:14:53

NorwegianboyEE
Member
From: Norway
Joined: 2015-03-16
Posts: 1,056

Re: Why Everybody Edits is dying, and how to "bring it back to life."

I’m a bigger fan of the "spider legs" style smiley legs.


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#15 2019-02-22 12:46:08

peace
Member
From: admin land
Joined: 2015-08-10
Posts: 4,163

Re: Why Everybody Edits is dying, and how to "bring it back to life."

272 wrote:

This is something that Everybody Edits currently cannot offer

ee can offer sileplayer you can play a campaing alone ect


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#16 2019-02-22 14:28:49

Onjit
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From: is now closed, goodbye
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Posts: 7,510
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Re: Why Everybody Edits is dying, and how to "bring it back to life."

mikelolsuperman wrote:
Kentiya wrote:
Yu wrote:

The only thing EE needs at this point is legs

Smiley legs

https://media.discordapp.net/attachment … nknown.png

Oh no

O H    Y E A H

this signature is now closed

goodbye

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#17 2019-02-23 15:09:46

skullz17
Member
Joined: 2015-02-15
Posts: 6,525

Re: Why Everybody Edits is dying, and how to "bring it back to life."

How is EE a dull run and jump? How is super mario maker any better?


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#18 2019-02-23 16:06:38

mikelolsuperman
Member
From: Under your bed
Joined: 2016-06-26
Posts: 986
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Re: Why Everybody Edits is dying, and how to "bring it back to life."

skullz17 wrote:

How is EE a dull run and jump? How is super mario maker any better?

Super mario maker is probably doing better because it's mario. If you were to ask anyone the first gaming character they'd think of it would probably be mario. Mario has been around since pretty much the beginning of video games. Mario games are really populair since it can be advertised on tv and it's changed gaming. Everybody edits is just a flash game you're probably not gonna find if you didn't know about it. I got it from facebook, people got it from kong, but the total amount of players of EE even that played once is way lower than the people that play a mario game in a week. Mario maker could also be seen as a dream of mario players. Before super mario maker was announced there were probably a lot of people that wished they could make their own levels. You could make your own levels by using hacks but that would be hard to set up for some people.


Blue is my favourite color

I also like lasagna, but not when it's blue

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#19 2019-02-23 16:30:06

skullz17
Member
Joined: 2015-02-15
Posts: 6,525

Re: Why Everybody Edits is dying, and how to "bring it back to life."

mikelolsuperman wrote:
skullz17 wrote:

How is EE a dull run and jump? How is super mario maker any better?

Super mario maker is probably doing better because it's mario. If you were to ask anyone the first gaming character they'd think of it would probably be mario. Mario has been around since pretty much the beginning of video games. Mario games are really populair since it can be advertised on tv and it's changed gaming. Everybody edits is just a flash game you're probably not gonna find if you didn't know about it. I got it from facebook, people got it from kong, but the total amount of players of EE even that played once is way lower than the people that play a mario game in a week. Mario maker could also be seen as a dream of mario players. Before super mario maker was announced there were probably a lot of people that wished they could make their own levels. You could make your own levels by using hacks but that would be hard to set up for some people.

I know, I'm asking about gameplay specifically. 272 claims that EE's gameplay is dull compared to super mario maker. I personally haven't played super mario maker, but I've never thought that EE's gameplay was dull, and never thought it was what was stopping EE from being successful. I find 272's explanation to be too generic.

272 wrote:

Super Mario Maker has unique gameplay mechanics, setting it apart from other platformers. Mario has several powers and abilities that the players can abuse in order to beat a level, or that creators can design a puzzle around.

EE has unique gameplay mechanics, setting it apart from other platformers. EE has several effects and action blocks that the players can abuse in order to beat a level, or that creators can design a puzzle around.

Maybe you could argue that mario's abilities are more enjoyable to play with than a smiley that is mostly only able to run and jump having to take advantage of their environment, but I don't find that very convincing. It's very subjective and there's merit to both styles. They are different games after all.


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#20 2019-02-23 20:48:27

TheTemmie
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Joined: 2019-02-16
Posts: 7

Re: Why Everybody Edits is dying, and how to "bring it back to life."

Top-down is what I've been using for my maps. Pretty much, add no-grav, use bg-s for floors in a square room-like structure.

I would post an example of it, but this isn't the right section I believe.

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#21 2019-02-23 21:58:07

TaskManager
Formerly maxi123
From: i really should update this
Joined: 2015-03-01
Posts: 7,096

Re: Why Everybody Edits is dying, and how to "bring it back to life."

skullz17 wrote:

How is EE a dull run and jump? How is super mario maker any better?

hostile mobs and falling platforms and literally anything that can move or be interacted with, that is probably what makes super mario maker better than EE


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#22 2019-02-23 23:27:58

skullz17
Member
Joined: 2015-02-15
Posts: 6,525

Re: Why Everybody Edits is dying, and how to "bring it back to life."

TaskManager wrote:
skullz17 wrote:

How is EE a dull run and jump? How is super mario maker any better?

hostile mobs and falling platforms and literally anything that can move or be interacted with, that is probably what makes super mario maker better than EE

Again, I would say this is pretty much stylistic difference. I do think EE could benefit from some moving stuff, but some of these things probably would not add much to the game. And EE is still definitely better in other areas. More freedom in the visuals of a level, ability to create story, action blocks that allow for complex yet fluid systems/mechanics.

But the most important thing is that even if you are able to make the argument that super mario maker has objectively better gameplay than EE, I sincerely doubt this is what holds EE back. As far as I can tell, it doesn't matter how many new action blocks and fancy mechanics are added; as long as there's an adequate playerbase people will make cool stuff. I still think EX Crew's Odyssey is impressive, and the most complex game mechanic it has is a coin door. But the way that every room transforms once you've gotten the coin, so that the minis change into new ones that you can complete in the reverse direction, is pretty cool imo. The level even has a story, before signs existed. I know it's not much but it gives purpose to a long, difficult journey, and for me personally, having a narrative in a level adds a lot to it.

If we look back on the past few years, I think the reason EE hasn't gotten anywhere is due to this misconception that improving the gameplay and adding action block after action block will somehow improve the game as a whole. EE has a lot of bigger issues concerning growing and retaining its playerbase. Won't go into detail, but I don't think EE facilitates the things that can make this game addicting as well as it could.


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#23 2019-02-24 00:27:16

TaskManager
Formerly maxi123
From: i really should update this
Joined: 2015-03-01
Posts: 7,096

Re: Why Everybody Edits is dying, and how to "bring it back to life."

skullz17 wrote:

I do think EE could benefit from some moving stuff, but some of these things probably would not add much to the game.

thing is, EE community has some quite creative people, thus i think it would actually add a whole lot to the game, or at least the community would be able to gain a whole lot out of it
for example, look at how much usage of switches evolved since they were added: first we had basic switch doors between rooms, now we have literal calculators, and levels like A - MP and that 3D labyrinth from a puzzle campaign

skullz17 wrote:

And EE is still definitely better in other areas. More freedom in the visuals of a level, ability to create story, action blocks that allow for complex yet fluid systems/mechanics.

true, stylistic variety and gate/door systems, thats where ee really shines
adding movable components would create another field where EE would have the potential to shine
think of begone or endless pain with moving platforms (lol)

skullz17 wrote:

I sincerely doubt this is what holds EE back.

well, it could be one of the causes that hold EE back, idk, this wasnt my point
i just saw the question "what makes super mario maker better than EE" in your post and i laid out my point of view
not saying thats the cause of ee dying or whatever

skullz17 wrote:

As far as I can tell, it doesn't matter how many new action blocks and fancy mechanics are added; as long as there's an adequate playerbase people will make cool stuff. I still think EX Crew's Odyssey is impressive, and the most complex game mechanic it has is a coin door. But the way that every room transforms once you've gotten the coin, so that the minis change into new ones that you can complete in the reverse direction, is pretty cool imo. The level even has a story, before signs existed. I know it's not much but it gives purpose to a long, difficult journey, and for me personally, having a narrative in a level adds a lot to it.

levels like odyssey had their creators pushing their creativity to the possible limit that the game allows
by expanding the gameplay mechanics with dynamic/interactive objects/blocks, we can raise these limits
as mentioned above, it did work out with switches, for example

"movable ****" (all the potential dynamic/interactive action blocks that im talking about) is something drastically different from a simple new high/low jump effect or acid liquid (the latter in my opinion is completely useless, this is not the kind of action blocks that i anticipated), i believe it would actually improve the game as a whole, since it would give the worlds some sense of life or whatever
switch systems are the most "alive" or dynamic things in EE worlds right now and we all know how complicated that **** is

tl;dr the EE worlds are static and that sucks


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