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#26 2019-01-07 19:31:19, last edited by LukeM (2019-01-07 19:33:50)

LukeM
Dev Team
From: England
Joined: 2016-06-03
Posts: 2,818
Website

Re: Security Concerns, & Reasons for Firing Staff in January 2019

XxAtillaxX wrote:

you incessantly refuse to admit you were wrong, and you have not apologized for acting the way you did

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#27 2019-01-07 19:36:38, last edited by XxAtillaxX (2019-01-07 19:43:01)

XxAtillaxX
Member
From: Canada
Joined: 2015-11-28
Posts: 3,967

Re: Security Concerns, & Reasons for Firing Staff in January 2019

LukeM wrote:
XxAtillaxX wrote:

you incessantly refuse to admit you were wrong, and you have not apologized for acting the way you did

https://i.imgur.com/ScntLpY.png

I don't think a sincere apology consists of six words, and he still hadn't admitted he was wrong about the ordeal with Gosha. I suppose a six word apology is about as good as it'll get from him though for the myriad of issues he has caused and the way he treated his entire team for over a year.

The entire plan was initially to fire Gosha for any reason possible. He spoke to Gosha telling him to either work on the client updates through November-December and "voluntarily resign" or be fired immediately.
It didn't happen because the team protested his course of actions as far as my understanding, and the false choice of whether to work and inevitably be forced to resign or be fired. He was looking for a reason to dispose of Gosha, for any reason.

In this circumstance, his reason for firing Gosha was unwarranted, and it was Xeno who was wrong about the errors generated by Player.IO, and his fragile ego was damaged in a myriad of ways upon the team sharing their opinions, causing him to fire the entire team.


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#28 2019-01-07 19:43:37

LukeM
Dev Team
From: England
Joined: 2016-06-03
Posts: 2,818
Website

Re: Security Concerns, & Reasons for Firing Staff in January 2019

XxAtillaxX wrote:
LukeM wrote:

I don't think a sincere apology consists of six words, and he still hadn't admitted he was wrong about the ordeal with Gosha. I suppose a six word apology is about as good as it'll get from him though for the myriad of issues he has caused and the way he treated his entire team for over a year.

There was more, but a lot of what we talked about was internal matters that I probably shouldn't be posting publicly on the forums XD

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#29 2019-01-07 20:22:20

mutantdevle
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From: Hell
Joined: 2015-03-31
Posts: 2,842
Website

Re: Security Concerns, & Reasons for Firing Staff in January 2019

Raphe9000 wrote:

Jet, I think what Diff is trying to say is that you aren't winning over anybody with that attitude.

I've personally already written Jet off as someone who has a hatred for Xeno beyond reasonable bias. He can show me screenshots and I will form my own opinion but his words mean nothing to me because I expect everything he says to be exaggerated.


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#30 2019-01-07 20:41:20

Jet
Wiki Mod (Formerly zyhrllos)
Joined: 2015-11-08
Posts: 2,023

Re: Security Concerns, & Reasons for Firing Staff in January 2019

mutantdevle wrote:
Raphe9000 wrote:

Jet, I think what Diff is trying to say is that you aren't winning over anybody with that attitude.

I've personally already written Jet off as someone who has a hatred for Xeno beyond reasonable bias. He can show me screenshots and I will form my own opinion but his words mean nothing to me because I expect everything he says to be exaggerated.

youre not who im trying to please sir


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#31 2019-01-07 22:00:24

Schlog
Member
Joined: 2015-07-21
Posts: 1,851

Re: Security Concerns, & Reasons for Firing Staff in January 2019

atilla you're the ultimate ee drama magnet

you only ever appear to **** about management whenever something goes even slightly wrong

arent you old enough to just not give a **** anymore

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#32 2019-01-07 23:35:32, last edited by Yu (2019-01-07 23:36:00)

Yu
Member
Joined: 2018-06-18
Posts: 269

Re: Security Concerns, & Reasons for Firing Staff in January 2019

I kinda feel like you lashed out and lacked self-control when it came to fire Phina & LukeM (evidence is you rehired LukeM and even provided sound arguments for Phina's moderatorship). You could just have changed Phina's role to moderator and had a chat with her.

However, I think the biggest issue regarding all of this is how personally you as a developer take critique. Maintaining a transparency between suggestions and complaints as well as keeping moderator conversations private is a tremendous boon in keeping staff arguments/public perception & rumors at a minimum. Professional video game companies close all staff-to-staff communication closed and concealed so that the staff can have the opportunity to grow and improve their communication method without facing retaliation by the community.

Please, next time maintain a strong sense of transparency, and whenever communicating in public, please post something positive and encouraging. Or, when a question is asked regarding the game, have a staff member answer it.

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#33 2019-01-08 00:14:56, last edited by 2B55B5G TNG (2019-01-08 04:28:51)

2B55B5G TNG
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From: Levitation Planet
Joined: 2016-08-27
Posts: 1,439

Re: Security Concerns, & Reasons for Firing Staff in January 2019

Didn’t thought Xeno was this kind of person, okay. Even Xeno apologized for LukeM and Phina he still didn’t do it for Gosha, he just hates Gosha no matter what. A bias game owner won’t bring EEU into a good future. Also about the trust bar, it’s just based on whether someone agree or disagree you, so it’s just unfair.

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#34 2019-01-08 07:46:20

peace
Member
From: admin land
Joined: 2015-08-10
Posts: 5,687

Re: Security Concerns, & Reasons for Firing Staff in January 2019

Yu wrote:

Or, when a question is asked regarding the game, have a staff member answer it.

this forum is also filled wiht nonsense its hard to tell apart


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#35 2019-01-08 08:01:41

azurepudding
Member
Joined: 2016-11-18
Posts: 726

Re: Security Concerns, & Reasons for Firing Staff in January 2019

Err..

Were these explanations truly necessary.. couldn't you have left it as "There were disagreements"?  To go at length, paragraphs even, about personal issues is.. drama-inducing.  This feels better suited to private than public view, so that drama isn't fueled and that we don't have members turning against each other.  I do recall a similar issue happening with a game called Terraria but it was simply announced as disagreements, to keep it clean and professional.

This is just a little surprising to me, and makes me feel somewhat uncomfortable about the future.  I don't know much about what happened, but if you're willing to share private stuff like this, it worries what other private things you would share as well.  I hope you understand the concern.


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#36 2019-01-08 09:53:17

Emma333
Member
From: The Netherlands
Joined: 2015-04-16
Posts: 572

Re: Security Concerns, & Reasons for Firing Staff in January 2019

From an outsider perspective it’s hard to make out what’s really going on here. There are many people saying very different things. I still want to share some thoughts of mine:
When two staff members have a disagreement that leads to problems in managing the game, it’s not very unwise to make 1 of those members leave the staff. It will never be a fair decision to fire one of these staff members, but it will be better than doing nothing and having the arguments escalate. So if what Xenotix wrote is true, then I think it’s best that Gosha was let go. Though I would also agree that it is unfair.
My observation in the past year is that this staff has done a good job in giving the players hope that the game will not die very soon, and I’m thankful for that. I also believe the course this game is going right now is very promising. I can not know who’s responsibility this is. Gosha states that Xenotix is sabotaging this course, and I suppose that’s possible, but it also might be an over statement.
It’s clear that Xenotix is not perfect, and has some issues with harsh critics. The things people are saying about Xenotix in this topic are therefore understandable. But I would also argue that many people here are over reacting and only stirring things up which is not helpful.


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#37 2019-01-08 19:38:19

Xenonetix
EE Owner (Formerly Mega Lamb)
From: Working on EEU
Joined: 2015-03-07
Posts: 835
Website

Re: Security Concerns, & Reasons for Firing Staff in January 2019

XxAtillaxX wrote:

He still hadn't admitted he was wrong about the ordeal with Gosha.

Because I wasn't.


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#38 2019-01-08 20:31:18

XxAtillaxX
Member
From: Canada
Joined: 2015-11-28
Posts: 3,967

Re: Security Concerns, & Reasons for Firing Staff in January 2019

Xenonetix wrote:
XxAtillaxX wrote:

He still hadn't admitted he was wrong about the ordeal with Gosha.

Because I wasn't.

You were absolutely wrong about the error, insisting that you were correct about the game code being at fault, and then proceeding to threaten to fire two of your staff who were trying to explain to you that Player.IO was responsible, which was correct.
You threatened to fire them over something petty like being unable to login for a few minutes, over something which is demonstrably not their fault.

The ironic aspect of the situation is that you've done the same thing very recently.
You broke the linked accounts, preventing those users from logging into the lobby.

Why don't you fire yourself? You broke the lobby just like you accuse them of doing.

Puzzle me that, Mr. Logician.


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#39 2019-01-08 20:38:19

Xenonetix
EE Owner (Formerly Mega Lamb)
From: Working on EEU
Joined: 2015-03-07
Posts: 835
Website

Re: Security Concerns, & Reasons for Firing Staff in January 2019

XxAtillaxX wrote:

Puzzle me that, Mr. Logician.

~0.01% of the community unable to login (as they're linked) vs 100% of the community unable to login.


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#40 2019-01-08 20:46:49

Different55
Forum Admin
Joined: 2015-02-07
Posts: 15,948

Re: Security Concerns, & Reasons for Firing Staff in January 2019

Xenonetix wrote:
XxAtillaxX wrote:

Puzzle me that, Mr. Logician.

~0.01% of the community unable to login (as they're linked) vs 100% of the community unable to login.

Difference is one of those is human error on EE's end and the other (as far as anyone in the community currently knows) was 100% unpreventable on EE's end. If that ain't the case it'd make a world of difference. And if it is the case why is it even being brought up?


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#41 2019-01-08 20:55:41, last edited by XxAtillaxX (2019-01-08 20:57:26)

XxAtillaxX
Member
From: Canada
Joined: 2015-11-28
Posts: 3,967

Re: Security Concerns, & Reasons for Firing Staff in January 2019

Different55 wrote:
Xenonetix wrote:
XxAtillaxX wrote:

Puzzle me that, Mr. Logician.

~0.01% of the community unable to login (as they're linked) vs 100% of the community unable to login.

Difference is one of those is human error on EE's end and the other (as far as anyone in the community currently knows) was 100% unpreventable on EE's end. If that ain't the case it'd make a world of difference. And if it is the case why is it even being brought up?

It is absolutely the case that he did not have to do anything to the linked accounts.

He disabled the connection type because he thought it was being abused, and it was not. Instead of doing a security code audit, his decision was to arbitrarily disable them - for several days.
It wouldn't surprise me if he lied about the reason to save face, but that's essentially what it is, and I have conversations where he insinuates such, and the timing very much coincides.

Nonetheless, he still refuses to admit he was wrong even when provided with direct evidence that Player.IO was down, and it was not them who were at fault.
He won't admit it, because his pride and ego is too fragile to admit he made a mistake. It's a shame, really.


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#42 2019-01-09 00:51:15

mutantdevle
Member
From: Hell
Joined: 2015-03-31
Posts: 2,842
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Re: Security Concerns, & Reasons for Firing Staff in January 2019

Xeno why can't you just say that you were wrong about Gosha being at fault for people not being able to log in but that you still think it's best that he isn't a part of the team?

I think you were well within your rights to fire Gosha. Not because of the login issue but because I think it's undeniable that the two of you could not get on and probably didn't have much respect for each other - that's not a good dynamic in any team.

I'm glad you've apologised over firing Luke and that you recognise that it was a genuine mistake. As far as I'm concerned you've redeemed yourself in that area.

One area you haven't redeemed yourself in, however, is in firing Phina. Unless you have more of a negative history that hasn't been made clear to us, I think you were wrong and that is was a mistake to fire Phina. Your reasons aren't justified and the screenshots we've seen of your conversations shows unacceptable behaviour on your part. In my opinion, you still have some amending to tend to here.





I, personally, want you to remain as owner of EE. But I'm not sure if that's just because I think a change in ownership will heavily negatively affect the progress of EEU. Apologising for your mistakes is good, but what really matters is what you do about them. I fear that you may make more mistakes of this magnitude, possibly even worse, in the future - because you were the main problem here. You need to do something about that and change yourself for the better. If you don't or can't do that, then I'd very much like to see ownership of EEU passed onto someone else soon after it's full release. From what I understand of it, your deal with Luke is a good first step for improvement. But I think it should be your new year's resolution to make yourself a better person so that you don't lash out like this again, keep your cool when it matters, don't let the power get to your head, and handle things with more professionalism. I hope you think on this as you enjoy your holiday.


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#43 2019-01-09 02:46:34

frostflare
Member
Joined: 2016-05-23
Posts: 47

Re: Security Concerns, & Reasons for Firing Staff in January 2019

i already know my opinion isn't going to be deemed as popular by many. but after observing the situation for a few days, you guys are kind of hypocrites. your so quick to judge and get out your knives and pitchforks to crucify someone else that you seem to forgotten that none of you are innocent or perfect. i can guarantee you there's not a person here who's hasn't done something very similar or far worst then this at some point in their life. difference was no one was there to expose your dirty laundry for the world to see to have others target and go after you. but hey, i guess because it's happening to xeno, it makes it okay, right?

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#44 2019-01-09 02:54:23, last edited by azurepudding (2019-01-09 03:01:07)

azurepudding
Member
Joined: 2016-11-18
Posts: 726

Re: Security Concerns, & Reasons for Firing Staff in January 2019

frostflare wrote:

i already know my opinion isn't going to be deemed as popular by many. but after observing the situation for a few days, you guys are kind of hypocrites. your so quick to judge and get out your knives and pitchforks to crucify someone else that you seem to forgotten that none of you are innocent or perfect. i can guarantee you there's not a person here who's hasn't done something very similar or far worst then this at some point in their life. difference was no one was there to expose your dirty laundry for the world to see to have others target and go after you. but hey, i guess because it's happening to xeno, it makes it okay, right?

By that logic, whenever someone makes a mistake, no one is ever allowed to have an opinion about it? 

Your point here is entirely an assumption aimed at no one in particular.  Keep in mind there's also a higher standard for some people, for example, being the owner of a game with an issue revolving around the game, than a typical player, especially when it's over something that effects the game.


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#45 2019-01-09 03:05:37

Raphe9000
Member
Joined: 2015-03-16
Posts: 1,541

Re: Security Concerns, & Reasons for Firing Staff in January 2019

mutantdevle wrote:

One area you haven't redeemed yourself in, however, is in firing Phina. Unless you have more of a negative history that hasn't been made clear to us, I think you were wrong and that is was a mistake to fire Phina. Your reasons aren't justified and the screenshots we've seen of your conversations shows unacceptable behaviour on your part. In my opinion, you still have some amending to tend to here.

The whole firing Phina thing is still keeping me on edge. Phina seems to have been a perfect moderator, yet Xeno has seemingly made no effort to get her back on the team after firing her for what seems to be a very trivial reason.

I believe Xeno should stay the owner 100%, but I can't and won't get over the fact he fired Phina unless there was a genuine reason other than the ones stated or if he attempts to rehire her.

I still feel should we continue to have Gosha on the team, but Xeno at least justified that from a business standpoint.


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#46 2019-01-09 03:35:27, last edited by Slabdrill (2019-01-09 03:36:24)

Slabdrill
Formerly 12345678908642
From: canada
Joined: 2015-08-15
Posts: 3,237
Website

Re: Security Concerns, & Reasons for Firing Staff in January 2019

1) I would've been fine with the linked account situation if it was clearly stated when the update hit "people with linked accounts will need to play on the site they linked from because we intentionally disabled linked accounts due to security concerns", but all I got was unknown.png (note: a few hours after the update).

2) I don't know gosha enough to comment about reasons for them to be fired (a buildup of past actions will... build up), but this particular incident doesn't seem like they were at fault at all, and so shouldn't be counted on their record. However, note that an action shouldn't be considered bad if many don't see it as a bad thing - which seems to be the case with a lot of this.

3) Phina was spreading negativity which isn't a good thing (a professional meeting should talk about the future and not blame the past as it can't be changed), however I still believe they belong as the team but as less of a leader; perhaps a regular moderator. If you need to confide in someone, confide in someone who won't share negativity - the staff team is large enough to have someone, probably.


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#47 2019-01-09 12:39:26

frostflare
Member
Joined: 2016-05-23
Posts: 47

Re: Security Concerns, & Reasons for Firing Staff in January 2019

azurepudding wrote:
frostflare wrote:

i already know my opinion isn't going to be deemed as popular by many. but after observing the situation for a few days, you guys are kind of hypocrites. your so quick to judge and get out your knives and pitchforks to crucify someone else that you seem to forgotten that none of you are innocent or perfect. i can guarantee you there's not a person here who's hasn't done something very similar or far worst then this at some point in their life. difference was no one was there to expose your dirty laundry for the world to see to have others target and go after you. but hey, i guess because it's happening to xeno, it makes it okay, right?

By that logic, whenever someone makes a mistake, no one is ever allowed to have an opinion about it? 

Your point here is entirely an assumption aimed at no one in particular.  Keep in mind there's also a higher standard for some people, for example, being the owner of a game with an issue revolving around the game, than a typical player, especially when it's over something that effects the game.

after thinking about whether or not to even respond to this. no offense azure, but you have an tendency to take words that other people have said out of context. and i never stated you couldn't have an opinion over this matter. but i did say not to crucify someone else. (which are two completely different things) also, if you been somewhat paying attention at all as to what's been going on, you would known this wasn't an 'assumption aim at no one in particular' as you phrased it. and maybe not to you, but to me. it doesn't matter who or what someone's position of power is. they're still a human being, like you

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#48 2019-01-09 13:44:20

Yu
Member
Joined: 2018-06-18
Posts: 269

Re: Security Concerns, & Reasons for Firing Staff in January 2019

frostflare wrote:
azurepudding wrote:
frostflare wrote:

i already know my opinion isn't going to be deemed as popular by many. but after observing the situation for a few days, you guys are kind of hypocrites. your so quick to judge and get out your knives and pitchforks to crucify someone else that you seem to forgotten that none of you are innocent or perfect. i can guarantee you there's not a person here who's hasn't done something very similar or far worst then this at some point in their life. difference was no one was there to expose your dirty laundry for the world to see to have others target and go after you. but hey, i guess because it's happening to xeno, it makes it okay, right?

By that logic, whenever someone makes a mistake, no one is ever allowed to have an opinion about it? 

Your point here is entirely an assumption aimed at no one in particular.  Keep in mind there's also a higher standard for some people, for example, being the owner of a game with an issue revolving around the game, than a typical player, especially when it's over something that effects the game.

after thinking about whether or not to even respond to this. no offense azure, but you have an tendency to take words that other people have said out of context. and i never stated you couldn't have an opinion over this matter. but i did say not to crucify someone else. (which are two completely different things) also, if you been somewhat paying attention at all as to what's been going on, you would known this wasn't an 'assumption aim at no one in particular' as you phrased it. and maybe not to you, but to me. it doesn't matter who or what someone's position of power is. they're still a human being, like you

Well, Xeno is *kinda* the *director* of Everybody Edits. If the dude who runs the whole show makes a mistake, this concerns EVERYONE involved. This isn't about humanity, this IS about position of power.

If the U.S. president made a mistake like firing all of his democratic or republican staff members, or something else that's dumb and puts citizens in a hazardous situation, you wouldn't just say "This is just a human, everyone makes mistakes." You would say, "I'm concerned for my future. This person is making risky decisions for the country."

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#49 2019-01-09 16:08:41

frostflare
Member
Joined: 2016-05-23
Posts: 47

Re: Security Concerns, & Reasons for Firing Staff in January 2019

Yu wrote:

Well, Xeno is *kinda* the *director* of Everybody Edits. If the dude who runs the whole show makes a mistake, this concerns EVERYONE involved. This isn't about humanity, this IS about position of power.

If the U.S. president made a mistake like firing all of his democratic or republican staff members, or something else that's dumb and puts citizens in a hazardous situation, you wouldn't just say "This is just a human, everyone makes mistakes." You would say, "I'm concerned for my future. This person is making risky decisions for the country."

did you seriously just compare a flash game over the internet to the safety and well being of countless lives? since i have a feeling of what your going to say next, i will leave it at this. the guy has already admitted things  like he made a mistake and handle that day poorly. but you won't get it a break and move on, will you?

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#50 2019-01-09 16:13:46

TaskManager
Formerly maxi123
From: i really should update this
Joined: 2015-03-01
Posts: 7,764

Re: Security Concerns, & Reasons for Firing Staff in January 2019

frostflare wrote:
Yu wrote:

Well, Xeno is *kinda* the *director* of Everybody Edits. If the dude who runs the whole show makes a mistake, this concerns EVERYONE involved. This isn't about humanity, this IS about position of power.

If the U.S. president made a mistake like firing all of his democratic or republican staff members, or something else that's dumb and puts citizens in a hazardous situation, you wouldn't just say "This is just a human, everyone makes mistakes." You would say, "I'm concerned for my future. This person is making risky decisions for the country."

did you seriously just compare a flash game over the internet to the safety and well being of countless lives? since i have a feeling of what your going to say next, i will leave it at this. the guy has already admitted things  like he made a mistake and handle that day poorly. but you won't get it a break and move on, will you?

"i cant prove my point so i quit"
fyi all of your posts in this thread look like pointless blabber and feigned whiteknighting
youre also calling Yu out for comparing a flash game owner to a president meanwhile you yourself compared flash game owner to an unnamed irrelevant person of the community
wtf is that hypocrisy


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