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#26 2018-07-01 16:18:38

Tomahawk
Forum Mod
From: BiH
Joined: 2015-02-18
Posts: 2,083

Re: You can support faster development of EE and the Reboot!

I agree with Luka.

Aren’t game staff meant to be beacons of light in the darkness? Shouldn’t these pillars of overwhelming, unfaltering integrity and virtue tower above us, setting an example for one and all? Yet here we are, being asked to drag our souls through the mud and unfairly alter the outcome of a competition.

If Bytearray has to code the rest of the game on a calculator then so be it, so long as there’s a shred of honour left in this world. The ends do not justify the means, and what basically amounts to bribery should be scorned.

I’d much rather he did a simple fundraiser. It’s not classy, but it’s honest. Shame on you OP.


One bot to rule them all, one bot to find them. One bot to bring them all... and with this cliché blind them.

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#27 2018-07-01 16:19:15

Luka504
Member
From: Serbia,probs never heard of it
Joined: 2015-02-19
Posts: 2,442

Re: You can support faster development of EE and the Reboot!

Xenonetix wrote:

You'd be free to change your rating after July 3rd.

I probably won't.

Xenonetix wrote:

I apologise if anything I say here comes across as rude, but this is a frustrating statement, because that's literally the opposite of what ByteArray is doing. He's asking politely for free support that costs you nothing, and not asking you to give any money.

Asking politely isn't anywhere near being opposite of begging. They're pretty close really. If you're saying I'm being hyperbolic, true I kinda am, but this isn't too far off from begging imo.

Millions of people do that every single day. Any time you click on an advertisement, you're supporting the game being advertised, and the site it's being advertised on. If you consider advertising as "begging for money", then why are you present on the internet at all? //forums.everybodyedits.com/img/smilies/neutral

Don't compare oranges and apples here. This isn't advertising. Byte put his game in a contest, and because his game has a 3.8 average he decided to ask his fans to rate his game 5 stars just so he can have a better chance of winning, even though his game doesn't deserve to win since a good chunk of the people who played it gave it 3 stars or lower.
In other examples, like when some mobile game asks you to rate their game, it pretty much never begs tells you to give it 5 stars, just to rate it anything and give a review.
And with traditional advertising, you're not supporting the dev just by clicking an ad of their respective game. If I click an ad, but don't install the game, then the developer gets nothing.

Xenonetix wrote:

Even when people aren't advertising, they specifically ask for your reviews on podcasts, or to "Hit that like button" on videos, and "Subscribe". I really don't see the difference here, except that Josh isn't even asking you to play his game, but just to help him win some money to help him out. In winning that money, that indirectly helps the development of Everybody Edits because he can upgrade his computer to be faster and more efficient.

Oh so he isn't asking you to play the game? Just to give it a review without even playing it? At all? So you're just giving undeserved recognition? Yeah that isn't suspicious at all. Do that for every game then.
And while I am all for supporting Byte and the game whenever I can, I most certainly won't support him by doing this. If you want to win a contest you need to earn it, because if he gets a free pass here then I demand to have all contest items on my account. It ''indirectly'' helps me doesn't it?

Xenonetix wrote:

Everybody Edits does not currently make anywhere near enough money to support the staff working on it, so you know as well as I do that Josh absolutely DOES deserve the money, and he's doing what he can to get it. For everything he's done so far, he deserves so much more than the minimum he can win on Kongregate, and if he wins nothing, working on the game will continue to be harder for everyone involved.

If he doesn't want to win nothing then why is he risking potential vote manipulation?

Anyway I think I'm done here. I said all that I need to say. Don't rate this game 5 stars if you don't believe it deserves 5 stars. Thank.


How long will it take me to get banned again?
Place your bets right here.

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#28 2018-07-01 16:51:58

P788
Member
Joined: 2015-03-23
Posts: 60

Re: You can support faster development of EE and the Reboot!

I condemn this. You are not advertising, you are specifically telling people to 5-star your game to win money. The Kongregate's monthly contests purpose is to reward the best games, and not who has more friends. The star rating purpose is for people to evaluate the games, which is not what a lot of people in this thread are doing, which is committing fraud on the contest, 5-staring in purpose for a "reward" (which is not guaranteed) of "faster development of EE and the Reboot". Kongregate's money is to pay for these games, not a crowd-fund for you.

Now, to Xenonetix:

   Telling people to click on a advertisement in exchange for work is NOT advertisement, which is just showing something to people see.
The "free support that costs nothing" you say is "actively trying to gather money from Kongregate that was not warranted, by falsifying the game's rating". It's morally wrong. It's not "asking you to give any money", it's "asking you to make Kongregate give money to you".

   Clicking on an advertisement is not supporting the game: clicking it in purpose is not allowed by advertisers, because they're not getting a "click" from someone interested, and therefore paying that advertisement for nothing.

   Josh does not deserve the money: he's asking for users to defraud the rating system in exchange for something. Even if it is deserved, it's Kongregate's decision and money, not yours: he is not warranted money because of helping EE. Defrauding the only factor of Kongregate's decision making is morally wrong and should be condemned.

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#29 2018-07-01 16:54:51, last edited by Xenonetix (2018-07-01 17:09:21)

Xenonetix
EE Owner (Formerly Mega Lamb)
From: Working on EEU
Joined: 2015-03-07
Posts: 835
Website

Re: You can support faster development of EE and the Reboot!

Luka504 wrote:
Xenonetix wrote:

You'd be free to change your rating after July 3rd.

I probably won't.

If you had voted it 5, and then wanted to change it to 3. Of course you wouldn't change it from 3 after July 3rd if that's your feeling on it. Please don't be facetious over a clearly innocuous statement.

Luka504 wrote:

Don't compare oranges and apples here.

They're both types of fruit. There is no problem at all with making such a comparison. I prefer apple juice over orange juice. Comparisons are easily made, so please don't demand that I don't make comparisons over things which clearly have traits in common.

Luka504 wrote:

He decided to ask his fans to rate his game 5 stars just so he can have a better chance of winning

Yes, which is his right to do. I feel like you misunderstand the definition of the word "fans". The comparison stands - Millions of people ask their fans for their support on their projects daily.

Luka504 wrote:

His game doesn't deserve to win since a good chunk of the people who played it gave it 3 stars or lower.

Not sure about this "good chunk" of people. The average rating is still a reasonable representation of the game's actual rating, considering it's had almost 12,000 plays in just 11 days. All Josh is doing is asking a few people to help him get his rating up by about 0.05 of a rating mark to help his chances. He's not encouraging people to make multiple accounts to "manipulate" the results, but asking a potential 200 or so people to make a small amount of difference to potentially moving him up one place in the standings for a little more monetary support. The majority of people voting for the game are voting it above 3 stars.

In the grand scheme of things, we're realists around here, and we know, sadly, that Josh will not win the top prize of $1,750, but that doesn't change the fact that he has the chance to, and if this push makes the difference between him winning $0 and $250, or the difference between winning $250 and $400, it will have been worth it.

Armor Games even states on its sponsorship site that it should have given Josh a sponsorship deal of $1,000 to $5,000, and then they completely went against their word by only giving him $350, and even that he had to fight for to be higher than $300. He "deserves" at least $650 more than he has received.

Luka504 wrote:

In other examples, like when some mobile game asks you to rate their game, it pretty much never begs tells you to give it 5 stars, just to rate it anything and give a review.

I feel like you have a naive and potentially closed-minded view of the mobile game market. There are plenty of games out there which encourage people to give 5 star reviews. "Enjoying our game? Rate it 4 stars or higher to receive this exclusive in-game item!" "Like us on Facebook to receive a chance of winning this item!" - Happens a lot, and worse than begging, it's effectively blackmail. Not only that, have you ever clicked through on an ad which pops up with a visual of the game having 4-5 stars? There are plenty of times when you click through only for the actual review to be 2-3 stars, so the games are false-advertising, but get away with it because legally they can claim that a certain portion of people voted it 4-5 stars.

If I ask my friends and family to rate my app or game 5 stars, it's because I'm passionate about my project and want it to succeed, not because I'm begging.

Luka504 wrote:

Oh so he isn't asking you to play the game? Just to give it a review without even playing it? At all? So you're just giving undeserved recognition? Yeah that isn't suspicious at all. Do that for every game then.

Again, he's asking politely for you to give it a star rating to support him for free. You're free to play the game if you wish, but if you don't have time to play the game, it's really not unreasonable to ask someone to quickly give the game a 5 star rating, and then return to the game a few days later to play it properly and give it whatever rating you feel it actually deserves.

Luka504 wrote:

And while I am all for supporting Byte and the game whenever I can, I most certainly won't support him by doing this.

As you're clearly so intent on taking everything people say so literally, I feel it's only fair to do the same for you.

This is an outright paradoxical contradictory statement. You are not "all for supporting Byte and the game whenever [you] can", and you are literally against supporting Byte and the game in this situation where you can support the game (for free), and not only actively choose not to do so, but are trying to get other people not to as well.

Please don't make statements which clearly can't possibly make sense when putting your point across. Don't compare oranges to apples here.

Luka504 wrote:

I demand to have all contest items on my account. It ''indirectly'' helps me doesn't it?

It does? How? Are you planning on selling your account to the highest bidder for profit?

Luka504 wrote:

If he doesn't want to win nothing then why is he risking potential vote manipulation?

He's not. He's checked the rules thoroughly, and there's nothing against him asking people to give him 5 stars. The risk would be if he suggested people do make multiple accounts to adjust the scores, but if there's just one vote from each person, there's no problem at all with him doing it.

Luka504 wrote:

Anyway I think I'm done here. I said all that I need to say. Don't rate this game 5 stars if you don't believe it deserves 5 stars. Thank.

I don't even have a problem with you rating the game 3 stars if that's what you feel it "deserves", but I do have a problem with you suggesting other people who want to support one of our most valued developers on Everybody Edits for FREE shouldn't do so.


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#30 2018-07-01 17:03:46

TaskManager
Formerly maxi123
From: i really should update this
Joined: 2015-03-01
Posts: 7,711

Re: You can support faster development of EE and the Reboot!

who could have thought an admin made thread would become a ****
meanwhile this is fun to watch


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#31 2018-07-01 17:18:24

Anak
Member
Joined: 2015-02-18
Posts: 2,083

Re: You can support faster development of EE and the Reboot!

I read the title and thought y'all were opening a Kickstarter or smth lol. I've been meaning to play the game though so when I do I'll be sure to rate it!

Also I'm not about to read these long **** posts but I don't think it's that deep. Y'all really are arguing just to argue huh

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#32 2018-07-01 17:33:32

Slabdrill
Formerly 12345678908642
From: canada
Joined: 2015-08-15
Posts: 3,228
Website

Re: You can support faster development of EE and the Reboot!

Hey, nice game!

I didn't give it a 5 star rating because i'm really stingy with rating anything other than 1 or 4.

...What is that "curiousity" award anyway?

also i made a level

suddenly random sig change

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#33 2018-07-01 17:50:10, last edited by Mait (2018-07-01 17:55:57)

Mait
Member
From: Estonia
Joined: 2015-08-10
Posts: 512

Re: You can support faster development of EE and the Reboot!

Very big picture

me rn

As i need to contribute to this thread, i wanna say that asking for ratings is ok, aslong as we see the computer at the end WITH a paper saying byte[].


Mait.jpg
Let's get to 5000.

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#34 2018-07-01 18:16:33, last edited by hummerz5 (2018-07-01 18:52:18)

hummerz5
Member
From: wait I'm not a secret mod huh
Joined: 2015-08-10
Posts: 5,795

Re: You can support faster development of EE and the Reboot!

Somewhat along what tomahawk says, this action does seem to be a bit below admin expectations. But, aside from basically falsifying part of the average to do better in a contest, I don't really see anything reprehensible.

So in short, I'm touting the "well it's not awful, but it's something we didn't think you would do" sort of idea.

edit *along

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#35 2018-07-01 18:18:45, last edited by Jet (2018-07-01 18:25:03)

Jet
Wiki Mod (Formerly zyhrllos)
Joined: 2015-11-08
Posts: 2,023

Re: You can support faster development of EE and the Reboot!

hummerz5 wrote:

below admin expectations.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA WHAT A JOKE

ok now to actually add to the topic

i would be fine with doing this if bytearray wasnt the sole developer working on this rn tbh. but if he doesnt even have a new computer yet and his computer would only come a few more before the promised closed beta then we're kinda ****

i know it's the ee tradition to push back things because they dont get done on time but i am starting to lose hope (we havent gotten a single dev update on this reboot since it was announced, anything else was just ideas or promises that of course cant come into fruition yet)


haha... woot!! >:)

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#36 2018-07-01 18:44:41

Luka504
Member
From: Serbia,probs never heard of it
Joined: 2015-02-19
Posts: 2,442

Re: You can support faster development of EE and the Reboot!

Xenonetix wrote:

If you had voted it 5, and then wanted to change it to 3. Of course you wouldn't change it from 3 after July 3rd if that's your feeling on it. Please don't be facetious over a clearly innocuous statement.

Unless the game changed on a dime to become a game worthy of 5 stars, I won't give it that. It doesn't deserve it.

Xenonetix wrote:

They're both types of fruit. There is no problem at all with making such a comparison. I prefer apple juice over orange juice. Comparisons are easily made, so please don't demand that I don't make comparisons over things which clearly have traits in common.

... And that's where their similarities end. Sure, you can say that they are both fruit, but there's no doubt that they are radically different.

Xenonetix wrote:

Yes, which is his right to do.

Then it's my right to criticize him for doing it.

Xenonetix wrote:

Not sure about this "good chunk" of people. The average rating is still a reasonable representation of the game's actual rating, considering it's had almost 12,000 plays in just 11 days. All Josh is doing is asking a few people to help him get his rating up by about 0.05 of a rating mark to help his chances. He's not encouraging people to make multiple accounts to "manipulate" the results, but asking a potential 200 or so people to make a small amount of difference to potentially moving him up one place in the standings for a little more monetary support. The majority of people voting for the game are voting it above 3 stars.
In the grand scheme of things, we're realists around here, and we know, sadly, that Josh will not win the top prize of $1,750, but that doesn't change the fact that he has the chance to, and if this push makes the difference between him winning $0 and $250, or the difference between winning $250 and $400, it will have been worth it.
Armor Games even states on its sponsorship site that it should have given Josh a sponsorship deal of $1,000 to $5,000, and then they completely went against their word by only giving him $350, and even that he had to fight for to be higher than $300. He "deserves" at least $650 more than he has received.

If your game has an average rating that's below 4.0 then it's clear as day that a lot of people gave 3 stars or less on the game. It's just basic math. You cannot go below 4.0 if the only ratings you get are 4's and 5's. You also can't go below an average of 4.0 if you only have a few 3's mixed with a ton of 4's and 5's.
Again - His game doesn't deserve that money. It's clearly not that good if a chunk of people have to rate it below 4.
And the armor games deal - You don't get a free pass to do scummy **** just because something bad happened to you in the past.

Xenonetix wrote:

I feel like you have a naive and potentially closed-minded view of the mobile game market. There are plenty of games out there which encourage people to give 5 star reviews. "Enjoying our game? Rate it 4 stars or higher to receive this exclusive in-game item!" "Like us on Facebook to receive a chance of winning this item!" - Happens a lot, and worse than begging, it's effectively blackmail. Not only that, have you ever clicked through on an ad which pops up with a visual of the game having 4-5 stars? There are plenty of times when you click through only for the actual review to be 2-3 stars, so the games are false-advertising, but get away with it because legally they can claim that a certain portion of people voted it 4-5 stars.

I've literally never run into this issue. Every game I played that asked for ratings just asked me to rate it whatever I wanted and write a review. And I pretty much always oblige since they want to hear my thoughts. Literally no game that I've played asked me to just give it 5 stars. And even if you run into this issue, shouldn't that raise a few alarm bells that the game you're playing could be a game that might try to extort you in the future?
And if you notice that a game is lying about its rating, shouldn't that be a massive red flag to not download it?

Xenonetix wrote:

Again, he's asking politely for you to give it a star rating to support him for free. You're free to play the game if you wish, but if you don't have time to play the game, it's really not unreasonable to ask someone to quickly give the game a 5 star rating, and then return to the game a few days later to play it properly and give it whatever rating you feel it actually deserves.

Again, I won't do that. This game doesn't deserve it.

Xenonetix wrote:

As you're clearly so intent on taking everything people say so literally, I feel it's only fair to do the same for you.

This is an outright paradoxical contradictory statement. You are not "all for supporting Byte and the game whenever [you] can", and you are literally against supporting Byte and the game in this situation where you can support the game (for free), and not only actively choose not to do so, but are trying to get other people not to as well.

Please don't make statements which clearly can't possibly make sense when putting your point across. Don't compare oranges to apples here.

I understand you're trying to be savage or something so you can be hip with the kiddos, but this adds nothing to your argument.

Xenonetix wrote:

It does? How? Are you planning on selling your account to the highest bidder for profit?

Oh, well I doooon't know. Maybe if I had the contest prizes I would be more motivated to work on my worlds or something. Maybe? It's certainly going to help. Maybe if you gave me more contest items there would be a better chance of me making worlds faster.

Xenonetix wrote:

He's not. He's checked the rules thoroughly, and there's nothing against him asking people to give him 5 stars. The risk would be if he suggested people do make multiple accounts to adjust the scores, but if there's just one vote from each person, there's no problem at all with him doing it.

Citation needed.

Xenonetix wrote:

I don't even have a problem with you rating the game 3 stars if that's what you feel it "deserves", but I do have a problem with you suggesting other people who want to support one of our most valued developers on Everybody Edits for FREE shouldn't do so.

Then I have a problem with one of your most valued developers doing stuff like this.


How long will it take me to get banned again?
Place your bets right here.

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#37 2018-07-01 18:48:34

TaskManager
Formerly maxi123
From: i really should update this
Joined: 2015-03-01
Posts: 7,711

Re: You can support faster development of EE and the Reboot!

holy **** luka do you really have nothing better to do with your life


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#38 2018-07-01 18:54:24

HeyNK
Member
Joined: 2017-04-07
Posts: 1,318

Re: You can support faster development of EE and the Reboot!

if I rate 1 will it prevent the development of EE?

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#39 2018-07-01 18:54:52

Luka504
Member
From: Serbia,probs never heard of it
Joined: 2015-02-19
Posts: 2,442

Re: You can support faster development of EE and the Reboot!

TaskManager wrote:

holy **** luka do you really have nothing better to do with your life

It's summer vacation and I have nothing to do.
So yea that's why I'm here.


How long will it take me to get banned again?
Place your bets right here.

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#40 2018-07-01 19:15:15, last edited by ByteArray (2018-07-01 19:15:54)

ByteArray
Dev Team (Formerly TechnoWolf99)
From: United States
Joined: 2015-02-17
Posts: 114

Re: You can support faster development of EE and the Reboot!

I actually agree that you should rate the game based on what you think it deserves. I just wanted to describe how the outcome of the contest could have a very positive impact on Everybody Edits.

I understand that this is kind of a weird situation, though, and I wasn't really sure what to do about it myself. But I felt like asking for help was a decent option.

If Rotate doesn't place well in the contest, development on Everybody Edits will still continue as usual. A new computer would just speed up the process and reduce frustration from constant slowdowns. //forums.everybodyedits.com/img/smilies/smile


— Joshua Stone (aka ByteArray), lead developer of Everybody Edits & EE Universe. —

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#41 2018-07-01 19:19:31

Enurp
Formerly ThuggishPrune
From: Ohio
Joined: 2015-06-20
Posts: 455

Re: You can support faster development of EE and the Reboot!

ByteArray wrote:

I actually agree that you should write in the game based on what you think it deserves. I just wanted to describe how the outcome of the contest could have a very positive impact on Everybody Edits.

Then you should've had your original post be "Hey, I'm in this running for this contest. If you want to help out please do so!". Not have all that fluff about how it'll help you work on Everybody Edits.

Using your position as EE staff to win an unrelated contest to promise a faster reboot is a scummy move.

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#42 2018-07-01 19:45:28

Trytu
Member
From: Poland
Joined: 2017-12-10
Posts: 580

Re: You can support faster development of EE and the Reboot!

Now do a Everybodyedits map with rotate game xD


4puJMaQ.png
Thanks to Nikko99 for signature
https: //media.discordapp.net/attachments/402174325349941249/482121641745186816/KHiX2DEFewAAAABJRU5ErkJggg.png
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#43 2018-07-01 19:55:15

capasha
Member
Joined: 2015-02-21
Posts: 3,778

Re: You can support faster development of EE and the Reboot!

Luka504 wrote:

He decided to ask his fans to rate his game 5 stars just so he can have a better chance of winning

Xenonetix wrote:

Yes, which is his right to do. I feel like you misunderstand the definition of the word "fans". The comparison stands - Millions of people ask their fans for their support on their projects daily.

He ask for 5 stars which mean people don't need to play his game. He just want to win and get money. This is not what I call legit.
It would be better if he said, if someone could play his game and give a vote how they like the game. No he want to win and get money so he can put more time on EE development.
People that have fans doesn't vote 5 stars because someone say so. If they do that they are brainwashed.

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#44 2018-07-01 20:19:56

Xenonetix
EE Owner (Formerly Mega Lamb)
From: Working on EEU
Joined: 2015-03-07
Posts: 835
Website

Re: You can support faster development of EE and the Reboot!

capasha wrote:

He want to win and get money so he can put more time on EE development.

I don't see that as a bad thing. //forums.everybodyedits.com/img/smilies/tongue


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#45 2018-07-01 20:25:22

capasha
Member
Joined: 2015-02-21
Posts: 3,778

Re: You can support faster development of EE and the Reboot!

Xenonetix wrote:
capasha wrote:

He want to win and get money so he can put more time on EE development.

I don't see that as a bad thing. //forums.everybodyedits.com/img/smilies/tongue

It's only you that can't see that. This is cheating.

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#46 2018-07-01 21:08:46

ByteArray
Dev Team (Formerly TechnoWolf99)
From: United States
Joined: 2015-02-17
Posts: 114

Re: You can support faster development of EE and the Reboot!

Alright guys, I've reworded the post to better explain what I intended to say from the beginning. I suppose I probably should have spent a little more time writing it initially, rather than rushing it out last night. Ah well, sorry for the drama it seemed to have caused! //forums.everybodyedits.com/img/smilies/tongue


— Joshua Stone (aka ByteArray), lead developer of Everybody Edits & EE Universe. —

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#47 2018-07-01 21:21:02

Kira
Guest

Re: You can support faster development of EE and the Reboot!

Amazing job with this topic Bytearray, you have proven yourself to be the godfather of this small community, the hero of us, little pathetic swins, the man of the hour, the conqueror. You are the man we needed and you deserve it. Voting 5? What a joke. I have recruited Feezelbobs to rate 10 on your amazingly wonderfully marvelous project because YOU deserve every single bit of the greatness that is your work. Do not listen to those toxic and irrelevant homo sapiens, one breach for drama, they take it. Remember at all times that YOU are the leader of us, and I sincerely believe that you will lead the all of us, to the greatest victory.

#48 2018-07-01 22:12:38

Trytu
Member
From: Poland
Joined: 2017-12-10
Posts: 580

Re: You can support faster development of EE and the Reboot!

Latif wrote:

Rated 5 stars and made a level

Code

I did a level too

code

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Thanks to Nikko99 for signature
https: //media.discordapp.net/attachments/402174325349941249/482121641745186816/KHiX2DEFewAAAABJRU5ErkJggg.png
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#49 2018-07-01 22:47:15

Tomahawk
Forum Mod
From: BiH
Joined: 2015-02-18
Posts: 2,083

Re: You can support faster development of EE and the Reboot!

Mary had a little lamb,
its fleece was white as snow.

But not this Lamb...


One bot to rule them all, one bot to find them. One bot to bring them all... and with this cliché blind them.

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#50 2018-07-01 22:53:27

N1KF
Wiki Mod
Joined: 2015-02-15
Posts: 9,999

Re: You can support faster development of EE and the Reboot!

You are asking us to vote five stars whether or not we like the game. This is not truthful. I know what it's like to want this game to succeed, but I will not choose to support it in this way.


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