Hey can we stop misusing trigger warnings?

N1KF · 2017-11-15 06:30:36

Different55 wrote:

I don't particularly find your reasons to be compelling enough to change it, either.

I think the debate is generally in my favor since I'm taking the "we should do something about this" stance while most others are just taking the "this doesn't really matter" stance. Either way, if you aren't compelled enough change a few lines of source code, I could do the work with your approval.

Whatever the tag is named, it's still functionally a trigger warning and people would use it the same way they do now.

Do you have anythings to back that up? Like I said, I think that seeing "TRIGGER" in the BBCode list just temps your everyday forum user feeling a bit spicy into using it. Meanwhile, "content warning" sounds more bland and will probably be misused less.

Even if the usage might not change much (though I think it would), I really have to question you saying it wouldn't change at all. Neither of us have any evidence beyond speculation, but I think my "this might help" speculation is more plausible and less extreme than your "this won't help" speculation.

Slapping a new name on it with less baggage will only result in jokes about people being triggered by the trigger tag, it won't solve anything.

Those jokes would probably end in a few days or weeks. After all, I'm the only user here who seems to care much about what the trigger warning tag is called.

Different55 · 2017-11-15 06:46:20

N1KF wrote:

Either way, if you aren't compelled enough change a few lines of source code, I could do the work with your approval.

Sure you can change the tag name with just a few edits to a few lines, but what are you going to do with every single post that used the old tags though? Let them start showing up as [rawbbcode][/rawbbcode]? Editing the database to scrub every instance of the trigger warning bbcode and replace it with any replacement tag is a lot more involved than replacing one word over a few lines of code.

Do we leave the old tag in but remove its button and create a new tag? People will just keep using the old one.

Do we leave the old tag, remove its button, prevent it from being used but allow it to render properly and create a new tag? At this point you've can safely say you've gone too far, but what do we do if someone edits an old post with a trigger warning? They'd either have to convert their tag to the new one and potentially lose meaning or just not edit their post at all because of a dumb forum restriction that was put in place for what reason?

N1KF wrote:

Do you have anythings to back that up?

Yes. The trigger warning tag vanishes if the user has that turned off in their settings. The content warning would do the same. That's what makes the trigger warning tag a trigger warning tag, slapping a new name on it won't change the fact that its purpose is to hide content from those who would rather not see it.

N1KF · 2017-11-15 07:45:20

Different55 wrote:

Do we leave the old tag, remove its button, prevent it from being used but allow it to render properly and create a new tag? At this point you've can safely say you've gone too far, but what do we do if someone edits an old post with a trigger warning?

That's what I considered. When you put it that way, yeah, it does sound like some trouble. However, I think that's a good reason to look into it instead of shrugging it off like some users have done.

edit: Perhaps we could change big "TRIGGER WARNING" label to render as just "Content warning". We could also have a new content warning BBCode be forced in new posts, but not in edits. This would have the advantage of pushing people into changing, but not the disadvantage of inconveniencing those who are just editing their old posts.

They'd either have to convert their tag to the new one and potentially lose meaning or just not edit their post at all because of a dumb forum restriction that was put in place for what reason?

There isn't much meaning or purpose from the trigger warning tag in itself anyway since it's halfway pointless. If people misusing trigger warnings results in their posts making slightly less sense, I'm okay with that, since their misuse of forum features in itself doesn't make sense.

slapping a new name on it won't change the fact that its purpose is to hide content from those who would rather not see it.

Half of the time it's used as a spoiler tag or as a joke. While it might not stop the former of the two, I think it would discourage people from using it as a joke because they have to type in the new BBCode. I feel like the term "trigger warning" is one of those things that people use in an rebellious, "I don't care" sort of attitude that's considered been considered cool on the Internet for a while. I don't think you should encourage that, since that's probably the biggest reason this forum is stinking. "Content warning" doesn't have the same problem.

--

Why I'm against trigger warning misuse

There is a postmodern attitude popular on the Internet that involves jokingly saying dark, rebellious, or insensitive things, which not only is rude towards certain people (whether or not they're around to be offended), but encourages people to be less friendly and sincere.

This is why Different fell into the trap and named the trigger warning BBCode what it is, and it's why people are so quick to use it, even in times where it isn't relevant, resulting in "trigger warnings" being far less meaningful than they could be.

I propose we find a way to work on both of these problems by doing something about the trigger warning misuse.

do not double post -hz5

N1KF · 2017-11-21 03:54:44

So, does anybody have any better ideas besides renaming the trigger warning BBCode? Progress on this is going kind of slowly.

Different55 · 2017-12-14 14:54:07

"content warning" has just as much of its own baggage (opposite baggage, but still baggage) to work out. Replacing one loaded word with another won't help anything. If we're going to change it, why not something actually neutral related to its actual function like "censor" or something?

N1KF wrote:

There isn't much meaning or purpose from the trigger warning tag in itself anyway since it's halfway pointless. If people misusing trigger warnings results in their posts making slightly less sense, I'm okay with that, since their misuse of forum features in itself doesn't make sense.

You might be okay with it but you're hardly the only person affected by all this.

N1KF

N1KF · 2017-12-14 18:23:15

Different55 wrote:

If we're going to change it, why not something actually neutral related to its actual function like "censor" or something?

That's a good idea. I think that would work especially well since censor is more easily understandable than something like content or warning in the BBCode list.

You might be okay with it but you're hardly the only person affected by all this.

This topic has thousands of views and only you so far have openly disagreed with my main proposals to change the BBCode. I feel like if people minded we'd be getting a lot more people speaking up or wooting our posts.

Different55 · 2017-12-14 18:27:28

N1KF wrote:

Different55 wrote:
If we're going to change it, why not something actually neutral related to its actual function like "censor" or something?
That's a good idea. I think that would work especially well since censor is more easily understandable than something like content or warning in the BBCode list.
You might be okay with it but you're hardly the only person affected by all this.
This topic has thousands of views and only you so far have openly disagreed with my main proposals to change the BBCode. I feel like if people minded we'd be getting a lot more people speaking up or wooting our posts.

Everyone else got tired of replying to you. I got tired of replying to you. Dragging things out to the point everyone wishes they were dead != agreement.

Xfrogman43, Slabdrill, mrjawapa

N1KF · 2017-12-14 18:31:35

I agree with you; nobody is openly agreeing with me. However, nobody is openly disagreeing with you either, which means that my proposal shouldn't harm the forum.

(That was mildly confusing.)

Harmonious · 2017-12-14 18:50:48

N1KF, you seem to not realize that literally nobody but you has an issue with the term "triggered" being used for its slang definition

People with PTSD get triggered by their triggers, not the word "trigger" (unless their PTSD somehow stems from that word, in which case we might as well just ban language, since that'd be possible for any word)

N1KF · 2017-12-14 19:05:45

jkdrip wrote:

N1KF, you seem to not realize that literally nobody but you has an issue with the term "triggered" being used for its slang definition

I realized that much earlier in the topic. Looking back, perhaps I didn't make that clear enough.

People with PTSD get triggered by their triggers, not the word "trigger" (unless their PTSD somehow stems from that word, in which case we might as well just ban language, since that'd be possible for any word)

I agree.

Different55 wrote:

Everyone else got tired of replying to you. I got tired of replying to you. Dragging things out to the point everyone wishes they were dead != agreement.

Different, I'm not dragging this out—all I'm doing is responding to all of the concerns people have with the occasional gravedig. I agree that my original suggestion was kind of vague and dangerous, but with your help I've polished this up with a suggestion that I can see no problems with other than "people will be mildly confused for a few minutes". If you look back at the second half of post #53 (which hasn't been responded to yet) you can see I have two important reasons why I made this proposal that affect the forum.

I can't do anything about this right now, but we can help each other out. If you gave me access to a trigger warning source code, this would give me a good excuse to learn some web programming so I can implement my suggestion as mentioned earlier:

N1KF wrote:

We could also have a new content warning BBCode be forced in new posts, but not in edits. This would have the advantage of pushing people into changing, but not the disadvantage of inconveniencing those who are just editing their old posts.

As a forum admin willing to implement risky new features, I really feel like this is the type of thing you would accept. It's your choice, and you're open to accept my offer whenever you feel like it.

John · 2017-12-14 19:50:15

I don't have an issue with it - I feel it would be idiotic to change it as old posts would break.

HeyNK · 2017-12-14 20:44:54

▼CONTENT WARNING

N1KF · 2017-12-14 21:24:00

Emalton wrote:

I don't have an issue with it - I feel it would be idiotic to change it as old posts would break.

I addressed this already in post #53.

Different55 · 2017-12-15 01:42:25

N1KF wrote:

I agree with you; nobody is openly agreeing with me. However, nobody is openly disagreeing with you either, which means that my proposal shouldn't harm the forum.
(That was mildly confusing.)

The entire first page still exists.

wrt #53

One BBCode is not going to change a single thing on the forums, and making that change is not an insignificant amount of effort for no clear benefit.

The phrase trigger warning itself has already lost all meaning. Any meaning it was had has been stuffed, with a little extra, into content warning now. Changing the name of the BBCode will not bring back "trigger warning" from the dead and it's not clear what harm leaving it does.

Basically the answer to why this isn't being done is because it seems like you're the only person with any interest in the change at all.

N1KF · 2017-12-15 07:28:12

Different55 wrote:

The entire first page still exists.

As far as I can tell most of those posts are addressing points I'm not making. If there are any particular points I haven't responded to I'd be willing to do so, but for now I'll respond to current posts.

My post got kind of long so feel free to just respond to the bold text with everything else serving as context.

One BBCode is not going to change a single thing on the forums, and making that change is not an insignificant amount of effort for no clear benefit.

Maybe. This community is pretty small, to the point that a single person can ignite some sort of movement. You're a forum admin, so you're one of the top dogs of the community. Simple words or actions from a person can determine how another person feels. Add all those things together and I think you're really underestimating your power!

Personally, I have hope that my proposals will help the community at least a little bit with its rebellious teen problems as mentioned in post #53:

N1KF wrote:

There is a postmodern attitude popular on the Internet that involves jokingly saying dark, rebellious, or insensitive things, which not only is rude towards certain people (whether or not they're around to be offended), but encourages people to be less friendly and sincere.

You're underestimating your power to help this community.

Different55 wrote:

The phrase trigger warning itself has already lost all meaning. Any meaning it was had has been stuffed, with a little extra, into content warning now.

Why would you choose a meaningless term for a BBCode tag?

Changing the name of the BBCode will not bring back "trigger warning" from the dead and it's not clear what harm leaving it does.

I just don't think it's a good idea to have loaded terms like that regularly used on the forum. Imagine if we had a politicallyincorrect or a microaggression tag. It seems silly, right? That's how I feel about the trigger warning tag. We're not a meme forum or a social issues forum; we're a web game forum.

"Trigger warning" is an unnecessarily loaded term not suited for this forum.

One BBCode is not going to change a single thing on the forums, and making that change is not an insignificant amount of effort for no clear benefit.

If you let me do the programming then the amount of effort on your side is pretty insignificant. A less significant amount of effort than the effort it takes to respond to all my points, at least!

You're free to accept my help at any time...

Basically the answer to why this isn't being done is because it seems like you're the only person with any interest in the change at all.

That's a good answer. As long as I don't change my mind and you're open to considering my opinions then I'll be here speaking up.

Maybe you're right about of this. Maybe it won't change anything, and maybe there's no good reason to even try. However, we don't need that mouseover text. Why not go with something like "Hide content that may offend other people"? I find that a lot more helpful than the current description which is confusing unless you're up-to-date with two modern buzzwords.

All I ask of you is to please get some feedback from the forum before you create any other oddly named BBCode tags.

...and there are easy ways to help the problem yourself if you don't want my help.

Anatoly · 2017-12-15 13:36:12

Hey can we stop bumping useless topics?

If you don’t want triggers to be like this, be lazy and don’t open them.

N1KF · 2017-12-15 18:20:26

AnatolyEE wrote:

Hey can we stop bumping useless topics?
If you don’t want triggers to be like this, be lazy and don’t open them.

Ignoring a problem doesn't make it go away.

hummerz5 · 2017-12-15 18:24:10

N1KF wrote:

AnatolyEE wrote:
Hey can we stop bumping useless topics?
If you don’t want triggers to be like this, be lazy and don’t open them.
Ignoring a problem doesn't make it go away.

well insofar it appears the only person considering it a problem is you. I can't say the masses are always right, but if you're making an argument for the benefit of the masses and they disagree then in this case they are right.

N1KF

Different55 · 2017-12-15 18:57:57

N1KF wrote:

As far as I can tell most of those posts are addressing points I'm not making. If there are any particular points I haven't responded to I'd be willing to do so, but for now I'll respond to current posts.

They don't need to, do they? The point I was trying to make is that nobody seems to agree that this is something that needs to be changed.

N1KF wrote:

You're underestimating your power to help this community.

I'd like to think I'm pretty well I'm aware of the ability I have to impact the community. I think you might be overestimating the power of changing 2 BBCode tags tho.

N1KF wrote:

Why would you choose a meaningless term for a BBCode tag?

It's lost all of its *original meaning.

N1KF wrote:

If you let me do the programming then the amount of effort on your side is pretty insignificant. A less significant amount of effort than the effort it takes to respond to all my points, at least!
You're free to accept my help at any time...

No offense to you, but letting someone who's never done any sort of coding before play around in the guts of the forums is not an acceptable solution. I can easily do it myself, I just don't reason to currently.

N1KF wrote:

Maybe you're right about of this. Maybe it won't change anything, and maybe there's no good reason to even try. However, we don't need that mouseover text. Why not go with something like "Hide content that may offend other people"?

Fair. Changed.

N1KF

Harmonious · 2017-12-15 19:02:27

Petition to stop replying to this non-issue

mrjawapa, Xfrogman43

N1KF · 2017-12-15 19:06:17

Okay, I'm satisfied with all of those responses. Thank you for listening to all of my concerns. The only thing I still want a response to is this:

N1KF wrote:

All I ask of you is to please get some feedback from the forum before you create any other oddly named BBCode tags.

Xfrogman43 · 2017-12-15 19:09:50

no **** off

mrjawapa

N1KF · 2017-12-15 19:21:25

Xfrogman43 wrote:

no **** off

Okey-dokey mr. croaky!

Anatoly · 2017-12-15 20:00:27

N1KF wrote:

Okay, I'm satisfied with all of those responses. Thank you for listening to all of my concerns. The only thing I still want a response to is this:
N1KF wrote:
All I ask of you is to please get some feedback from the forum before you create any other oddly named BBCode tags.

What do you mean?

LukeM · 2017-12-15 21:20:57

AnatolyEE wrote:

N1KF wrote:
Okay, I'm satisfied with all of those responses. Thank you for listening to all of my concerns. The only thing I still want a response to is this:
N1KF wrote:
All I ask of you is to please get some feedback from the forum before you create any other oddly named BBCode tags.
What do you mean?

Different should ask people before giving things meme-type names, or names that dont make sense

Also I agree with N1KF but have been sort of on holiday so havent been checking the forums, purely because it isnt an explanatory name, which means people dont seem to understand what it does / is for, so use it for things that should go in spoilers

N1KF

Official Everybody Edits Forums

#51 2017-11-15 06:30:36

Re: Hey can we stop misusing trigger warnings?

#52 2017-11-15 06:46:20, last edited by Different55 (2017-11-15 06:47:30)

Re: Hey can we stop misusing trigger warnings?

#53 2017-11-15 07:45:20, last edited by hummerz5 (2017-11-21 04:25:03)

Re: Hey can we stop misusing trigger warnings?

Why I'm against trigger warning misuse

#54 2017-11-21 03:54:44

Re: Hey can we stop misusing trigger warnings?

#55 2017-12-14 14:54:07

Re: Hey can we stop misusing trigger warnings?

#56 2017-12-14 18:23:15

Re: Hey can we stop misusing trigger warnings?

#57 2017-12-14 18:27:28

Re: Hey can we stop misusing trigger warnings?

#58 2017-12-14 18:31:35, last edited by N1KF (2017-12-14 18:32:50)

Re: Hey can we stop misusing trigger warnings?

#59 2017-12-14 18:50:48

Re: Hey can we stop misusing trigger warnings?

#60 2017-12-14 19:05:45

Re: Hey can we stop misusing trigger warnings?

#61 2017-12-14 19:50:15

Re: Hey can we stop misusing trigger warnings?

#62 2017-12-14 20:44:54

Re: Hey can we stop misusing trigger warnings?

#63 2017-12-14 21:24:00

Re: Hey can we stop misusing trigger warnings?

#64 2017-12-15 01:42:25

Re: Hey can we stop misusing trigger warnings?

#65 2017-12-15 07:28:12

Re: Hey can we stop misusing trigger warnings?

#66 2017-12-15 13:36:12

Re: Hey can we stop misusing trigger warnings?

#67 2017-12-15 18:20:26

Re: Hey can we stop misusing trigger warnings?

#68 2017-12-15 18:24:10

Re: Hey can we stop misusing trigger warnings?

#69 2017-12-15 18:57:57

Re: Hey can we stop misusing trigger warnings?

#70 2017-12-15 19:02:27

Re: Hey can we stop misusing trigger warnings?

#71 2017-12-15 19:06:17

Re: Hey can we stop misusing trigger warnings?

#72 2017-12-15 19:09:50

Re: Hey can we stop misusing trigger warnings?

#73 2017-12-15 19:21:25

Re: Hey can we stop misusing trigger warnings?

#74 2017-12-15 20:00:27

Re: Hey can we stop misusing trigger warnings?

#75 2017-12-15 21:20:57

Re: Hey can we stop misusing trigger warnings?

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