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Tomahawk

Forum Mod

From: UK

Joined: 2015-02-18

Posts: 2,850

Re: Farewell

I really don't understand what you're saying.So by "people ganging up" I think you mean the community and by "others" you mean staff?Well in that case their pressure is not made because of their desire to make drama, its made just because they care about the future of this game.Thus "rationally working out the most beneficial solution to their problems" would be to help the game, which I think a part would do if they were able to.

Some threads start about bad modding, then people join in to form a hate train with the loudest at the front. They call for an instant demod instead of considering other options, and the pressured administration has little leeway or choice in the face of it.

People gang up on each other, I mean.

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Zumza

Member

From: root

Joined: 2015-02-17

Posts: 4,656

Re: Farewell

I really don't understand what you're saying.So by "people ganging up" I think you mean the community and by "others" you mean staff?Well in that case their pressure is not made because of their desire to make drama, its made just because they care about the future of this game.Thus "rationally working out the most beneficial solution to their problems" would be to help the game, which I think a part would do if they were able to.

Some threads start about bad modding, then people join in to form a hate train with the loudest at the front. They call for an instant demod instead of considering other options, and the pressured administration has little leeway or choice in the face of it.

People gang up on each other, I mean.

Thats most likely caused by a lack of proper communication between the staff and the community, I guess.
If we're talking about @Dream, if the staff asked the community first he might not have become a mod from the start.
If we're talking about @Koya, then we're just dealing with people who can't see what they did wrong.

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Everybody edits, but some edit more than others

Koya

Fabulous Member

From: The island with those Brits

Joined: 2015-02-18

Posts: 6,310

Re: Farewell

If we're talking about @Koya, then we're just dealing with people who can't see what they did wrong.

I'm aware that I acted as if this game was some triple A title online multiplayer with a vast community, I went by the rules but that wasn't what this game needed.

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Thank you eleizibeth ^

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Tomahawk

Forum Mod

From: UK

Joined: 2015-02-18

Posts: 2,850

Re: Farewell

If we're talking about @Koya, then we're just dealing with people who can't see what they did wrong.

I'm aware that I acted as if this game was some triple A title online multiplayer with a vast community, I went by the rules but that wasn't what this game needed.

Nuu Koya, no regrets. I fully supported your style of modding - it was consistent, unbiased and properly enforced EE's current ruleset. The nubs who complained were those used to breaking the rules and getting away with it under other mods. If all mods had your style then EE would be a friendlier and nicer community.

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One bot to rule them all, one bot to find them. One bot to bring them all... and with this cliché blind them.

MartenM

Member

From: The Netherlands

Joined: 2016-03-31

Posts: 978

Website

Re: Farewell

Nuu Koya, no regrets. I fully supported your style of modding - it was consistent, unbiased and properly enforced EE's current ruleset. The nubs who complained were those used to breaking the rules and getting away with it under other mods. If all mods had your style then EE would be a friendlier and nicer community.

Banning and silencing only partly solves problems. It won't turn the community into some sort of shiny gem.

Not that I have anything against koya his style of moderating tho

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Ingame: marten22        My steam: MartenM

Zumza

Member

From: root

Joined: 2015-02-17

Posts: 4,656

Re: Farewell

If we're talking about @Koya, then we're just dealing with people who can't see what they did wrong.

I'm aware that I acted as if this game was some triple A title online multiplayer with a vast community, I went by the rules but that wasn't what this game needed.

Still, you're

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Processor

Member

Joined: 2015-02-15

Posts: 2,246

Re: Farewell

I believe that the new administration is by no means capable of influencing the forums unless they somehow pull a "noup" on Diff.

Which reboot are you talking about, loads of people seem to have opinions about a 'reboot' but everyone seems to be talking about different things...

While the so called "reboot" has been the main topic of interest during the change in administration, I see it as a mere excuse that NVD et al. used to kick nou out of the team. It's still a flawed narrative because nou never opposed such an idea in the first place.

Like I described in my first post, there's a lot of tension between the community members as they all wish to be in charge of the game. Nou did things wrong but the lack of constructive feedback is still a sign that NVD didn't have good intentions when he kicked nou.

I'm going to post a conversation in PM here.

During the time NVD was the owner of the game, he used the game's income for his own personal benefit. I'll ignore the (il)legality of this action, and state this did hurt the game (and staff morale). I wouldn't be surprised if the same happened again.

Do you have proof he used it for personal gains? I remember the money going into a PayPal account that was more or less his own. I also remember him saying at one point that EE had made a few thousand dollars. I never thought about that money after the game was transferred to Nou.
I know you said you'd ignore it, but it doesn't sound like something that would be illegal. As the owner of the game, I would expect him to be able to keep all the profits.
Your last point seems like a bit of an accusation. The staff work was all voluntary, and I doubt a few members of the staff cared what was going on with the money. The game certainly wasn't struggling to fund itself. But I can see where that money could have been set aside to help with the current bills of EE.

The legality and the ethics of the situation are separate issues.

Lets tackle the legal side first:

I've heard there were some legal issues with NVD not paying his taxes, but I am not an expert in that field. NVD owned the game more or less, so he had every legal right to do whatever he pleased with the money though.

Ethics now:

Nou never saw a cent of that money, neither did any other programmer in our team or EE itself. (Even the domain transfer fees were paid by brian!) That's not how NVD communicated things to us, I only found out when he refused to provide any information about EE's money when the game was being transferred to nou, we had to pry it out of his hands and he got caught in his own web of lies.

He earned that money with the help of others in the team and while we didn't expect to be paid for the work we did, we surely did not work to finance NVD's life. I felt disappointed when I realized that EE's earnings were used to buy GTA V for his girlfriend (and that's just 50€ of the +2000€ he had earned).

I expected the money to be used to help the game grow, that's all. NVD said he was planning on doing that, he lied to us, that's not cool.

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I have never thought of programming for reputation and honor. What I have in my heart must come out. That is the reason why I code.

Zumza

Member

From: root

Joined: 2015-02-17

Posts: 4,656

Re: Farewell

He earned that money with the help of others in the team and while we didn't expect to be paid for the work we did, we surely did not work to finance NVD's life. I felt disappointed when I realized that EE's earnings were used to buy GTA V for his girlfriend (and that's just 50€ of the +2000€ he had earned).

I expected the money to be used to help the game grow, that's all. NVD said he was planning on doing that, he lied to us, that's not cool.

Well at least I bet he has a cool girlfriend.

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Everybody edits, but some edit more than others

Gosha

Member

From: Russia

Joined: 2015-03-15

Posts: 6,211

Re: Farewell

Nou never saw a cent of that money, neither did any other programmer in our team or EE itself.

Where did they go then?

LukeM

Member

From: England

Joined: 2016-06-03

Posts: 3,009

Website

Re: Farewell

Nou never saw a cent of that money, neither did any other programmer in our team or EE itself.

Where did they go then?

The most logical conclusion is that NVD probably kept it

mrjawapa

Corn Man 🌽

From: Ohio, USA

Joined: 2015-02-15

Posts: 5,840

Website

Re: Farewell

▼Hidden text

During the time NVD was the owner of the game, he used the game's income for his own personal benefit. I'll ignore the (il)legality of this action, and state this did hurt the game (and staff morale). I wouldn't be surprised if the same happened again.

Do you have proof he used it for personal gains? I remember the money going into a PayPal account that was more or less his own. I also remember him saying at one point that EE had made a few thousand dollars. I never thought about that money after the game was transferred to Nou.
I know you said you'd ignore it, but it doesn't sound like something that would be illegal. As the owner of the game, I would expect him to be able to keep all the profits.
Your last point seems like a bit of an accusation. The staff work was all voluntary, and I doubt a few members of the staff cared what was going on with the money. The game certainly wasn't struggling to fund itself. But I can see where that money could have been set aside to help with the current bills of EE.

The legality and the ethics of the situation are separate issues.

Lets tackle the legal side first:

I've heard there were some legal issues with NVD not paying his taxes, but I am not an expert in that field. NVD owned the game more or less, so he had every legal right to do whatever he pleased with the money though.

Ethics now:

Nou never saw a cent of that money, neither did any other programmer in our team or EE itself. (Even the domain transfer fees were paid by brian!) That's not how NVD communicated things to us, I only found out when he refused to provide any information about EE's money when the game was being transferred to nou, we had to pry it out of his hands and he got caught in his own web of lies.

He earned that money with the help of others in the team and while we didn't expect to be paid for the work we did, we surely did not work to finance NVD's life. I felt disappointed when I realized that EE's earnings were used to buy GTA V for his girlfriend (and that's just 50€ of the +2000€ he had earned).

I expected the money to be used to help the game grow, that's all. NVD said he was planning on doing that, he lied to us, that's not cool.

I did say this. Not that it's really needed for me to confirm it.

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Discord: jawp#5123

Bimps

Member

Joined: 2015-02-08

Posts: 5,067

Re: Farewell

so nvd is a ****?

LukeM

Member

From: England

Joined: 2016-06-03

Posts: 3,009

Website

Re: Farewell

Bimps: *was
People make mistakes, I'm sure that he probably learned from his mistakes, and (hopefully) won't make them again

Bimps

Member

Joined: 2015-02-08

Posts: 5,067

Re: Farewell

Bimps: *was
People make mistakes, I'm sure that he probably learned from his mistakes, and (hopefully) won't make them again

you really think nvd not giving people money that they should have gotten is a mistake?

LukeM

Member

From: England

Joined: 2016-06-03

Posts: 3,009

Website

Re: Farewell

Bimps: *was
People make mistakes, I'm sure that he probably learned from his mistakes, and (hopefully) won't make them again

you really think nvd not giving people money that they should have gotten is a mistake?

A mistake as in something you regret later, hopefully because he realises it was wrong, not just because he was found out

Bimps

Member

Joined: 2015-02-08

Posts: 5,067

Re: Farewell

Bimps: *was
People make mistakes, I'm sure that he probably learned from his mistakes, and (hopefully) won't make them again

you really think nvd not giving people money that they should have gotten is a mistake?

A mistake as in something you regret later, hopefully because he realises it was wrong, not just because he was found out

well idk how everyone else feels but this just makes me see ee's current state as just a way to squeeze more money out. not a passion project. so that kind of sucks

Koya

Fabulous Member

From: The island with those Brits

Joined: 2015-02-18

Posts: 6,310

Re: Farewell

Bimps: *was
People make mistakes, I'm sure that he probably learned from his mistakes, and (hopefully) won't make them again

you really think nvd not giving people money that they should have gotten is a mistake?

A mistake as in something you regret later, hopefully because he realises it was wrong, not just because he was found out

well idk how everyone else feels but this just makes me see ee's current state as just a way to squeeze more money out. not a passion project. so that kind of sucks

Normally if people work they get paid, I don't see anything wrong with it.

I do not see this game just being squeezed for money - it's going to go in the right direction and I see a future in EE. NVD should have been in charge before.

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Thank you eleizibeth ^

I stack my signatures rather than delete them so I don't lose them

Bimps

Member

Joined: 2015-02-08

Posts: 5,067

Re: Farewell

Bimps: *was
People make mistakes, I'm sure that he probably learned from his mistakes, and (hopefully) won't make them again

you really think nvd not giving people money that they should have gotten is a mistake?

A mistake as in something you regret later, hopefully because he realises it was wrong, not just because he was found out

well idk how everyone else feels but this just makes me see ee's current state as just a way to squeeze more money out. not a passion project. so that kind of sucks

Normally if people work they get paid, I don't see anything wrong with it.

I do not see this game just being squeezed for money - it's going to go in the right direction and I see a future in EE. NVD should have been in charge before.

where's unity

dcomet

Member

From: Dipstick Kingdom

Joined: 2016-11-20

Posts: 788

Re: Farewell

you really think nvd not giving people money that they should have gotten is a mistake?

A mistake as in something you regret later, hopefully because he realises it was wrong, not just because he was found out

well idk how everyone else feels but this just makes me see ee's current state as just a way to squeeze more money out. not a passion project. so that kind of sucks

Normally if people work they get paid, I don't see anything wrong with it.

I do not see this game just being squeezed for money - it's going to go in the right direction and I see a future in EE. NVD should have been in charge before.

where's unity

the simplest question with the most complex answer

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Processor

Member

Joined: 2015-02-15

Posts: 2,246

Re: Farewell

People make mistakes, I'm sure that he probably learned from his mistakes, and (hopefully) won't make them again

I haven't yet received an apology from NVD for lying about how the game money was going to be used.

I do not see this game just being squeezed for money - it's going to go in the right direction and I see a future in EE. NVD should have been in charge before.

NVD used to be in charge and he did squeeze the game for money (see: all those beta / builders club discounts). I expect more discounts to appear in the upcoming months.

where's unity

I assume not being paid and knowing that your work is going to finance NVD's private expenses isn't going to accelerate the project now. Add the fact that the current developer team is stubborn enough to restart the whole project and you are looking at an ETA of at least one year.

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I have never thought of programming for reputation and honor. What I have in my heart must come out. That is the reason why I code.

mrjawapa

Corn Man 🌽

From: Ohio, USA

Joined: 2015-02-15

Posts: 5,840

Website

Re: Farewell

On the topic of Unity, what do you know about the PlayerIO and HTML5?

I'm pretty sure PlayerIO doesn't support HTML5, meaning unity couldn't be ported to be played in the browser.

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Discord: jawp#5123

LukeM

Member

From: England

Joined: 2016-06-03

Posts: 3,009

Website

Re: Farewell

On the topic of Unity, what do you know about the PlayerIO and HTML5?

I'm pretty sure PlayerIO doesn't support HTML5, meaning unity couldn't be ported to be played in the browser.

I don't think it is supported now, but think they are working on it
It does seem to be quite low down their list of priorities though, I would have thought with so many games moving to JavaScript that the PlayerIO people would have done it a long time ago...
If not, I guess there is always socket.io, which seems very similar, so the game could probably be ported over fairly easily
Then again, I think the whole shop is based on PlayerIO, so maybe not

Processor

Member

Joined: 2015-02-15

Posts: 2,246

Re: Farewell

On the topic of Unity, what do you know about the PlayerIO and HTML5?

I'm pretty sure PlayerIO doesn't support HTML5, meaning unity couldn't be ported to be played in the browser.

It's surely possible to work around it, but the exact implementation is something the new development team will have to decide on, so you better ask them.

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I have never thought of programming for reputation and honor. What I have in my heart must come out. That is the reason why I code.

Zumza

Member

From: root

Joined: 2015-02-17

Posts: 4,656

Re: Farewell

well idk how everyone else feels but this just makes me see ee's current state as just a way to squeeze more money out. not a passion project. so that kind of sucks

I do not see this game just being squeezed for money - it's going to go in the right direction and I see a future in EE. NVD should have been in charge before.

This game is not squeezed for money indeed. Its squeezed for love and the future of EE lays in an engagement ring.

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Mieaz

Member

Joined: 2016-10-14

Posts: 499

Re: Farewell

Who next ? Toop ? ...

I don't have any intentions of leaving anytime soon, not only do I actually find some enjoyment in EE still, I have a fairly long list of ideas and fixes that I would like to see through.

lol nice joke

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ee & eeforums gibs me depression